[Big Mac]

Here's an interesting entry from an ISP operator that sheds some light on what happens when an individual gets subjected to a Patriot Act National Security Letter. Chilling. The Patriot Act makes this right-winger want to become a card carrying member of the ACLU.

[olePigeon]

Because 80-year-old Florida born white women are terrorists.

[Dork.]

Originally Posted by Big Mac

Here's an interesting entry from an ISP operator that sheds some light on what happens when an individual gets subjected to a Patriot Act National Security Letter. Chilling. The Patriot Act makes this right-winger want to become a card carrying member of the ACLU.

This person obviously has something to hide. Look at all the blacked-out parts of the statement! I, for one, am very suspicious of his motives. The Global War on Terror requires new tactics. Quaint concepts like warrants and due process only serve to prevent law enforcement officials from doing their jobs. We should give the Government the benefit of the doubt in these matters. After all, if we have nothing to hide, we shouldn't be afraid of the Government, no? If you can't trust the Government, who can you trust?

And why, exactly, are you bringing this up, Big Mac, while we have troops overseas fighting for Freedom? Why do you hate America and our brave men and women in the military so much?

[/over-the-top]

[Tomchu]

"Land of the Free" indeed.

[abe]

The measures indicated here are strong and that should only indicate to you the seriousness of the threat against America and the degree that our freedoms allows these threats to gain a foothold and operate.

When a person develops cancer and chemotherapy is prescribed the danger of allowing the cancer to spread and progress is the only reason a doctor would prescribe such a harsh treatment.

For it to work to eliminate the bad cells it may also affect healthy cells.

The result is worth it when the patient is able to once again resume living life as they did before the disease.

I realize there are strong medicines being used to fight this battle. And I hope the medicines are strong enough to do the job.

We must remember that disease cells and human enemies adapt and mutate over time to become stronger and to avoid the defenses erected to defeat them.

Lest they live long enough for this evolution to occur the best way to go is to eliminate them once and for all, NOW. Don't give them a chance to adapt.

[Tomchu]

That *was* sarcasm, right?

:-|

[abe]

Originally Posted by Tomchu

That *was* sarcasm, right?

:-|

Nope. I was quite serious.

If you are informed you have cancer and you are made aware of the threat to your safety and your prognosis and your treatment options you can make intelligent decisions about what is or isn't appropriate treatment for you.

If you are trying to determine the correct level of security measures to use to keep America safe, it helps to be aware of the threat.

I believe most of the people who are outraged at the story in this thread aren't.

As these folks go through life their collective logo would likely be characterized thusly:



Why?

Because they are continually surprised by current conditions. Conditions which might easily have alerted them to the possibility of subsequent actions.

So they are ignorant to the changing conditions and ignorant to what those changes might bring.

Here are their usual comments:

"I didn't know about that." "Wow! Can you believe they did that?" And etc.

[Dork.]

Usually, when you get a cancer, you get a second opinion before you get treatment. Especially if you don't trust your doctor.

[abe]

Originally Posted by Dork.

Usually, when you get a cancer, you get a second opinion before you get treatment. Especially if you don't trust your doctor.

Here's just ONE source reporting the symptoms THEY know of since 3/22/06. How many symptoms does it take for you? You often hear stories of people who finally go to the doctor after ignoring the symptoms for months. Then everyone seems surprised when the person dies four weeks after being diagnosed.

Then, there are the other brainiacs who 'reason' that if the guy had stayed away from the doctor, altogether, he would have lived til a ripe old age! "It's the doctor's fault I tell ya! Stay out of hospitals and you got nuthin to worry about."

Right.

http://www.homelandsecurityus.com/site/modules/news/

*3 April 2006: Investigation conducted by the Northeast Intelligence Network into the explosion and fire at a Tim Horton’s Coffee shop in Toronto that occurred at approximately 1:00 pm yesterday has provided some information not made public by authorities. The specific information obtained by Northeast Intelligence Network investigators located in Canada and New York casts doubt on the official explanation of the events provided by Toronto Police that the fire and explosion was caused by gasoline, and the dead man was intent on either committing suicide or causing arson to the facility. Contrary to the official explanation, there is a strong indication that the explosive substance TATP (triacetone triperoxide), also known as the Mother of Satan and a homemade and very unstable explosive was used in this blast. This is the same substance used by "the despondent" Joel Henry Hinnrichs outside of the Oklahoma University stadium on October 1, 2005 - a blast that was ruled as a "suicide" and unrelated to terrorism. **MORE**
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Top Stories: US : Terrorists Will Test American Resolve, DoD Policy Official Says
Posted by admin on 2006/4/2 6:03:33 ( )
"...the cost of training and equipping an Afghan soldier is roughly $11,000. For an Iraqi soldier or policeman the cost is $40,000. It's "well over $100,000" to depl y an American soldie

*2 April 2006: (From 3/30/06): The nature of the United States' enemies has changed, and Americans must maintain patience and will as the country fights the Long War against extremists, a top DoD policy official said here today.

Unlike past wars, the enemy today is not a nation state challenging America with military force, but rather a dispersed global network of extremist groups who use terror, propaganda and indiscriminate violence as they seek to advance their political gains, Eric S. Edelman, undersecretary of defense for policy, said at a presentation entitled "Threats, Resources and the Long War," sponsored by "Congressional Quarterly" and Dittus Communications.


COMPLETE ARTICLE

Special Reports : Sheikh Mubarak Ali Gilani: The Terrorist Behind the Curtain
Posted by Douglas J. Hagmann on 2006/4/1 3:31:48 ( )
By Douglas J. Hagmann, Directo
[email protected]

Pakistani Cleric With Terrorist Ties Slams Investigative Report – Issues Delusional Diatribe

"Now, here comes the latest aggressor, Douglas J Hagmann. In one breath he concocts so many lies that one wonders how a person with common sense can do such a thing. His statements themselves are self–contradictory, identical to his predecessor, Yusuf Bodenski." (sic)--Statement by Sheikh Syed Mubarik 'Ali Gilani LINK


His "Emesis" Sheikh Mubarak Ali Gilani

1 April 2006: The Northeast Intelligence Network, along with Internet researcher “CP,” has merited the attention and ire of Sheikh Mubarak Ali Gilani, a resident of Lahore, Pakistan, leader of the Muslims of the Americas, and the founder of the Islamic terrorist organization Jamaat al Fuqra (a position he disputes despite evidence to the contrary). Sheikh Gilani, all of the way from his digs in Lahore, Pakistan, has published a rambling diatribe accusing me and the Northeast Intelligence Network of "engaging in hate, fabricated falsehood, lies, and appalling propaganda aimed at bringing about a clash between Muslims and Christians the world over, and particularly in the United States (U.S.)." Well, "your Emesis," that’s quite a charge. In response, allow me to quote the old adage: “Me thinks thou doth protest too much.”
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Top Stories: US : 19 Indicted For Funding Terrorism
Posted by admin on 2006/3/31 5:46:51 ( )
Terrorism Funding from Dearborn, Michigan to Lackawanna, New Yor

31 March 2006: An indictment that was issued by a federal grand jury last April was unsealed Wednesday in the Eastern District of Michigan, charging 19 Arab Muslims with engaging in an international racketeering conspiracy that provided material support to the Islamic terrorist group Hezbollah. While the Islamic “cell” had its roots in Dearborn, Michigan, a suburb of Detroit and the Windsor, Ontario, Canada area, its tentacles spread throughout the U.S. and worldwide.
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Site Updates : Northeast Intelligence Network: In the Media
Posted by admin on 2006/3/30 22:02:24 ( )
31 March 2006: Douglas J. Hagmann, director of the Northeast Intelligence Network, was honored to be a guest on the Lynne Breidenbach Show on 1570 AM, WTWB in Lakeland, Florida on Thursday, March 30th. Ms. Breidenbach is a dynamic and hard-hitting radio talk show host who brings cutting-edge news and information to her listeners.

