[krove]

Sorry if this seems like a repeat thread, but I really wanted some input as to some of the latest (and newly released) digital still cameras on the market.

I really want to get one (in the $600-1000 range), but after reviewing the models and holding some of them in the store, here are some of my impressions:

Nikon 4500: slow lens, pop-up flash gets in my way of holding it, only 4x zoom, no AF assist lamp (for focusing in low-light), shutter-release lag is fairly high for the price range, optical view finder is somewhat cheesy. This was my original pick, but now I'm not so sure after holding it and using it. It takes great pictures, but the overall usability just doesn't seem to justify a $699 retail price.

Nikon 5700: some purple fringing noticable in certain shots, great feel when I hold it, no AF assist lamp, 8x zoom!, 5 MP, electronic view finder.

Sony DSC-F717: 5x zoom, 5 MP, Just out of curiosity, I tried this one, and the zoom speed and shutter release lag were right in line with what I'm looking for. The feel was great, but I don't really care for the body. The lens portion is just to awkward for portability.

Some other new models have just come to market in this range that are enticing (but not yet shipping so I can't actually hold one or read any full reviews of one).

HP 850: 8x optical zoom, 4 MP, AF-assist lamp, electronic view finder.

Olympus C-730 Ultra Zoom: 10x optical zoom, 3 MP, electronic view finder.

Has anyone else been looking around that could offer some tips (short of just waiting for other new models)? I really hate cameras that perform poorly in low-light situations. Plus, I want it to feel more like a 35mm (i.e. low shutter release lag, fast lens, etc). Larger zoom is most preferable.

[Todd Corzett]

Check out dpreview.com They have some great reviews and samples, and seem to get the new cameras quickly.

I have a Canon G1 (all info applies to the G2) and use add-on lenses to increase my optical zoom. If I know I'm going to be taking zoomed pictures I add my 2x multiplier to the camera. I also have the option to add my 0.38x wide angle for the opposite situation.

Hope this helps a little.

-Todd...


Edit: I don't know for sure, but I think the purple fringing thing comes from the red-eye reducing. I've found that lots of my indoor, high glare (off chrome and stuff) have purple, but they were all shot in red-eye mode. I don't think I have the same problem in normal flash mode though (I'll double check).

[xcjbx87]

speaking of *cameras* i am wondering what might be the best digital video camera to make movies with that i could afford. i know that there is that one digital camera in the apple.com section with the poewrbook that is too much for me. any suggestions? i just want to get a good picture mainly.

[Todd Corzett]

xcjbx87 - any information on price you're looking to spend... size of camera... types of outputs (ie firewire)... "snapshot" mode...


-Todd...

[G4ME]

I sware buy all canon products, I got their S330 PS camera and the thing has been rock solid, best action feel then any other cameras, very nice. Also look into their ESO-1 very solid camera and will give you that true SLR fell for not that bad of price

[krove]

The Canon EOS-1D is $5000+! Its sibling, the Canon EOS-D60 is around $2000. However much I'd like one of those, the price is up there...

I've been reading all the reviews over at dpreview.com, but sometimes a review really can't tell me everything (how does it feel in my hands). For example, the Nikon 4500 received a Highly Recommended, but after actually using one, I'd say it wasn't that great of a camera for $700 (at least considering some of the new releases that I mentioned above). Image quality is key, but when the camera is not very responsive with respect to timings, that can start to bother a user over time.

[Camera God]

What are you going to be taking pictures of, and what is the biggest picture you are ever going to print out?

There is one other camera I don't believe was mentioned: the Fuji F602. Sounds like what you need, but I want to see what the answers to these questions are.

[Todd Corzett]

I'd like to hear your answers to Camera Gods questions... Also, how much do you really want to spend?

Personally I really love my Canon G1. I have taken over 7000 pictures with it in the past year, and have never had any problems. The software that Canon uses is really nice, and the cameras are supported in OSX. I also really like the menu structure on the camera, but I've not used many others to compare.

