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Steve Jobs - another leave of absence (Page 3)
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The Final Dakar
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Jan 20, 2011, 03:12 PM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
And nobody cares about your opinion of whether people care or not.
So, do you cut and paste that or type out in full every time?
     
olePigeon
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Jan 20, 2011, 03:29 PM
 
I think Tim "Captain" Cook should take over should Steve not return.
"…I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than
you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods,
you will understand why I dismiss yours." - Stephen F. Roberts
     
imitchellg5
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Jan 20, 2011, 04:35 PM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
I don't look at it as an impressive achievement. Not at all. As I said before, I see it as an illustration of how people are like sheep and just follow trends. But who cares what I think, really.
Sure, just like millions of iPhone and iPad sales are just sheeple following trends. You sound like my grandfather.
     
The Final Dakar
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Jan 20, 2011, 04:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by imitchellg5 View Post
Sure, just like millions of iPhone and iPad sales are just sheeple following trends. You sound like my grandfather.
...and the Samsung Galaxy Tab is just anti-Apple sheeple.
     
imitchellg5
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Jan 20, 2011, 04:40 PM
 
Forget specifics, having a rectangular internet connected device is just following the trend!
     
The Final Dakar
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Jan 20, 2011, 04:41 PM
 
People are only ditching newspapers because its the cool thing to do.
     
The Final Dakar
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Jan 20, 2011, 04:42 PM
 
Posting in this thread makes you cool.
     
imitchellg5
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Jan 20, 2011, 04:45 PM
 
I get all of my news from skywriters.
     
freudling
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Jan 20, 2011, 05:00 PM
 
Wow, people actually do care what I think. Go figure.
     
imitchellg5
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Jan 20, 2011, 06:02 PM
 
And nobody cares about your opinion of whether people care or not.
     
freudling
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Jan 20, 2011, 06:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by imitchellg5 View Post
And nobody cares about your opinion of whether people care or not.
And nobody cares about your opinion of whether people care or not.

I know you are but what am I!
     
besson3c
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Jan 20, 2011, 06:23 PM
 
Dakar: is that guy in your sig supposed to be Larry King?
     
The Final Dakar
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Jan 20, 2011, 06:26 PM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
I know you are but what am I!
     
Spheric Harlot
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Jan 20, 2011, 07:37 PM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
I don't look at it as an impressive achievement. Not at all. As I said before, I see it as an illustration of how people are like sheep and just follow trends. But who cares what I think, really.
So you don't think that recognizing how to create such a trend an tie enough sheep into it to make 200 million dollars a year takes a little skill and competence?

Who-Kay.
     
freudling
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Jan 20, 2011, 08:14 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
So you don't think that recognizing how to create such a trend an tie enough sheep into it to make 200 million dollars a year takes a little skill and competence?

Who-Kay.
Why do you even care what I think, anyway? It's not like it's going to matter whatever I say, you're convinced to the contrary of my position on it.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Jan 20, 2011, 08:24 PM
 
Didn't you make a show of putting me on ignore back in the other thread?
     
Laminar
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Jan 20, 2011, 09:28 PM
 
This place is awfully quiet. I suppose me putting everyone else on ignore might have something to do with it, though.
     
besson3c
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Jan 20, 2011, 09:39 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
This place is awfully quiet. I suppose me putting everyone else on ignore might have something to do with it, though.

I missed this because I have you on ignore.
     
Stogieman
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Jan 20, 2011, 09:40 PM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
Why do you even care what I think, anyway? It's not like it's going to matter whatever I say, you're convinced to the contrary of my position on it.
Nice save there dude.


Slick shoes?! Are you crazy?!
     
freudling
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Jan 20, 2011, 11:30 PM
 
Originally Posted by Stogieman View Post
Nice save there dude.

Thanks, Dude.
     
Laminar
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Jan 21, 2011, 12:21 AM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
I missed this because I have you on ignore.
I have no idea what you just said!!



Ha HA! Oh, wait...
( Last edited by Laminar; Jun 22, 2016 at 04:47 PM. )
     
besson3c
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Jan 21, 2011, 12:56 AM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
I have no idea what you just said!!



Ha HA! Oh, wait...

You love me, you just don't know it yet.
     
besson3c
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Jan 21, 2011, 01:29 AM
 
     
freudling
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Jan 21, 2011, 07:52 AM
 
Steve Jobs returning... any predictions?