Mr. Hagmann was also a guest on nationally syndicated Coast to Coast AM with George Noory for the first hour, providing news updates on a variety of terrorism issues. Link: www.coasttocoastam.com.

The Northeast Intelligence Netwok is also excited to make its debut on shortwave radio heard worldwide. Homeland Security Weekly, an hour-long weekly show hosted by Doug Hagmann, can be heard on Frequency 15.825 on WWCR on Thursdays at 4pm Eastern.

Top Stories: US : Shoulder-Fired Missiles Pose Serious Threat to Passenger Jets
Posted by admin on 2006/3/29 23:44:36 ( )
30 March 2006: This week, ABC News World News Tonight ran a story about the possible threat of shoulder-fired missiles to commercial and passenger aircraft. In that article, reference was made to the incident involving American Airlines Flight 612 that departed from LAX last November, where the pilot reported seeing what appeared to be a rocket or missile narrowly missing his aircraft. According to official reports, it was determined that the pilot "most likely saw a hobby rocket" that posed no threat to the aircraft.

The Northeast Intelligence Network extensively investigated this incident, and determined that the official explanation was the most unlikely explanation. The results of our investigation (complete with radar images and radio transmissions) can be found HERE.

Bolstering the possibility that the LAX incident was probably NOT a model rocket is Senator Barbara Boxer who serves on the Senate Subcommittee on Aviation. Stated Boxer: "We had a scare in Los Angeles. We've been told that they cannot rule out the fact that it was a shoulder-fired missile."

Special Reports : The Al Qaeda Threat to Washington, DC
Posted by Sean Osborne on 2006/3/28 14:32:59 ( )
27 March 2006: An anonymous source has informed the Northeast Intelligence Network of a possible terrorist threat to fairly specific locations within Washington, D.C. This threat originated with an anonymous caller to the Knoxville Tennesse Police Department approximately two weeks ago. The caller identified the weapons as rocket propelled grenades, how they entered the US and where they were to be fired. According to the Knoxville PD, the caller had a “middle eastern accent”. The FBI is investigating.
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HQ Intel Alert : UK Terrorists: Smuggle Explosives in Personal Care Product Containers
Posted by admin on 2006/3/28 7:39:33 ( )
28 March 2006: A witness for the prosecution in the trial of seven al Qaeda suspects described how the terrorists planned to smuggle bomb ingredients into the UK using shampoo bottles, bottles of shaving cream and other similar containers appearing to be personal care items. Specifically, the explosive components to be smuggled were aluminum powder and ammonium nitrate. Detonators were to be smuggled separately in small electronic devices. UK al Qaeda trial background

The HQ INTEL-ALERT Private Intelligence Report identified and outlined this terrorist tactic in previous issues last year.

Stay far ahead of the media and even receive information that you would not otherwise receive by subscribing to the HQ INTEL-ALERT Private Intelligence Report. Real investigative reports conducted by seasoned investigators, and a private pipeline into law enforcement.

In the current issue:

* A detailed report on the threat to an asset of our infrastructure. Find out what the federal government is saying about this threat.

* The threat to the Chicago Loop & specifically, the Sears Tower. Suspicious incidents have been publicly downplayed, and the threat was strenuously denied by the FBI. What does a Chicago law enforcement official say in private?
Click HERE for information on how to subscribe

Site Updates : Northeast Intelligence Network Broadcast Debuts on WWCR
Posted by Douglas J. Hagmann on 2006/3/27 12:19:56 ( )
27 March 2006: The Northeast Intelligence Network is excited to announce the debut of our PODCAST on WWCR, World Wide Christian Radio in Nashville, Tennessee beginning this week. Our latest PODCAST is available HERE.

Special Reports : The Case of an Illegal Alien: Actual Investigative Details
Posted by Douglas J. Hagmann on 2006/3/27 6:22:08 ( )
27 March 2006: You hear about illegal aliens and how they effect our society. Today, you are seeing news reports of the tens of thousands who are against legislation that would make illegal immigration a felony. Most people believe that Immigration & Customs Enforcement (ICE) and other federal agencies are doing their best to handle the problem of people who are in this county illegally. Some proponents of "illegal immigration" feel that the illegal aliens in this country serve a purpose. What they DO NOT see is the other side of the argument.

I submit the following DETAILS OF AN ACTUAL INVESTIGATION that illustrate the fraudulent activities of one illegal alien, and the SHAMEFUL, LACKLUSTER RESPONSE of federal, state and local law enforcement authorities. Their lack of response has cost the citizens of the United States, and EVERY EMPLOYER in the state of New York a significant amount of money. The investigation was done for the authorities, verified to be accurate by the social security administration; nonetheless, the subject of this investigation continues to live in the U.S., collect monetary, medical and other benefits from the state of New York, and possess and use false identification documents. The following is EXTREMELY COMMON in cases of illegal aliens in the US. Unfortunately, so is the response by federal authorities.
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Top Stories: US : Photos the Major Media Will Never Publish
Posted by Douglas J. Hagmann on 2006/3/27 4:00:21 ( )
27 March 2006: You might well disagree with the U.S. policy and the war against Iraq. In America, thankfully, you have the right to show your disagreement in organized protests. The "anti-war" rally held on March 18, 2006, however, obviously went over the top - way over. Please take a good look at these images, obtained and published by Zombie.com to see the real sentiments behind the protests. These are photographs the media will never publish. Photographs from Zombie.com

Top Stories: US : Red China Attains Global Control of Ports
Posted by admin on 2006/3/27 3:14:12 ( )
Insightful article by Charles R. Smith - NewsMax.com

27 March 2006: Overlooked during America's preoccupation with the Dubai ports deal is a much more imminent threat - China's methodical campaign to gain control of global ports that are strategically positioned to support military or economic actions against the United States - a move that has gone virtually unnoticed. ARTICLE

Top Stories: US : Al Jazeera TV Plans to Air in U.S.
Posted by admin on 2006/3/26 6:09:57 ( )
26 March 2006: Despite our “wartime status,” al Jazeera, the Arabic television channel known for disseminating anti-US propaganda including messages from Osama bin Laden and other al Qaeda leaders, U.S. prisoners of war, beheadings and hostage videos, expects to launch an English-language channel inside the U.S. sometime this summer. Wadah Khanfar, the managing director of Arabic satellite channel Aljazeera, has been appointed director-general of a newly formed entity, Aljazeera Satellite Network.
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Editorials : Peace, Love and Tolerance?
Posted by admin on 2006/3/25 9:50:43 ( )
After careful observation, I personally do not see the benefits nor do I see any societal improvements that come with Islam

By Randy Taylor, Independent Analyst, Contributing Writer

25 March 2006: Abdul Rahman, a convert from Islam to Christianity faces death in Afghanistan, a country that the United States tore away from the Taliban in hopes that freedom and democracy would become a way of life for the people of that country. Muslim clerics are calling for his beheading and threatening a revolt against the Afghan government if they intercede or “cave in” to western pressure regarding this matter and the top officials at the State Department are attempting to intercede on his behalf.

