[Phoenix1701]

Well, it's been pretty clear from the beginning that the creators of ShapeShifter want our input as themers (and theme users) on what currently unimplemented features are most important to us, so now that we have all gotten a decent idea of what the program does and doesn't do, I think it's time for a thread devoted to this discussion. (Note, however, that there's already a thread for discussing Apple bugs that ShapeShifter doesn't yet fix: http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.p...hreadid=189340)

I've already heard a few ideas tossed around in other threads, and I'll add a few of my own priorities here, so here's the list so far:

The Interface
I'm not sure the interface in this version is really up to the task. I agree with the sentiment I heard expressed that having both highlighting (of a row in the list view) and selection (of the radio button associated with that row) trigger changes is confusing and overly complex. I see nothing wrong with the way other theme changers have done it in the past -- the highlight is the selection, but the theme does not get applied until the "Apply" button is clicked. SS's interface might make more sense if the Apply button had been removed in favor of an immediate switch when selected (if this feature is added in the future it would entirely obviate the need for a Preview button anyway), but since the interface model is essentially the same adding this layer of complexity is really not necessary.

Theme Switcher Legacy
I've also noticed that SS has some behaviors that seem to be a carry-over from the theme switchers of yore (being defined here as last Monday). For example, SS still does not apply new themes to open applications until they are quit and relaunched. This has likely gone from being a limitation of the system's theming engine to being a limitation of the APE framework, but I have more faith in Unsanity's ability to fix it than I did in Apple's desire to try.
Also, though none of the themes distributed with SS have more than one variation, I notice that SS does not affect the Appearance variation popup menu in the Appearance preference pane, potentially opening up the possibility of using it to switch between variations of the current theme. My personal take on this is that such switching should not take place in a system-installed preference pane, and should instead be done entirely from within SS; one way to represent this fact to users might be to disable the Appearance variation popup entirely when a non-DLTA theme is in use.
Lastly, as mentioned before, the entire notion of a theme preview seems outdated. Switching a theme in memory takes so little time that there's little to lose by just applying the theme outright, though this would require that themes be applied to running applications on-the-fly.

Pushing the Envelope
Now we come at last to the fun stuff -- things we could never do before that SS can (hopefully) make possible. Here's a quick list:

- Moving around window widgets (goes without saying, this sort of epitomizes the limitations of OS X theming)
- Changing window shapes (think Kaleidoscope: adding window borders, various pointy bits, etc.)
- Playing with shadows (making them colored, directional, or simply not present)
- Adding grips and highlight states to scrollbar thumbs
- Adding mouseover states to everything (hey, no one said all the features had to be in good taste)
- Changing the position of titlebar text
- Determining the width of said titlebar text and applying pixmaps to it at runtime so we can do things like BeOS tabs and Classic pinstripes
- Setting the system font, size, and color right in SS (rather than installing Silk and hoping the metrics for our chosen font agree well enough with Lucida Grande)
- Possible integration of (or at least quick access to) Mighty Mouse (I imagine it wouldn't be difficult to get permission for that, eh smeger?)
- Robust theming of menus and menu items, � la Desktopper.net's menu theming hacks -- possibly with additional functionality like gradient overlays or borders

I'm sure some of you will have other ideas -- feel free to post them, and consider these just inspiration. There are entire aspects of the interface (like separate "pressed" and "pulsing" states for default buttons) that I'm forgetting.

Also, and I'm probably going to take some flame for this, don't worry about backwards-compatibility. It's great that SS can work with DLTAs right now, and I think that's important until all our favorite themes are SS-native, but the moment you start adding features like movable widgets and begin allowing designers to explicitly dictate which pixmaps should tile and which should stretch and so on, you will no longer be able to strip all that information out and still have a usable theme. That's fine. Don't bother trying. The Macintosh community dealt with the fact that Kaleidoscope was shareware, they will deal with the fact that SS is shareware, and regardless of how much grumbling there is about that it's not worth holding OS X theming back in the stone age because some people won't (or, to be fair, can't) pony up 20 bucks for the alternative. No one is holding a gun to themers' heads forcing them to develop themes for SS instead of the native theme format, and indeed some native Mac OS 9 themes were created even after the advent of Kaleidoscope. But if SS lives up to its potential like Kaleidoscope did, it will offer so much more for a theme designer that I think the death of the Extras.rsrc will be pretty much inevitable.

