[PMDaly]

Ok, so I've been playing world of warcraft for my 10 day trial period. I've made a couple of characters... lvl 8 NE Warrior, lvl 22 NE Rogue, lvl 17 NE Rogue and a lvl 6 UD Rogue. Yes, I like Rogues. Everything else seems boring to me. I like playing cheap... stun lock!! Anyway, I started to d/l clips of pvp action lately starting with "times up... LEEEEROOOOOY!!!... oh... oh god did he just go in? save him... stick to the plan!!" That was a great clip. I've downloaded many Rogue pvp movies b/c i'm interested in seeing how they play. I'm not a complete noob, but i'm not the best pvp guy so I need hints. The thing is, i've yet to d/l a NE Rogue replay. All the rogues i've seen have been UD... oh, and one troll. So that's 15 UD Rogues and 1 Troll Rogue. Is there a reason why all these ppl have been chosing UD instead of any other race for Rogue? Is it simply b/c of that spell immune skill? Feel free to throw in any advance. Thanks in advance.
-P

[greenamp]

Yes most rogues on horde side chose undead b/c of WoTF (will of the forsaken) racial trait, which allows undead to become immune to fear, sleep, and charm effects for 20 sec with a 3 min cooldown.

Rogue is a fun class but can be very frustrating at times. When you reach lvl 60, your pvp dominance comes to a screeching halt. And not only that, but it is very hard to find groups for end game raid content as a rogue, namely b/c rogue just isn't a necessary class to always have, and b/c there are typically a bazillion other rogues on any given server.

I have a lvl60 gnome rogue, but have lately been focusing on my alt a lvl 40 NE druid. I have more fun on my druid to be honest.

[Xidius]

Because the racial traits aren't balanced. Blizz forces anyone who wants to be affective in pvp into rolling an undead character.

I chose a troll rogue only due to my Closed Beta troll rogue preference.

Side that, I wish he was undead.

+skill to throwing, for the win!

- Xidius

[solbo]

WotF is absolutely moronic. Whoever thought that up at Blizzard obviously didn't think of the repercussions of completely negating two entire classes primary defense. Racial trait trumping class skills... game design 101 Blizzard.

Basically Undead Rogues are the cheesiest of cheese class/race combos. That is why you always see them in videos.

It is also why there are probably 10 to 1 Undead for every other horde race. Tauren probably being a distant second just because they can be Shaman and they are cows. Who doesn't love cows?

[videian28]

heh, in beta the undead had permanent fear/sleep immunity

much better now, but still overpowered

[Dave Brasgalla]

Originally Posted by videian28

heh, in beta the undead had permanent fear/sleep immunity

much better now, but still overpowered

If you think about it from a logical standpoint, they should be immune. Animated rotting corpses - with no emotions, how can they feel any fear? Not being alive, can they even sleep?

Why do they need (and why are they even capable of consuming) food and drink? Some of those guys don't even have complete mouths and throats...

Also, while I'm on the subject, shouldn't there be Undead of all races? Why only humans, or has this been explained?

[PMDaly]

Thx for the advice guys. I guess i'll try out an Undead Rogue. It's just hard to not go with NE, but I do like how the UD guys hobble around out there. I never thought why there only is UD human. I guess having UD for all races would only complicate the game further and besides... who wants an UD gnome? Maybe if it still had that funny dance i'd pick them lol. Thanks for the quick responses.
-P

[solbo]

Originally Posted by Dave Brasgalla

Also, while I'm on the subject, shouldn't there be Undead of all races? Why only humans, or has this been explained?

I think you can just assume laziness or they ran out of time. There is an Undead gnome in the Under City I think. They probably just didn't want to implement all those different models.

[greenamp]

Well, come WoW patch 1.5, it's gonna suck big time being an alliance rogue, as the orc racial trait which give them a 25% resistance to stun and knockout effects is being *fixed*. That sounds like a low number but let me tell you, in game 25% resist is HUGE.

