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AppleGirl1990 · May 21, 2009, 09:22 PM

First, let me start off by saying that i love the iPhone and it's OS/Software. But for serious typing, nothing beats a built in keyboard. In my mind, the ultimate smartphone is the iPhone with a hard buttoned keyboard. Create that i'll buy it all day long.

While Apple could certainly fill that niche', they have left the door wide open to the Palm Pre and Blackberry to appeal to the hardcore typing users.

I understand that Apple is all about the touchscreen and having the ability to not have keys take up space when it's not needed, but this is foolish in my opinion.

As seen on the Palm Pre, you can tuck away the keyboard or flip it out if necessary. Apple should do the same or at least make is an purchase option!

Some of you believe this is a terrible idea, but there are millions of users who would purchase it if it existed and they are losing sales by not having it. I'm a blackberry user who wants all the iPhone capabilities with a fixed keyboard. I am exactly the end user they are missing out on.

Lets just pray the Palm Pre software sucks or the iPhone is in trouble!

bballe336 · May 21, 2009, 09:42 PM

I doubt apple would garner significantly higher sales due to a hardware keyboard, it would just cause them more headaches as its one more thing that could break.

Have you typed on an iphone? It isn't bad at all, and it will certainly improve in OS 3.0 when most apps will support the horizontal orientation.

turtle777 · May 21, 2009, 09:42 PM

We need a "I want an iPhone with keyboard" Lounge.

-t

Simon · May 22, 2009, 03:27 AM

^ So true. We've seen this discussion how many times now?

Anyway, not gonna happen. Stick to the BB or get a Pre or Android. Apple aint going hardware KB anytime soon.

ajprice · May 22, 2009, 04:52 AM

If you're not happy, you could always make your own phone - FLOW is like the Ikea bookshelf of Android phones

Spheric Harlot · May 22, 2009, 05:11 AM

Originally Posted by AppleGirl1990

Some of you believe this is a terrible idea, but there are millions of users who would purchase it if it existed and they are losing sales by not having it. I'm a blackberry user who wants all the iPhone capabilities with a fixed keyboard. I am exactly the end user they are missing out on.

I'm sure they're really feeling the loss.

I for one am very pleased about the upcoming Palm Pre: It looks like the first real competitor to the iPhone, and it's sure to have lit a fire under Apple's ass to keep improving the iPhone.

And it's a great alternative for people who need a hardware keyboard, which Apple won't add.

I don't think the iPhone is "in trouble" because of it.

::maroma:: · May 22, 2009, 12:21 PM

Look at the sales numbers. The iPhone is not in trouble. Hardware keyboards have been around long before the iPhone was even a glimmer in Steve's eye, and the iPhone still beats anything out there.

Having a hardware keyboard does not make a phone better than the iPhone. Sure its a deal breaker for some, but most people think that they couldn't type well on a software keyboard, until they actually try to. I've personally seen many people rail against the iPhone's keyboard, then they type on it for a while, and proceed to say "actually, its pretty nice".

There is no single feature that makes the iPhone great. Its the whole package. No one can match that right now, and I'm not worried about the Pre. Palm has a long way to go to catch up. There's a ton of buzz, but I also heard a ton of buzz about the myriad of other "iPhone Killers" that have been released.

JKT · May 22, 2009, 02:41 PM

You are also underestimating the numerous advantages that the software keyboard has for end users. Try writing in German, French or Japanese on an English language hardware keyboard (or vice versa) if you are a dual language speaker, then try doing it on the iPhone. Want to use any special characters? Easy as pie on the iPhone.

Anyway, I suspect that I could actually type faster on my iPhone than many hardware keyboard users could... just so long as I don't have to include the f word anywhere.

Simon · May 22, 2009, 04:07 PM

I used three different models of Palm Treos for several years before I got my iPhone 3G. After less than a year of having the iPhone I can say that I am way faster at typing on my iPhone than I ever was on the Treo even though those had hardware KBs. The iPhone's built-in correction makes all the difference.