The clerics claim that this is democracy, the will of the people. Seems they overlooked the freedom part.
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Top Stories: World : Trial Update: UK Terror Suspects
Posted by admin on 2006/3/25 5:58:04 ( )
Terror cell leader talked of poisoning football fans. Testimony also revealed plans to purchase a “radioactive bomb” from Russian sources

25 March 2006: Court testimony in the trial in the UK against a group of seven Muslim terrorists, underway since Tuesday, March 21, 2006 , continued yesterday.
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Top Stories: World : Rescued Hostages Snub Rescuers in Statement
Posted by admin on 2006/3/24 9:35:21 ( )
24 March 2006 "We believe that the illegal occupation of Iraq by Multinational Forces is the root cause of the insecurity which led to this kidnapping and so much pain and suffering in Iraq. The occupation must end. LINK to STATEMENT

Special Reports : In Search of the Truth
Posted by Douglas J. Hagmann on 2006/3/24 1:48:12 ( )
By Doug Hagman

“We search for the truth. We seek justice. The courts require it. The victims cry for it. And God demands it.”

24 March 2006: I have devoted my life to being an investigator and spent the last twenty years in search of the truth in whatever endeavor that was charged to me. To identify the truth in an investigation, it is necessary to obtain, review and evaluate all of the evidence. As an investigator, I can verify that he who controls the evidence controls the outcome of an investigation. There is no better working example of this axiom than the FBI’s involvement as the agency that has assumed investigative jurisdiction of every event having national implications that occurred over the last half-century. Where the FBI leaves off, the federal government picks up in the form of creating and placing “independent commissions” that are hardly independent. The political bias and disregard for the complete truth is evident, from the Warren Commission to the 9/11 Commission. With regard to the latter, have you ever wondered why an “independent” investigative body would allow a high ranking justice department official to be on the very commission that is charged with a probe that involves the justice department? At the very least, that is an unconscionable conflict of interest.
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Top Stories: US : Albany Mosque Leader Linked to al Qaeda per Classified Documents
Posted by admin on 2006/3/23 4:21:34 ( )
Mosque member arrested as he carried rifle out of mosque, possessing weapons and computer discs containing instructions on bom making

"Raise the Jihad sword ... Raise the Qu'ran with blood ... So we can bring back the freedom for ourselves and the entire people of this Earth." -Yassin Aref, Albany NY Islamic Spiritual Leader; 3 December 1999

23 March 2006: Classified documents unsealed late Tuesday in U.S. District Court indicates that Yassin Aref, spiritual leader of the Albany Mosque, repeatedly called a phone number in Syria that a FBI report indicates had been used to gather terrorist intelligence for Osama bin Laden. Aref and Mohammed Hossain, an Albany pizza shop owner and co-founder of the mosque, are in jail for their alleged involvement in a plot to make money from the sale of rocket launchers to terrorists.

The unsealed FBI report about bin Laden is heavily redacted and has no date. It states that a FBI informant admitted that during October 2001, he was approached by someone soliciting intelligence about "flight training schools, access to airports in (redacted)" and information about "how close the individual could get to an aircraft." The informant said he was instructed to provide the information to "brothers" through two phone numbers in Damascus, Syria. Federal authorities state that Yassin Aref repeatedly called one of the telephone numbers from his Albany home.
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Top Stories: World : Islamic Advocacy Group Silent on Afghan Apostasy Trial
Posted by admin on 2006/3/23 4:21:22 ( )
By Susan Jones, CNSNews.com Senior Edito

March 22, 2006: What does the Council on American-Islamic Relations have to say about the trial of an Afghan Muslim who may get the death penalty for converting to Christianity? Nothing so far, noted a conservative, pro-family group.

"Ibrahim Hooper of the Council on American-Islamic Relations so far has been silent," the Family Research Council said in an email message on Tuesday. "Hooper is usually quick to decry any anti-Muslim slight. By not speaking out against this outrageous action, CAIR is dealing with the issue," said FRC President Tony Perkins.

COMPLETE ARTICLE AT CNSNews

Editorials : Iran- The Master of Media Distraction
Posted by admin on 2006/3/22 8:21:44 ( )
Iran is the brains and the heart of Islam and is the perpetuator of Islamic terrorism worldwide

By Randy Taylor, Contributing Analyst

March 22, 2006: Every time the nuclear issue heats up and there is posturing by Iran and the United States over Iran's nuclear plans, Iran reaches into their bag of distractions and makes a play for the global media’s attention to shift the focus from the immediate threat.

Let’s see what it was this time around. Oh yes, they wanted to discuss the situation in Iraq with us. Bam, it was flashed by the media worldwide and the nuclear issue suddenly became quiet again. This will last for a couple of weeks.

As we look back, the second to last time was when there was a meeting of the IAEA where the result was to report Iran to the U.N. Security Council. Things started to heat up, Iran threatened the US as scripted and suddenly there was front page, worldwide furor over cartoons depicting the supposed prophet Mohammed in true Islamic fashion - with a bomb in his turban. It struck me as odd that the cartoons were several months old but until the Islamic state and center of global terrorism, (a/k/a) Iran, made a stink about it, the cartoons went pretty much unnoticed. But the distraction served its purpose and once again the global media shifted the focus to Islam, once again offended by being depicted in the true light by a non-Muslim when the real issue is insane Islamic criminals having nuclear arsenals.
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[lpkmckenna]

There's no evidence that the Tim Hortons suicide was terrorism. The local police and fire crew said specifically that it wasn't terrorism.

I think this "Northeast Intelligence" site is padding its main page with pseudo-news.

[abe]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna

There's no evidence that the Tim Hortons suicide was terrorism. The local police and fire crew said specifically that it wasn't terrorism.

I think this "Northeast Intelligence" site is padding its main page with pseudo-news.

If you accept the possibility of law enforcement and governmental agencies hiding, withholding or massaging information in one instance you must accept the possibility of their doing the same in this instance.

The article says this information wasn't released by the authorities. There is a possible similarity/connection to the Oklahoma University stadium blast on October 1, 2005.

The authorities would want to prevent widespread panic and vigilanteism. I can very well understand their not releasing everything they know or think about a case of possible terrorism.

How about the UNC student running down pedestrians in the Pit? That story has been downplayed as an example of possible jihadist violence, too. Correctly, in this case, I think. But we saw how messages have been controlled when it served a greater good.

WRAL.com

Related To Story

INCIDENT AT THE PIT
Authorities say Mohammed Reza Taheri-azar, 22, drove a sport utility vehicle onto the UNC-Chapel Hill campus March 3, injuring nine people. Taheri-azar told a 911 dispatcher shortly after the attack that he did it to "punish the government of the United States for [its] actions around the world."

Mohammed Taheri-Azar Faces Attempted First-Degree Murder Charges

UPDATED: 5:11 pm EST March 24, 2006

CHAPEL HILL, N.C. -- The man who told authorities he drove a SUV into a crowd of students at UNC three weeks ago appeared in court. After the hearing, family members said they are shocked by their loved one's actions and words.

Mohammed Taheri-azar, 22, appeared to laugh during a hearing earlier in the day as witnesses described the attack on the university's flagship campus.

Taheri-Azar told investigators that he drove through the crowd at the Pit, a popular gathering spot on campus, because he wanted to kill people as payback for the killing of Muslims around the world.

Laila Taheri-Azar, Mohammed's older sister, told reporters that her brother was an average guy who liked to fish and camp with his friends and he also followed NASCAR.

"Please let us echo in your ears that my brother was and always has been a kind, gentle and pure soul," she said. "His current actions and words are as much a source of shock and distress to us as they are to you."

In court Friday, family members of Taheri-Azar sat in the courtroom as four students took the stand to discuss what happened on March 3. Taheri-azar, wearing an orange prison jumpsuit, appeared to be reading the Quran during much of the hearing and seemed to laugh at times during testimony.

UNC freshman Alex Slater said he had just finished lunch that day and was walking to class when he noticed the SUV in the area.