That means, vs an orc, every time you use a cheapshot or a kidney shot it will have a 25% chance to be completely resisted. 25% chance to resist a skill a rogue heavily depends on is gonna suck big time.

Can't wait to have a 5 combo point kidney shot resisted by an orc shaman.

[greenamp]

On a side note, I think WoTF is fine. Instead of nerfing it, they should continue to buff other racial traits.
( as they seem to be doing )

[Cipher13]

Originally Posted by Dave Brasgalla

If you think about it from a logical standpoint, they should be immune. Animated rotting corpses - with no emotions, how can they feel any fear? Not being alive, can they even sleep?

Why do they need (and why are they even capable of consuming) food and drink? Some of those guys don't even have complete mouths and throats...

Also, while I'm on the subject, shouldn't there be Undead of all races? Why only humans, or has this been explained?

Fine. In that case, I expect to be able to shackle them. Pally's should be able to sense and excorsise them. Deal?

I'd be more than happy about that. If I can't fear them, I'll shackle them.

If you want the pro's, you've also gotta take a few cons.

Originally Posted by greenamp

On a side note, I think WoTF is fine. Instead of nerfing it, they should continue to buff other racial traits.
( as they seem to be doing )

You're obviously an UD Rogue.

I'm a Dwarven Priest (level 58), and I had a NE Rogue in closed beta (level 59 and 19 bubbles... didn't wanna hit 60 ).

Let me tell you now; WoTF completely destroys any chance that a priest, for example, has against a rogue.

You CS us; we use our trinket to get out of your stun. That's it gone. We fear; you're immune. 26 seconds and counting, IF you have improved psychic scream. I can tell you now... any rogue that takes 26 seconds to kill me is terrible at what they do.

IF we get our fear off, or IF we last 26 seconds, we fear you; and you dispel it with your trinket. Another 26 seconds.

It's a ridiculous situation. I say that as both a rogue and a priest.

If you doubt my credibility re. being a rogue in beta, go check out the dogcows.

WOTF needs to be nerf'd to hell. Let's compare it to the Dwarven racial, Stone Form. It makes you immune to bleed, poison, and increases armour by 5%. It also slows my movement speed to 70% (death for a caster). Where's the negative side of WOTF, which is better in every way than stoneform?

Oh, and regarding that trinket; it's the worst thing that ever happened to priests. Priests are defenseless. Our SINGLE defense mechanism, fear, is now useless.

Mages, on the other hand, can poly 3 times in any amount of time. And nova. And blink. And iceblock given the talents.

Anyway... the way I see it, Tauren Shamen and Undead Rogues are the easy way out. The noob classes.

Shamen are ridiculously godlike (though I can take them, it's because I'm good at what I do, and I know my enemy... most shamen are noobs that wanted a Godlike class, and got one, and can't use it).

Undead Rogues are similar. Majorly overpowered.

I'll tell you now though, when I'm shadow spec'd, if I ever see an UD Rogue or a Tauren Shaman... run. I will hunt you down.

Unfortunately, right now, I'm trispec, mostly Disc. Oh well. Once I get Benediction/Anathema, and my Transcendence gear, I'll respec and destroy the horde.

Oh, and before you start bitching about shadow priests... don't. Try it before you dis it. I've played every damn class in the game to at least level 25, and I've played most classes at level 60 on other peoples accounts. Any good player can take out a shadow priest, if played well; just like I can take out most classes if I play well.

[powertrippin]

Cipher's respect from me: Down.

[Arkham_c]

Undead aren't the only ones with a good racial trait.

NE have shadowmeld, which is really nice for non-rogues, and the little sprite when they die that moves faster
Dwarves have Find Treasure and Stoneform, both of which are awesome. Stoneform is the best PvE trait in the game
Tauren's have more hitpoints and War Stomp, making them the best warriors in the game
Gnomes have Escape Artist, which is great for PvP

Humans, Trolls, and Orcs all got the short end of the stick.

