[booboo]

So I have a PC Radeon (7000 PCI) with DDR which may be Mac flashable.

I have a PC and a DOS start-up disk.

But have you seen the flashrom.exe? Jeez...

It's unintelligable DOS stuff (at least to someone whose comprehension limits were stretched when it came to using FORMAT.EXE to prepare a new drive for Windoze....)

Anyone seen any instructions a Mac user can understand, or care to guide me through the process...?

[TMN]

You basically need to put the Mac Radeon 7000 ROM file in the same folder as Flashrom.

Boot into DOS, switch to the Flashrom folder by typing a command like "cd c:" then "cd flashrom". After you are in the Flashrom folder, run a command like "flashrom -i" to see the size of the flash ROM on the Radeon 7000 card and the location of the card. If the size of the flash ROM is 0x1000 then you have 64K, if it is 0x2000 then you have 128K. You need a flash ROM with 128K. Save the PC ROM on the card to a file before you flashing by typing in something like "flashrom -s 0 pcr7kddr.rom" if the location of your card is at 0. Then all you need is to flash the Mac ROM file by typing in something like "flashrom -pm 0 mac7k208.rom", just change 0 to the location of your card if it is different and change the name of the ROM file to the one you have.

[booboo]

Originally posted by TMN:
Take a look at my page at http://www24.brinkster.com/opentmp/macmyth.html

You basically need to put the Mac Radeon 7000 ROM file in the same folder as Flashrom.

Boot into DOS, switch to the Flashrom folder by typing a command like "cd c:" then "cd flashrom". After you are in the Flashrom folder, run a command like "flashrom -i" to see the size of the flash ROM on the Radeon 7000 card and the location of the card. If the size of the flash ROM is 0x1000 then you have 64K, if it is 0x2000 then you have 128K. You need a flash ROM with 128K. Save the PC ROM on the card to a file before you flashing by typing in something like "flashrom -s 0 pcr7kddr.rom" if the location of your card is at 0. Then all you need is to flash the Mac ROM file by typing in something like "flashrom -pm 0 mac7k208.rom", just change 0 to the location of your card if it is different and change the name of the ROM file to the one you have.

Thanks, that fixed it...

[robot prom]

I was wondering if the flashing worked? Did you use the 64 or 32 meg ATI card? I'm thinking about taking the plunge, but want some reassurance before I potentially waste 50 bux.

[TMN]

Yeah, the cards work very well on the Mac after flashing. All DDR PCI cards made by Sapphire and ATI seem to work. I have a beige G3 and an ATI-built card and my 300MHz G3 plays DVD very well in OS 9 and 10.2 using the flashed Radeon 7000 PCI card. I think the Mac edition of the Radeon 7000, as well as the flashed Radeon 7000, seem to have some minor glitches, but they usually work well.

By the way, the ATI-built cards containing the original Radeon chip is better than the Radeon 7000. If you can find a DDR card of that, PCI if you need PCI, buy it and flash it.

[robot prom]

Originally posted by TMN:
By the way, the ATI-built cards containing the original Radeon chip is better than the Radeon 7000. If you can find a DDR card of that, PCI if you need PCI, buy it and flash it.

isn't the original Radeon only a 32mb card? Wouldn't that limit performance versus a 64mb card?

[TMN]

I don't think 64MB cards perform better than 32MB cards, just that some games to come may need more than 32MB of video memory, but there is no Mac PCI video cards with more than 32MB yet.

The original Radeon chip has the Charisma engine, with Texture and Lighting, which helps the card perform 3D graphics better than the Radeon 7000.

[tds]

Originally posted by TMN:
Take a look at my page at http://www24.brinkster.com/opentmp/macmyth.html

You basically need to put the Mac Radeon 7000 ROM file in the same folder as Flashrom.

