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typoon · Sep 17, 2002, 01:51 PM

Who do you think was/is/were the Greatest President(s) that the US has had?

Phanguye · Sep 17, 2002, 01:59 PM

reagon cause he fixed all of carters mistakes

bewebste · Sep 17, 2002, 02:02 PM

The Mediocre Presidents

We are the mediocre presidents.
You won't find our faces on dollars or on cents!

There's Taylor, there's Tyler,
There's Fillmore and there's Hayes.
There's William Henry Harrison,
(Harrison) I died in thirty days!

We... are... the...
Adequate, forgettable,
Occasionally regrettable
Caretaker presidents of the U-S-A!

thunderous_funker · Sep 17, 2002, 02:05 PM

FDR.

By no means perfect, but the greatest by far.

Who's the pick for worst pres?

UgL_u2o · Sep 17, 2002, 02:06 PM

I liked Clinton...he kept us outta war for 8 years...and the economy was great while he was president!

Phanguye · Sep 17, 2002, 02:10 PM

not a big clinton fan... i dont think that he so much helped the economy as the economy in itself was working (doesnt really matter.... greenspan has been in charge for ever).... FDR did some good things and some bad things... i think the only one that really did nothing bad was harrison

::maroma:: · Sep 17, 2002, 02:11 PM

Abe's da man yo! I mean, just look at him!

Codename · Sep 17, 2002, 02:11 PM

Bill Clinton.

Zimphire · Sep 17, 2002, 02:26 PM

Depends, in MY lifetime? Reagan. Over all, who knows American History tends to make things up as it goes along, so we really don't know HOW older pres was in the beginning of our nation.

I do have respect for Washington though, and Lincoln.

But I believe Reagan was the last great pres our nation has had IMHO. that includes The Bushs and Clinton.

PowerMatt · Sep 17, 2002, 02:33 PM

best: TR
worst: FDR or Carter,

G4ME · Sep 17, 2002, 02:53 PM

Originally posted by PowerMatt:
best: TR
worst: FDR or Carter,

Teddy was a bad ass man, any pres that goes on Safari, was in the army and had his squad named the Roguh Riders has got my vote!

Millennium · Sep 17, 2002, 02:58 PM

The best one in my memory was Reagan. I caught the tail end of Carter's presidency, but I was too young to remember any of it.

Go back historically? Hmm. I'm not actually sure, in that case. Lincoln had great intentions and did some good stuff, but the games he played with the Constitution make Ashcroft's antics look like tiddlywinks. Jefferson was decent, I suppose, though he wasn't perfect by any means. FDR... well, he was the only President to be elected more than twice, so he can't have been all bad. At the same time, he was perhaps the paragon of tax-and-spend ideology.

Who was the worst? Probably Andrew Jackson. The one who proved that the common man may rule, but he will rule as a common man. John Adams (not to be confused with John Quincy Adams) did some rather heinous stuff too (Alien and Sedition Acts, anyone?) And then there was Monroe, who basically set things up for all the atrocities in Central and South America that would follow him.

I'm trying to remember the three (now four, if you count Dubya) Presidents who lost the popular vote but won the electoral. I know there hadn't been one in a long time, leading many to the mistaken conception that 2000's election was the first time it had ever happened. But there were three others. I just can't remember which they were.

Monique · Sep 17, 2002, 03:15 PM

FDR and Clinton

mchladek · Sep 17, 2002, 03:19 PM

FDR

ringo · Sep 17, 2002, 03:19 PM

Washington...for growing the wacky weed and hanging out with freemasons

I really can't say...every president has unique challenges while in office so it's hard to use the same yardstick to compare them.

Is a president who was challenged my his era 'better' than one who lived through easier times?

Credit to Lincoln, just because he had to deal with a difficult time and had to make many hard decisions (both policy and personal) while in the white house. Yeah, he suspended Habeaus Corpus during the Civil War, but he forced the south to free the slaves AND stay in the union, so I'm willing to overlook some of his more questionable decisions and background flaws.

Oh yeah, Teddy was a badass. Cannot be debated. Gets my vote for "President most likely to win in an all-era presidential death match."

I don't like Reagan bacause of his wacky economic policies (Trickle-wha?), but I still have to give him credit as the best man for the job during the cold war.

Captain Obvious · Sep 17, 2002, 03:28 PM

Originally posted by Codename:
Bill Clinton.

No seriously, please explain what he did that was so great. Because the economy's success was not his doing. No one man can take credit for that. I am curious why someone would pick him and give no real explanation.
And god bless you all for not saying Kennedy. Its tragic what happened but he really didn't do anything that amazing. Its just romanticism that carries his popularity along with babyboomer nostalgia.

MadMacs · 02:50 AM

MadMacs · 02:50 AM

thunderous_funker · Sep 17, 2002, 03:54 PM

Originally posted by MadMacs:

We no longer have to worry about human extinction because of nuclear war.

You must have missed that whole India/Pakistan thing a few months back.

fxbezak · Sep 17, 2002, 03:55 PM

Originally posted by Captain Obvious:

No seriously, please explain what he did that was so great. Because the economy's success was not his doing. No one man can take credit for that. I am curious why someone would pick him and give no real explanation.
And god bless you all for not saying Kennedy. Its tragic what happened but he really didn't do anything that amazing. Its just romanticism that carries his popularity along with babyboomer nostalgia.

