[Bunit]

While looking at Apples website for iLife '08 something stuck to me. Some of the programs still use the Aqua scroll bars, and some use the new ones being used in iTunes 7, or at least the pictures show them using them. iPhoto uses the new style for instance, while iDVD continues to use Aqua.

[Mediaman_12]

I suspect the ones using iTunes like scroll bars are embedded in to the app, while the ones using 'Aqua' ones, are using the OS widgets.

[jamiemcf]

Originally Posted by Mediaman_12 

I suspect the ones using iTunes like scroll bars are embedded in to the app, while the ones using 'Aqua' ones, are using the OS widgets.

Yeh but why?

[MacosNerd]

Good question, even with OSX they seem to keep changing the look and not doing it completely consistently. I suppose I've gotten used to it but the brushed metal, aqua interface that prior versions of OSX really was questionable. Pick one or the other theme not both. I think Leopard is a move in the right direction there, at least I hope it is.

[Moonray]

Consistency in user interface layout was once one of Apple’s big paradigms. They broke it more and more in OS X (Aqua, brushed metal, pro-app look, “unified” appearance, ...) telling about enhancements in user experience or whatever. Now they start putting it all together again telling it would be more user friendly. Looks to me they have lost the ground under their feet there (or all were only means to get rid of the so proudly announced and never really loved pinstripes in the aqua appearance).

One day they’ll be back at Platinum. Wouldn't be the worst choice.

[Gee4orce]

iMove has yet another, darker set of interface widgets.

I wonder if, when running under Leopard, the interface will become more consistent ?

[rubaiyat]

I think that should be Apple can't make up their minds.

It is obvious on the hardware side as well. Just look at the new iMacs, all over aluminium with black border and Apple logo, ditched the pulsing sleep glow, which was so cool, and chucked in an old white plastic mouse just to add to the confusion.

I think with OSX they entered the world of future kitsch which Kubrick brilliantly parodied in Clockwork Orange, in the punk parent's lounge room.

I also pointed out in the Apple Forums (only to have it deleted) how the new application names like Numbers, Pages and Keynote don't align with iLife, iWork, iDVD, iPhoto etc and are nearly impossible to Google for.

Apple loooks in the mirror and loves what it sees. Especially the way the head revolves and keeps changing colors.

[Kar98]

Originally Posted by rubaiyat 

I also pointed out in the Apple Forums (only to have it deleted) how the new application names like Numbers, Pages and Keynote don't align with iLife, iWork, iDVD, iPhoto etc and are nearly impossible to Google for.

Well, the couldn't really go and call their Excel competitor "iSheet", could they?

[PaperNotes]

Originally Posted by Kar98 

Well, the couldn't really go and call their Excel competitor "iSheet", could they?

I know a joke along those lines.... "I wanna sheet on my bed!"

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Moonray 

Consistency in user interface layout was once one of Apple’s big paradigms. They broke it more and more in OS X (Aqua, brushed metal, pro-app look, “unified” appearance, ...) telling about enhancements in user experience or whatever. Now they start putting it all together again telling it would be more user friendly. Looks to me they have lost the ground under their feet there (or all were only means to get rid of the so proudly announced and never really loved pinstripes in the aqua appearance).

One day they’ll be back at Platinum. Wouldn't be the worst choice.

What does the theme/skin/aesthetic appearance of the interface have to do with the success of user interface feedback and communication, providing all of the widgets remain exactly identical?

[MacosNerd]

The same reason why some of use comb our hair, or prefer to wear clothes that match. aesthetics is important to some of us. Apple used to be very disciplined in the look and feel of an application. This leads in to better usability since all programs will operate the same way.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by MacosNerd 

The same reason why some of use comb our hair, or prefer to wear clothes that match. aesthetics is important to some of us. Apple used to be very disciplined in the look and feel of an application. This leads in to better usability since all programs will operate the same way.

Aesthetics matter to you and many others, but at the end of the day it is a tool used for doing work on.

[shinji]

Aesthetics make the work more enjoyable, even if they don't help you get it done much faster.

I don't think I get more work done in OS X than I did in Windows- but somehow I enjoy it more

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by shinji 

Aesthetics make the work more enjoyable, even if they don't help you get it done much faster.

I don't think I get more work done in OS X than I did in Windows- but somehow I enjoy it more

Agreed...

This is the so-called user experience, and this definitely has its place. I just wish people would be clear in talking about the user experience in a manner which the subject deserves rather than sort of blending it in with user interface and usability, which has a whole other set of considerations.

[TheoCryst]

Originally Posted by PaperNotes 

I know a joke along those lines.... "I wanna sheet on my bed!"

"And I wanna fork on my table!" Hehe, love that joke.

[Moonray]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

What does the theme/skin/aesthetic appearance of the interface have to do with the success of user interface feedback and communication, providing all of the widgets remain exactly identical?

Was the different scrollbar in say iTunes chosen for aesthetical ur for usability reasons? If widgets would look the same in all windows they were more easy to spot.

-

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Moonray 

Was the different scrollbar in say iTunes chosen for aesthetical ur for usability reasons? If widgets would look the same in all windows they were more easy to spot.