Boot into DOS, switch to the Flashrom folder by typing a command like "cd c:" then "cd flashrom". After you are in the Flashrom folder, run a command like "flashrom -i" to see the size of the flash ROM on the Radeon 7000 card and the location of the card. If the size of the flash ROM is 0x1000 then you have 64K, if it is 0x2000 then you have 128K. You need a flash ROM with 128K. Save the PC ROM on the card to a file before you flashing by typing in something like "flashrom -s 0 pcr7kddr.rom" if the location of your card is at 0. Then all you need is to flash the Mac ROM file by typing in something like "flashrom -pm 0 mac7k208.rom", just change 0 to the location of your card if it is different and change the name of the ROM file to the one you have.

I have tried this several times on my Radeon 7000 but each time i get the following error: "Error: timeout 1: poll rom idle after write enable"

Anyone have some ideas?

[TMN]

So you get that message whenever you try to flash the card I take it.

Try using your Radeon 7000 card as the boot video card for your PC, take the AGP video card out (if it is an AGP card), then try and flash your Radeon 7000 card. Or get hold of a PCI video card, boot the PC up with it, with the Radeon 7000 installed, and flash the card.

Which company built your card? It has DDR memory I take it.

[tds]

Got it. I had the Radeon 7000 PCI in as the only video card. I added my AGP card back in as well and booted from that. Once I had both in, the Radeon flashed fine.

Running now in my B&W G3 just fine.
(ATI Radeon 7000 32MB DDR PCI card, btw)

Thanks for the help.

[robot prom]

TMN,

where did your webpages go?

[TMN]

robot prom, the free web space account I used was not so good so the files are not up anymore. What can I help you with?

In case people have not read it, there's a review of the Radeon 7000 PCI and comparison with the original Radeon PCI at http://www.insidemacgames.com/reviews/view.php?ID=232

The orginal PC Radeon PCI DDR is nowhere to be found and it is very unlikely that flashing the PC Radeon 7500 PCI DDR with the Apple OEM Radeon 7500 AGP ROM will work, so the Radeon 7000 PCI DDR seems like the only PCI video card at the moment (and may be the last) that we can have fun flashing.

[robot prom]

Originally posted by TMN:
robot prom, the free web space account I used was not so good so the files are not up anymore. What can I help you with?

I needed the ROMs and instructions for flashing a Radeon PCI. I've decided to hunt down an original Radeon PCI instead of going with the 7000 PCI for my second monitor.

thanks!

[TMN]

robot prom, good luck with finding that card. It's probably not easy to find it. Send me an email so I can send you the ROM files and the flashing program (can't send attachments by emailing through the forums).

[TMN]

robot prom, in replying to your email, I don't think the Radeon all-in-wonders card will work. But I am no expert, so can't be sure. I know the PC Radeon PCI DDR cards are not easy to find. The Radeon 7000 PCI DDR are alright in comparison to the original Radeon. Most of the problems with the Radeon 7000 have been worked out anyway.

[proteque]

I tried and failed. got poll rom idle AFTER bulk erase. so I guess the card is ready for trashing?

[booboo]

Originally posted by proteque:
I tried and failed. got poll rom idle AFTER bulk erase. so I guess the card is ready for trashing?

What did the flashrom utility report about the card... i.e how much ROM, etc., and what are the spec's on the card...

[Scotttheking]

Pirating is illegal

[proteque]

it said romsize 0x20000 now. dID 5154 DDR64

it is 32mb DDR. Saphire type.

[booboo]

Originally posted by Scotttheking:
Pirating is illegal

????

[booboo]

Originally posted by proteque:

it is 32mb DDR. Saphire type.

I have just ordered a Sapphire 32MB DDR PCI with the intention of flashing. Should be with me tomorrow.

I'll let you know...

[Scotttheking]

Originally posted by booboo:
????

Flashing a PC video card to make it a mac card is pirating.