While I really love my camera it is missing things like true SLR lenses, rapid shutter release, 3 fps driver mode, threw the lens view finder (not LCD), SLR manual settings, etc... I'm currently saving up to get a D60 (or whatever comes out next year). If I would have known I would eventually wanted a D60, I wouldn't have spent my money on the G1 first.

From your reaction it sounds like the D60 (or Nikon N100 or FujiS1 Pro) would be expensive, but not totally out of the ball park... you might want to think about what you really want...

Last thing... do you own any lenses for SLR cameras already? You might look into getting a digital SLR that works with the lenses you already own. When I buy my D60 a majority of the cost (almost $1000) will be for getting lenses to use with it... if you already own lenses it can really lower the cost of SLR - once you get past the initial investment.

-Todd...

[xcjbx87]

todd: anything under 500 dollars mainly, also probably a decent size for video editing. small wouldnt be bad for carrying around, but they dont get big zoom like the bigger ones .. ithink.. and a firewire jack and 'snapshot' too would be fine

[krove]

Planned uses:
- family pictures
- some work use (brochures, flyers, product shots)
- like to have it do document my travels (Europe, etc)

Printing:
- like to have the ability to go 8x10 (possibility of going larger would be nice but not necessary)

I think a professional SLR would be overkill (as I don't own any lenses nor am I a photo professional), but I want a nice, flexible camera to better learn about photography. I'm still mixed: I've read a good number of reviews on cameras, gone to the stores to look at them, but each camera seems to have caveats (low zoom capabilities, slow lens, you get the point...).

Some of the cameras I've seen (like the Fuji S602Z) use AA batteries. What are some of your thoughts on that?

[Camera God]

I think that the Fuji F602 is perfect. It has a 6x optical zoom that is almost an f/2.8 all the way through (gathers a ton of light) Also, because it uses a more advanced form of image capturing chip, it renders colors better than any comsumer level canon, nikon, or olympus. Many pictures need to be color corrected, which is a pain in the butt. The F602 almost eliminates the need for that. I should mention that I am a camera sales associate for Ritz Camera so I hear people in your situation everyday.

One thing though, is that the more zoom you have in a lens, the less sharp it is. Not many people are too keen on that.

The resolution of the F602 is 3.3 million pixels by traditional standards, but it can yield a 6 million pixel file (btw, I hate the term 'megapixel' I think that it sounds less sophisticated /end rant) It does this by using octagonal pixels rather than the traditional square or rectangular. Because the pixels fit better together, the camera is able to take advantage of interpolation (a mathematical formula to put pixels in between the pixels) without losing quality like traditional pixel layout.

You mentioned that you are not a professional, but I hear that every day as well. You don't have to be a professional to use professional equipment. You just have to desire high quality images.

And the AA thing. Here is the deal, one set of AA alkaline batteries lasts about 1 hour. You would only use those if you ran out of your rechargable Nickel-metal-hydride batteries. I would reccomend the 1800mAH variety. You will get about 60 images on average out of one set. Using the LCD will yield less images. The camera has a "hyper viewfinder" or electronic, whatever you want to call it. There are two advantages to this 1. there is no mirror shake as in traditional SLR cameras, in theory this means sharper pictures and 2. you get to see all info on the viewfinder, including resolution, images remaining on the card, shutter speed aperture, and you can look at the menu on it. There is more, but it is late and I still have work to do. What else do you want to know about it. I have shot with it, and I believe it to be one of the most superior cameras in your price range.

-CG

[Todd Corzett]

You can always get rechargable AAs, but with the Fuji (dpreview has a nice review of the battery cons) I don't like how you need two different types of batteries to run the camera... one set for the camera and one set for the digital part. For my G1 I have 3 Canon BP511 1100mah batteries and they will take about 130 pictures each, but that's really trying to conserve power (shutting off LCD between shots). The biggest problem with batteries and point and shoot cameras is that the LCD display (which is the only threw the lens view finder) sucks batteries extremely fast!