"He rolled up right next to us and I looked inside the car and there is the driver, and he just stepped on the gas and turned the wheel," he said. "He just floored it right through the pit."
Taheri-Azar faces nine counts of attempted first-degree murder. The Orange County district attorney told WRAL he plans on sending Taheri-Azar's case to a grand jury for indictment.
Taheri-Azar is currently held at Central Prison. Officials said he is isolated from other inmates and lives alone in his cell.

[abe]

What's more, the situations which obviously AREN'T acts of terrorism are easy for a critic of law enforcement or anti-terrorism measures to criticize AFTER the fact. The people who have sworn to protect us have to do what they can to stop or prevent EVERY act of terrorism, minor and major. They don't know who, what, where or when the attempt will be made unless they have information. These laws give the good guys the info they need if they'll have any chance to head off an attack...an attack that OBL's former driver said last Sunday on 60 Minutes was sure to happen.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washing...-06-bush_x.htm

White House describes plots

The White House said Thursday that the United States and allies had disrupted at least 10 al-Qaeda terrorist plots since Sept. 11, 2001, and stopped five attempts to case targets in the United States or infiltrate the country with terrorists.

The 10 plots the White House described:

1. Mid-2002, plot to attack West Coast targets using hijacked planes. Plotters included at least one major planner of 9/11.

2. Mid-2003, plot to attack East Coast targets using hijacked planes.

3. May 2002, plot to blow up apartment buildings in USA. Jose Padilla accused of discussing explosion of "dirty bomb."

4. Mid-2004, plot involving urban targets in United Kingdom using explosives.

5. Spring 2003, plot to attack Westerners in Karachi, Pakistan.

6. 2003, plot to attack Heathrow Airport using hijacked airliners. Planning by major 9/11 figure.

7. Spring 2004, plot to conduct large-scale bombings in United Kingdom.

8. Late 2002 and 2003, plot to attack ships in Arabian Gulf.

9. 2002, plot to attack ships in Strait of Hormuz.

10. 2003, plot to attack tourist site outside USA.

[abe]

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/...n1457859.shtml

Dire Prediction From Osama's Bodyguard

April 2, 2006

(CBS) Since 9/11, our only knowledge of Osama bin Laden has come from the tapes he releases now and again. The rest is speculation.

Al Qaeda operatives who have been close to bin Laden don't give interviews on television. Until now.

60 Minutes correspondent Bob Simon traveled to Yemen, at the tip of the Arabian peninsula, to meet a man who, for a long time, was bin Laden's personal bodyguard.

Abu Jandal was the name by which he was known in al Qaeda. He is 33 years old and was with bin Laden in Afghanistan for four years, from 1996 to 2000. He did not speak to 60 Minutes to confess the errors of his ways. Abu Jandal is not a reformed terrorist. He believes today, as he did a decade ago, that al Qaeda is the way and Osama bin Laden is the man.


When he worked for bin Laden, Abu Jandal tells Simon he was often just a meter or a meter and a half away from the leader. And he was carrying two guns.

"I had my own gun, but there was also a special gun to be used if Sheikh Osama bin Laden was attacked and we were unable to save him, in which case I would have to kill him," Abu Jandal explains.

Asked under what circumstances he would have shot bin Laden, Abu Jandal said, "If he was going to be captured, Sheikh Osama preferred to be killed than to be captured."

Abu Jandal says he had eight rounds in his gun and tells Simon he was the only guard with instructions to kill bin Laden. "I was the only one who had the gun," he explains.

60 Minutes interviewed Abu Jandal for four hours, an interview that was interrupted for prayers. Simon met him in downtown Sana'a, the capitol of Yemen, and one of the purest Islamic cities in the world. The mud-brick towers in the city look like they are carved out of the surrounding hills. They hold memories of the days when Muslims ruled much of the world, memories which still drive al Qaeda today.

Abu Jandal does not fight for al Qaeda any more, at least not with a gun, and he's finding adjustment to civilian life not easy after a decade as jihadist in Bosnia, Somalia and Afghanistan.

Asked if he misses his years with al Qaeda, Abu Jandal replied: "Yes, I do miss them. I especially miss being close to Sheikh Osama bin Laden."

Abu Jandal calls bin Laden "sheikh" as a sign of respect. And he says there was one thing this man, this proponent of global terrorism, wouldn’t tolerate.

"If anyone used bad words, he was severely punished," he explains.

Abu Jandal says he once used the wrong word and was suspended from guard duty for three days.

"That's a hell of a punishment! He gave you three days off ..." Simon remarks.

"For me, it's not time off because I served God with this job. So when you deprive me of serving God, you deprive me of God’s reward," Abu Jandal replies.

On a satellite photo, Abu Jandal showed 60 Minutes where bin Laden lived inside Tarnak Farms, the compound outside Kandahar in Afghanistan. This was home to al Qaeda’s leadership before 9/11. He pointed to where al Qaeda had built tunnels in case of attack.

The American who was planning those attacks at the time was Mike Scheuer, head of the bin Laden unit at the CIA. He has never met Abu Jandal, but knows him well.

"I do think he is who he says he is," says Scheuer, referring to Abu Jandal. "What he says about events, people, al Qaeda, meshes very thoroughly with what we know, from both, from unclassified sources and from classified intelligence."

Abu Jandal says America’s best chances to kill bin Laden came and went before 9/11. Paramount among them, August 1998, right after bin Laden bombed two U.S. embassies in East Africa. The al Qaeda leaders knew the Americans would retaliate, so they left their compound at Tarnak Farms and drove north.

"There was a fork in the road. One road leading to Khost and training camps, and another one leading to Kabul," Abu Jandal recalls. "I was with Sheikh Osama in the same vehicle with three guards, so he turned to us and said, 'What do you think? Khost or Kabul?' We told him, 'Let’s just visit Kabul.' So Sheikh Osama said, 'OK, Kabul.' "

Kabul it was. The next evening, 75 American cruise missiles slammed into the training camp near Khost, the road not taken. The CIA had intelligence that bin Laden was going to be at the training camp that night.

"Kinda makes you wonder whose side God's on, doesn't it?" Scheuer says.


"Did you ever find out who betrayed Osama bin Laden that night?" Simon asks Abu Jandal.

"It was the Afghan cook," he replies.

Abu Jandal says the cook was not punished. "Sheikh Osama decided to let him go, so we let him go home. Sheikh Osama even gave him money and told him, 'Go provide for your children.' "

"Would you have liked to have killed the cook yourself?" Simon asks.

"Of course," Abu Jandal replies.

Asked how he would have done that, Abu Jandal said, "With a bullet in the head, and that would be the end of the story."

Once Abu Jandal established himself as the No. 1 bodyguard, bin Laden gave him other responsibilities as well.

In early 2000, bin Laden sent Abu Jandal back to Yemen on a sensitive mission. He told Abu Jandal that if the Taliban kicked al Qaeda out of Afghanistan they would need a new refuge, a new base of operations. Yemen would do just fine. So, bin Laden wanted a Yemeni wife. That, he said, would help him gain acceptance here. He gave Abu Jandal $5,000 in dowry money and told him to make it happen. Which Abu Jandal did.

He brokered bin Laden’s marriage to his fourth wife, a villager. She was 17 years old. Later that year, Abu Jandal just happened to be in Yemen, he says, when the USS Cole was bombed in the Yemeni port of Aden. Seventeen American sailors were killed.

Abu Jandal says he didn't know anything about the attack before it happened, saying, "these operations are very secret."

But he says he knew the people who were involved.

Asked what kind of people they were, Abu Jandal replies, "Well, they are more than excellent."

In the wake of the bombing, the Yemeni authorities rounded up the al Qaeda operatives in the country. One month later, in November 2000, Abu Jandal was arrested at Sana'a's airport.