AppleGirl1990 · May 22, 2009, 04:53 PM

Some of you are missing the bigger picture.

Right now, many people will want the Pre because it's an iPhone with a built in keyboard. If Apple releases one, now nobody will need the Pre. Palm will lose a ton of money. Apple has allowed the Pre niche' to exist, but could easily knock them out of the food chain by creating there own.

Why allow Palm to get this revenue stream. Could be Apples!

Simon · May 22, 2009, 05:15 PM

A Pre is about as much an iPhone as Windows is OS X.

::maroma:: · May 22, 2009, 05:48 PM

Originally Posted by AppleGirl1990

Right now, many people will want the Pre because it's an iPhone with a built in keyboard.

The Pre is not an iPhone with a built in keyboard. The iPhone is so much more than the keyboard. Do you remember when the iPhone was announced? The Internets were blowing up about how the iPhone was a major "FAIL" because of the lack of a "real" keyboard. They were wrong. And that proves the argument against a hardware keyboard for the iPhone. Sure, there is a certain sector of the market that must have a hardware keyboard, but that is just not enough to make Apple go against their design standards. The lack of a hardware keyboard in the iPhone is not just some flippant decision made by Apple, its purposeful. Its driven by philosophy.

Lets all just wait a while and see what the Pre winds up doing in the market. I'm sure it will be successful, but I am just as sure it will not kill the iPhone, nor will it drive Apple to suddenly do a 180 on the keyboard issue.

ort888 · May 22, 2009, 06:46 PM

Apple needs to allow 3rd parties to make bluetooth keyboards.

Someone could make one that clips onto the iPhone essentially turning it into a phone with a keyboard. I'm thinking some sort of flip device where the keyboard would cover the screen and then fold out. IT would add a lot of bulk, but you know that would be really popular.

DigitalEl · May 22, 2009, 09:25 PM

The Pre is not an iPhone with a keyboard. Period.

"It's the software, stupid."

Some people will never get it... Like my coworkers with LG Dares and Samsung Instincts who think their featurephones are the same as an iPhone.

It's a pointless thing to argue. To each his or her own. Enjoy your Dare... Or Instinct... Or Pre.

For the record, the Pre does look sexy as hell, but until there are thousands of apps for it, I'll pass.

milhous · May 23, 2009, 01:55 AM

Originally Posted by ort888

Apple needs to allow 3rd parties to make bluetooth keyboards.

Someone could make one that clips onto the iPhone essentially turning it into a phone with a keyboard. I'm thinking some sort of flip device where the keyboard would cover the screen and then fold out. IT would add a lot of bulk, but you know that would be really popular.

Absolutely correct. This can be easily dealt with through aftermarket manufacturers. If Apple allows input devices to interface with the iPhone, there's no reason why a Griffin or any other Mac accessories maker couldn't make one. There's definitely a market for them. My idea of such a thing would be a slider keyboard coupled with a tight-fit cradle.

Had the lack of a physical keyboard been an absolute dealbreaker with the iPhone, it would not be selling as well as it is today.

cgc · May 23, 2009, 01:12 PM

Originally Posted by DigitalEl

The Pre is not an iPhone with a keyboard. Period.

"It's the software, stupid."

Some people will never get it... Like my coworkers with LG Dares and Samsung Instincts who think their featurephones are the same as an iPhone.

It's a pointless thing to argue. To each his or her own. Enjoy your Dare... Or Instinct... Or Pre.

For the record, the Pre does look sexy as hell, but until there are thousands of apps for it, I'll pass.

Ironically, what you said, while true, would be a GREAT commercial for Microsoft (versus Mac). It's the apps...

AppleGirl1990 · May 23, 2009, 04:07 PM

Right now Palm is hurting because so many companies have come out with products better than theirs and Palm hasn't come out with anything 'great' in a long time. I remember the days when Palm was the King, not anymore. Well, Apple is now king and that could change as well. Never forget!

Take a page from Microsoft. When you are on top, the way to stay there is to destroy the competition.

