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Pol Lounge General News Thread of "This doesn't deserve it's own thread" (Page 80)
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Laminar
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Jun 29, 2024, 07:40 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I thought you were looking for a response from me.

You asked for a privatization program that didn’t grow inequality. This doesn’t exist, so I provided one where it appears you find the inequality it grows to be acceptable.
You're right, I meant societal inequality, not a per-student academic outcome inequality.

I'm curious why you think the Bogota system provides better per-child educational outcomes. I didn't see any mention of equal per-child spending in those schools vs. the standard public schools, but are we assuming it's a lower cost for a better outcome? The only concrete difference that explains the better outcomes in the article I posted was:

These schools employ more full-time psychologists and provide more professional development training to teachers compared to traditional public schools. In particular, teacher trainings focus on classroom management and content, whereas teacher trainings in public schools focus more on coexistence in school and managing socio-emotional characteristics of students.
I see added cost, but I don't see where they're making up for it elsewhere. The less transparent and democratic a government is, the more likely a government position is to be 1) overpaid and 2) incompetent. I can see where replacing semi-corrupt government-appointed positions with non-profits would be more cost-effective and provide better outcomes if the original appointment wasn't based on skill or measurable outcomes and was overpaid. In my mind, the long-term solution is more transparency and democracy. But in a world where that's increasingly less possible, maybe relying on non-profits short term is a path to a more educated population that can drive society back toward democracy.

In Iowa, we have Area Education Agencies that appear to have a similar function to the Colombian non-profits chosen to run those special schools. They provide research, best practices, resources, and staffing to schools in order to drive better student outcomes. They provide professional development to teachers and play a significant role in providing resources for special needs students that an individual school might not be able to cover on their own. This is especially critical in the smaller, more rural schools in communities with declining populations, like my hometown.

Guess what the Republican governor decided to gut this year? AEAs. Stripped state funding and resources. Now the schools have to use their own funding to pay for AEA resources, so any school that's already on a tight budget (basically all but the big suburban schools) won't be able to afford anything, and poor kids fall further and further behind. The bill was EXTREMELY unpopular so the governor added an addendum that raised teacher starting salaries. NOTE that they didn't bump the pay scale, so a starting teacher would go years and years without getting a raise, and they also didn't increase school funding at all. So the smaller, funding-strapped schools will be even less likely to be able to afford new teachers. Nine Republicans actually defected and voted with the Democrats to block it, but it still passed 53-41.
     
OreoCookie
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Jun 30, 2024, 10:05 AM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
I've always said if the private sector can run it well and make a profit, then the public sector can run it slightly better and break even. Its just a question of getting the right people in to run it.
There are many situations where you don't want to economize, e. g. hospitals having surplus beds available (which come in handy in the event of a pandemic) or military preparing for the worst cases. Both of these are not measured in terms of economic rewards, so I don't think running schools like businesses makes any sort of sense.
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
This notion that something cannot be run well because its publicly funded is a conservative trick used to justify selling off services to rich conservatives. Usually on the cheap.
What is more, most private schools do receive public money. So the public subsidizes them, something I don't like. Plus, they reserve certain rights public schools don't have.
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
Agree. All the private schools in the UK are religious to some extent or another. Its typically not a big focus, and many parents & students simply endure it in order to get the higher quality education, but its there nonetheless. Most public schools also have a religious affiliation too actually.
Montessouri-based schools (called Waldorfschulen in Germany) are based on an “alternative” philosophy that has cult-like elements. Just to be clear: that doesn't mean the teachers themselves are all disciples or the schools produce loyal disciples.
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
I like the Finnish idea where there are no private schools (so I heard anyway). The logic being that those super rich parents who like to buy a new wing of their kids already wealthy private school, will donate that money to public schools where kids who need it more will benefit too.
I'm very much in favor of that philosophy as well. It should be so good that no matter how rich you are, you feel confident your kids are getting a great education.

Ditto for healthcare and public transportation. Precisely because health care is seen as a right in all but one developed country, the average health care now is much better than what really rich people could afford 100, 200 years ago.
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
I see added cost, but I don't see where they're making up for it elsewhere. The less transparent and democratic a government is, the more likely a government position is to be 1) overpaid and 2) incompetent. I can see where replacing semi-corrupt government-appointed positions with non-profits would be more cost-effective and provide better outcomes if the original appointment wasn't based on skill or measurable outcomes and was overpaid.
Having more support staff, better equipment, smaller classes as a result of better funding and equipment all seem to make better outcomes easier — not guaranteed, but easier.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Jun 30, 2024, 11:28 AM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
Montessouri-based schools (called Waldorfschulen in Germany) are based on an “alternative” philosophy that has cult-like elements.
Montessori and Waldorf are NOT the same thing. Waldorf schools are based upon the questionable teachings of self-proclaimed clairvoyant Rudolf Steiner. Yes, there is some bizarre cult-like stuff in there.

Maria Montessori took a decidedly more scientific approach whose effectiveness has been validated in a number of studies, since.

Both types of schools and kindergarten (pre-school for you 'mericans) exist in Germany.
     
subego
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Jun 30, 2024, 12:28 PM
 
Was indoctrinated at a Montessori school from K-8. AMA.
     
reader50
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Jun 30, 2024, 12:35 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
Montessori and Waldorf are NOT the same thing. Waldorf schools are based upon the questionable teachings of self-proclaimed clairvoyant Rudolf Steiner. Yes, there is some bizarre cult-like stuff in there.

Maria Montessori took a decidedly more scientific approach whose effectiveness has been validated in a number of studies, since.

Both types of schools and kindergarten (pre-school for you 'mericans) exist in Germany.
Which type offers levitation classes?

I'd be much more supportive of private schools based on crackpot and/or fanatic followers, if they actually delivered. If the Jesuit schools taught how to smite your enemies with fire from the sky. Or Catholic schools teach walking on water, for example. Deep water, that is. Anyone can walk on water that's only a few mm deep.
     
subego
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Jun 30, 2024, 12:43 PM
 
Catholic schools aren’t really in the same category as other religious educational institutions.

As an aside, the university outside my car wash that had their protests jackbooted? Catholic joint. My dad was an undergrad there.
     
subego
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Jun 30, 2024, 09:33 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
Guess what the Republican governor decided to gut this year? AEAs.
I looked at reporting on this from the Des Moines Register and the Iowa Capital Dispatch.

Are these strongly biased outfits? What they describe make it seem like little is changing. I certainly wouldn’t qualify it as gutted.
     
Laminar
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Jul 1, 2024, 07:39 AM
 
Des Moines Register is mildly liberal-biased.

The actual AEA employees are peacing out.

https://www.kcci.com/article/iowa-ae...w-law/60541707

https://www.kcrg.com/2024/05/09/iowa...-takes-effect/
     
subego
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Jul 2, 2024, 02:57 PM
 
From the first article:

“Yelick said the new policy isn't what's driving her employees from their careers. It's the uncertainty that coincides with the debates and coming changes. Yelick said the employees she's heard site [sic] the new law as a reason for leaving are expressing concerns about job security over distaste for the law.”

This strikes me as relevant.
     
Laminar
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Jul 2, 2024, 04:36 PM
 
Yes, you could certainly take the politically-correct line delivered by the government employee to the media at face value. That is an option.
     
subego
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Jul 2, 2024, 05:09 PM
 
Well, I’m nowhere near as familiar as you are with the system. Since you drew parallels to the program in Bogotá, I presumed there was NGO involvement.
     
 
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