He tells Simon he was going to Afghanistan.

Abu Jandal was thrown in prison in Sana'a. The Yemeni authorities didn't charge him with anything but they held him for almost two years, most of the time in solitary confinement. One week after 9/11, he was taken from his cell and brought to an interrogation room. He says there were three guys waiting for him there. They were from the United States, from the FBI and they had questions.

"They asked about al Qaeda's capabilities, whether it had chemical weapons labs, whether it had other operations, where are its sleeper cells," Abu Jandal recalls.

And Abu Jandal says he told the FBI he was still committed to al Qaeda.

Abu Jandal didn’t hear about 9/11 when it happened. He was in jail and only found out about it days later from his FBI interrogators.

"If you had been asked to participate in the attacks on Sept. 11, would you have done it?" Simon asks.

"At that time, yes," Abu Jandal replies.

Abu Jandal remembers seeing Mohamed Atta in Afghanistan. But he was surprised when he learned that Atta was the leader on 9/11. Atta, Abu Jandal thought, was too inexperienced for such a big job.

"What’s your reaction when you see pictures on 9/11, when you see the video of the Twin Towers and the people falling out of the windows and people dying and shouting out in pain?" Simon asks Abu Jandal.

"I compare it to the images from the bombing of a shelter in Baghdad, to the killings of Muslims in Iraq by air strikes," he replies. "It reminds me of the pictures of those missiles fired on the Iraqi people with 'Happy Ramadan' written on them."

Abu Jandal says he admires American civilization, but will fight America until it gets out of the Middle East. He was released from prison in 2002. The Yemeni government made a deal with him: don't plot against Yemen, don’t try to leave the country and we'll leave you alone.

Why did he talk to 60 Minutes? Because he can. He's proud of what al Qaeda has done and, in Yemen, is out of America's reach.


If it were up to him, Mike Scheuer says Abu Jandal would be locked up somewhere. "Anyone who is as dedicated as he is and clearly desires to be a martyr, we ought to be taking care of him one way or another."

"As far as value goes, how does he compare to most of the prisoners in Guantanamo?" Simon asks.

"Oh, I think he's probably far more important than anybody we've got in Guantanamo. Because he had direct exposure to Osama bin Laden. He’s very, very knowledgeable about the organization worldwide," Scheuer replies.

Simon asked Abu Jandal for his take on bin Laden's last audiotaped message. In January, bin Laden offered the Americans a truce. If Washington doesn't take him up on it, he said, there will be consequences.

"He made a similar proposal to the Europeans. He warned them and gave them six months," Abu Jandal says. "When there was no response, he started with the Madrid bombing, then London. So I believe Osama bin Laden is planning a new attack inside the United States. This is certain."

Asked if he is sure Osama is preparing a new attack, Abu Jandal said, "When Sheikh Osama promises something, he does it."

Abu Jandal hasn't seen bin Laden since the summer of 2000, but he says there is no question as to where he is hiding: Afghanistan.

"Not Pakistan. I know the Pakistani tribe along the border very well," says Abu Jandal. "Yes, they can be trustworthy and faithful to their religion and ideology, but they are also capable of selling information for nothing."

Abu Jandal says bin Laden would have no trouble living in the Afghan mountains. He may be a billionaire, but his lifestyle has always been Spartan, almost monastic.

"Osama bin Laden can live on bread and water. Osama bin Laden can live on dates. He is a man who prepared himself to live with the minimum available means of survival," says Abu Jandal.

Abu Jandal is aware that the Americans expect bin Laden's health to do him in. He says that's another American illusion.

"A lot of Americans think bin Laden suffers from a kidney problem and that he might even need a dialysis. When you were with him, were there any indications that he had any health problems?" Simon asks.

"Never. The only problem Sheikh Osama suffered from is with his vocal chords," Abu Jandal replies. "He was affected by missiles that contained some chemicals during the Jihad against the Soviets. Only his vocal chords were affected."

Scheuer, who now works for CBS News, agrees that bin Laden is not a bad insurance risk. If his kidneys won’t be his downfall, America's chances of getting to him are diminishing all the time.

"Your job was to get Osama bin Laden. Abu Jandal’s job was to protect Osama bin Laden. Who do you think had the tougher job?" Simon asks.

"I think he had the tougher job. Osama bin Laden should be yesterday's news," Scheuer replies. "He should have been splattered across the southern desert of Afghanistan when we had the opportunity to do it in '98, '99. Abu Jandal was behind the curve and we were ahead of it. Now it’s the other way around."

Abu Jandal isn't sure he's ahead of the curve today. He won't rule out working for Osama bin Laden again in the future. But for now, he's unemployed, with a growing tribe of three kids. His daughters stay at home while his son, Habib, goes to a private school. He may be learning English today.

But his first taste of life was offered by Osama bin Laden. When Habib was born, Abu Jandal says Osama took a bite from a date and put it in Habib’s mouth. That was before Habib began feeding from his mother’s breast.

"He's got Osama in his blood," says Abu Jandal.

Habib says he wants to be an engineer when he grows up. Abu Jandal has other ideas for his only son.

"I have great hopes for him and pray to God that he will finish what his father was not able to finish. I pray that he will become a martyr," Abu Jandal says. "Frankly, I hope that my son gets killed and becomes a martyr for the sake of God Almighty."

"You’re sitting here, but you’re not ready to see your daughter killed for America. I, on the other hand, am ready to see my son get killed for the sake of Islam," he adds.

"That’s the difference between you and me …" Simon says.

"True ..." Abu Jandal replies.

[Dork.]

OK, so there are terrorists out there that want to kill us. We get that. What do these NSL letters have to do with that?

Hey, wait a minute... You might be a terrorist! Maybe I should turn you in!

[Dakar]

Do the ends justify the means Abe?

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by abe

If you accept the possibility of law enforcement and governmental agencies hiding, withholding or massaging information in one instance you must accept the possibility of their doing the same in this instance.

The article says this information wasn't released by the authorities.

Let's compare something, shall we?

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/natio...on-060402.html

Originally Posted by CBC News

Deadly blast in doughnut shop not a terrorist job: police
Last Updated Mon, 03 Apr 2006 08:14:22 EDT

Police have ruled out terrorism as the cause of an explosion at a Tim Hortons doughnut shop that killed one man in a trendy downtown area of Toronto on Sunday.

The victim was likely an arsonist or attempting suicide, Staff Sgt. Don Cole of Toronto police told reporters hours after the explosion.

Firefighters outside the Tim Hortons in Toronto where an explosion killed a man on Sunday.
"He's not a strap-on al-Qaeda bomber guy," Cole said. "It sounds to me like a guy who either wanted to do a torch job or commit suicide."

Police said the man apparently carried a can of gasoline into a washroom stall about 1 p.m. local time at the eatery in the city's Yorkville area, and set off a flash fire that killed him.

The victim was an unidentified male who was pronounced dead at the scene with severe burns to his body. Nobody else was injured.

Tim Hortons spokesman Nick Javor later confirmed the victim was not an employee. In a statement, he praised the quick response of the staff, and said they would be offered appropriate support.

Police Chief Bill Blair earlier described the incident as a flash fire rather than a bombing. Two blocks in the downtown area were cordoned off as police investigated.

"It appears that there has been a very hot and intense fire in an enclosed area within the washroom," Blair said. But he declined to speculate on the cause of the fire.

"Until we determine precisely what happened in that cubicle and what caused those flames that took that man's life, I really can't speculate," he said.

Police could not confirm reports the man was seen entering the washroom with wires or possibly explosives strapped to his body.

The ceiling fell down on the victim, bringing down wires and batteries from an air-freshening device that might have contributed to suspicions of a bomb, Cole said.