[powertrippin]

I prefer the paladins. When combined with the Golden Ruby crystal of Endor, it's an unbeatable combination of +5 for defense and +12 for ogres! Not to mention your trap sensing abilities have almost doubled! The only other weapon that comes close would be the embrazoned loins of Papsmear. Not only is it ultra rare and made of unobtanium, it gives you +16 for speed and +10 for stamina!

[greenamp]

Escape artist sucks for pvp. It's 1.5 second cast and is interrupted by damage, which makes it practically useless IMO.

[powertrippin]

Originally Posted by greenamp

Escape artist sucks for pvp. It's 1.5 second cast and is interrupted by damage, which makes it practically useless IMO.

Totally. And when you consider the flying namtraps have +18 to spell reversals, it's definitely a sour idea indeed. When you consider all things, the +13 mystery ability is really the most fun, one time my paladin got +84 to ogres if they gaze in a northeastern direction!

[Cipher13]

Originally Posted by powertrippin

Cipher's respect from me: Down.

EDIT: Oh. I'm slow. Sorry powertrippin'... me too, don't worry.

[Dave Brasgalla]

Originally Posted by Cipher13

Fine. In that case, I expect to be able to shackle them. Pally's should be able to sense and excorsise them. Deal?

Well, I play on an RP server, so I haven't done much PvP (although we have plenty of it). The other evening, on a whim, I got involved in repelling an attempted Stormwind raid by the Horde. I was indeed surprised that the Undead Horde players did not show up on my "scope", and that exorcise did not seem to affect them (a shame, since that is one of my very few ranged options).

Anyway, PvP aside, the topic of the Undead has been recently under discussion on my realm forum, and someone posted this information, straight from Blizzard's background materials. It explains quite a bit of what I had been wondering about, so I thought someone here might be interested.

Reprinted from Blizzard, emphasis mine:

Undead in the world of Azeroth are very different from the undead of other worlds. They are intelligent, able to communicate and prepare for battle with tactics and they are created not by magic, but through the invasion of a metaphysical plague that affects both the body and the soul. In effect, the plague is both magical and natural, affecting the living and the dead both with equal malice. It is not a necessary component in the rising of all undead, as any competent necromancer can still magically create undead. Furthermore, the blight is primarily a thing of the Scourge and is not found among the common workings of other necromancers. Undead not of the Scourge do not necessarily come from it, and undead can rise completely without any assistance from the blight.

This plague, however, works on corpses as well as living beings, reanimated the biological functions and restoring a crude "life" to uninhabited bodies. These animated corpses and plague-ridden life forms can be controlled and dominated by more powerful undead and form rudimentary social structures on their own.

Shunned by the races they once lived among, the undead join together out of solidarity and unity caused by their unhappy state. Where no one else will take them in or give them succor, other undead are willing to work with them and create a new society for undead alone. Yet as this plague rots the body it also rots the mind, instilling a lack of morality and a defiance of ordinary social customs. In short, the longer one is undead, the more evil one becomes until no trace of the original personality is left within the fallen individual.

While the plague initially turns the living into zombie-like caricatures of themselves, necromancers are quite capable of using spell-like effects to control and manipulate the disease, shifting the afflicted into a more powerful state. This shifting results in ghouls, crypt fiends, and other such beasts. Through manipulation, the necromancers engineer powerful undead minions, and new forms of mutated undead can arise at any time.

One side effect of the plague is that it blights plants, local wildlife, and other vegetative life as well as contaminates animal matter, with but a little exposure, the plague turns verdant pastures into blackened chaff. The plague is spread through such vegetable matter, communicating itself into the animal's blood system when it ingests the contaminated foodstuffs. In this manner, the plague swept through Lordaeron via infected wheat, devastating several main population centers and blackening the entire landscape.

The plague spreads easily and with devastating results. The Lich King placed a great amount of energy into artifacts known as plague cauldrons, designed to contain the energies of the plague and distribute the infection among the living. The members of the Cult of the Damned protected the cauldrons, and the plot was highly successful. Within a few months, the plague seeped across Lordaeron and contaiminated the land. This effect was known as the Scourge: the sweeping of the dead into the Lich King's hand. Soon, it will continue throughout all the lands of Azeroth, and the Scourge would represent only the beginning.