Palm is looking for the next big thing. The Pre "COULD" be big. I think it will be. So if you allow the Palm Pre to succeed, they will have a major revenue steam going into the future. And in the future, they could really hurt Apple with even more new products. Chop off their legs now and maybe there won't be any future developments.

As my pappy always said, "If you wait for the tiger cub to grow, you'll eventually get mauled."

Apple should come out with a fixed keyboard for 1 simple reason. To eat up marketshare and prevent that revenue from going to competitors. Apple users will have a choice between a virtual keyboard and a fixed keyboard. What's the harm to Apple in doing so?

I think the benefits clearly outweigh the negatives.....

Simon · May 23, 2009, 04:08 PM

Originally Posted by cgc

Ironically, what you said, while true, would be a GREAT commercial for Microsoft (versus Mac). It's the apps...

If it were not for the fact that 9 out of 10 Win apps suck. Especially the free and shareware apps.

Spheric Harlot · May 23, 2009, 05:07 PM

Originally Posted by AppleGirl1990

Some of you are missing the bigger picture.

Right now, many people will want the Pre because it's an iPhone with a built in keyboard. If Apple releases one, now nobody will need the Pre. Palm will lose a ton of money.

Did you miss the part where they're actually different products, running different OSes, from different companies?

Right now, many people will want the BMW 5 series because it's a Goldwing with four wheels. If Yamaha releases one, now nobody will need the 5-series. BMW will lose a ton of money.

-Q- · May 23, 2009, 06:22 PM

You're also ignoring all sorts of external factors, like the Pre being on the Sprint network. And totally overestimating the appeal of a hardware keyboard. If that were such an appealing factor, the Android phones would probably be doing better than they are (not that their 'failures' by any means, but in comparison to iPhone sales numbers, they don't compare favorably).

darkmatter · May 23, 2009, 08:15 PM

Hi

The core, key and one of the most important futures of all Apple's hardware and software products is simplicity. I imagine Apple invested very big amounts of money on the Multitouch interface and also to create the iPhone as it is, different from all other cell phones, hard to copy and with a software development foundation that is revolutionizing the hole cell phone industry.

Maybe Steve Jobs has a secret team of researchers, with a very big budget, just investigating how to eliminate the buttons that iPhone currently futures. They achieved it with the iPod shuffle, they may succeed with the iPhone. Exaggerating a little bit imagine an iPhone not even with the home button.

After nearly 3 decades of single button mouse I guess that a build in keyboard will never happen for the iPhone. Maybe including a Scroll Lock button, Print Screen or even the Break button would catch some legacy lovers to get an iPhone, but these are not the kind of futures that will help the next iPhone release to kick the

of all the cell phone industry.

Best Regards

bearcatrp · May 23, 2009, 11:51 PM

Its mostly the software that will drive sales. That and multiple carriers. If apple doesn't get off the exclusitivity with crappy AT&T and sell on othe carriers, the pre will take market share from apple. I don't believe in this one carrier only for certain phones. I probably would have bought a iPhone if they were on another carrier, but since there on crappy AT&T (i used to be on them), I bought a blackberry. The slide out keyboard will only attract some folks.

AppleGirl1990 · May 24, 2009, 09:46 AM

If you honestly think you can type more accurately than me and quicker on an iPhone than a hard-keyboard.....i must then challenge you to a type off.

you are only kidding yourself.

Spheric Harlot · May 24, 2009, 10:06 AM

Okay.

You type Japanese, too?

-Q- · May 24, 2009, 11:22 AM

Bring it. After 2 years with my iPhone, I'll pwn you.

pcryan5 · May 24, 2009, 01:21 PM

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot

I for one am very pleased about the upcoming Palm Pre: It looks like the first real competitor to the iPhone, .

I suspect the target customer for the Palm would be corporate. As a tech buyer for a 70K+ staff I see very little enthusiasm in taking a gamble on moving from BB/iPhone to what is seen as a dying company. The Pre may be a smashing technical success - I just can't see corporations being interested in changing their device base for it.

AppleGirl1990 · May 24, 2009, 02:09 PM

Spheric, if i had to type in Japanese, i would get a Japanese hard keyboard. You really are a lemon.

