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amazing · Sep 3, 2010, 02:57 PM

Does anybody really like the new models? No love/hate threads? Underwhelmed?

About the Touch: the poor camera pretty much kills it for me...with even just a 2 MP camera instead of the .7 MP, I would consider it...

Nano Square: why did they have to try to reinvent the wheel? (as in: why do away with the click wheel? my fingers could navigate it without looking at it!)

Or are the forums just plain dead?

ibook_steve · Sep 3, 2010, 03:20 PM

I would venture that most people who visit a technical forum like this one are not the customer base for the Shuffle and Nano. I certainly am not. I've pre-ordered a 32 GB iPod Touch (camera doesn't bother me; having any camera at all vs. my crappy dumb phone camera is better than nothing) without even considering the other iPods.

I think the other iPods are much more suited for people who work out to music and as gifts for non-techies. The only time I ever bought a shuffle was as a gift (plus the original shuffle that I got for free near the end of my tenure at Apple).

Steve

Thorzdad · Sep 3, 2010, 04:01 PM

I, for one, am delighted they came to their senses on the Shuffle and ditched that horrible, clumsy inline wire-mounted control system on the buttonless model, and returned to the clickwheel money-clip Shuffle. It's perfect for running.

amazing · Sep 3, 2010, 04:54 PM

Agreed on the new shuffle, but was hyped to get a new Touch until I heard about the camera--even my Sony Ericcson takes better pictures! Now I'll wait and see what the reviews say about the Touch.

Not at all interested in the Nano Squared.

Still think it's curious that there weren't any reaction threads to the new models (other than the thread about the pressnote.) Doesn't it seem like there were loads of threads in the past when new models are introduced?

subego · Sep 3, 2010, 06:31 PM

I'm still all good with my pack of chewing gum sized Shuffle. One gig is plenty for a day or two, it's bulletproof, and has buttons.

bmcgonag · Sep 3, 2010, 08:45 PM

I'm disappointed in the new nano. I was just about to get one for my dad (he is blind) because it had the option to have the menus, songs, playlists, etc. read to him through the device. Now with no tactile feedback it would be about as useful as a broken 8-track.

Otherwise, no real feelings either way on the touch. I do think that they should have made a bigger stride forward by now...but maybe the engineering is much more tricky than we know...and it could simply be an issue of price point.

amazing · Sep 4, 2010, 12:39 AM

Originally Posted by bmcgonag

I'm disappointed in the new nano. I was just about to get one for my dad (he is blind) because it had the option to have the menus, songs, playlists, etc. read to him through the device. Now with no tactile feedback it would be about as useful as a broken 8-track.

Otherwise, no real feelings either way on the touch. I do think that they should have made a bigger stride forward by now...but maybe the engineering is much more tricky than we know...and it could simply be an issue of price point.

The refurb previous generation Nanos are still available in the refurb section of the Apple Store, so maybe that might work for your dad. I imagine amazon.com will also have them for quite some time.

Given that Apple knew how different the new squarish Nano is, I really think they're keeping the old models around intentionally. All the remaindered old stock is undoubtedly sold off, perhaps to amazon.com,

AKcrab · Sep 4, 2010, 12:44 AM

They fixed the shuffle, and introduced the new ShuffleTouch.

amazing · Sep 4, 2010, 10:03 AM

Originally Posted by AKcrab

They fixed the shuffle, and introduced the new ShuffleTouch.

Precisely! And doesn't it seem too small to easily flip through screens? Gotta use 2 hands instead of one?

MacinTommy · Sep 4, 2010, 11:36 AM

Wait... whats with the new camera on the touch?

amazing · Sep 4, 2010, 11:55 AM

the rear-facing camera on the Touch is .7 MP, way too chintzy.