This still doesn't explain to my satisfaction how they can walk with no knees, but I guess I can just adjust...

[cheerios]

Originally Posted by Arkham_c

Undead aren't the only ones with a good racial trait.

NE have shadowmeld, which is really nice for non-rogues, and the little sprite when they die that moves faster
Dwarves have Find Treasure and Stoneform, both of which are awesome. Stoneform is the best PvE trait in the game
Tauren's have more hitpoints and War Stomp, making them the best warriors in the game
Gnomes have Escape Artist, which is great for PvP

Humans, Trolls, and Orcs all got the short end of the stick.

LOL find treasure's awesome?!? since when??? I can either find ore (hmm... important to a blacksmith?) or find treasure. I'm on ore all the way, unless I'm grinding, then it's UD.

as for stone form... only time it's useful is if I'm not gonna be running away. If I want that extra armor, I'm probably losing. since I'm losing, I proabaly wanna be running. 70% speed = death. I've killed myself a couple times like that. Only place I've seen that stone form might be useful is like the plagued zombies in WesternPlaguelands or the poison farting Abominations before the Baron in Stratholme.

and this from a lv 59 Dwarf Pali.

That said, Shadowform does kick ass. my 24 warriors escaped gankings quite a few times w/ it.

[AKcrab]

Originally Posted by Dave Brasgalla

If you think about it from a logical standpoint, they should be immune. Animated rotting corpses - with no emotions, how can they feel any fear? Not being alive, can they even sleep?

Originally Posted by Cipher13

Fine. In that case, I expect to be able to shackle them. Pally's should be able to sense and excorsise them. Deal?

I'd be more than happy about that. If I can't fear them, I'll shackle them.

If you want the pro's, you've also gotta take a few cons.

I hate my lvl 60 paladin. I've started a priest.

[greenamp]

Originally Posted by AKcrab

I hate my lvl 60 paladin. I've started a priest.

heh, I hate my lvl 60 rogue and started a druid

[powertrippin]

Do you guys realize how incredibly dorky you all sound?

[PMDaly]

Do you realize we're not trying to impress you?
-P

[powertrippin]

Originally Posted by PMDaly

Do you realize we're not trying to impress you?
-P

Obviously. But I think talking about stuff like this would affect your libido in a very negative manner.

[solbo]

Originally Posted by powertrippin

Obviously. But I think talking about stuff like this would affect your libido in a very negative manner.

I play WoW, I have a wife that plays WoW. We have sex and OMG we also talk about WoW sometimes. Actually now that I got her to play she talks about it too much

If people talking about a game bothers you, then you might want to seek professional help.

[PMDaly]

Powertrippin, It's the same as ppl obsessing over music or sports, except there's many more gamers out there than sports and music enthusiasts combined. Besides, why are you in this channel? Are you bored or insecure?
-P

[powertrippin]

OMG! +5 to scary question avoidance! My stats say that I shall use a question reversal spell and ask you why you're interested in pretending you're a paladin with +18 to flying ogres!

[PMDaly]

Clever. Please switch forums.
-P

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by powertrippin

OMG! +5 to scary question avoidance! My stats say that I shall use a question reversal spell and ask you why you're interested in pretending you're a paladin with +18 to flying ogres!

Cut your own throat, with a dull knife, slowly... but, hold on, I want to get a drink and a chair so I can relax and enjoy it.


thanks,

[::maroma::]

Originally Posted by Arkham_c

Undead aren't the only ones with a good racial trait.

NE have shadowmeld, which is really nice for non-rogues, and the little sprite when they die that moves faster
Dwarves have Find Treasure and Stoneform, both of which are awesome. Stoneform is the best PvE trait in the game
Tauren's have more hitpoints and War Stomp, making them the best warriors in the game
Gnomes have Escape Artist, which is great for PvP

Humans, Trolls, and Orcs all got the short end of the stick.