Simon · 03:26 PM

Originally Posted by AppleGirl1990

If you honestly think you can type more accurately than me and quicker on an iPhone than a hard-keyboard.....i must then challenge you to a type off.

It's obvious you don't have an iPhone and hence have no idea what you are taliking ahout. It's preciesely because the iPhone's software KB has built-in error corection that typing accurately is not important. I type like crazy because I don't care about accuracy and mistakes, the iPhone corrects them anyway. That's why I can type so fast on the iPhone.

Much faster than on the Treos I owned that actually had a hardware KB. Because contrary to you, I have extensive experience with both types of KBs and I actually can make a real comparison. All the hot air aint changing a thing about that.

0157988944 · May 24, 2009, 03:22 PM

And if he (or I, or anyone with an iPhone) had to type in Japanese (or French, German, Spanish...) I would turn on the Japanese (or French, German, Spanish...) keyboard in Settings.

Lemony.

pcryan5 · May 24, 2009, 07:31 PM

Originally Posted by AppleGirl1990

Palm will lose a ton of money. Apple has allowed the Pre niche' to exist, but could easily knock them out of the food chain by creating there own.

"would lose lots of money"???

As of March 2009 they have lost money the last 6 quarters. First quarter lost for 2009 was $506M...
Dead company walking...

auto_immune · May 24, 2009, 08:00 PM

I have used Palm products for years - I have owned the treo 600, two 650's, and the 680.
When i first saw the Palm Pre being advertised i laughed like hell - the Pre is a joke.

AppleGirl1990 · May 24, 2009, 09:58 PM

i agree, it's a dead company walking....

Apple could fire the final shot. But instead, they will allow them to survive. I guess we'll have to wait and see if it comes back to bite us.

Spheric Harlot · May 25, 2009, 03:20 AM

Originally Posted by auto_immune

I have used Palm products for years - I have owned the treo 600, two 650's, and the 680.
When i first saw the Palm Pre being advertised i laughed like hell - the Pre is a joke.

It's their first viable product in *years*.

The new OS looks really good; the product does as well.

angelmb · May 25, 2009, 05:28 AM

Originally Posted by AppleGirl1990

I'm a blackberry user who wants all the iPhone capabilities with a fixed keyboard. I am exactly the end user they are missing out on.

I guess you dislike the Storm.

Spheric Harlot · May 25, 2009, 06:04 AM

Who doesn't?

JKT · May 25, 2009, 12:18 PM

Personally, I think the Pre looks pretty good and I'm sure it is going to sell very well. It is unlikely to make me switch away from an iPhone though as I am a Mac user and I suspect that their Mac support will be abysmal.

However, the mistake AppleGirl1990 is making is in thinking that the smart phone market is an all or nothing thing. Why should Apple even need to kill Palm off? Why should they need to be the MS of the smart phone market? It just isn't the way they operate. Being the MS of anything means making too many compromises on your quality and the amount of innovation you can bring to the market... Apple's philosophy is to keep on designing great products and thus to guarantee a market for them as a result because people will always buy great things. In any case, the size of the potential market is massive and all that Apple, Blackberry, MS and Palm have done so far is scratch the surface of it. Over the next few years, they can all be winners and none need be losers.

AppleGirl1990 · May 25, 2009, 05:52 PM

JKT: Your comparison of Apple = Microsoft is flawed.
If Apple created an iPhone with a fixed keyboard, it wouldn't be compromising quality or innovation. On the contrary, they are further innovating by offering a new product.

I agree it's a Microsoft move by knocking out competition, but since when is that a bad thing?
I take it you're not a shareholder, cause if you were and therefore cared about profit and future earnings, you would want total domination of the smartphone market.

AngelMB: Storm's software doesn't compare to the iPhone, if it did, i would have thrown it into the conversation mix.