[quandarry]

Originally posted by Phoenix1701:
pointy bits

Ouch!

[phillryu]

Personally I nominate these features:

-System wide icons (ditch Candybar)
-Safari icons (which opens up the possibility for all kinds of other apps, like system prefs for one)

Those two would make this oh so much more useful. I also agree with the radio buttons thing, I still can't figure out why they are so necessary. Otherwise, its cool! Can't wait for some of the more advanced themes to come out. (Omega)

What I am wondering about is, will these resource changing features slow down the switching process? I don't think APE could handle these too, could it? (Icon files, graphics, etc.)

Actually.. I guess its no different from faking an extras.rsrc, except its like doing a whole bunch of them. Neato

[memento]

I would very much like to be able to change the background color in column view (or add a picture).

I use that more than any other view and I don't like that it's always white.

If this functionality is there and I missed it, feel free to smack me upside the head and show me where it is.

[smeger]

I'm listening, I'm just not commenting. Please keep requesting.

[codywalton]

Originally posted by Phoenix1701:
various pointy bits

I like the way you said that. Very Python.

[dws]

Since there will be many themes released which include sub-themes (the updated, and wonderful, Aluminum Alloy 1.1 is a good example), the selection process will more complicated than simply clicking on a theme and applying it. I have little problem with the current method. People just have to get used to it.

It IS important to be able to preview themes prior to applying them (remember, in a few short months there will hundreds of themes available).

One change I think should be made is that the drop-down sheet that appears after a theme is applied (indicating that you really should log out/in) should be changed to automatically log out if the user hits Return. The user would have to specifically click on the Cancel button to not log out. The reason for this (not entirely necessary change) is because so many people are seeming to have difficulty with the notion that some things won't change until you've logged out/in. I think that this is a case where keeping it simple (and helping the people to experience consistent interface changes) will benefit the majority. So-called 'power users' will know why they can safely hit the Cancel button.

[codywalton]

Originally posted by memento:
I would very much like to be able to change the background color in column view (or add a picture).

yes, yes, yes... this should definately be incorporated into future SS releases. I also use column view (almost exclusively), and It's quite distracting when using darker themes, like shinobi, or bright colored themes, like EYLO.

[bbxstudio]

I agreed with the highlight+radio button in the prefpane thing originally (guess I should've said something to smeger during the past few months about that, huh) - but I'm so used to it now it's never a problem.

I won't comment on any specific features or capabilities that I know of (and I'm only told what I need to know because of my tendency to blab on like a motivational speaker on acid), but a few of the things on your list illicited evil chuckles on this end I can tell you for sure that BBX OMEGA will demonstrate something(s) you haven't seen before (whether or not that's on the list, I won't say). [[rams sweatsock in mouth and screams]]

I say keep the ideas coming I've been consistently amazed by what I've seen Smeger pull off or dismiss as 'easy' over the past few months... believe you me, ShapeShifter is destined to become our platform's Kaleidoscope (or every bit as close as we can technically get in OSX). I am so pumped about it all - anybody who delights in creating or using these things is going to be VERY happy

[zboy]

not sure how practical it would be (dont think I'd use it)...but what if SS could randomly choose a theme upon login? If you only log out/in every once in a while, maybe you could identify a few themes you'd like SS to randomly chose from. If not entire themes, maybe the color varients within a theme?

[ArcticBear]

At very least the customizability of Kaleidoscope: differently placed/sized widgets, odd sized and shaped window borders, finder window background colors/patterns (that last one was in there as a global, right?)...

This would be separate from the app, but a nice walkthrough tutorial on how to use all the different features available would help beginning theme writers (I know, ThemePark, but last I checked it wasn't finished, and there's new stuff now).

I cannot but see a zillion themes a few months down the road. Yeah, the OS is slick as it is, but back when System 7/8/9 was still the tops all you had to do was plunk a K-scheme in there and the jaws of your Windows friends would drop. Themes built for the old OS (the official theme file format of, what was it, System 8?) never had the sheer beauty of K2 schemes. Never. And how many of those ever existed? Nothing like the profusion of the KSA in its glory! (/kaleidoscopeschemeaddict)

[Mike S.]

It IS important to be able to preview themes prior to applying them (remember, in a few short months there will hundreds of themes available). [/B]

What do you base this on?