2.0 MP should've been the minimum...Apple is cutting its throat while trying to differentiate the Touch from the iPhone 4.

amazing · Sep 4, 2010, 12:04 PM

ooh, and guess what: the newly announced Samsung Galaxy iPad-challenger has front and rear facing cams. If I've got the specs right, it's 3.0 MP on the camera, 1.3 MP video. Not yet available, of course, buy spec'd to cost less than the 32 GB Touch.

So, Apple shot itself in the foot by not putting front and rear cameras in the iPad, and now they've done it with poor specs on the touch.

(not that anybody might want anything Samsung-ish, but why does Apple do these things? Yes, they'll sell a bunch more iPads next year when it comes out with cams, but nobody would've been able to stick a toe in the market if the iPad had had the cams from the very beginning...)

Spheric Harlot · Sep 4, 2010, 01:07 PM

Originally Posted by amazing

the rear-facing camera on the Touch is .7 MP, way too chintzy.

2.0 MP should've been the minimum...Apple is cutting its throat while trying to differentiate the Touch from the iPhone 4.

I think it might have gone over better had they just not enabled still shots at all.

Think of it as a 720p video camera that also does stills.

Spheric Harlot · Sep 4, 2010, 01:12 PM

Originally Posted by amazing

So, Apple shot itself in the foot by not putting front and rear cameras in the iPad, and now they've done it with poor specs on the touch.

It makes sense for a lot of people to wait for a model with built-in camera, but I'm not entirely sure that their current sales rate (Apple is ramping up to three million A MONTH) would support the idea that they've "shot themselves in the foot."

Just think what would've happened had they made everyone happy - you probably STILL wouldn't be able to get one…

::maroma:: · Sep 4, 2010, 03:35 PM

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot

Just think what would've happened had they made everyone happy…

Impossible. I read a comment on another forum the other day that went something like, "Apple could come out with a device that cures Cancer tomorrow, and people would complain that it doesn't cure AIDS and drive them to the store..."

Putting cameras on the 1st gen iPads wouldn't have stopped the competition. That's just crazy talk. Its not as if cameras are the holy grail of tablets/mobile devices. Its just another feature. Competition will always be there no matter what you come up with.

Spheric Harlot · Sep 4, 2010, 05:04 PM

^ very true.

This bit here struck me as funny:

Originally Posted by amazing

they'll sell a bunch more iPads next year when it comes out with cams, but nobody would've been able to stick a toe in the market if the iPad had had the cams from the very beginning...)

So far, nobody else has been able to stick a toe in the market.

It remains to be seen whether anybody can by this time next year.

subego · Sep 4, 2010, 05:27 PM

Originally Posted by amazing

the rear-facing camera on the Touch is .7 MP, way too chintzy.

2.0 MP should've been the minimum...Apple is cutting its throat while trying to differentiate the Touch from the iPhone 4.

This could be a physics issue. Separation between the lens and the sensor is important, and the iPhone has a lot more room to play with.

Spheric Harlot · Sep 4, 2010, 06:14 PM

Yep. I remember him mentioning last year that the nano didn't do stills because those required much more complex optics, and there simply wasn't enough room.

subego · 11:46 PM

Wouldn't mind seeing an iPhone sized Touch which had all that room devoted to a mega-honkin' battery though.

imitchellg5 · Sep 4, 2010, 10:14 PM

Originally Posted by amazing

ooh, and guess what: the newly announced Samsung Galaxy iPad-challenger has front and rear facing cams. If I've got the specs right, it's 3.0 MP on the camera, 1.3 MP video. Not yet available, of course, buy spec'd to cost less than the 32 GB Touch.

Has a flash as well...

SSharon · Sep 5, 2010, 01:06 AM

Originally Posted by subego

This could be a physics issue. Separation between the lens and the sensor is important, and the iPhone has a lot more room to play with.

And here we are back to form over function. During the announcement Apple listed all of the complaints that people had about the shuffle, but had they done so for the ipod touch I don't think anyone would have said it was too thick. Apple solved a problem that didn't exist.