After the incident, a police robot was used to remove a duffel bag from the doughnut shop, which is on Yonge Street just north of the intersection with Bloor Street.

Explosives experts detonated the bag with a loud bang. It contained school supplies.

Police also evacuated a second Tim Hortons a few kilometres north and detonated a suspicious package, which ended up being a clock in a shopping bag.

Eyewitness Jenny Phillips told Reuters that she heard bangs like pops from a firecracker and a scream "that will haunt me forever" as she left the washroom area.

She smelled burnt powder and saw a "wall of flames" inside the men's washroom before staff herded the two dozen customers outside.

"I thought the roof was caving in," she said. "People were screaming."

Employees who appeared shaken were escorted from the scene, and some attempted to shield their faces from the throng of television cameras.

They refused to answer questions, but Tim Hortons district manager Amin Islam said they were doing well. "I'm just making sure they're going home safely," he said.

Daryl Fuglerud, a spokesman with Toronto's fire department, told reporters the man who died had burns to his body.

"It doesn't appear that there was much of a fire at all," Fuglerud said. "There was a very small amount of smoke upon our arrival."

Fuglerud said the investigation was turned over to police because it was a "possible criminal" case.

http://www.homelandsecurityus.com/si...hp?storyid=223

Originally Posted by NSL

Investigation conducted by the Northeast Intelligence Network into the explosion and fire at a Tim Horton’s Coffee shop in Toronto that occurred at approximately 1:00 pm yesterday has provided some information not made public by authorities. The specific information obtained by Northeast Intelligence Network investigators located in Canada and New York casts doubt on the official explanation of the events provided by Toronto Police that the fire and explosion was caused by gasoline, and the dead man was intent on either committing suicide or causing arson to the facility. Contrary to the official explanation, there is a strong indication that the explosive substance TATP (triacetone triperoxide), also known as the Mother of Satan and a homemade and very unstable explosive was used in this blast. This is the same substance used by "the despondent" Joel Henry Hinnrichs outside of the Oklahoma University stadium on October 1, 2005 - a blast that was ruled as a "suicide" and unrelated to terrorism.

According to initial reports, a male walked into the Tim Horton’s Doughnut Shop located near the intersection of Yonge and Bloor Streets, only a few yards from the entrance
to Toronto's largest subway station and one of the busiest intersections in the city about 1:00 pm yesterday. The male was observed by restaurant patrons and at least one employee who observed him entering the washroom immediately upon arrival. A number of those witnesses described the male subject as having something strapped to his upper body or otherwise visible through his outer clothing. Within minutes after the male entered the restroom, a “loud bang” was heard and a concussion was felt throughout the establishment, sending customers and some employees fleeing from the restaurant.

Police responded and found one dead male inside of the restroom, signs of an explosion and small fire, and what appeared to be batteries and wires near the body. Based on these observations, police immediately closed busy Yonge Street in both directions while a preliminary investigation was initiated.

According to reports by police and fire officials, “It doesn't appear that there was much of a fire at all. There was a very small amount of smoke upon our arrival." The washroom of the ceiling suffered explosive damage, and wires and batteries through to have been part of some type of bomb were, according to police, “part of an air freshening device inside of the washroom.”

Apparently ripping a page from the FBI’s public relations manual, Staff Sgt. Don Cole of Toronto police told reporters that the victim was likely an arsonist or attempting suicide. "He's not a strap-on al-Qaeda bomber guy," Cole said. "It sounds to me like a guy who either wanted to do a torch job or commit suicide” (edited to add: inside of a Tim Hortons with an incendiary or explosive device).

Daryl Fuglerud, a spokesman with Toronto's fire department, told reporters the man who died had burns to his body. "It doesn't appear that there was much of a fire at all," Fuglerud said. "There was a very small amount of smoke upon our arrival." He added that the investigation was turned over to police because it was a "possible criminal" case.

After the explosion, a police robot was used to remove a duffel bag from the doughnut shop and detonate the bag that reportedly contained school supplies.

"Apparently ripping a page from the FBI’s public relations manual?!?" Sounds like NIN copied that stock news report, shovelled the words around a bit, and added speculation willy-nilly. The only people "ripping pages" are the kooks running NIN.

Originally Posted by abe

The authorities would want to prevent widespread panic and vigilanteism.

Because NIN already has that corner of the market covered.

EDIT: replaced NSL with NIN

[abe]

Originally Posted by Dork.

OK, so there are terrorists out there that want to kill us. We get that. What do these NSL letters have to do with that?

Hey, wait a minute... You might be a terrorist! Maybe I should turn you in!

That would be cute.

[abe]

Originally Posted by Dakar

Do the ends justify the means Abe?

In a binary world where there are ONLY these two options:

1) A total loss of civil rights forever but complete safety.

VERSUS

2) Totally protected civil rights but the enemy successfully attacks us at will, leading to our being conquered or/and destroyed.

I would choose #1 because fewer people would die. (BTW, I'm totally aware that my position would represent that of the Saddam loyalists if we were Iraqis.)

But this isn't a binary world. There ARE shades of gray and those of you who oppose the government refuse to acknowledge the difficulty and the moral angst these measures produce in our leadership as they try to find the right shade of gray.

How does a person who grew up during the Depression or WWII or the Cold War suddenly lose sight of the greatness of America and the need to preserve and protect that which makes it strong and great? How does that person or PEOPLE all lose their way such that they become the monsters you imagine?

Answer: THEY DON'T.

Your reading sci fi books and watching outer space films created by paranoids who REALLY DO have a monetary interest in keeping you afraid of and mentally fighting the Klingons and the Romulans or the Dark Star or the evil government have you framing a common and appropriate tightening of civil liberties (as has happened during EVERY WAR) as a move by the gummint to create that most feared dysfunctional family member, BIG BROTHER!

Our government is not Big Brother. They have their failings and their flaws because they, like you and I, are human beings and we're just not perfect.

But the sinister motives you fear are waaaaay misplaced.

So, the govt. tries to find some way to gain the edge over REAL LIFE bad guys who have demonstrated several times and have ANNOUNCED their intentions clearly and are putting muscle behind their talk in terrorist attacks all over the world, and when YOUR govt., the people sworn to protect you, try to do their job to save your bacon you fear their IMAGINED excesses such that you'd allow THE REAL DANGER to have it's way.

Brilliant.

The CLOSER you look into the threat and the measures taken to combat the threat the more you'll see that great pains have been taken to try to find the right balance to protect liberty and abide by the constitution but at the same time combat a foe that the founding fathers never imagined.

Your computerized gadgets and communication devices and comm. methods of the 21st Century are complicating factors you may not understand when it comes to assessing the danger of terrorism.

It levels the playing field and gives evil doers greater opportunities to do evil upon us and if we don't use those same hi-tech methods in our efforts to stop or prevent their doings, if we don't place SOME kinds of sensors or limiters in the otherwise unimpeded flow of information, it's like operating a windoze machine without any firewalls, anti-virus software or spamware or anything.

And THAT, I'm sure you'd agree, would be virtual suicide.

[abe]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna

Let's compare something, shall we?

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/natio...on-060402.html



http://www.homelandsecurityus.com/si...hp?storyid=223

"Apparently ripping a page from the FBI’s public relations manual?!?" Sounds like NSL copied that stock news report, shovelled the words around a bit, and added speculation willy-nilly. The only people "ripping pages" are the kooks running NSL.


Because NSL already has that corner of the market covered.

If I'm not mistaken, your authorities are still investigating and have yet to say one way or another. Maybe they should just give you a call. You seem certain it's not a case of terrorism. How silly THEY must be.