Has theme creation just become infinitely easier or is there a giant influx of themers coming in from someplace?

[ArcticBear]

Mike S.: What do you base this on? Has theme creation just become infinitely easier or is there a giant influx of themers coming in from someplace?

I would say (and did, hehe ) on a comparison to how themes following Apple's strict guidelines and format before OS X never multiplied (even though they were said, at the time, to be faster, safer, etc.) while Kaleidoscope schemes took off, even before K2 which essentially eliminated the widgets-have-to-be-here-and-this-size-only kind of barriers.

And with software tools being much more advanced and available, I'd expect more interesting effects.

[bbxstudio]

Originally posted by Mike S.:
What do you base this on?

Has theme creation just become infinitely easier or is there a giant influx of themers coming in from someplace?

While I think hundreds in a few short months is a bit of an exaggeration, I do think that a lot more people will be open to using (and therefor creating) themes thanks to ShapeShifter. I say dozens within a year, not hundreds within a few short months. BTW - creating themes hasn't gotten any easier because of ShapeShifter... a theme designer can do more now, but this added functionality actually adds a layer of complexity to theming. A good theme still takes weeks/months and a lot of trial and error to design and assemble.

[NetworkShadow]

I've got a new mockup in progress and would like to make it GUIkit exclusive when I finally make it.

[ArcticBear]

How about animations for different parts of the theme? Rollovers, yes, but your animated-gif effects for otherwise static things like menubars. Or even text! (That's not for usability, of course, but just effect). Being able to set basic text highlight and shadow properties would be nice. Some neat things were done with that.

I may just boot into OS 9 and see what other things I've forgotten about!

Theme sorting/organization idea: Also I'd like to see in the PrefPanel the listing of schemes with a three-mini-tab top: labeled: All | Author | Style. The first obviously would allow you to see all the themes available, but the other two would be user-definable categorizations. I used to set up my K-schemes with aliases in the Apple Menu to change on the fly with similar categorizations, e.g. dark, operating systems, light, scifi, metal, etc.

I doubt the process would (or should) be automatic for the last two mini-tabs, but I'd rather have control over the sorting for those anyhow. Example 1: an author whose name is listed as John Johnson in one of his themes and J. J. Johnson in another may throw it off with two categories being made. Example 2: two authors with the name name get stuck together. Or those who forget to add their name. Example 3: I'd make a "Misc Author" collection for all those who only made one theme, just to keep it tidy.

[barbarian]

My suggestions for the near term:

1. More control over positioning and shape within themes.

2. More control over text within themes. *including size and anti-aliasing control**

3. Special case theme control for the primary OS X apps (Safari, iTunes, Finder).

4. A fully documented API

5. User control over certain key elements (titlebar, scrollbars, menubar). By this I mean letting the user tweak these things. For example I'd love to be able to change the color/brightness/contrast of the active window titlebar (I like be-os style active windows). And there are some themes that I like except for one or two elements. I love the new ipod theme for example except that it has almost invisible scroll bars. It would be nice to darken them or tint them.

My suggestions for the pie in the sky future:

A complete visual theme editor in which the user can pick off elements off a window and move them around or modify them.

Complete user control over fonts/colors/brightness/contrast.

Ability to exclude certain apps.

Ability to only theme specific apps.

Import of Linux themes/ Windowshade themes/ Kaliedoscope schemes and so on.

[d4nth3m4n]

yeah, im all for the candybar ditching. i would like to have all my gui customization down to one app with one button to switch between presets. how cool would that be? on monday, i could have aa with smooth icons, on tuesday i could have titanium 6 with the g5 system icons... and so on. if you could set up presets and switch EVERYTHING with one app (ape?) and be good to go, id be in heaven. ...even to have a revet (totally) to aqua. for that i would pay the shareware fee! completely.

theme and skin a dock/cleardock and icon settings all in one!

yo
Dan.

[rhythmicmoose]

Originally posted by barbarian:
Ability to exclude certain apps.

Ability to only theme specific apps.

Might I recommend to you the "Exclude List" tab?

[Dale Sorel]

OK, here's an idea for a new "feature"

How about having SS not screw up your menubar:

Before SS:



After SS:



And don't tell me to use the Exclude tab because then the drop-down menus don't match the rest of the system.