Humans have a higher ability to see stealth. Against horde rogues, that REALLY sucks. I can't tell you how many times I've been a good 50 yards away from some stinky human, and he comes charging at me as if I was standing directly on top of him. Its pretty powerful.

I am a troll rogue, and I have become pretty bored with it since being lvl 60 for a good while. Finding instance groups is nearly impossible. There are just far too many rogues. PvP is still pretty fun. I find when a rogue is played properly, they can be the most powerful PvP class in the game. Mass PvP (Hillsbrad style) is a different story for rogues though. I stick to solo or small group PvP. I have reached Legionnaire without any mass PvP.

There will always be minor imbalances between races and classes. There will always be people who prefer one playstyle over another. The key is to work around or with those differences. Adapt, adjust, whatever you gotta do. I think that's part of the fun.. figuring out how to use what you got to the best of your advantage.

FOR THE HORDE!!

[Turnpike]

Originally Posted by Cipher13

Shamen are ridiculously godlike (though I can take them, it's because I'm good at what I do, and I know my enemy... most shamen are noobs that wanted a Godlike class, and got one, and can't use it).

Wait... so... the Shaman who play their class well do well, but not so well you, who play your class well, cannot beat them? Wow, Blizz really screwed up... so imbalanced that good Shaman are a challenge for other good players but not unbeatable.

Honestly, go to the WoW forums and join in on one of the 3000 Nerf Shaman posts that also make no good points about why Shaman are overpowered in anything except 1v1, and then ignore all the posts quoting blizzard as saying the game is not balanced or intended for 1v1 PvP.

Guess what? Shaman have a tough time end-game PvP, mostly buff-bots and inferior secondary healers. Shaman aren't so hot at group PvP either, unless playing against new players or poor players who don't realize we give out the most vulnerable buff in the game.



Just go to the official shaman forums and have a decent, intelligent conversation to get you straightened out on the whole "nerf Shaman" thing... ignore all the Shaman who flame you (they get really tired of people spamming their forums with uninformed nerf posts) and listen to the ones that give good counterexamples. Better yet, just read the posts already there.

Shaman are great PvE for a while... they peak around the 40-45 range and they're no slouches early. They aren't so hot later on. Most of the people who claim Shaman are "easy mode" with their "I win button" (which is frost shock, earth shock, purge, and even some other skills, according to all the low level alts that post in the nerf threads) have no real experience with end-game shaman, and really only know that they do well in duels. WoW is not about dueling.




To the OP: really, none of the other racials available to horde rogues are any good (in comparison to WotF). There are quite a few Night Elf rogues, due to shadowmeld's passive bonus to MoD. When playing, there's a definite trend in maturity visible by race/class... I've found, horde-side, that undead rogues and warlocks are GENERALLY the least mature, although I know quite a few that are really fun to play with. I, personally, believe there is some correlation between immaturity and wanting to record your l33t pvp... since Warlocks aren't going to be able to record l33t pvp very well, that leaves it to the undead rogues.

As far as other immature combos... watch out for NE hunters, NE rogues, and paladins. Not saying don't give them a chance, but just to be cautious...

But no, there are plenty of other types of rogue. My rogue alt is human. The problem lies in the fact that WotF is just so great for PvP... and other horde racials really don't do much for rogues at all. The power gamers who want to play rogue horde (or at all) are generally undead. Videos come more from power gamers than anyone else.

It should also be noted that I play on an RP server where there are far fewer power gamers... so although they do have the greater numbers, perhaps the numbers are even more slanted if you play on a non-RP server, or more specifically on a PvP server.

[powertrippin]

Bahahahahahahaahhahhaha god I have to get stoned and read this to realize how funny this is.

[PMDaly]

Kid, just leave. No one thinks you're funny and you're not making any friends. So go on some other forum and act like an ass.
-P

[Dave Brasgalla]

Originally Posted by powertrippin

Bahahahahahahaahhahhaha god I have to get stoned and read this to realize how funny this is.

Uther would pwn you. Cry more, n00b.

[powertrippin]

yeah. The undead would kick my ass with their demon spawn spell!