Spheric Harlot: You spoke the truth. Pre will be a good product from a bad company. However, all you need is one hit and there back in the game.

bballe336 · May 25, 2009, 08:15 PM

AppleGirl, the majority of what you are saying doesn't make a whole lot of sense. The iphone software keyboard is fantastic. It has so many advantages over a hardware keyboard. I have a treo right now, and would much prefer the iphone keyboard as it is much quicker to type on. I also don't think I'd want an iphone as much if it had a sliding keyboard, it is very slick as is because there are no moving parts.

Much of the reason there is a lot of hype surrounding the pre is due to its software, not the physical keyboard.

Also how do you see the pre as a huge threat to apple if you consider palm "a dead company walking"?

What it comes down to is that if you don't like the iphone, apple doesn't really care, because there are millions out there who do.

AppleGirl1990 · May 25, 2009, 09:22 PM

I must be confusing you boys. I love the iPhone...always have! But i think a hard keyboard is better for typing.

Bballe: There are millions of users who care and therefore Apple should care. If Apple stops caring, I'll have to start calling it Applesoft.

Until then, i remain humble and hopeful.

bballe336 · May 25, 2009, 09:40 PM

Originally Posted by AppleGirl1990

I must be confusing you boys. I love the iPhone...always have! But i think a hard keyboard is better for typing.

Bballe: There are millions of users who care and therefore Apple should care. If Apple stops caring, I'll have to start calling it Applesoft.

Until then, i remain humble and hopeful.

I'm not sure if you've looked at any sales stats, but the iphone sells incredibly well. I have never met anyone who hasn't switched to an iphone just because of the lack of hardware keyboard, and in reality it is a very minor complaint.

Those who don't buy iphones due to lack of a hardware keyboard are part of a tiny minority, and are therefore ignored by apple. I bet apple will garner more new iphone customers with the new copy and paste gestures in OS 3.0 than they would gain from a hardware keyboard.

pcryan5 · May 25, 2009, 10:22 PM

Originally Posted by bballe336

IThose who don't buy iphones due to lack of a hardware keyboard are part of a tiny minority, and are therefore ignored by apple.

I understand there are also some issues as to whether it can be supported on an enterprise level. My company - being health care - has requirements that we can "kill" a device remotely. That we can impose a complex password setting. Do you know if iPhone supports that?

thanks

P

0157988944 · May 25, 2009, 11:06 PM

It does.

Simon · May 26, 2009, 02:36 AM

Originally Posted by AppleGirl1990

I must be confusing you boys.

You're overestimating yourself.

But i think a hard keyboard is better for typing.

Because you have barely any typing experience on an iPhone.

I have yet to meet a single person who types a lot on his iPhone and doesn't think it's the fastest typing he's ever done on a phone or PDA. It's just like switching to OS X - once you switch you never go back.

The only people who criticize the iPhone's software KB are people who
a) haven't ever used an iPhone
b) used an iPhone at a store for about 2 minutes
c) go by the name Steve Balmer.

The fact that everybody who uses it heavily loves it indicates Apple got it just right (once again).

Spheric Harlot · May 26, 2009, 04:09 AM

Originally Posted by AppleGirl1990

I agree it's a Microsoft move by knocking out competition, but since when is that a bad thing?
I take it you're not a shareholder, cause if you were and therefore cared about profit and future earnings, you would want total domination of the smartphone market.

Heavens, no!

Nothing is worse than the complacency of knowing you're the only game in town.

See what's happened to Microsoft: Somebody noticed that Vista wasn't wearing any clothes, and suddenly the company was a laughing stock.

JKT · May 26, 2009, 08:31 AM

Originally Posted by pcryan5

I understand there are also some issues as to whether it can be supported on an enterprise level. My company - being health care - has requirements that we can "kill" a device remotely. That we can impose a complex password setting. Do you know if iPhone supports that?

thanks

P

If you install Apple's iPhone Configuration Utility (free download), you can require a complex password and other settings on any iPhone:

However, I believe you need a corporate developer licence (or something) to be able to remotely wipe the device.

JKT · May 26, 2009, 09:02 AM

Originally Posted by AppleGirl1990

If Apple created an iPhone with a fixed keyboard, it wouldn't be compromising quality or innovation. On the contrary, they are further innovating by offering a new product.