[NetworkShadow]

Originally posted by Dale Sorel:
OK, here's an idea for a new "feature"

How about having SS not screw up your menubar:

Before SS:



After SS:



And don't tell me to use the Exclude tab because then the drop-down menus don't match the rest of the system.

Looks rather ugly both ways, but ya that is kinda annoying.

I just want App skinning built-in, like safari skins and maybe even iApps too. Like when you've got a light Safari skin on safari to match a theme on one user account, it will look like crap on another user account that's running a dark theme.

[zboy]

this is not really realted to the actual application at all...

but what about an official ShapeShifter theme registry?

[Rosyna]

Originally posted by barbarian:
My suggestions for the near term:

4. A fully documented API

What is the API everyone is blabbing about? I don't get it. What would you want it to do?

[3R1C]

Just chiming in on the finder column view background/text color thing. Its a deal breaker for me and themes.

[WICKEDfour]

Originally posted by Rosyna:
What is the API everyone is blabbing about? I don't get it. What would you want it to do?

I think what they're looking for is ThemePark, but I personally would also like to know how one can include "iFixes" and other enhancements with a GUIkit. It just seems that outside of ThemePark, the actual application used to make the "basic" parts of the theme, the information about adding icons, cursors, fonts, etc. is in the gray.

By the way Rosyna or Jason or Slava ( ), you didn't happen to see the note I made in the Unsanity blog about having mini-APE [Another Edit: read as built-in ShapeShifter abilities] extensions to do things like replace the custom metal buttons in iChat and such, did you?

[Edit: For more clarification- I'm talking about the nature of SafarIcon, replacing the Safari buttons, but using APE to do so.]

Also, a friendly reminder to get some sleep guys !

[Dale Sorel]

Originally posted by NetworkShadow:
Looks rather ugly both ways...

Hey, you better watch it! That's Max's SmoothStripes Gloss Traffic theme I'm running there

[WICKEDfour]

Okay, I thought about it some more, and I think that ShapeShifter should most definitely have a way to enable or disable certain aspects of each theme in an organized fashion. By the way, I do like the radio buttons system in SS.

I was thinking something like this, however, note that I am thinking like a power user now. This layout would be too complex for the average, casual theme user. There should therefore be a "pro" mode and a "beginner" mode for this kind of thing.

( ) = radio button, [ ] = Check box, \/ = Drop-down arrow
(I'd mock this up, but I don't have access to Photoshop atm)

\/(-)[Insert cool GUIkit name here]
\/[-]Theme (Needs better title pertaining to the "actual" theme)
\/[ ]Window Elements
[ ]Aqua Window
[ ]Metal Window
[ ]Et Cetera
[ ]Custom Text Colors
\/[ ]Other Elements
[ ]Extras.rsrc
[ ]Finder.rsrc

\/[ ]Icons
\/[ ]Folder Icons
[ ](Perhaps a big list of all of the folder icons that are in the GUIkit)
\/[ ]Toolbar Icons (haha, useless in Panther )
[ ](List of all of em)
\/[ ]Dialog Icons (I hope you know what I mean, like the yield sign in error dialogs)
[ ](You get the idea by now)

Uh, I have to go now...I'll continue later if you want me to. I just think that if the user is paying for this, they should have a significant amount of control over what elements they want enabled.

[Edit: Okay, doing this in text isn't worth it. I'll mock it up when I get home.]

[timdorr]

Here's a feature I'd like taken from WindowBlinds:

Dynamic theme colorization.

Basically, you can recolor a theme and mess with it's gamma and whatnot. It's *very* uesful and has turned themes that would have otherwise gotten deleted in some of my regulars


Also, per-app themeing would be neato burrito cool, too

[WICKEDfour]

Originally posted by timdorr:
Dynamic theme colorization.

Basically, you can recolor a theme and mess with it's gamma and whatnot. It's *very* uesful and has turned themes that would have otherwise gotten deleted in some of my regulars

Heck yes! That'd be sweet.

[timdorr]

Took me a while, but I came up with a shot to illustrate why this is an extra cool feature:



Now, things like the text colors and whatnot are probably not going to be changed in the same manner, but I think the general point is there.