[abe]

But, that's just ONE instance. Let's have all the detective "Lt. Columbo's" of the world (such as yourself) disprove every suspected terrorist act, AFTER THE FACT. (Accurately or not and only with information gleaned from the MSM sources.)

Meanwhile, (until we can say that NONE of these suspected acts are indeed the acts of jihadists) don't you want the Federal government doing what it can to safeguard your way of life?

How much HAVE you been inconvenienced due to the Patriot Act these past three (or so) years?

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by abe

But, that's just ONE instance. Let's have all the detective "Lt. Columbo's" of the world (such as yourself) disprove every suspected terrorist act, AFTER THE FACT. (Accurately or not and only with information gleaned from the MSM sources.)

It's the NIN that is pretending to be a bunch of Columbos. I'm not qualified to investigate anything. I just happened to notice that the NIN site mixed real news with complete speculation in the Tim Hortons fire.

Originally Posted by abe

How much HAVE you been inconvenienced due to the Patriot Act these past three (or so) years?

Zero. I live in Canada.

EDITED: replaced NSL with NIN

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by abe

If I'm not mistaken, your authorities are still investigating and have yet to say one way or another. Maybe they should just give you a call. You seem certain it's not a case of terrorism. How silly THEY must be.

Not certain at all. But I just prefer to get my news from a real news source, not the NIN.

EDIT: replaced NSL with NIN

[Dork.]

By NSL, you're really referring to the Northease Intelligence Network, that registered the www.homelandsecurityus.com domain, right? Or am I missing something?

The NSL I was originally referring to were the Patriot Act-related National Security Letters that the first poster was talkign about.

Is there another NSL that I missed in this thread? I've been too busy reporting AW's terrorist sympathies to the government to read it more closely.

[FeLiZeCaT]

Originally Posted by abe

If I'm not mistaken, your authorities are still investigating and have yet to say one way or another. Maybe they should just give you a call. You seem certain it's not a case of terrorism. How silly THEY must be.

OK.

So you are South of Canada's border, your sources from the South of that border, and we should believe you and your sources over people who have been working on the site.

hmmm...

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by Dork.

By NSL, you're really referring to the Northease Intelligence Network, that registered the www.homelandsecurityus.com domain, right? Or am I missing something?

No, you're right. My bad.

[lpkmckenna]

More real news on the Tim Hortons' fire in Toronto: http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/natio...4.html?ref=rss

Originally Posted by CBC News

The unnamed man who perished in the washroom of a Tim Hortons restaurant in downtown Toronto on Sunday died by his own hand, police say.

In a terse statement Tuesday, police said investigators have determined that the flash fire that killed him was not accidental, and that the injuries that led to his death were self-inflicted.

Police are still trying to find out who the mystery person was.

The incident happened at about 1 p.m. local time Sunday afternoon when patrons at a Tim Hortons restaurant heard what they said was a loud explosion.

Some witnesses said they saw a man go into the washroom with a bomb strapped around his waist and wires hanging out of his pocket. But those reports were quickly discounted, as was speculation that the man was a terrorist bomber.

The police investigated and found the man had carried a can of gasoline into a washroom stall a short time before the explosion and flash fire that killed him.

[abe]

Hahaha! Leave it to MacNN liberals to find the LEAST consequential aspect of an issue to stand upon!

Way to trivialize your own safety and well being, guys!

[FeLiZeCaT]

Originally Posted by abe

Hahaha! Leave it to MacNN liberals to find the LEAST consequential aspect of an issue to stand upon!

Way to trivialize your own safety and well being, guys!

No idea what you are talking about.

[abe]

Originally Posted by FeLiZeCaT

No idea what you are talking about.

The issue here is NOT Canada.

It's not about:

- your local law enforcement.

- your coffee shops

- any one website reporting after the fact what may or may not be acts of terrorism.


The REAL ISSUE here is...


Anybody?

[lpkmckenna]

The real issue is abe's crap-flooding.

[abe]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna

The real issue is abe's crap-flooding.

In your heart you know I'm right.

[Dakar]

Originally Posted by abe

In a binary world where there are ONLY these two options:

1) A total loss of civil rights forever but complete safety.

VERSUS

2) Totally protected civil rights but the enemy successfully attacks us at will, leading to our being conquered or/and destroyed.

I would choose #1 because fewer people would die. (BTW, I'm totally aware that my position would represent that of the Saddam loyalists if we were Iraqis.)

Apparently you don't hold on to the old belief live free or die.

[abe]

Originally Posted by Dakar

Apparently you don't hold on to the old belief live free or die.

Since when have we lived "free?"

But seriously, that was a simpler time. Simpler issues. That's a bumper sticker. A sound byte.

This is more complex than even five years ago but you want to go George and Martha on us, here?

[Dork.]

Originally Posted by Dakar

Apparently you don't hold on to the old belief live free or die.

I think you're right. American Patriots have fought and died to preserve the freedoms that terrorist sympethizers like abe want to just hand over. Now, abe may want to hand them over to the government, and OBL may want us to hand them to him, but in both cases, we hand over willingly what Patriots died to protect.

abe, why do you hate America and her Patriots?

Better yet... Dakar, why does abe hate America?

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna

The real issue is abe's crap-flooding.

It would be amusing if you'd take care of the line of crap behind you before pointing out others crap.

[Dakar]

Originally Posted by abe

Since when have we lived "free?"

STRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWMAN!

Originally Posted by abe

But seriously, that was a simpler time. Simpler issues. That's a bumper sticker. A sound byte.

This is more complex than even five years ago but you want to go George and Martha on us, here?

So you don't believe in live free or die?

[abe]

Originally Posted by Kevin

It would be amusing if you'd take care of the line of crap behind you before pointing out others crap.

I think it would be more like IMPOSSIBLE for lpk (what's that? Little Pretty Kitty?) to do as you advise, Kevin!

[abe]

Originally Posted by Dakar

STRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWMAN!


So you don't believe in live free or die?

Hahahaha! What that boils down to these days is:

- No state sales tax

- No mandatory motorcycle helmet laws

There may be 1 or 2 other things that New Hampshire can say makes their citizens "freer" than the rest of us. So, if that's YOUR idea of the kind of freedoms that the NSL in this example is preventing just go to NH and buy a Big Gulp and go wild!

Slurp (tax) Free or die. Big deal.

[abe]

Originally Posted by Dork.

I think you're right. American Patriots have fought and died to preserve the freedoms that terrorist sympethizers like abe want to just hand over. Now, abe may want to hand them over to the government, and OBL may want us to hand them to him, but in both cases, we hand over willingly what Patriots died to protect.

abe, why do you hate America and her Patriots?

I don't hate AMERICA and her Patriots.

I hate Dakar.











j/k

[Dakar]

Originally Posted by abe

Hahahaha! What that boils down to these days is:

- No state sales tax

- No mandatory motorcycle helmet laws

There may be 1 or 2 other things that New Hampshire can say makes their citizens "freer" than the rest of us. So, if that's YOUR idea of the kind of freedoms that the NSL in this example is preventing just go to NH and buy a Big Gulp and go wild!

Slurp (tax) Free or die. Big deal.

Yup, this post is devoid of an actual answer to my question!

So... do you believe in live free or die?

[abe]

Originally Posted by Dakar

Yup, this post is devoid of an actual answer to my question!

So... do you believe in live free or die?

Excuse me. I think you should use the sense that God gave you and the computer before you and, employing the MacNN search feature, go fish.

The Answer Is Out There Somewhere.

[Dakar]

Originally Posted by abe

Excuse me. I think you should use the sense that God gave you

Originally Posted by abe

and the computer before you and, employing the MacNN search feature, go fish.

The Answer Is Out There Somewhere.