The compromise would be in their need to support both a hardware kb and a software kb in the OS. The compromise would be that the hardware kb would only work in one view (portrait or landscape) like the Pre or the G1 (which has been roundly criticised for this limitation, fwiw), and therefore the software and the apps that run on it would become restricted by having to only work in that view. This compromise would have to extend to the developer environment and to iTunes to prevent third party apps that only work on one platform from being installed on the other. The compromise would be that the design and production costs would have to increase as they fork the number of models they would subsequently have to create (unlike the current iPhone which is a build once, sell anywhere solution a physical keyboard model would require entirely different models for different geographies as one keyboard cannot fit all).

The question for Apple then becomes, is it worth bothering with this increase in complexity? Is there a significant enough market out there to justify the costs? Anybody who uses an iPhone for more than a few days learns that the software keyboard is anything but a handicap (it is in fact a huge benefit) so why go to all the effort of forking their development, production, and support just to appeal to what is presumably a small part of the market who think they have to have something they don't actually need? Why not spend more of your resources "killing" the competition simply by making your current product even better than it already is?

Imo, the reason why the Pre is seen as a threat to the iPhone is not because of its keyboard, but because it looks like the OS is very good (though the proof of that will be in the pudding - a slick tech demo is hardly equivalent to reality). On top of that, it is the fact that developing apps for it is apparently easy too, which is one of the major factors that the iPhone has over the current competition. That and Palm have been very successful at marketing their device as the only real alternative to the iPhone, through the support of a tech media drive that would love to see Apple brought down a peg or two.

bishopazrael · May 26, 2009, 02:45 PM

I'm not too invested in the Apple vs Palm debate. My feeling about phones has always been that once you get past the basics of functionality, ie... using it to talk to someone else on the other end, that it all comes down to taste. Either you like it or you don't. There is a whole industry devoted to manufacturing this so-called war between companies and phones.

In reality phones are made to try and fit the needs of the widest group of people possible. They try and fill in gaps that other phones have left in the past.

Having said this, I have an iPhone 3g 16gb. l like the Pre. I'd buy the Pre. I'd sell the iPhone for the Pre. But I won't. I like the Pre because of the cards and its ability to multitask. Yes that is hugely important to me. I also like the fact that from the get go they have things like copy/paste in it. No need to wait 3 years for an OS upgrade, its just a natural thing to want to have. It's in other OS's such as Palm's older ones and even WinMo has it. Why not the iPhone? Another is that when you sync your Palm to your Mac as it stands today, calendar syncs to ical, notes syncs to the stickies program, address book syncs to address book, the logical sync points are connected. Are you telling me Apple honestly DIDN'T think that people would want to have a note program they could sync to the stickies program or even the notes in apple mail? Aside from that what both the iphone and the pre have in common is the non-upgradability. Or in english, the lack of a memory card slot. Adding on a card slot wouldn't break their physical form factors by much more than a 1/16th of an inch. But no, they've both decided to remove a feature that MANY people use.

Why? To control what people do with their phones. How data and such gets into the phone. Why remove the ability to upgrade or just simply add onto the existing memory? Memory cards now, the SDHC cards could effectively double the capacity of my existing iPhone, doubling or even tripling its current lifespan of usability to me. Lets face it, the next BIG break through for mobile phones is a LONG way off. I'm talking the next big break through for mobile phones will be the ability to have video calls. GOOD video calls, not the crap Nokia wants you to believe is just around the corner. The US cellular network just isn't capable of handling that much data. So why are the 2 major phones in the smartphone market devoid of memory slots?

Apple wants to control their upgrade path and how we use our device. Look at it from a logical point of view. When the iPhone came out it didn't support multiple calendars like iCal supported. We had to upgrade to get that. This is all just a game to them. If the really wanted to build the device that "customers want" then they'd have built it by now. But it hasn't been built because they want to work up to it and have us pay for revision after revision.