[sushiism]

i laways thought apple should have put that in to osx so you could choose your scrollbar colour and such that way, wouldnt be too hard to do at all, so it would be great in ss

[NetworkShadow]

Originally posted by sushiism:
i laways thought apple should have put that in to osx so you could choose your scrollbar colour and such that way, wouldnt be too hard to do at all, so it would be great in ss

Ya you can mix your own iCal colors now, and it even makes that Aqua style checkbox the color you mixed. That would be a cool idea for OS X.

[voodoosand]

Man, I was a bit overzealous when I purchased Shape Shifter. I was under the impression that you could change the fonts and their colors through the application, regardless of which theme was being used. I read through the documentation, but I don't see that feature, and now I realize I assumed too much. Anyways, that would be a nice feature for future releases. Also, a bundle with ThemePark might be nice - I went looking for the font color functionality, but was slightly let down when I realized I needed to buy Theme Park for $20. Oh well. Otherwise, great application, does what it says (except, any SS-updated 10.2 themes have shrunken window widgets... is that normal?) and does it well.

[phillryu]

Originally posted by zboy:
this is not really realted to the actual application at all...

but what about an official ShapeShifter theme registry?

What if someone else started a cool theme site? Would that be ok too?

[fireside]

whenever i tried to install a panther only theme the finder window in jag looks aqua.

[WICKEDfour]

I was wandering through ThemePark the other day, and I realized a few things about theming.

If we have ShapeShifter, the spiffiest way to change themes, why are we still making themes the "old" way? For example, couldn't the Carbon and Cocoa button images be combined into one "section" (with the vertical stretch fill included)? I'm sure there are many more instances like this where elements could be combined.

It just seems to me that while theming application has reached a new standard, the actual theme developing is the same as it was. The only way that newbie themers (like me ) will get into theming is if the amount of resources required is simplified and reduced.

Also, Max's theme template and PS actions included with ThemePark are awesome, but couldn't ThemePark compute the transparency and mask by itself? Just a thought.

[smeger]

Originally posted by WICKEDfour:
I was wandering through ThemePark the other day, and I realized a few things about theming.

[snip]

The basic answer to all of your points is "because I haven't yet had the time to implement it". This isn't like NASA code, but it's not trivially simple stuff either. It takes awhile to write.

Example: the code that updates Jaguar themes for Panther exists in both ThemePark and (in a much less hardcore way) in ShapeShifter. The ThemePark version of this particular functionality is roughly 12,000 lines of code. This isnt' something that just gets cranked out over a weekend.

[digitaljames]

Originally posted by smeger:
Example: the code that updates Jaguar themes for Panther exists in both ThemePark and (in a much less hardcore way) in ShapeShifter. The ThemePark version of this particular functionality is roughly 12,000 lines of code. This isnt' something that just gets cranked out over a weekend.

THIS is exacty why everyone should stop whining about $20.00....it's just mindboggling....

[WICKEDfour]

Originally posted by smeger:
The basic answer to all of your points is "because I haven't yet had the time to implement it". This isn't like NASA code, but it's not trivially simple stuff either. It takes awhile to write.

Example: the code that updates Jaguar themes for Panther exists in both ThemePark and (in a much less hardcore way) in ShapeShifter. The ThemePark version of this particular functionality is roughly 12,000 lines of code. This isnt' something that just gets cranked out over a weekend.

Don't worry about it, smeger, no rush required. I just thought I'd get that out there for someone to see.

I will say that ThemePark works amazing as it is right; Max's actions are nice and slick too.

[solidfox]

The tileing of the titlebar in cocoa apps, should be strech like in carbon...

Global transparency - possibility to edit the transparency mask of all elements (i.e. the brushed metal gradient, toolbar pattern, etc.)

[timdorr]

Originally posted by smeger:
The basic answer to all of your points is "because I haven't yet had the time to implement it". This isn't like NASA code, but it's not trivially simple stuff either. It takes awhile to write.

Example: the code that updates Jaguar themes for Panther exists in both ThemePark and (in a much less hardcore way) in ShapeShifter. The ThemePark version of this particular functionality is roughly 12,000 lines of code. This isnt' something that just gets cranked out over a weekend.

I remember IBM or AT&T did some sort of research on their employees and it averaged out that one person can produce about 5-10 lines of well-documented code a day.

So, it appears you've done ~2,400 programmer-days of work

[smeger]

Originally posted by timdorr:
I remember IBM or AT&T did some sort of research on their employees and it averaged out that one person can produce about 5-10 lines of well-documented code a day.

