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Steve Jobs - another leave of absence (Page 2)
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besson3c
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Jan 18, 2011, 06:07 AM
 
I'm sure there is another mortal being that would be a worthy Steve Jobs replacement when his time comes. SJ has gotten a lot of things right, but he has also gotten things wrong too.
     
angelmb
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Jan 18, 2011, 06:37 AM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
I don't see much value in Facebook (attack me now).

It's ugly, poorly implemented, and not the only game in town. What I see with Facebook is something that illustrates simply how people are like sheep and just follow trends.
Facebook Now Sharing Phone Numbers and Addresses with Developers.
     
hayesk
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Jan 18, 2011, 09:23 AM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
As for Zuckerberg, to be honest, I don't see much value in him because I don't see much value in Facebook (attack me now).

It's ugly, poorly implemented, and not the only game in town. What I see with Facebook is something that illustrates simply how people are like sheep and just follow trends.
I don't deny it could be better, but it's the least bad game in town. And just as people are sheep to follow trends, people are sheep that avoid something because it's a trend. i.e. the anti-establishment people are just as shallow as the "sheep."
     
The Final Dakar
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Jan 18, 2011, 10:01 AM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
I'm sure there is another mortal being that would be a worthy Steve Jobs replacement when his time comes.
Sure there is. No idea if he/she even works at Apple, though.
     
osiris
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Jan 18, 2011, 10:27 AM
 
I hope Steve will be ok, maybe he went back to work too soon.

As for a replacement, well, I can't think of anyone except me.
"Faster, faster! 'Till the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death." - HST
     
Laminar
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Jan 18, 2011, 11:15 AM
 
Originally Posted by bstone View Post
I don't know enough about the Whipple procedure to comment. Sorry.
     
The Final Dakar
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Jan 18, 2011, 11:18 AM
 
Originally Posted by Person Man View Post
Ok then, all the comments on the internet are examples of the worst of humanity. Even the examples of the best of humanity.
Oh relax. Internet comments are notoriously horrific. If good comments do exist they're extremely well hidden.
     
freudling
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Jan 18, 2011, 02:14 PM
 
Originally Posted by hayesk View Post
I don't deny it could be better, but it's the least bad game in town. And just as people are sheep to follow trends, people are sheep that avoid something because it's a trend. i.e. the anti-establishment people are just as shallow as the "sheep."
The least bad game in town? That's your subjective opinion. My subjective opinion is that LinkedIn is the least bad game in town. But anyway.

In my case anyway, I would use Facebook, even it's a trend. But I don't like it. Thus, I don't use it not because I'm trying to avoid a trend, but because I think it's a piece of crap.
     
Phileas
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Jan 18, 2011, 03:59 PM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
It's ugly
I think the Facebook site is about as sleek as it gets. Minimal, clean, with no distractions. Zuckerberg has always understood the importance of good design.
     
besson3c
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Jan 18, 2011, 05:32 PM
 
How much do you think visual appearance affects people's decisions to use free apps like GMail, Facebook, Twitter, Linkedin, Google Docs, whatever else? How does this compare to the usability of the app, its learning curve, barriers for entry, etc.?
     
The Final Dakar
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Jan 18, 2011, 05:37 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
How much do you think visual appearance affects people's decisions to use free apps like GMail, Facebook, Twitter, Linkedin, Google Docs, whatever else? How does this compare to the usability of the app, its learning curve, barriers for entry, etc.?
MySpace.
     
besson3c
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Jan 18, 2011, 06:41 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
MySpace.

That's kind of what I was thinking, in addition to that new #1 iPhone game written by that little kid is also pretty ugly.

It suggests that people are willing to overlook all sorts of things if there is enough incentive. In terms of Facebook, it's people's friends and social curiosity that draws them, not the appearance of the app, I would think...
     
Spheric Harlot
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Jan 18, 2011, 06:54 PM
 
MySpace is dead.
     
freudling
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Jan 18, 2011, 07:47 PM
 
Originally Posted by Phileas View Post
I think the Facebook site is about as sleek as it gets. Minimal, clean, with no distractions. Zuckerberg has always understood the importance of good design.
Cool, so we disagree.