This reminds me of this pathetic trekkie in my class.... a guy was making fun of her (I never did that), and she told him she hopes a klingon kicks his ass. It was so sad it was hysterical.

- Rob

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by powertrippin

yeah. The undead would kick my ass with their demon spawn spell!

This reminds me of this pathetic trekkie in my class.... a guy was making fun of her (I never did that), and she told him she hopes a klingon kicks his ass. It was so sad it was hysterical.

- Rob

Hey, asshat, if you have no interest in the game, why are you griefing the players in this thread? That only shows that you're more pathetic than they can ever be. FYI.

[powertrippin]

Yeah definitely. I'd be a lot less pathetic if I was talking about Paladins and Rogues and Flying Gnomes with )+5 to defensive gaseous poison clouds or something.

- Rob

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by powertrippin

Yeah definitely. I'd be a lot less pathetic if I was talking about Paladins and Rogues and Flying Gnomes with )+5 to defensive gaseous poison clouds or something.

- Rob

Yes, you would be less pathetic, glad you recognize that. They're talking about a game they're playing, you're a loser who has nothing better to do than to heckle them. Want to prove you're better? Go out and get a job, a GF, move out of your parent's basement, don't start flamefests on the interweb. In other words, trolls are a much lower form of life than nerds. QED.

Now, shoo, before I Moonfire spam you to hell and back.

[cheerios]

Originally Posted by MacNStein

Yes, you would be less pathetic, glad you recognize that. They're talking about a game they're playing, you're a loser who has nothing better to do than to heckle them. Want to prove you're better? Go out and get a job, a GF, move out of your parent's basement, don't start flamefests on the interweb. In other words, trolls are a much lower form of life than nerds. QED.

Now, shoo, before I Moonfire spam you to hell and back.

no no... I just got Starfire last night... 50 billion times more cool

[powertrippin]

Originally Posted by MacNStein

Yes, you would be less pathetic, glad you recognize that. They're talking about a game they're playing, you're a loser who has nothing better to do than to heckle them. Want to prove you're better? Go out and get a job, a GF, move out of your parent's basement, don't start flamefests on the interweb. In other words, trolls are a much lower form of life than nerds. QED.

Now, shoo, before I Moonfire spam you to hell and back.

Thanks but I have a job, wife, and live in a decent place, and despise dorky games with 50 billion posts in the games forum. I mean, sweet jesus, just do a search for WOW, you get shitloads of hits. If you're all that obsessed (ie, DORKS!) find a WOW forum or something.

[PMDaly]

There's a reason there's a game section of this forum...
-P

[::maroma::]

*do Not Feed The Trolls*

(and i don't mean the in-game trolls)

[powertrippin]

Sure, but we might as well rename it the WOW question forum.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by powertrippin

Thanks but I have a job, wife, and live in a decent place, and despise dorky games with 50 billion posts in the games forum. I mean, sweet jesus, just do a search for WOW, you get shitloads of hits. If you're all that obsessed (ie, DORKS!) find a WOW forum or something.

I don't believe you, if you had those things you wouldn't be wasting your time on here acting like a pr@#k towards the people who simply enjoy their games.

In other words, go away Rob, quit being such a pathetic waste of air. At this point, you'd be better off as fertilizer... much like the stuff you've been shoveling in here for the last couple days.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by cheerios

no no... I just got Starfire last night... 50 billion times more cool

nah, the 3 sec casting time is too long in PVP, you'll never get more than 2 off before the other player is handing you your ass.

[powertrippin]

If you don't believe me, sorry, but I've got plenty of proof of all that stuff back when I still posted in the lounge.

[cheerios]

Originally Posted by MacNStein

nah, the 3 sec casting time is too long in PVP, you'll never get more than 2 off before the other player is handing you your ass.

shush, my lv 59 is a paladin... let me enjoy a big woosh and lot s of dmg for a bit!

[11011001]

If this is so dorky, why did you click on the thread?

Anyways, perhaps you should try the game, then you'll understand. Till then stop spamming the thread and side tracking everyone.