Another 6 months and he'll be back like last time? Maybe he's in Switzerland looking for advanced treatments. I found it pretty concerning he wasn't on the earnings call at all. He must be really sick to not even be able to do that... I know he's on medical leave but he's still the CEO and in his words still making strategic decisions for Apple.

I know I'm not alone when I say I think about him everyday and wonder what is going on. I do hope/pray he gets better everyday I do.
     
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Jan 21, 2011, 09:25 AM
 
Steve has set everything in motion. There will not be a "next big thing for the next few years no matter what. Now is the time for Apple to cement their dominance in the mobile space, and hopefully TV. Both moves are well under way, now they need to execute.

In this sense, Apple may well perform even better with Cook calling the shots. They have a top shelf management team that can out execute anyone. So for the next 5-7 years they are in very good shape..

But in time, when that next big thing is ready to be uncovered, Steve's vision will undoubtedly be missed in a big way. Its irreplaceable, bottom line.
"Well done is better than well said." -BF
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Jan 24, 2011, 08:51 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
Didn't you make a show of putting me on ignore back in the other thread?
Everyone and his cousin has you on ignore. What of it?
I could take Sean Connery in a fight... I could definitely take him.
     
AustinAW
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Jan 25, 2011, 01:27 AM
 
if it wasn't for him apple might not be around right now, and pixar definitely wouldn't be around, i hope he can make it through this
     
Salty
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Jan 25, 2011, 11:01 PM
 
You know I think you're kind of right on there being no next big thing. Thing is though, I don't think anyone really saw the iPad coming. For months everyone else was irritated by the idea of a really big iPod touch. Now everyone wants them. I have to wonder if Steve knows of a few big hits coming that none of us can think of right now.
     
imitchellg5
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Jan 25, 2011, 11:24 PM
 
What? Everyone saw the iPad coming. An Apple tablet had been rumored for YEARS before introduction, and even more so once the iPhone and iPod touch came out.
     
Eug
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Jan 26, 2011, 12:27 AM
 
Yeah, indeed. That's one Apple product that everyone saw coming... except Salty.
     
Laminar
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Jan 26, 2011, 12:29 AM
 
There has to be a joke in there somewhere...
     
freudling
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Jan 26, 2011, 04:22 AM
 
Believe it, there are more big things. Steve's got things planned 25 years out. But if he doesn't return I just don't see Apple ever being the same/as good. Eventually, it will lose ground because it will be more comparatively wayward.

Anyway, that next big thing? Integrating computers into your body. There was some press a few months back about Steve hiring a person for Apple's augmented cognition computer system. At that point, there was like 7 people working on that very secret project.

If you don't know what augmented cognition is, check it out. It's going to make the stuff we use today look like dinosaurs. Industrial design, separated computers? Really? Blahhh, not in that near future. Your computer will be a part of you. It's coming, question is, who'll bring it to consumers first. It would likely be Apple. Without Steve, that will be stymied.

Core tech:

-Brainwave to text
-Integrated circuits into your brain
-Enterprise server/high speed data connectivity

Slow but coming along:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2X0s...eature=related
( Last edited by freudling; Jan 26, 2011 at 04:38 AM. )
     
besson3c
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Jan 26, 2011, 04:30 AM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
Believe it, there are more big things. Steve's got things planned out 25 years out. But if he doesn't return I just don't see Apple every being the same/as good. Eventually, it will lose ground because it will be more wayward.

Anyway, that next big thing? Integrating computers into your body. There was some press a few months back about Steve hiring a person for Apple's augmented cognition computer system. At that point, there was like 7 people working on that very secret project.

If you don't know what augmented cognition is, check it out. It's going to make the stuff we use today look like dinosaurs. Industrial design, separated computers? Really? Blahhh, not in that near future. Your computer will be a part of you. It's coming, question is, who'll bring it to consumers first. It would likely be Apple. Without Steve, that will be stymied.

You lionize Jobs to too great an extent, I think.

Apple is only going to get into this if there is a product to be had in there that will earn money, fit into Apple's vision and mission, and either complement Apple's existing product line or else warrant a whole other branch in their product offerings and the resources (and revenue) needed to maintain these products.

There are many companies in the business of producing consumer technology, and there are many people that can build new successful products. That you don't know of anybody with the vision that Jobs has doesn't mean that that person doesn't exist, it means that you don't know of this person. I've already made the argument that it sounds like you are already making unfair assumptions about individuals in the tech sector and their potential based on what appears to be your gut feeling.