[drHo]

TMN

I have the original PCI Radeon Mac Edition 32mb DDR. guess its the best i can do for my b&W...people have overclocked them. do u happen to know how to come about this? i want to squeze out as much as i cant out of this card

BTW
U mentioned flashing a PC 7500 PCI 64mb card. has it ever been tried? that would rule! And how about Nvidia PCI cards? reason i ask is because in the PC world they have PCI 128mb DDR Geforce FX cards!!! for like 125bux! not bad at all!.. oh wait..they dont have Nvidia Fx cards for the mac yet...err...damn...but they do have 64mb Geforce4 MX440 cards for the mac...and in the PC world they also come in PCI flavors

[booboo]

Originally posted by Scotttheking:
Flashing a PC video card to make it a mac card is pirating.

Where does it say that?

[Scotttheking]

Originally posted by booboo:
Where does it say that?

All quotes are from MrNSX, an ATI employee, posting on the ars technica forums, here.
Side note: Please be aware that he is not speaking as an employee of the company, so this is "MrNSX said it", not "ATI said it".

Of course those who think they're outsmarting everyone by buying PC cards and then flashing them with Mac ROM's are only hurting the future of any further retail development by 'stealing' sales away from the Mac group.

As far as flashing goes, I'm not going to sit here and take the moral high ground by pretending that I've never pirated anything in my life. However the fact remains that nobody is forcing you to use that product. If you don't agree that it's a fair price, then don't buy it or buy a competitors product. The fact that it's more than what you're willing to pay doesn't make it ethically ok for you to work around paying for it. In many people's minds, they don't think of it as piracy since they're still outlaying cash to purchase the PC HW. However the point remains that you did not pay for the flashed ROM image, and you're not entitled to run the drivers on a non-Mac card. You should understand that you're depriving the company of its rightful profits by doing this, and that this DOES adversely affect future development of that product. (What was that company that brought 3DFX boards to the Mac? Power3D? Guess what happened when everyone started taking their drivers and ROM's and flashing cheaper PC boards?)

There's more, feel free to read the whole thread. The simple fact remains, flashing a PC video card with the Mac rom is pirating.

[booboo]

Originally posted by Scotttheking:
All quotes are from MrNSX, an ATI employee, posting on the ars technica forums, here.
Side note: Please be aware that he is not speaking as an employee of the company, so this is "MrNSX said it", not "ATI said it".
.

I think it would be more relevant to hear the official word from ATI.

Sure the Mac market is smaller, and therefore on a per-card basis, the cost of Mac driver development is higher, but on the other hand, the hardware is all pretty similar, and the 3x price of the (cheaper) Mac cards is not justified...

I consider that your allegations of piracy are your opinion, which you are entitled to, but that in point of fact this is a grey area, like recording songs from the radio... and similarly as trivial.

[Scotttheking]

Originally posted by booboo:
I think it would be more relevant to hear the official word from ATI.

Sure the Mac market is smaller, and therefore on a per-card basis, the cost of Mac driver development is higher, but on the other hand, the hardware is all pretty similar, and the 3x price of the (cheaper) Mac cards is not justified...

I consider that your allegations of piracy are your opinion, which you are entitled to, but that in point of fact this is a grey area, like recording songs from the radio... and similarly as trivial.

If you don't feel the cost is justified, then don't buy a new video card.
My statement is not an opinion, it is a fact. It is not a grey area. It's piracy, plain and simple.

Fact: Flashing a video card is pirating.
Fact: Mac video cards cost more.
Fact: You have no idea what software development and quality assurance costs.
Opinion: The video cards cost too much.

Edit: Try reading the thread I linked, especially the first half of page two...
Note the copyright stuff. Oh yeah, that's right, software piracy.

[booboo]

If you don't feel the cost is justified, then don't buy a new video card.

...Which in the long run is A Good Thing for ATI?

My statement is not an opinion, it is a fact. It is not a grey area. It's piracy, plain and simple.

Fact: Flashing a video card is pirating.
Fact: Mac video cards cost more.
Fact: You have no idea what software development and quality assurance costs.
Opinion: The video cards cost too much.

Opinion: 3x price of Radeon 7000 Mac over PC 7000's is reasonable...

Obviously this is not a fact....