But I have to say, Zuckerberg has always understood the importance of good design? Really? So Zuckerberg is a worldly, seasoned designer? Jesus...
     
The Final Dakar
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Jan 18, 2011, 08:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
That's kind of what I was thinking, in addition to that new #1 iPhone game written by that little kid is also pretty ugly.

It suggests that people are willing to overlook all sorts of things if there is enough incentive. In terms of Facebook, it's people's friends and social curiosity that draws them, not the appearance of the app, I would think...

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
MySpace is dead.
That was my point.
     
Laminar
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Jan 18, 2011, 08:39 PM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
But I have to say, Zuckerberg has always understood the importance of good design? Really? So Zuckerberg is a worldly, seasoned designer? Jesus...
Do you honestly believe that only worldly, seasoned designers understand the importance of good design? Or are you being your typical contrarian self?
     
freudling
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Jan 18, 2011, 11:45 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
Do you honestly believe that only worldly, seasoned designers understand the importance of good design? Or are you being your typical contrarian self?
Since when is Zuckerberg even a designer? A designer of anything? Should I call him up to do our next website? Should Porsche get him as the lead designer for their next rig? Should I get him to do our next user interface?

Zuckerberg is a kid with not much experience. He got lucky with Facebook. Because he was partly responsible for creating Facebook means he's a great designer? Nice logical fallacy.

"Oh my god you think Facebook is a steaming pile of #$&@! How dare you! I love Mark Zuckerberg and Facebook! Both incredible entities in this world!"

I agree with Trent Reznor:

As far as the concept goes, I don’t think it’s actually executed that well. The layout's kind of foolish and the processing is terrible, as a tool. When I see the media heralding Zuckerburg, putting him up on a pedestal of genius and mentioned in the same breathe as Steve Jobs, I highly disagree with that. He was in the right place at the right time, with a functional tool. I think if something came along doing what Facebook does and was just a lot better at it, then, well, most people use Facebook because everyone’s on Facebook but then you see how quickly Friendster and MySpace crashed.

"Arrrgh, but scr#w you and Trent Reznor, what the hell do you guys know anyway! Facebook and Zuckerberg are so cool!"

Top 10 reasons why Facebook Sucks

Facebook Hate - 72% People Agree (219,040 opinions)
     
Laminar
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Jan 19, 2011, 12:58 AM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
Since when is Zuckerberg even a designer? A designer of anything? Should I call him up to do our next website? Should Porsche get him as the lead designer for their next rig? Should I get him to do our next user interface?
Please point out where in my post I mentioned Zuckerberg.

Zuckerberg is a kid with not much experience. He got lucky with Facebook. Because he was partly responsible for creating Facebook means he's a great designer? Nice logical fallacy.
Logical fallacy? Sure, the argument that you made up (clearly not one that I made, as I didn't make any type of argument) could fall in that category.

"Oh my god you think Facebook is a steaming pile of #$&@! How dare you! I love Mark Zuckerberg and Facebook! Both incredible entities in this world!"
Why the hell does it always have to be so black and white with you? If anyone points out the tiniest flaw in your precious Tab, it's because he or she is a rabid Apple fanboy and illogically hates all things non-Apple. You can't even give an honest, reasoned response to a slight bit of criticism, you immediately jump to the straw man.

I agree with Trent Reznor:

As far as the concept goes, I don’t think it’s actually executed that well. The layout's kind of foolish and the processing is terrible, as a tool. When I see the media heralding Zuckerburg, putting him up on a pedestal of genius and mentioned in the same breathe as Steve Jobs, I highly disagree with that. He was in the right place at the right time, with a functional tool. I think if something came along doing what Facebook does and was just a lot better at it, then, well, most people use Facebook because everyone’s on Facebook but then you see how quickly Friendster and MySpace crashed.
He makes a fantastic point there at the end. Oh wait, not really.

"Arrrgh, but scr#w you and Trent Reznor, what the hell do you guys know anyway! Facebook and Zuckerberg are so cool!"
Like I said, straw man.