Anybody is capable of anything, Steve Jobs is mortal, he can be replaced.
     
freudling
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Jan 26, 2011, 05:40 AM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
You lionize Jobs to too great an extent, I think.

Apple is only going to get into this if there is a product to be had in there that will earn money, fit into Apple's vision and mission, and either complement Apple's existing product line or else warrant a whole other branch in their product offerings and the resources (and revenue) needed to maintain these products.

There are many companies in the business of producing consumer technology, and there are many people that can build new successful products. That you don't know of anybody with the vision that Jobs has doesn't mean that that person doesn't exist, it means that you don't know of this person. I've already made the argument that it sounds like you are already making unfair assumptions about individuals in the tech sector and their potential based on what appears to be your gut feeling.

Anybody is capable of anything, Steve Jobs is mortal, he can be replaced.
You and your gut feelings again. Steve Jobs is demonstrably the biggest change agent in the tech industry, by a wide margin. I don't have to repeat history to you, and the past decade. Apple is now the second most valuable publicly traded company in the world, next to Exxon. And they did it with consumer technology.

And yes, I know there's many companies producing consumer tech. I like some of Sony's stuff. Some of Samsung's stuff. And some of HP's stuff. That's about it.

Most of the rest is junk. The trend is to simply copy Apple... wait for Apple to innovate and create markets, then flood it with clones.

I *really* want other companies to innovate on their own like Apple and do interesting stuff that people actually want to buy. I want Jobs to be replaceable.

Anwayz...
     
besson3c
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Jan 26, 2011, 05:50 AM
 
I agree that Jobs is great, as is Apple. I just disagree that Jobs is irreplaceable.

In addition to Jobs' strengths there are many things working in Apple's favor now. The people working around and with Jobs make him appear to be the genius he is, without them he would be nothing. There is no reason why a company can't reproduce this sort of success with the right people, the right circumstances, the right opportunities, and some cash.

Just as quickly as Apple has become the second most valuable company this can change, or they can be overtaken by somebody else. It won't happen overnight, I'm not predicting that it will happen at all, but clearly Apple is not the same company it was even 5 years ago, and 5 years ago is a relatively short amount of time for the sort of change we've seen in Apple. Change can come about quickly in technology and in the industry.

Even with a lesser visionary than Jobs with everything else working favorably good things can happen and emerge. A good example are the Android phones. They may not be as nice as the iPhone, but they have risen quickly, and Google is in a position now where competing with the iPhone is not an outlandish prospect. This has come about seemingly overnight, unless I've been living under a rock.

What is now won't always be.
     
freudling
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Jan 26, 2011, 01:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
I agree that Jobs is great, as is Apple. I just disagree that Jobs is irreplaceable.

In addition to Jobs' strengths there are many things working in Apple's favor now. The people working around and with Jobs make him appear to be the genius he is, without them he would be nothing. There is no reason why a company can't reproduce this sort of success with the right people, the right circumstances, the right opportunities, and some cash.

Just as quickly as Apple has become the second most valuable company this can change, or they can be overtaken by somebody else. It won't happen overnight, I'm not predicting that it will happen at all, but clearly Apple is not the same company it was even 5 years ago, and 5 years ago is a relatively short amount of time for the sort of change we've seen in Apple. Change can come about quickly in technology and in the industry.

Even with a lesser visionary than Jobs with everything else working favorably good things can happen and emerge. A good example are the Android phones. They may not be as nice as the iPhone, but they have risen quickly, and Google is in a position now where competing with the iPhone is not an outlandish prospect. This has come about seemingly overnight, unless I've been living under a rock.

What is now won't always be.
You just play right into my position. Apple innovates, other companies wait for market creation, then copy and jump in. I don't see Apple ever innovating like they do now without Jobs. Doesn't mean they'll go belly up without Jobs, but they won't produce the innovation we're used to. That's because Jobs is irreplaceable. Nobody is as rebellious and tyrannical as him. He changes industries like nobody else.

I don't agree with everything he has done, and I'm certainly not an Apple fanboy, but that's my take.

Moving along...
     
besson3c
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Jan 26, 2011, 01:49 PM
 
Steve Jobs doesn't innovate, he creates an environment where smart people around him can innovate. This environment is not impossible to reproduce.
     
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Jan 26, 2011, 01:59 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
This environment is not impossible to reproduce.