Edit: Try reading the thread I linked, especially the first half of page two...
Note the copyright stuff. Oh yeah, that's right, software piracy.

I read it.

That doesn't mean I agree with your point of view.

Obviously, if ATI were so concerned, or concerned at all, they wouldn't leave the Flash utility and the ROM files publicly available.

That is my opinion.

[Scotttheking]

Originally posted by booboo:
If you don't feel the cost is justified, then don't buy a new video card.

...Which in the long run is A Good Thing for ATI?

My statement is not an opinion, it is a fact. It is not a grey area. It's piracy, plain and simple.

Fact: Flashing a video card is pirating.
Fact: Mac video cards cost more.
Fact: You have no idea what software development and quality assurance costs.
Opinion: The video cards cost too much.

Opinion: 3x price of Radeon 7000 Mac over PC 7000's is reasonable...

Obviously this is not a fact....


Edit: Try reading the thread I linked, especially the first half of page two...
Note the copyright stuff. Oh yeah, that's right, software piracy.

I read it.

That doesn't mean I agree with your point of view.

Obviously, if ATI were so concerned, or concerned at all, they wouldn't leave the Flash utility and the ROM files publicly available.

That is my opinion.

Well there is obviously no point in arguing with you. So, why are you using a mac? They cost 3X as much, at least.

Consider this a warning: Any more discussion of piracy may very well lead to a ban.

[terrancew_hod]

Consider this a warning: Any more discussion of piracy may very well lead to a ban.

I've noticed a few times when people are losing a discusson, or can't hold a decent debate, their response is 'ban them'. It just means to me that somebody needs to get those skills together...or quietly push away from the keyboard.

Reminds me of the Southpark episode with the debates with Cartman...

Still laughing,

Terrance

[booboo]

Originally posted by Scotttheking:
Well there is obviously no point in arguing with you. So, why are you using a mac? They cost 3X as much, at least.

Consider this a warning: Any more discussion of piracy may very well lead to a ban.

I didn't consider my reply to you antagonostic, or in any way advocating piracy, in fact I replied to each of your points in turn.

I am not interested in the cheapest option, per se and I have used Mac's since 1990 when - unlike today - they really were expensive.

In fact, I didn't purchase a PC 7000 instead of a Mac 7000, I purchased a PC 7000 instead of nothing. I considered that for �25 it was worth attempting to improve the graphic performance on my Beige G3, but I wouldn't - and couldn't - spend �75 on such an experiment.

Does it make you feel happier to know that I have a G4 with an ATI Radeon that is fast enough for anything I need to do, video-wise, and that the flashing exercise was just academic? Does that make any difference? It shouldn't.

As a musician, you might think I would take a hard line against so-called music 'piracy', you know, people copying songs from friends instead of buying them - something I'm sure you've never done. Hell, people even listen to the radio for free! And here in the UK we even have free radio without commercials. Imagine that!

Obviously you have to define what is piracy. Is it making several copies of a CD you bought, so you can keep a copy in your car, in your walkman, and on your iPod, piracy? I would consider this 'fair use', and so it would seem, does Apple. My point here is that there are a great many 'grey' areas, even in big business, and Apple has often supported 'fair use' which others would seek to have stamped 'illegal'.

Is piracy making a compilation CD for a friend? I'd say not. Am I not entitled to this opinion?

Say I bought my ATI 7000 for a now defunct PC. Should I relegate it to the dustbin, rather than find a home for it in my now exclusively Mac-based household? I would consider that a crime against reason, and reasonable behaviour is something I generally attempt ;-)

Is flashing a PC Radeon to be Mac compatible piracy? I think this is open to debate, and I'm sorry if you're not interested into entering into that debate, and would rather just seek to have me banned - for expressing a point of view that would seem to differ from your own 'objective' one. And just because someone else you quote thinks that this is not a grey area, still doesn't mean it isn't.

So ban me.

And don't forget to read the words contained in your constitution sometime.

[Scotttheking]

Naw, you won't be banned.

However, this thread has outlived it's usefulness.