-

Are drivers who jump into an unfamiliar car thrown if the steering wheel looks different? Behavior and location also provide important cues too...

[mpancha]

besson3c >> The driver analogy makes sense, however Apple is the one with UI Guidelines, and I've read quite a bit on how Steve Jobs things the UI and aesthetics, and consistency play a huge role in making a good user experience. But at the end of the day, his own company's software doesn't follow his own preaching.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by mpancha 

besson3c >> The driver analogy makes sense, however Apple is the one with UI Guidelines, and I've read quite a bit on how Steve Jobs things the UI and aesthetics, and consistency play a huge role in making a good user experience. But at the end of the day, his own company's software doesn't follow his own preaching.

I hear you. I do think that they should be consistent, but the reason they are not in this case doesn't seem like a big mystery to me... They simply let their marketing department dictate these decisions. They felt that having some flashy new thing was more important than taking the more conservative approach and playing things by the book.

This isn't the only decision guided by this source either... Does anybody really think that the droplet effect in Dashboard provides any sort of useful feedback? Are users supposed to think "oh, my calculator is in water now"?

Sometimes technology is guided by business people and not engineers. This is sad but true. On the other hand, when you work purely with engineers you have an OS like Linux which is in many ways the most powerful and capable, but the least non-engineer friendly.

This is where usability design is supposed to fill in the gaps, but perhaps not everybody has figured out how to place HCIDers in between business people and engineers, and how long of a leash to issue them.

[Chuckit]

Your assumption that engineers want incredibly conservative, unadventurous software while businesspeople want fun and attractive software is flawed.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

Your assumption that engineers want incredibly conservative, unadventurous software while businesspeople want fun and attractive software is flawed.

That's not my assumption.

What I was saying that business/marketing types place different points of emphasis and have different ideas about how to sell a product, whereas engineers generally don't have much of an idea about how to sell anything, but are generally much more committed and interesting in making cool stuff that breaks technical barriers.

There is always a balance between these sorts of people in any company - including non-computer companies. I haven't yet figured out how usability people generally factor into this mix.

No absolute generalizations being made here, just tendencies and differences in mentality.

[DarkStarRed]

I would like to see Apple bring QuickTime into line to, it looks dated & out of sync. I also wish to see them creat a cocoa skin for QT so it's easier for themer's to skin... since I believe it stays has carbon imbedded app, the look of the pop-up demos on their site
for Leopard, iWork & iLife to see what I mean looks very minimalist & beautiful. You could have extra controls that are centred above the progress-bar which are visible when moused over or via menubar & would give preview, past-view, scan & maybe jog controls like in Font's. So if you had a jog-shuttle you could edit & control easily colour, sound etc.

[CharlesS]

Frankly, I kinda liked how different windows tended to look different - it made it easier to pick out the window you were looking for in things like Exposé.

[JKT]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

This isn't the only decision guided by this source either... Does anybody really think that the droplet effect in Dashboard provides any sort of useful feedback? Are users supposed to think "oh, my calculator is in water now"?

Actually, that does provide a useful visual metaphor - your dashboard widgets are made to feel as though they are floating above the desktop (they aren't dropped into the water, they dropped onto it), which emphasises the additional layer design of the dashboard. So: Flashy? Yes. Vital? No. Useless? Also no.

[DarkStarRed]

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

Frankly, I kinda liked how different windows tended to look different - it made it easier to pick out the window you were looking for in things like Exposé.

Yes but they "Apple" are meant to be making it easy for prominent windows, now iDVD & DVDplayer are grey whilst iMovie along with it's pro line are black the could have QT white! Secondly they should have very discernible icons in the titlebar of each app.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by JKT 

Actually, that does provide a useful visual metaphor - your dashboard widgets are made to feel as though they are floating above the desktop (they aren't dropped into the water, they dropped onto it), which emphasises the additional layer design of the dashboard. So: Flashy? Yes. Vital? No. Useless? Also no.

Valid point, I guess, it's never really conveyed what you are describing to me... maybe that in and of itself is a problem?

[Super Mario]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Valid point, I guess, it's never really conveyed what you are describing to me... maybe that in and of itself is a problem?

Yeah a massive problem. Like Beryl windows catching fire when you close them.

[besson3c]

Mario: you are welcome to quote me ever stating that that feature was useful...


Some people here really need to start thinking rather than just emoting at others. I know you want to think and believe a certain way about things (as do we all), but if you can't come up with a way to express justification for your beliefs, it isn't fair to subject others to such purely emotional response.

[Super Mario]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Mario: you are welcome to quote me ever stating that that feature was useful...

Don't remember you saying it was useless either. Just praise praise praise for Ubuntu and Beryl, which you haven't used apparently, and endless negative threads about Apple and OS X.

So what's smoking today?

[besson3c]

Mario, If you really want to know what I think about those issues, you are welcome to ask. If your incorrect assumptions about me and my beliefs are sufficient enough for you, you are also more than welcome to think what you want. It doesn't make one difference to me either way.

If you wish to continue to be abusive without at least adding something substantive worth my self-defense, just ignore me and I'll do the same... cool?