Ah, the most scientific of research to back your claims.

To put it in simple terms: No one here said that Zuckerberg is God. No one made that claim. No one is saying that Facebook is the epitome of web design perfection. No one thinks that.

A simple question was posed:
Do you honestly believe that only worldly, seasoned designers understand the importance of good design?
...and you launched into a wild post full of straw men. Feel free to settle down and have a real discussion like most people here are capable of.
     
imitchellg5
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Jan 19, 2011, 01:16 AM
 
Facebook is a business. Zuckerberg is a businessman. /offtopic
     
freudling
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Jan 19, 2011, 03:19 AM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
Please point out where in my post I mentioned Zuckerberg.



Logical fallacy? Sure, the argument that you made up (clearly not one that I made, as I didn't make any type of argument) could fall in that category.



Why the hell does it always have to be so black and white with you? If anyone points out the tiniest flaw in your precious Tab, it's because he or she is a rabid Apple fanboy and illogically hates all things non-Apple. You can't even give an honest, reasoned response to a slight bit of criticism, you immediately jump to the straw man.



He makes a fantastic point there at the end. Oh wait, not really.



Like I said, straw man.



Ah, the most scientific of research to back your claims.

To put it in simple terms: No one here said that Zuckerberg is God. No one made that claim. No one is saying that Facebook is the epitome of web design perfection. No one thinks that.

A simple question was posed:


...and you launched into a wild post full of straw men. Feel free to settle down and have a real discussion like most people here are capable of.
Zuckerberg is relevant. Not that Apple is considering him, but there's some press on him being a near-future candidate. My point for calling him out is that, whether anyone else agrees with me or not I don't care... if Jobs can't return, I don't want Zuckerberg designing my next iPhone, nor do I want Cook doing that.

Point: I hope Steve comes back, but if he doesn't, it's going to be hard to replace him. Come on Stevie baby, you can make it...
     
PB2K
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Jan 19, 2011, 03:35 AM
 
Facebook is the new Bubble investors demanded after the last financial crisis.

It takes considerable difficulty to make the account as private as you want it to be, private settings seem to change after every update. Same goes for LinkedIn. I see no advantage in having an account and showing who my contacts are, it simply doesn't generate extra money, but it's convenient as an online rolodex sort of thing.
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besson3c
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Jan 19, 2011, 03:36 AM
 
Where do you guys get your info on these people and their strengths and weaknesses? I mean, WTF do we know about Tim Cook? How do we know that he would be bad, or good? How do we really know much about Zuckerberg beyond the inaccurate Social Network movie, what some people might have said in interviews, and our gut feelings about him based on his past interviews and presentations?
     
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Jan 19, 2011, 05:01 AM
 
I'm sure Steve has given Apple ideas for the next 10 years at least. There's also a lot of brilliant people at Apple. As it stands I could replace Steve and you probably would only see a slight decrease in revenue but a huge increase in customer satisfaction. I'm not saying that because I'm honestly better than Steve, but because the road is sooo incredibly clear. The iPhone is the future of the company, the cloud is what will tie it all together. The home computer soon enough is going to be replaced by something you interact with far less. A sort of home media server/redundant backup, and rendering box.

As wireless networking gets faster you'll start to think of devices the way that we currently think of RAM and HDDs. Your home folder will be on your iPhone, though more than anything it'll be back home where it's safe and most likely backed up in the cloud. The carriers will try and hold this off as long as they can since it would kill their existing networks, but it'll happen.

The Apple TV will be what links your big screen to it all, and I imagine even as of next year we might start seeing it exploited as a gaming console.

The cloud for most consumers I think will first be a home cloud, a cloud that exists within the home. While many services will want to host your information out of your grasp, the fact is nobody wants to write their next great american novel on storage space they have no control over. Also not all files are small enough to make the cloud make sense. But over 802.11n and beyond style networks even editing HD video will start to seem realistic.