What's you're problem with answering a straight-forward question? I'm not asking you to jump through hoops, so why are you trying to get me to?

[abe]

Originally Posted by Dakar

What's you're problem with answering a straight-forward question? I'm not asking you to jump through hoops, so why are you trying to get me to?

Originally Posted by Dakar

So... do you believe in live free or die?

Using ALL your powers of observation, investigation, deduction and Dakar intuition what do YOU think the answer is?

[Dakar]

Originally Posted by abe

Using ALL your powers of observation, investigation, deduction and Dakar intuition what do YOU think the answer is?

What I think the answer is doesn't matter. Why would a guess when you can just answer?

Sorry, this is the political forum, and one thing I avoid doing is assuming what someone means. People get all bitchy about it when you're wrong, and sometimes they'll back off and pretend that's not what they meant when you're right.

It's like Rule 8. Why do so many people post articles without giving what they think? Because they don't want to get boxed in to an opinion they can't slip away from.

[abe]

Originally Posted by Dakar

What I think the answer is doesn't matter. Why would a guess when you can just answer?

Sorry, this is the political forum, and one thing I avoid doing is assuming what someone means. People get all bitchy about it when you're wrong, and sometimes they'll back off and pretend that's not what they meant when you're right.

It's like Rule 8. Why do so many people post articles without giving what they think? Because they don't want to get boxed in to an opinion they can't slip away from.

Originally Posted by Dakar

So... do you believe in live free or die?

[Dakar]

Big surprise, you don't answer the question.

[Dork.]

Originally Posted by abe

I don't hate AMERICA and her Patriots.

We all know that Terrorists are trained to lie. So your denial is actually proof positive that you're a terrorist!

Pretty soon, the Echelon and Total Information Awareness programs will pick up on this thread and flag your suspicious activities. MacNN will be sent a NSL to force it to hand over all IP addresses you have used here in the past year for all of your accounts (and forbid them to tell you about it), then the entity that owns every account you have used (both personal and work-related) will be sent NSL's that force them to track your surfing habits (again, without telling you that your employer now needs to consider you as a National Security risk come the next pay review time.). After finding more posts like this (which label you as a terrorist because you use a Islamic name IN THE TITLE), there will be a sneak-and-peak warrant issued where federal agents enter your home and clandestinely make copies of all of your computers (including the browser caches) without telling you. They may or may not conclude that you are, in fact, a terrorist -- that's for the jury to decide, after all. But your midget porn collection? Let's just say that even if that information isn't supposed to get to the local authorities, don't be suprised if you get a little visit anyway, on an "anonymous" tip....

Does that sound presposterous? How much do you trust your government to Do The Right Thing and not make an example out of you, terrorist scumbag?

[lpkmckenna]

The stupidity of believing the Tim Hortons' fire was related to terrorism is officially over.

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Con...l=969483202845

Tim Hortons fire a suicide: Police
Not known why man chose Tim Hortons site
Victim poured gas on his body and
set himself ablaze
Apr. 5, 2006. 05:41 AM
TRACY HUFFMAN
CRIME REPORTER

The flash fire inside the bathroom of a downtown Tim Hortons on Sunday was a suicide, police sources say.
The man — whose identity has not been released — walked into the coffee shop around 1 p.m. with a small gas container. Inside the bathroom, he poured gas over his body and lit himself on fire.
Police believe they know who the man is but are not releasing his identity as they have had difficulty notifying his next of kin. His immediate family is believed to be out of the country.
Because he was burned extensively, Dr. Jim Cairns, Ontario's deputy chief coroner, said dental records or DNA analysis will be required to formally identify the man.
"We're not dealing with any criminal activity here. Further investigation will determine if this was an accidental death or a suicide," he said.
Police have been in contact with a distant relative in the city but have not been able to reach the man's wife. Unhappy in Canada, she and the couple's young child returned recently to South Asia, a source said.
The man, a Toronto resident, had been suffering from depression, the source said.
The Tim Hortons outlet at 769 Yonge St., just north of Bloor St., will reopen tomorrow.
Initially, police were unsure whether the fire was accidental or intentional and the fire marshal's office meticulously investigated the scene to determine whether there were any problems in the washroom prior to the flash fire.
Police quickly ruled out any possibility that the incident was an act of terrorism.
It is not known why the man chose to kill himself at the Tim Hortons. Police found the man's wallet in the washroom and a set of keys on his body.
The keys matched a car parked nearby and police towed the vehicle, which was registered to the dead man, and completed a forensic investigation on it.
Tim Hortons spokesperson Nick Javor said work is being done to renovate the bathroom where the fire happened.
"The damage is moderate to the rest of the store," he said.
Following the incident, Tim Hortons offered counselling to its employees. While the store was closed, employees were offered shifts at other outlets.

The stupidity at NIN, however, goes on...

[abe]

Originally Posted by Dakar

Big surprise, you don't answer the question.

I did you the favor of answering that STUPID question. YOUR problem is that you can't face reality. You have your answer but it's not the way you want it. Well, tough shix.

Also, I take umbrage at an attitude which suggests I MUST answer YOUR question.

You should be glad I entertained your Rainman-like insistence at all. But, I have a soft spot in my heart for those who face special challenges.

[abe]

Originally Posted by Dork.

We all know that Terrorists are trained to lie. So your denial is actually proof positive that you're a terrorist!

Pretty soon, the Echelon and Total Information Awareness programs will pick up on this thread and flag your suspicious activities. MacNN will be sent a NSL to force it to hand over all IP addresses you have used here in the past year for all of your accounts (and forbid them to tell you about it), then the entity that owns every account you have used (both personal and work-related) will be sent NSL's that force them to track your surfing habits (again, without telling you that your employer now needs to consider you as a National Security risk come the next pay review time.). After finding more posts like this (which label you as a terrorist because you use a Islamic name IN THE TITLE), there will be a sneak-and-peak warrant issued where federal agents enter your home and clandestinely make copies of all of your computers (including the browser caches) without telling you. They may or may not conclude that you are, in fact, a terrorist -- that's for the jury to decide, after all. But your midget porn collection? Let's just say that even if that information isn't supposed to get to the local authorities, don't be suprised if you get a little visit anyway, on an "anonymous" tip....

Does that sound presposterous? How much do you trust your government to Do The Right Thing and not make an example out of you, terrorist scumbag?

Whenever anyone is occasionally pulled over by law enforcement they are scrutinized. We are scrutinized ALL THE TIME, whether we know it or not. Who cares? Let them look. The reality of the matter is that if you are more worried about your own porn collection than the security of the United States then your priorities are skewed.

I say to you or anyone else who fears the Government more than the enemies of America, take a look at yourself and your lifestyle.

If you are afraid you might be targeted by the government is it because you have something to hide?

The government of Libya knew they had something to worry about after the invasion so they decided to come clean with their WMD's.

The only way to sleep at night is to know you have nothing to fear.

If you believe there is still something to fear even by law abiding citizens, then that's a completely different issue. That is a matter for professional help. Paranoia can be treated.

But, now that I think about it, I'm sure many of you once had this realization...

THE GOVERNMENT IS RUN SOMEWHAT LOOSER THAN THE AVERAGE LARGE SUCCESSFUL BUSINESS.

Wherever and whenever this broad brush generality might be accurate there would be a number of reasons why. But, without going into all of those reasons, let's just say that we held and hold a different expectation of the way government is conducted than the way businesses are run.

So, when government aspires to a more efficient operational, communications and protection model let's be clear about this.

You want the post office to do a better job. You want the IRS to do a better job. You want the FAA to do a better job. You want the Dept. of the Interior to do a better job. You want the Treasury to do a better job. You want Congress to do a better job.

But you don't want Homeland Security to do a better job????