Making a thinner ipod touch means a crappier camera and whole new set of docks and other peripherals customized to its thickness, while only gaining a few millimeters that nobody asked for.

amazing · Sep 5, 2010, 01:38 AM

Originally Posted by SSharon

And here we are back to form over function. During the announcement Apple listed all of the complaints that people had about the shuffle, but had they done so for the ipod touch I don't think anyone would have said it was too thick. Apple solved a problem that didn't exist.

Making a thinner ipod touch means a crappier camera and whole new set of docks and other peripherals customized to its thickness, while only gaining a few millimeters that nobody asked for.

Exactly--If Apple put a better camera in and even a better battery in the Touch, a slightly more capable Touch would've been very popular.

And yes, the iPad is widely popular (shot itself in the foot is a wee bit of exaggeration) but imagine how perfect it would be with a forward facing and rear cam!

SSharon · Sep 5, 2010, 03:22 AM

Originally Posted by amazing

And yes, the iPad is widely popular (shot itself in the foot is a wee bit of exaggeration) but imagine how perfect it would be with a forward facing and rear cam!

I imagine it all the time whenever I come home from work and see the ipad sitting on my desk not being used. I really could have used some video chat abilities from an ipad or ipod these past few months.

Big Mac · Sep 5, 2010, 03:50 AM

Apparently the first incarnation of the iPad wasn't a good fit for you, SSharon. I personally really like it and get a lot out of it. Would it have been even better with a camera or two? Sure. A lot of things could be better than they are, but we accept them despite their shortcomings.

amazing · Sep 6, 2010, 04:54 PM

Apple engages in some pretty aggressive product differentiation, in the hopes that the lack of features will upsell you to the more expensive big brother.

What that means is that Apple consciously omits features or installs underpowered features, to whit the .7 MP camera in the Touch. The next generation of the underpowered product will then receive the "upgraded" features, in the hopes that you will discard the first gen product and buy the latest and greatest.

In all fairness, I should disclose that I have developed a huge case of "Apple Cynicism." This medically-recognized psychological affliction is characterized by extreme derision in response to Apple product introductions, followed by attempts to drown your sorrow with various alcoholic libations. Dylan Thomas wrote a famous poem about this phenomena, entitled "Rage, Rage Against the Dying of the Apple Product Line."

redcapzero · Sep 6, 2010, 08:16 PM

same approach / attitude (marketing) applies with automobiles / HDTV's / a/v receivers / lighting controls / refrigerators / sneekers...list goes on.

Granted I've never owned a Touch, however with this "latest" I plan on purchasing (and not just for music).

nice point(s) made though.

Enjoy!

ort888 · Sep 6, 2010, 11:46 PM

Originally Posted by amazing

Or are the forums just plain dead?

There was a long discussion about all of these new iPods in the Lounge.

I personally don't like the new Nano at all. The touch screen adds zero functionality. It doesn't do a single new thing that the old one didn't do... besides be smaller. It lost the ability to play video, take pictures... it has a smaller screen, you can't work it without looking at it... no accelerometer, no game, no apps... multitouch adds nothing beyond novelty...

And once you get past the novelty of touching such a tiny thing, you're left with a clunkier experience.

I think Apple would have been better off taking the old Nano, dumping the camera and selling it for $99.

amazing · Sep 7, 2010, 01:11 AM

Originally Posted by ort888

There was a long discussion about all of these new iPods in the Lounge.

Ya know, I should've guessed that all the love was in the Lounge. Much the best place for it!