Your home "computer" within the next 5-10 years is going to start being your phone, your iPad, your laptop which might turn out to be a smart book by then, your Apple TV, and your mac mini server that sits in the corner which cost about 500 bucks, and is running a Core i7 processor. Odds are you won't even think of it as the computer but it's what'll run anything that your Smartbook or phone or whatever has trouble with. It'll also work as a NAS (but smarter) so that whatever content you want is available. Who knows if it'll even need a monitor.

That's the future, and the only way it won't happen is if everybody screws it up.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Jan 19, 2011, 05:02 AM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
Zuckerberg is relevant. Not that Apple is considering him, but there's some press on him being a near-future candidate.
Huh?
     
freudling
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Jan 19, 2011, 05:08 AM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
Where do you guys get your info on these people and their strengths and weaknesses? I mean, WTF do we know about Tim Cook? How do we know that he would be bad, or good? How do we really know much about Zuckerberg beyond the inaccurate Social Network movie, what some people might have said in interviews, and our gut feelings about him based on his past interviews and presentations?
Wow, is it that hard to understand? People forming impressions and opinions about others? Like, their past work, their body language, their type of friends, their behaviour, their demeaner, etc. WTF is wrong with forming opinions about people?

We all have to do it to survive. It's called inductive reasoning, and without it we'd die a thousand deaths everyday.

I think Zuckerberg is a no-talent twit. I've worked with what I consider to be some incredibly talented people that make maybe $80,000 a year and work their butts off.

But Zuckerberg is rich, and if he wasn't, people wouldn't question this statement as much I'm certain. They wouldn't be challenging people on their opinion of the person. People would just say, "Who the fu*k is Zuckerberg?"

And Tim Cook. I'm not alone in my opinion either, not that it ffing matters. Some close to him say how he's too stiff and businessy to replace Jobs. From hearing all the conference calls with him, among other things, I agree with this. We could be wrong, though, but that's what some of us think.

So who the fuxk would be a good replacement for Jobs, you ask? As much as I disagree with some of what he's done, Guy Kawasaki could be a fresh start for Apple. They need a fearless leader who will shake up industries like Jobs has. Kawasaki is one guy who comes to mind, but I also have some issues with him. He's not the perfect candidate, but someone like him.

Tim Cook is just drab and boring. "How can you say that! That's an opinion you bastxrd!"
     
freudling
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Jan 19, 2011, 05:14 AM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
Huh?
What do you mean, huh? What don't you understand?

Why Mark Zuckerberg might be Steve Jobs’ heir | VentureBeat
     
angelmb
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Jan 19, 2011, 07:03 AM
 
     
Spheric Harlot
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Jan 19, 2011, 07:12 AM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
What do you mean, huh? What don't you understand?

Why Mark Zuckerberg might be Steve Jobs’ heir | VentureBeat
I meant that I wasn't able to find a *single* article suggesting that Zuckerberg follow Steve Jobs.

And that article - that just riffs off the "Apple should buy facebook" theme (which is ridiculous IMO).
     
freudling
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Jan 19, 2011, 07:27 AM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
I meant that I wasn't able to find a *single* article suggesting that Zuckerberg follow Steve Jobs.

And that article - that just riffs off the "Apple should buy facebook" theme (which is ridiculous IMO).
Whatever.

The article begins:

Who is the next Steve Jobs? It’s a question that Apple shareholders will be looking at during their next meeting, where they’ll vote on a proposal to create a written policy on finding a new CEO.

Since Apple is so reticent to talk about its next CEO, we’ve come up with one possible answer — Facebook chief executive Mark Zuckerberg.

And ends:

We already know that Zuckerberg wants to be the next Steve Jobs. Would he turn down a chance to make that literally true?

And in between, the author provides a rationale for why Zuckerberg might want to be head of Apple. There's buzz on social media about him and Apple as well.

Anyway, enough about Zuckerberg.

Come on Stevie, get up man! Get back at it.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Jan 19, 2011, 07:41 AM
 
"Wanting to be the next Steve Jobs" is a metaphorical thing.