Not impossible, but hard. Very, very hard.
     
besson3c
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Jan 26, 2011, 02:26 PM
 
Originally Posted by Phileas View Post
Not impossible, but hard. Very, very hard.

The totality of what Apple does, definitely, but there is plenty of innovation that goes on outside of Apple. That which leads to consumer products may not include an entire widget, but integral pieces which make up that widget.
     
freudling
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Jan 26, 2011, 02:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
Steve Jobs doesn't innovate, he creates an environment where smart people around him can innovate. This environment is not impossible to reproduce.
bess, listen, I don't think you're understanding this. As much as I actually think Steve Jobs is kinda a jerk sometimes... there's things I don't like about him, he is timeless. He can out-compete the competition in any era. He's like a Wayne Gretzky.

In Gretzky's last season, after 25 years in the game, he still got almost 1 point per game...

These guys are anomalies. And yes, there's interesting, new generation people, like Sidney Crosby. But the kinds of things people like Gretzky did are staggering. I doubt anybody will ever beat 215 points in 1 season in the NHL, let alone have 4 over 200 point seasons in their career. If you don't know hockey, getting this many points is just unheard of and pretty much impossible for every other person who has ever played the game, in pretty much any league of their calibre. Doing it in the best hockey league in the world is almost unbelievable.

Consumer tech is probably the most turbulent, craziest industries of any. It moves disgustingly and relentlessly fast. There's a lot of smart people and no shortage of nerds out there and big companies competing with each other. And while they're making money, they are now just copy machines.

Steve has made them look like fools. There is a little bit of some good stuff from the competition but Apple is *the* innovator. If you don't know how Steve Jobs is essential to that innovation, I wonder how/why you've been hanging out on MacNN for so long.

But that's cool, lets move onto something else, we'll agree to disagree.
     
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Jan 26, 2011, 02:56 PM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
The trend is to simply copy Apple... wait for Apple to innovate and create markets, then flood it with clones.
Like the Galaxy Tab?

Slick shoes?! Are you crazy?!
     
imitchellg5
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Jan 26, 2011, 03:01 PM
 
You really just think that Steve Jobs was sitting in his office one afternoon in late 2006 and decided to order a few million capacitive touch screens to build a phone around? Jobs has no idea where Apple will be in 25 years because Apple is a company that carefully and precisely moves across the board. Apple spends millions, if not billions of dollars every year on R&D devices that won't ever see the light of day because they want to innovate, but they also want to do things properly. Unlike a company like HP and Dell, Apple doesn't just throw out a concept because they think people can find a niche in their life for it, they look at a piece of technology from multiple angles. For example, we know that every single PowerPC Mac has also had an Intel version, yet Apple didn't take the plunge to switch to Intel until 2005.
     
besson3c
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Jan 26, 2011, 03:13 PM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
bess, listen, I don't think you're understanding this. As much as I actually think Steve Jobs is kinda a jerk sometimes... there's things I don't like about him, he is timeless. He can out-compete the competition in any era. He's like a Wayne Gretzky.

In Gretzky's last season, after 25 years in the game, he still got almost 1 point per game...

These guys are anomalies. And yes, there's interesting, new generation people, like Sidney Crosby. But the kinds of things people like Gretzky did are staggering. I doubt anybody will ever beat 215 points in 1 season in the NHL, let alone have 4 over 200 point seasons in their career. If you don't know hockey, getting this many points is just unheard of and pretty much impossible for every other person who has ever played the game, in pretty much any league of their calibre. Doing it in the best hockey league in the world is almost unbelievable.

Consumer tech is probably the most turbulent, craziest industries of any. It moves disgustingly and relentlessly fast. There's a lot of smart people and no shortage of nerds out there and big companies competing with each other. And while they're making money, they are now just copy machines.

Steve has made them look like fools. There is a little bit of some good stuff from the competition but Apple is *the* innovator. If you don't know how Steve Jobs is essential to that innovation, I wonder how/why you've been hanging out on MacNN for so long.

But that's cool, lets move onto something else, we'll agree to disagree.

I don't think we do disagree, I just think you don't really understand my point (which is probably my fault).
     
besson3c
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Jan 26, 2011, 03:16 PM
 
Originally Posted by imitchellg5 View Post
You really just think that Steve Jobs was sitting in his office one afternoon in late 2006 and decided to order a few million capacitive touch screens to build a phone around? Jobs has no idea where Apple will be in 25 years because Apple is a company that carefully and precisely moves across the board. Apple spends millions, if not billions of dollars every year on R&D devices that won't ever see the light of day because they want to innovate, but they also want to do things properly. Unlike a company like HP and Dell, Apple doesn't just throw out a concept because they think people can find a niche in their life for it, they look at a piece of technology from multiple angles. For example, we know that every single PowerPC Mac has also had an Intel version, yet Apple didn't take the plunge to switch to Intel until 2005.

