[calimehtar]

I had such success with my first "things I hate about mac os x" thread I'm doing it again. Disclaimer: I love mac os x but it's not perfect. my goal is just to keep macheads thinking critically about their os of choice.

I haven't yet heard anyone say that they prefer brushed metal to aqua. Aqua was annoying in it's own way (the pulsating blue got on my nerves, thankfully i can switch to grey), but brushed metal introduces all kinds of new annoyances.

Just compare omniweb to safari, the latest version of omniweb runs the same rendering engine so the comparison is very fair. Omniweb has big, colourful, self-explantory icons in the toolbar while safari has small boxes containing smaller, obtuse, geometric icons.

omniweb uses that sweet icon sheet to customize icons in the toolbar via drag-and-drop. Safari uses the antiquated and clumsy checkbox-in-a-pulldown-menu metaphor.


The statusbar in Safari, while very helpful, is almost illegible thanks to being rendered as embossing on the brushed metal(!) Frankly, it's outrageous that apple would do such a thing when the alternative (in aqua) is black text on a soft light-grey background.

Is this what we're going to get from Panther's finder? Apparently from all the screenshots I've seen it is.

As far as I can tell, the only advantage of brushed metal is that it increases the contrast between document and application in a way users of windows and mac os 9 (platinum) are used to. If I didn't already have too many hobbies, in fact, I'd make a mac os x theme called "NotBrushedMetal" and do it in a rich walnut veneer.

[msuper69]

Originally posted by calimehtar:
...

I haven't yet heard anyone say that they prefer brushed metal to aqua. ..

Now you have...

I prefer the brushed metal appearance over Aqua.

[Arkham_c]

I like brushed metal.

I like aqua too. I do NOT like that they are intermingled all over the place.

I think Apple should make it a system-wide theme, and you can pick one or the other, system-wide.

[absmiths]

Originally posted by calimehtar:
I had such success with my first "things I hate about mac os x" thread I'm doing it again. Disclaimer: I love mac os x but it's not perfect. my goal is just to keep macheads thinking critically about their os of choice.

There is a difference between being critical and gagging on gnats. My wife and Mother-in-law can use safari, itunes, iphoto, imovie and many other Brushed Metal apps and don't have many problems (considering what they are doing). They have also yet to complain about the appearance, which is a first. If Apple releases a difficult to use OS, I will be extremely critical. Ditto if the substructure is not stable. But Apple exchanging stripes for streaks won't much hinder my experience. And, honestly, after using Safari full time since first Beta, I haven't noticed the problems you mentioned. I do, however, notice that Safari takes an ETERNITY to open the first time - and I wish they would fix that, because that IS problematic.

If I didn't already have too many hobbies, in fact, I'd make a mac os x theme called "NotBrushedMetal" and do it in a rich walnut veneer.

That would be "Brushed Walnut", and everyone would hate it because it wasn't Aqua (even those who hate Aqua ).

[delete]

I have to say that I dislike brushed metal in general.
Having said that I would dislike it less if it and other related graphic elements were more refined. If a brushed metal look in OSX had the graphic equivalent in taste to the new Powerbook's industrial design then maybe we'd have something. Maybe the ID poeple can lend a hand to the GUI people?!

I also think the brushed/aqua combo needs to be thought ought a bit more. A nicer looking brushed look may relate better to the new metals that are used in the hardware now, but to me the bubble/lozenge look of aqua relates more to a Bondi iMac. Kind of a graphic/industrial design contradiction.

This will all probably be a moot point anyway as Max will come up with a theme that looks better!

[calimehtar]

That's it, delete, in fact why not an interface based on the look (smooth white) of the ipod which would lend itself better to computer graphics anyway.

But why does apple feel like the gui must imitate the hardware anyway. Hardware and software are two completely different worlds. If you could interact directly with the display and get tactile feedback from the finder the same way you do with hardware I might feel differently about it.

Aqua, pulsating colourful buttons aside, at least had some features to it that took advantage of the display in useful ways. Among my favourites were the big colourful illustration-style buttons and the absence of borders (the fuctionality of borders was nicely replaced with drop shadows, I feel, in a way that took up zero screen real-estate.)

Also the bit about the walnut veneer gui was intended as a joke.

[starman]

Uh,

Brushed metal IS Aqua. Remember, Aqua encompasses the INTERFACE ELEMENTS.