And you and I are left with the only option open to us to get the most out of our phones. Pirates and hackers. Want to have copy paste on the iphone? The only way to have it today is to put something on your phone that Apple doesn't want you to have. And by the way, they're lobbying to make it illegal to do so.

Thats right. Apple, the company that many here will defend as can do no wrong, wants to tell you, after you pay for and own your very own iphone, what you can and can't put into it. They want to fine you if you are found to have illegal software on the iphone. Or maybe they just want to throw you in jail. Why not? So they start with software.... ok .. it's illegal to install or jailbreak your iphone.

What next? You can't put on music you DIDN'T buy from the iTunes store? Sure sure, there's going to be someone to reply to this that will say "Don't be absurd". Ok. But what software is apple trying to keep off of the iphone? Why are they lobbying to make it against the law to put on software they don't approve of? Why does Apple even have a say in what I can and can't do with something that I own?

And it all comes back to this. Here we are, bickering about physical keyboards. People, its just down to a person's individual taste. Whether or not they like it. That's it. What we should be having the discussion on is where do we go from here, and how do we make sure that once we own a device, how do we ensure that we can do whatever we want with it?

Spheric Harlot · May 26, 2009, 03:21 PM

Originally Posted by bishopazrael

I also like the fact that from the get go they have things like copy/paste in it. No need to wait 3 years for an OS upgrade, its just a natural thing to want to have. It's in other OS's such as Palm's older ones and even WinMo has it. Why not the iPhone?

This has been discussed to death and back, but the answer is quite simple: Apple needed an implementation of copy and paste that didn't suck, not one that barely works - provided you're using a stylus.

Which you're not, on the iPhone.

Spheric Harlot · May 26, 2009, 03:38 PM

Originally Posted by bishopazrael

Or in english, the lack of a memory card slot. Adding on a card slot wouldn't break their physical form factors by much more than a 1/16th of an inch. But no, they've both decided to remove a feature that MANY people use.

Actually, you've got it COMPLETELY backwards:

They decided not to add a feature that MOST people DON'T use.

That's what Apple is about - removing the unnecessary to keep things as sleek and straightforward as possible, at the expense of alienating five or ten geeks.

The expandability thing in particular is an utterly useless argument: hardly anybody needs additional or removable storage except those poor people with computers that won't recognize a folder with photos unless it's plugged into a card reader.

The ONLY use I ever got out of the card slots in my past two phones was being supplied with supreme annoyance as the slot broke when I dropped my phone, which led to the stupid thing constantly popping out until I permanently removed it.

Horrible, spiteful, fiddly things, those stupid card slots. Urgh. Hate hate hate.

In my current phone, all I've ever dumped in it is a handful of podcasts and the very few vids, photos, and voice memos I add on the road that are immediately pulled off the phone when I get home.

I could use it for a lot more music if Sony-Ericsson had simply added a sensible amount of memory from the get-go, but to be honest, the internal memory would have been more than adequate.

bishopazrael · May 26, 2009, 04:47 PM

Thus my point is proven. What one considers to be useful, another despises. I'm not really TOO worried about the memory card slot. My point with that was that it would have been great for Palm to continue to put it in as an added feature, as they did with the Treo's. Its not really a make or break for me.

But honestly, I'm so tired of having to hear about how Apple is trying to control what is and isn't done with something they sell. If they were going to apply this theory seriously it should carry over to all their systems. But seeing as how there would be a HUGE revolt if Apple were to tell the music/ movie industry what they could and couldn't produce on the systems they spend upwards of $15,000 on, Apple's trying it on the iPhone community. I find it distasteful and ignorant, and truly just plain brash and rude of them to do so just because this is a "mobile" platform. But then again, isn't their MBP's? And will this carry over should they decide to make a tablet?

All in all I find these arguments silly. There's no Palm killer (palm it turns out was its own worst enemy) and there is no iPhone killer, because its really just a matter of what current device fits your current needs and wants the most. Sadly because they need to make continual profits we'll never truly see "the best handset since the wheel was invented".

That, and even then, there'll be one guy out there who wants something different.