Sort of like "wanting to be the next Napoleon" means ambitions of power, not wanting to become Emperor of Europe and spending the last years of ones life in exile on Elba.
     
freudling
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Jan 19, 2011, 08:05 AM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
"Wanting to be the next Steve Jobs" is a metaphorical thing.

Sort of like "wanting to be the next Napoleon" means ambitions of power, not wanting to become Emperor of Europe and spending the last years of ones life in exile on Elba.
The article is about Zuckerberg being a potential CEO for Apple, and how that transition could happen. Period. I gave you that link in response to your "Huh" statement. There you go, an actual article in the world about Zuckerberg being the CEO of Apple. Moving along...
     
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Jan 19, 2011, 08:20 AM
 
Zuckerberg seems to be almost completely amoral. His attitude to privacy and other matters is indifferent at best. He would be a disaster at Apple. That article is just shooting the breeze.
This space for Hire! Reasonable rates. Reach an audience of literally dozens!
     
Spheric Harlot
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Jan 19, 2011, 09:14 AM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
The article is about Zuckerberg being a potential CEO for Apple, and how that transition could happen. Period. I gave you that link in response to your "Huh" statement. There you go, an actual article in the world about Zuckerberg being the CEO of Apple. Moving along...
"Some press" indeed.
     
freudling
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Jan 19, 2011, 01:48 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
"Some press" indeed.
Huh?
     
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Jan 19, 2011, 04:40 PM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
I think Zuckerberg is a no-talent twit.
You couldn't be more wrong if you tried.
     
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Jan 19, 2011, 05:02 PM
 
Yeah, I hate facebook too and Zuckerberg may be a lot of things, but a stupid twit he ain't.

I do like failbook though.
     
freudling
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Jan 19, 2011, 05:27 PM
 
Originally Posted by Phileas View Post
You couldn't be more wrong if you tried.
No, I'm not wrong. That's my opinion of him. Nobody cares, though, and they certainly don't care whether you like Zuckerberg or not either.

Zuckerberg is a no-talent twit. Period. That's my opinion, don't care who disagrees or agrees, makes no difference to this.
     
imitchellg5
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Jan 19, 2011, 06:12 PM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
Zuckerberg is a no-talent twit. Period. That's my opinion, don't care who disagrees or agrees, makes no difference to this.
Talent is something that can be quantified, opinions can't. It's pretty clear that at least from a business standpoint that Zuckerberg at least knows what he's doing.
     
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Jan 19, 2011, 06:17 PM
 
Originally Posted by imitchellg5 View Post
TIt's pretty clear that at least from a business standpoint that Zuckerberg at least knows what he's doing.
Really? What business is Facebook in?
     
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Jan 19, 2011, 06:23 PM
 
Originally Posted by TETENAL View Post
Really? What business is Facebook in?
It's the supplier of demographics for targeted advertising. They seem to be doing okay, with Goldman's recent offering statement reportedly claiming that Facebook's net income was $200 million in 2009 on revenue of $777 million.

Goldman Flooded With Facebook Orders - WSJ.com

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freudling
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Jan 19, 2011, 07:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by imitchellg5 View Post
Talent is something that can be quantified, opinions can't. It's pretty clear that at least from a business standpoint that Zuckerberg at least knows what he's doing.
Yes, talent can be quantified insofar as subjective measures can be applied to it. From this statement it's clear that you quantify somebody's talent by their business's or that particular person's net worth. From this measure, you could say that Zuckerberg is a "talented businessman".

I say he's lucky, and that he's a no-talent twit.

My point... this won't get you anywhere if all you use to quantify the talent of someone is through measures of wealth.

The reason? Because there's zillions of examples of people both past and present who were incredibly talented but never made much money at all and died virtually penniless.

Nikola Tesla is an example.
( Last edited by freudling; Jan 19, 2011 at 08:59 PM. )
     
Phileas
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Jan 19, 2011, 08:49 PM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
No, I'm not wrong. That's my opinion of him. Nobody cares, though, and they certainly don't care whether you like Zuckerberg or not either.