"Bring your Mac to life with expressive icons, vibrant color and fluid motion. Aqua includes a number of innovative time- and work-saving features that help you navigate and organize your system."

http://www.apple.com/macosx/technologies/

And from the PANTHER site:

"Its gorgeous user interface, Aqua, brings your desktop to life with expressive icons, vibrant color and fluid motion."

http://www.apple.com/macosx/panther/

It's obvious you don't understand what you're even griping about.

Mike

[Catfish_Man]

Personally, I think that a lot of what Panther is doing to aqua reduces the usefulness of bm (increased use of grey, for example, diminishes the need of bm for contrast), and I quite like it (I have very minor issues with the titlebar, but I'm spoiled by smoothstripes). I really like the subdued stripes. I really like the new buttons. I think the bm finder is a dang stupid idea for several reasons:

1) The finder is among the apps most likely to have multiple windows open. A visual indication of keywindow is essential for apps like that

2) The whole thing reminds me of my friend's busted '70s blender, which was also bm.

3) It dominates the desktop too much. For something like Safari, that's fine. It calls attention to the web page, which is probably what you're using. For the Finder, it's a problem. The file browser should not dominate anything. It should give you the files you need as quickly and transparently as possible. In a theoretical ideal system, you wouldn't even know it was there, it would just have the document you wanted waiting for you. The incremental find goes a long way towards this (if it's fast enough).

[ckohler]

I don't care either way. Both look fine to me.

[Nonsuch]

You're comparing the toolbar implementations in Safari and Omniweb and concluding that it indicates a fundamental flaw in the brushed metal theme. It doesn't; it's simply a different implementation. The Panther Finder doesn't use pull-down menus and check boxes for custom icons, and you can put in icons as colorful as you want. What's the problem?

I seriously don't see how people get so bent out of shape over brushed metal. Is it as nice as Aqua? I personally don't think it is. Does it in any way impede me working/playing in these apps? No. Give it a rest.

[iPond317]

Originally posted by Arkham_c:
I like brushed metal.

I like aqua too. I do NOT like that they are intermingled all over the place.

I think Apple should make it a system-wide theme, and you can pick one or the other, system-wide.

I second that...

[keston]

I prefer the aqua (cleaner) look. Brushed metal is OK i guess, but i don't like the slow down that accompanies it (Eg. Window resizing in finder/panther).

[Eug]

I prefer the brushed metal aqua over the pinstripe aqua.

Matches my TiBook, my keyboard, my mouse, my monitor, and the G5 I will likely buy next year. Pinstripes look... well... just out of place in my setup.

[cpac]

Originally posted by Arkham_c:
I like brushed metal.

I like aqua too. I do NOT like that they are intermingled all over the place.

I think Apple should make it a system-wide theme, and you can pick one or the other, system-wide.

Their different functionality prevents this (i.e. draggable area of metal makes for different window sizes, widget placement, etc.)

(and sheets look awfully weird on metal programs - safari included).

Anyway, I think shifting the finder makes sense - as was noted by somebody elsewhere, to the extent that Metal is used for non-document-centric applications, the finder falls into this category.

In general, metal apps are players, or viewers, or organizers of one sort or another, while Aqua apps tend to be about content creation. So word processors and the like should be aqua while mp3 players should be metal.

It makes some sense intuitively, though nothing in the metal/aqua debate stands up to too-close scrutiny. In general switching the finder made sense as it is a prime example of a viewer/organizer and not a content creator.

I just wish Apple would more clearly define the guildlines and more clearly stick with them...

[dlefebvre]

When X came out, I didn't like the liquid candy feel of Aqua. I tried to modify it with all sort of hacks, making my sytem unstable. Since Jaguar came out, I haven't modify the GUI in any way and I like it very much. I guess it grew on me. In fact, I started to really like it when they upgraded my PC at work with XP (Talk about contradiction. A professional OS with a Kindergarten look and feel. I keep making fun of my XP user friend who has an OS X theme). As far as the BM thing, I could not explain it, but to me it make sense. Since the new finder kind of work like iTunes browser, it also make sense.