This was sort of my point. Jobs has a great feel for the industry, but he does not single-handedly pull new products out of his ass. Sometimes the execution is more challenging than the actual innovation though.
     
imitchellg5
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Jan 26, 2011, 03:29 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
This was sort of my point. Jobs has a great feel for the industry, but he does not single-handedly pull new products out of his ass. Sometimes the execution is more challenging than the actual innovation though.
IMHO, Apple doesn't really innovate in the hardware arena, they simply make incredibly sexy and useful designs. They never really have any hardware "firsts." Apple's innovation seems to stem more from a software perspective, such as iOS and the iTunes Store. It's completely different from any other company in the industry which generally doesn't do anything in software, just licenses some software to fit into their product.
     
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Jan 26, 2011, 03:33 PM
 
The next Steve Jobs is in junior high right now.
     
besson3c
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Jan 26, 2011, 03:56 PM
 
Originally Posted by imitchellg5 View Post
IMHO, Apple doesn't really innovate in the hardware arena, they simply make incredibly sexy and useful designs. They never really have any hardware "firsts." Apple's innovation seems to stem more from a software perspective, such as iOS and the iTunes Store. It's completely different from any other company in the industry which generally doesn't do anything in software, just licenses some software to fit into their product.

And there are plenty of people doing highly innovative things with software.

I think as a population we insist on wanting to assign judgment to proxies, namely the tangible front-ends we interact directly with whether this is in the form of the PR group of a company, its leader, its marketing names, etc.

Apple as a software company is nothing without its Unix based kernel and other posix components, technologies like OpenGL/CL, Quartz, zero conf networking, its network stack, and course all of the protocols used heavily: TCP/IP, http, etc.

Yes Apple is innovative, but so is/was the people that came up with these components. Just because they don't get out and interact with the public by selling widgets directly to them doesn't make them any less important, nor does it make them a lesser success. Every successful company knows its strengths. If your strengths as a company or organization are in developing these pieces that drive OS X and other operating systems, I think it is absolutely fair to label these companies as important game changing innovators.

It's also not fair to think that Apple just borrows a library here and there while all of the really impressive stuff is created in their own labs. They certainly have developed a lot of very impressive technology of their own including software, but kernel development, developing a solid TCP/IP stack, compilers, etc. is definitely *not* easy. These sorts of developers just don't get the same props as people who devise nice interfaces because the average person has no earthly clue what a kernel or compiler is.

I'm not saying that any of this is good or bad, but simply that it is foolish to think that Apple is the only innovative software vendor in the industry.
     
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Jan 26, 2011, 04:19 PM
 
Originally Posted by Stogieman View Post
Like the Galaxy Tab?
Never did I say I was against buying non-Apple products. Like I said, there are a few things out there that I like, and the Tab is one of them. As I have stated before, and is a truism, Android is a copy of iOS, and it's better in some major ways, worse in others.
     
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Jan 26, 2011, 04:20 PM
 
Anyway, people can wave their hands and pontificate all they want. Time will tell. I think only many years after Jobs is gone will we know his true impact in the world, whether that turns out to be not much for some, or a lot for others.
     
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Jan 27, 2011, 05:42 AM
 
Originally Posted by imitchellg5 View Post
IMHO, Apple doesn't really innovate in the hardware arena, they simply make incredibly sexy and useful designs. They never really have any hardware "firsts."
I have to disagree: Apple has not just made `nice designs,' they've contributed tremendously to what can be manufactured at a low price these days. From the top of my head, I can think of a few:
(1) The original iPod, for instance: the plastic front was truly unique and unlike anything the competition had to offer. Other firsts: use of 1.8" harddrives for storage, use of FireWire, etc.
(2) Ditto for unibody frames for notebooks: no other notebook comes close to the stiffness.
(3) The glass surfaces pioneered in the unibody 'books and the iPad are now ubiquitous.
(4) The iPhone 1: memos leaked by Blackberry executives show that the then industry-leader didn't think such a device was possible (with reasonable battery life).
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
     
 
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