This is another reason I want a DSLR... As of right now I carry all my screw-on lenses, batteries, chargers (need two to charge all the batteries for the next day's shooting), and laptop... I could remove my laptop with multiple CF cards or an image tank (or similar stuff), but for most shootings a card greater than 256MB (144 pictures) would be pointless... so to save money I take the laptop rather than spending more on cards.
-- What I would really like to do eventually would be to carry my DSLR and one or two lenses (one on camera and in fanny-pack). I would have a 1GB microdrive and take 300+ pictures. I would also only need one (two at the most) batteries... both in the D60 extended battery grip... After a day's shoot I would load my card onto my laptop and charge the two batteries... This would make it so I would only need to carry a few things... rather than everything... I would also not have to spend the time downloading my images and changing batteries and stuff (takes about 15min each time to get everything done)

Well I've told you more than you ever wanted to read... but battery life on LCD viewfinder cameras can be an issue - and AAs (even rechargable ones) would be a pain!

About printing... I have a Olympus P-400 dye-sub printer and it prints a 7.7MP picture. A 7.68"x10" with that printer you need a very high MP camera to out resolution the printer (ie the source image will be the limiting factor, not the printer). Depending on your printer you might need more MP to get the quality you want.

-Todd...

Edit - I'll yack your ear off (well or type your eyes off?) again tomorrow

Now that I read Camera Gods reply... I agree that something like the Fuji F602 would be great for your use. If you find yourself in a situation where you want more from a camera you can always sell it and start saving for a DSLR.

[krove]

I actually went to CompUSA tonight to check out the selection and I was drawn to the Fuji. The interface seems logical enough and the camera is responsive. The interpolation of 3 MP to 6 MP can be somewhat misleading. Although it does create 6 million pixel images, they can be soft (judging by samples over @ dpreview.com, which also noted a slightly orange cast to reds). Lack of an AF-assist lamp isn't exactly good, IMO.

I think I'll wait a little longer to compare the Nikon 5700 (which doesn't seem to be on display anywhere yet), the Fuji S602z, and the HP 850. Hopefully the HP will ship soon because I'm anxious to have a digital camera!

[nana4]

3.3MP is enough for very good results at 8*10. Tho if you want to move up to A3 size then more resolution is recommended.

The Nikon 5700 is very nice, but I find the lack of an auto focus assist lamp is really unacceptable at that price range and seeing what the competition has.

Ideally you would have a very compact camera such as a Canon S330 to carry around everywhere with you, and a D-SLR for those special occasions when you want to carry two tons of gear with you.

[pdot]

i second the dpreview.com suggestion. also, check out their links section. many other good sites to go from there.

As for choosing the right camera, I find that the smaller the camera, the more likely I'll bring it with me. But since you're used to the old 35mm cameras, the bulk may not matter. I can't remember which site it was on the dpreview links (maybe Steve's Digicams?) that has a "assistant" to help you choose the right camera according to size, megapixels, etc.

[Camera God]

You guys keep mentioning the lack of an auto focus assist lamp, but they really are not all that important. The lenses on these digitals are *very* bright as compared to 35mm equivalent. Besides in any low light situation it is always better to switch to manual focus.

Last rant, I promise...
Picture quality is dependent on the lens you use. Film cameras are basically a box that holds film, while the lens is what makes the shot crisp, with a nice amount of contrast. So, I ask you why buy an HP digital camera? I say go for one of the major camera companies. You have to have the design of a great camera before you can have the design of a great digital.

My dad works for Nikon (oddly enough) and I think the 5700 is great. There are 2 reasons why you would want that one over the fuji 1. you do heavy cropping and need the extra resolution 2. you need to mount an external flash. The Fuji is capable of this, however the flash and the camera do not "talk" to each other. Bottom line is that it will take some practice shooting with an external flash. The Nikon has a hot shoe for the flash that has multiple metal contacts on it. That means that the camera tells the flash exactly when to fire and exactly when to shut off according to how much light has gotten to the CCD (image capturing chip). The thing is that the least expensive flash for that is about $200.

So, do you want to use a flash?

Keep the questions coming!

-CG

[nana4]

AFAIK the 5700 is not capable of using many of the facilities of a top end Nikon flash, including no power zoom. Or, perhaps more importantly, it doesn't have the intelligence to use the external flash's focus assist light.