Zuckerberg is a no-talent twit. Period. That's my opinion, don't care who disagrees or agrees, makes no difference to this.
That's like saying it's your opinion that 1+1=3. You're entitled to it, but reality it ain't.
     
freudling
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Jan 19, 2011, 08:58 PM
 
Originally Posted by Phileas View Post
That's like saying it's your opinion that 1+1=3. You're entitled to it, but reality it ain't.
Yes, it is reality. But nobody cares what I think, and nobody cares what you think.
     
besson3c
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Jan 19, 2011, 11:10 PM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
Wow, is it that hard to understand? People forming impressions and opinions about others? Like, their past work, their body language, their type of friends, their behaviour, their demeaner, etc. WTF is wrong with forming opinions about people?

We all have to do it to survive. It's called inductive reasoning, and without it we'd die a thousand deaths everyday.

I think Zuckerberg is a no-talent twit. I've worked with what I consider to be some incredibly talented people that make maybe $80,000 a year and work their butts off.

But Zuckerberg is rich, and if he wasn't, people wouldn't question this statement as much I'm certain. They wouldn't be challenging people on their opinion of the person. People would just say, "Who the fu*k is Zuckerberg?"

And Tim Cook. I'm not alone in my opinion either, not that it ffing matters. Some close to him say how he's too stiff and businessy to replace Jobs. From hearing all the conference calls with him, among other things, I agree with this. We could be wrong, though, but that's what some of us think.

So who the fuxk would be a good replacement for Jobs, you ask? As much as I disagree with some of what he's done, Guy Kawasaki could be a fresh start for Apple. They need a fearless leader who will shake up industries like Jobs has. Kawasaki is one guy who comes to mind, but I also have some issues with him. He's not the perfect candidate, but someone like him.

Tim Cook is just drab and boring. "How can you say that! That's an opinion you bastxrd!"


I just don't see the point of getting all self-righteous in beliefs like this that are based on little more than your gut feeling. If you want to think that Tim Cook is stiff because of how he came across in his conference call, fine, but I certainly won't cling to and/or tether myself to such beliefs.
     
freudling
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Jan 20, 2011, 12:40 AM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
I just don't see the point of getting all self-righteous in beliefs like this that are based on little more than your gut feeling. If you want to think that Tim Cook is stiff because of how he came across in his conference call, fine, but I certainly won't cling to and/or tether myself to such beliefs.
Cool man. My friend just smelted you a medal. Where should we send it?
     
The Final Dakar
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Jan 20, 2011, 01:15 PM
 
Nobody cares about besson's opinion of where you should send it.
     
besson3c
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Jan 20, 2011, 01:19 PM
 
That's right. Even I don't care where you should send it.
     
imitchellg5
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Jan 20, 2011, 02:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
I say he's lucky, and that he's a no-talent twit.

My point... this won't get you anywhere if all you use to quantify the talent of someone is through measures of wealth.

The reason? Because there's zillions of examples of people both past and present who were incredibly talented but never made much money at all and died virtually penniless.

Nikola Tesla is an example.
Considering that Facebook has continued to increase profits and users year after year consistently with no apparent loss going to happen in sight, I'd say that's a lot more than just blind luck. I'm not quantifying talent by wealth, it's by success in your field. Facebook is an entire ecosystem with enough users to create the third largest nation on the planet. Regardless of what you think of Facebook and Zuckerberg, that's an impressive achievement.
     
freudling
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Jan 20, 2011, 03:09 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Nobody cares about besson's opinion of where you should send it.
And nobody cares about your opinion of whether people care or not.
     
freudling
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Jan 20, 2011, 03:11 PM
 
Originally Posted by imitchellg5 View Post
Considering that Facebook has continued to increase profits and users year after year consistently with no apparent loss going to happen in sight, I'd say that's a lot more than just blind luck. I'm not quantifying talent by wealth, it's by success in your field. Facebook is an entire ecosystem with enough users to create the third largest nation on the planet. Regardless of what you think of Facebook and Zuckerberg, that's an impressive achievement.
I don't look at it as an impressive achievement. Not at all. As I said before, I see it as an illustration of how people are like sheep and just follow trends. But who cares what I think, really.
     
 
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