So, it appears you've done ~2,400 programmer-days of work

Yeah, most of it was copy/paste stuff. It was more tedious than difficult.

[christianclark]

Please make ShapeShifter to theme the AboutThisMac box, Startup/Shutdown box, and LogOut box. They are Aqua.

It's stupid and retarded.

Christian

[christianclark]

Originally posted by christianclark:
Please make ShapeShifter to theme the AboutThisMac box, Startup/Shutdown box, and LogOut box. They are Aqua.
It's stupid and retarded.
Christian

By the way, BBX Omega will be so **** up if you don't correct this. If you want my $20, you will need to correct this ****. ThemeChanger will theme everything.

"Everything Changes", my ass! That's false advertising indeed.

Christian

[dws]

Originally posted by christianclark:
Please make ShapeShifter to theme the AboutThisMac box, Startup/Shutdown box, and LogOut box. They are Aqua.

It's stupid and retarded.

Christian

No, really... Tell us what you really think!!!

While I can understand why people wish a total experience, which would involve the elements Christian spoke so eloquently about; I'm firmly in the camp that believes SS should not hack system resources. One of the largest selling points of this software is that it is safe to use; which means that it is a good thing that it doesn't load until after the system has completely booted up. It is neither "stupid" nor "retarded" to design software that will satisfy the needs of the vast majority of its users.

If a future incarnation of SS allows for transparent hacking and restoring of system resources, backed by Unsanity's proven integrity, then that would be great.

Why not enjoy what you've got; instead of complaining so bitterly about software only a week old?!?

I'm thrilled to be able to theme my Mac and think that the $40 cost (SS & TP) was well worth it.

Now... If I could only figure out a way to make all text boxes in all applications behave in some similar fashion.....

[Phoenix1701]

Originally posted by christianclark:
By the way, BBX Omega will be so **** up if you don't correct this. If you want my $20, you will need to correct this ****. ThemeChanger will theme everything.

"Everything Changes", my ass! That's false advertising indeed.

Christian

You are clearly an angry, angry man. My requests to you are threefold: first, please respect the direction of this thread and don't use it to report problems that should be "corrected" in ShapeShifter. This thread is for features that should be added because they might be nice to have, not bugs or missing functionality. Second, please respect the developer of the software enough not to use profanity, make threats, and cross-post said threats and profanity across multiple threads. If you have something to say about ShapeShifter, make your point politely and, perhaps, simply email him instead. Third, please respect yourself enough not to use slurs like "retarded" and "stupid". We're not in junior high school anymore, and using personally attacking labels like that (especially when you're talking about a piece of software, an inanimate object after all) makes it sound like it's the developer you're attacking instead of the software. That's unnecessary, uncalled-for, and makes it seem like you have some major power tripping going on. I don't think you want to put yourself across like that to a large group of people over a couple of unthemed dialog boxes in your operating system.

Now then, moving right along...

[digitaljames]

Damn....and I was just gonna call him a whiny puss.....move along people. Someone didn't get their nap today....

[Anderton]

Originally posted by christianclark:
Please make ShapeShifter to theme the AboutThisMac box, Startup/Shutdown box, and LogOut box. They are Aqua.

It's stupid and retarded.

Christian

Don't like it. Don't use it. Or come with suggestions that are in a gentle way.

[NetworkShadow]

Originally posted by christianclark:
By the way, BBX Omega will be so **** up if you don't correct this. If you want my $20, you will need to correct this ****. ThemeChanger will theme everything.

"Everything Changes", my ass! That's false advertising indeed.

Christian

lol you people... "What? It doesn't do my homework too?! I'm not paying $20 if it doesn't do my homework too!"
Well good for you, just don't buy it and stop complaining about it.

You have to understand WHY SS doesn't theme those small things that you very rarely look at. First off it's an exceptable trade off for it being safe and the new flexablity themers have now with text colors and metal etc.

[Roderick]

Originally posted by NetworkShadow:
... those small things that you very rarely look at...

I log in 5-7 times a day in three different computers. That means about 15-21 times a day I have to look at the login window. Every day.

More sometimes, if work regarding different users requires that I log in and out.

And people, that something is good for the "vast majority" doesn't mean - or it shouldn't at any rate - that if you're not part of the majority, well, bad luck, you can't enjoy the ride, because we don't care about the little guy. Just about the "vast majority".

No?