Ray@SAT · Sep 7, 2010, 03:36 PM

NO real still camera on the touch, NO deal.
What a huge disappointment.
Why have added video cam, when I'm still stuck carrying around my regular camera, that, by the way, does video.
I'll be keeping my 3rd gen touch for a while I guess

Phileas · Sep 7, 2010, 03:59 PM

I ordered a Touch for my parents. Facetime without setup got my credit card out, so now they can see their grandchild more often.

imitchellg5 · Sep 7, 2010, 05:33 PM

Originally Posted by Big Mac

Apparently the first incarnation of the iPad wasn't a good fit for you, SSharon. I personally really like it and get a lot out of it. Would it have been even better with a camera or two? Sure. A lot of things could be better than they are, but we accept them despite their shortcomings.

Or just don't buy them...

cgc · Sep 7, 2010, 06:26 PM

Not sure the iPod camera is that big of deal...I bought a 32GB iPod Touch and never even considered the fact it had a camera or did video, I was only interested in apps, Apple A4 chip, and the spectacular display. Do these devices really need to have everything possible jammed inside them? Seems ridiculous...

Ray@SAT · Sep 7, 2010, 06:35 PM

There are a tri-zillion apps for the touch out there... isn't having everything possible jammed inside the whole object ?
Why not just get an MP3 player, Camera, cell phone, HD Cam, and every other device the touch apps replaces and carry them in a cart behind you all day long ?

::maroma:: · Sep 7, 2010, 07:57 PM

Please... if Apple included the same camera that is on the iPhone 4, people would complain that its not enough megapixels to replace their DSLR.

There will always be a reason (or many) to complain about anything anyone ever comes out with. This sort of thing happens every single time Apple releases a new or updated anything. There are always a group of people (not always the same people, mind you) that will not be happy. That's the way it is. That's the way it will always be. A better camera would not change this fact.

I implore anyone here to invent, produce and sell any sort of tech product and at the same time make everyone happy with all of its features. It cannot be done.

There's a simple and effective way to disapprove of something Apple releases, and that is don't buy it. Complaining on an internet forum does nothing. Its like screaming into a brick wall. At least you can email Apple with your grievances, which is more than most companies allow. But I just never understood the point of starting a thread just to complain that Apple didn't include what you wanted in their product. What does it accomplish? Is it just a way to vent frustrations?

imitchellg5 · Sep 7, 2010, 08:22 PM

I haven't heard of anybody complaining about the iPhone 4's camera, which is good enough to make a lot of people stop carrying their point and shoot. But no matter how you cut it, 960x480 is such a crappy resolution for stills, it might as well not have even been included, like the 5G nano.

hyteckit · Sep 7, 2010, 09:38 PM

Initially, I was planning to replace my iPhone 3G with the new iPod Touch.

Because of its crappy camera still resolutions and no GPS, I'm going to get an iPhone 4 instead. Yes, I know, the monthly fees on the iPhone.

I guess that's what Steve Jobs wanted.

SSharon · Sep 7, 2010, 10:23 PM

Originally Posted by imitchellg5

Or just don't buy them...

I got it for free from work, data plan included

Spheric Harlot · Sep 8, 2010, 01:30 AM

Originally Posted by hyteckit

Initially, I was planning to replace my iPhone 3G with the new iPod Touch.

Because of its crappy camera still resolutions and no GPS, I'm going to get an iPhone 4 instead. Yes, I know, the monthly fees on the iPhone.

I guess that's what Steve Jobs wanted.

I'm sure he's rolling in his grave.

Seriously, this thread has turned WTF.

How did you live up until last week?

hyteckit · Sep 8, 2010, 03:12 AM

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot

I'm sure he's rolling in his grave.

Seriously, this thread has turned WTF.

How did you live up until last week?

Seriously, what's your problem?

Steve Jobs ain't dead, why would he be rolling in his grave?

I can't complain about the iPod Touch not having a GPS and having a crapping camera now?

Is Steve Jobs like God or something and everything he touches becomes gold. Criticizing any Apple product is blasphemy now?

Jesus. Some ppl.

Spheric Harlot · Sep 8, 2010, 03:35 AM

No, not at all.

I'm not by any means saying that the new iPods are perfect.