[Nathan Adams]

You know, I'm starting to see justification for brushed metal in the finder. The argument that you suggest cpac really does make sense

But I guess I'll still bitch about how it's implemented in the Finder. The borders, especcially the big chunky one at the bottom, looks ugly and adds too much weight. It should be more like Safari, with a brushed titlebar and toolbar, and a borderless pane underneath. (yes, I know it goes like that if you click the lozenge, but then you lose the toolbar and shelf)

[Developer]

Originally posted by cpac:
In general, metal apps are players, or viewers.

Why is Preview not metal?

[sadie]

Originally posted by Nathan Adams:
But I guess I'll still bitch about how it's implemented in the Finder. The borders, especcially the big chunky one at the bottom, looks ugly and adds too much weight. It should be more like Safari, with a brushed titlebar and toolbar, and a borderless pane underneath. (yes, I know it goes like that if you click the lozenge, but then you lose the toolbar and shelf)

Exactly. My only problem with brushed metal is not how it looks, but the way it swallows screen space with big fat meaningless borders. Make it flush to the edges, like a normal window, and it's quite pretty.

[bamburg dunes]

Brushed metal is just plain ****, IMO, bloody ugly, bulky, clunky and does detract from my user experience of X. I'm using Panther just now and while I love what's going into it, and even the toned down striped aqua, the metal finder is just overkill.
Some examples of what bugs me, a sheet in safari is striped, just floats out of nowhere and feels messy. When a window is in the currently selcted one, it's hard to really tell, onyl the shadow shrinks and the text dulls a little, nowhere near as useful, or informative as the striped look.
The BM look in Panther is really annoying me and just hope someone can come up with a way to give me back my titlebars. One other thing, when windows are displayed spatially, the metal serves no purpose at all, no borders to grab, the status bar isn't grabbable, and knowing when you are on the title bar or not isn't clear.

[wulf]

Originally posted by sadie:
Exactly. My only problem with brushed metal is not how it looks, but the way it swallows screen space with big fat meaningless borders. Make it flush to the edges, like a normal window, and it's quite pretty.

I'm really in two minds about it. While I'm not 100% about the BM Finder, the borders do at least allow for more flexible window-dragging. People complained about not having this functionality no end during the early days of Aqua.

I have to say that after using the BM Finder, it has really grown on me, at least to the point where I don't completely hate it, and I'm now starting to see it more as an evolution of the old grey window/Platinum design school.

My biggest problem is that Safari and Finder windows become much harder to distinguish and thus, navigation is more fiddly. Ah well, I guess that's what Expos� is for

[absmiths]

Originally posted by Developer:
Why is Preview not metal?

And why is iMovie metal? It's primary function is content creation (it just happens to interface with cameras to do it). If it makes sense, then Photoshop should also be brushed metal too.

[absmiths]

Originally posted by calimehtar:
Also the bit about the walnut veneer gui was intended as a joke.

Yes, I know, so was my reply.

[OAW]

Why is Sherlock not metal?

I'm in the camp that doesn't mind the metal .... I just wish Apple would show some consistency on when metal is used and when Aqua is used.

OAW

[wwworry]

I like metal and I am not put off by inconsistency. I am an adult.

[TheTraveller]

It just amazes me how much energy goes into discussing Brushed Metal. I suppose it's better than a thread about the design scheme for the SPROD, but not by much.

[Silky Voice of The Gorn]

Originally posted by calimehtar:
Just compare omniweb to safari, the latest version of omniweb runs the same rendering engine so the comparison is very fair. Omniweb has big, colourful, self-explantory icons in the toolbar while safari has small boxes containing smaller, obtuse, geometric icons.
[/B]

To each his own; I find Omniweb's toolbar to be gaudy and childish-like, wasting valuable vertical space, whereas Safari is lean and professional.

[mrtew]

I like brushed metal a lot, and absoluetly hate Aqua (the blue translucent striped candy colored parts for people that think Brushed is part of Aqua). If you install Max's Brushed theme you can see how nice it is when everything is brushed, the metal just doens't look that great when it's next to Aqua goo. I really hope there is an all brushed option for Panther.

[tikki]

Originally posted by wwworry:
I like metal and I am not put off by inconsistency. I am an adult.

Do you want a cookie or something?

What does that have to do with anything? are you trying to imply that adults do not form an opinion?

[iFix Rene]

I like brushed metal in every app BUT Finder

right now in Panther I can't tell whether its
a Finder window or my addressbook at a glance a lot of the time, coz theyre pretty similar looking