I'm just very amused at people complaining that they want to spend money on something that's not tailor-made to their personal whim, and go on to crown that with a whine about how somebody forced them to spend an enormous amount of money on something they claim not to want, instead.

There's a sucker born every minute, as they say.

Bravo, Apple!

hyteckit · Sep 8, 2010, 03:58 AM

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot

No, not at all.

I'm not by any means saying that the new iPods are perfect.

I'm just very amused at people complaining that they want to spend money on something that's not tailor-made to their personal whim, and go on to crown that with a whine about how somebody forced them to spend an enormous amount of money on something they claim not to want, instead.

There's a sucker born every minute, as they say.

Bravo, Apple!

Wow.

Comparing the iPhone 4 and the new iPod Touch, and making a buying decision to go with the iPhone 4 due to the limitations of the iPod Touch camera and the lack of GPS is whining?

What you call whining, I call making a purchasing decision.

There are lots of people in the same position as I am, deciding to go with the new iPod Touch or the iPhone 4 instead, and will look at those limitations of the iPod Touch before deciding to buy one or not.

Remember what Steve Jobs said? It's like an iPhone without the contract.

hyteckit · Sep 8, 2010, 04:50 AM

Engadget's review of the iPod Touch.

Yes. Engadget also complains about the quality of the camera and the lack of GPS.

iPod touch review (2010) -- Engadget

Spheric Harlot · Sep 8, 2010, 08:18 AM

Your post certainly sounded like a complaint.

Apologies if it wasn't.

amazing · Sep 8, 2010, 12:03 PM

There's the old saying, "Love is blind!" At least for awhile...

When you start looking at the warts and the crazy hair? When you start asking whether this thing has any staying power?

0.7 MP camera = seriously big wart.

Spheric Harlot · Sep 8, 2010, 01:04 PM

Yes. But I'm sure hyteckit's case is far from unique.

So Apple's clear-cut product differentiation results in a massive upsell.

I'll bet Steve isn't losing any sleep over that.

Ray@SAT · Sep 8, 2010, 01:21 PM

Steve is not loosing any sleep... but sales.

Waragainstsleep · Sep 8, 2010, 01:27 PM

I agree with Spheric. Every time Apple changes something, there is a raft of people complaining. Either they shouldn't have changed it at all or they didn't change it enough. Very sorry that the new iPods won't cook you dinner, then wash up then give you a nice full body aromatherapy massage complete with happy ending, maybe next year eh?

Days ago I saw pages posting instructions on how to get your coloured icons back in iTunes 10 or how to put the traffic lights horizontal again, accompanied by cries of "Why Apple? Why did you make the iTunes traffic lights vertical?!!!" I would have thought it was obvious why. It fits better when you minimise to the iTunes mini player.

I bet there are still designers lamenting the loss of the white iMacs.....

Ray@SAT · Sep 8, 2010, 01:34 PM

Don't know, but it seems there's a difference in wanting a decent camera than wanting my pod to cook me dinner, OR the orientation of the traffic lights. Maybe it's just me.

hyteckit · Sep 8, 2010, 01:58 PM

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot

Your post certainly sounded like a complaint.

Apologies if it wasn't.

Yes, it was a complaint.

Finding fault in a product is not whining. Finding limitations of a product is not whining.

I'm not crying until I get my way.

I'm merely stating the fact that because of these limitations, I'm going with the iPhone 4 instead.

Seriously. Stop whining about others finding limitations and faults in Apple products.

Spheric Harlot · Sep 8, 2010, 02:33 PM

Originally Posted by Ray@SAT

Steve is not loosing any sleep... but sales.

Really?

hyteckit is buying an iPhone instead, which will net Apple easily three or four times what they'd make off an iPod touch.

Everybody else - what are they going to do? Buy a competitor's product? There aren't any. No, seriously: not one.

So what do they do? Wait a bit and then bite the bullet? Does Apple care whether they sell you one now or next year?