Captian Obvious you are really my hero. I can tell you know where its at.

Best Pres: Ronald Reagan..by far

thunderous_funker · Sep 17, 2002, 03:56 PM

Originally posted by MadMacs:
Oh,

and Reagon's big tax cuts brought on the great prosperity that we enjoyed the last 8 years.

Personal debt drove the prosperity of the 90's. In the US, more people declare bankrupcy each year than graduate from college.

Hugi · Sep 17, 2002, 03:59 PM

I am sorry to invade on this private American discussion :-), but based on my (admittedly limited) knowledge of the presidents of USA, I am inclined to give my vote to Woodrow Wilson.

He sent American troops to defeat the Germans in WWI, conceived the League of Nations - and had his views been more influential when the Versailles treaty was being drafted, WWII would probably never have happened.

I have no idea how he fared on domestic issues, though.

typoon · Sep 17, 2002, 04:02 PM

Originally posted by hugi:
I am sorry to invade on this private American discussion :-), but based on my (admittedly limited) knowledge of the presidents of USA, I am inclined to give my vote to Woodrow Wilson.

He sent American troops to defeat the Germans in WWI, conceived the League of Nations - and had his views been more influential when the Versailles treaty was being drafted, WWII would probably never have happened.

I have no idea how he fared on domestic issues, though.

It's not a Private American Discussion by any means. Most people in other countries sometimes know more about our country than we do. Feel free to join in. It's not a closed forum

El Pre$idente · Sep 17, 2002, 04:11 PM

All of them were and are hypocrites and whores.

BTW, the India v.s Pakistan thing is a big dramatic joke. Nothing will happen there.

thunderous_funker · Sep 17, 2002, 04:11 PM

Originally posted by hugi:
I am sorry to invade on this private American discussion :-), but based on my (admittedly limited) knowledge of the presidents of USA, I am inclined to give my vote to Woodrow Wilson.

He sent American troops to defeat the Germans in WWI, conceived the League of Nations - and had his views been more influential when the Versailles treaty was being drafted, WWII would probably never have happened.

I have no idea how he fared on domestic issues, though.

Outside view is more than welcome.

Sadly you've stumbled onto something key in this discussion. Historically US presidents have been either domestic heros and foreign villians or vice versa. Some have been villians at both, but i'm having a hard time thinking of anyone who was a hero at both.

Often the "great" presidents are just the lucky ones who happen to have lucky timing (domestic talent during peace or foriegn policy talent during conflict) and the "worst" presidents are those with the opposite luck (LBJ jumps to mind). Simply the wrong man for the wrong time.

I'm shocked at all the Reaganites, though. Obviously not a lot of MacNNer's are from central america. Do people really still think that trickle down economics works?? (I suppose if you realize that it trickles from John D Rockefeller to Nelson Rockafeller....)

SimeyTheLimey · Sep 17, 2002, 04:22 PM

Originally posted by thunderous_funker:
Sadly you've stumbled onto something key in this discussion. Historically US presidents have been either domestic heros and foreign villians or vice versa.

And we also judge them by their personal qualities. Woodrow Wilson, for example, was in his personal life a rather vicious racist.

Presidents are also judged by results, and on results Wilson also falls flat. He may have inspired the League of Nations, but his inability to get it ratified in the Senate helped doom the organization. That in turn largely led to World War II. He's generally regarded as a failed president who left no appreciable legacy (other than a resegregated Civil Service).

austeros · Sep 17, 2002, 04:32 PM

the top tier consists of Washington, FDR and Lincoln.

these are the men who made the biggest most important decisions in this country. no one else comes close.

clinton and reagan? you have got to be kidding me. reagan is responisible for the nuclear buildup and the national debt. sure he killed the soviet union, but that didnt really solve anything. Clinton didnt do anything major. his big issue, national healthcare crashed and burned, eliminating any chance he had to make a difference. sure the economy was good, but to say he was responsible for it is a laugh. funny how neither did anything as important as holding the country togeather or pulling the country out of the great depression.

Hugi · 07:44 PM

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
And we also judge them by their personal qualities. Woodrow Wilson, for example, was in his personal life a rather vicious racist.

Presidents are also judged by results, and on results Wilson also falls flat. He may have inspired the League of Nations, but his inability to get it ratified in the Senate helped doom the organization. That in turn largely led to World War II. He's generally regarded as a failed president who left no appreciable legacy (other than a resegregated Civil Service).

I didn't know about WW's racism, but that's sad.

I don't agree that he was a failure, though. Although he did fail to get US membership to the League of nations past the Senate, due to vigourous opposition posed by the Republicans, The League did indeed survive, and although not very influential in it's time, it served as an important precursor to the UN.

So blaming Wilson for the Republican senators' lack of vision (and even largely for WWII) is a rather "interesting" argument to say the least. Visionaries' dreams don't always come true during their lifetime, and I would definately say Wilson left the world a little better than when he found it.

But as you say, that does not ratify his apparent failure at home. And on the whole, I would rather prefer American presidents focus more on domestic issues and less on foreign intervention. don't you agree?

ink · Sep 17, 2002, 05:12 PM

Originally posted by Captain Obvious:
And god bless you all for not saying Kennedy. Its tragic what happened but he really didn't do anything that amazing. Its just romanticism that carries his popularity along with babyboomer nostalgia.

Well, he founded one of the only worthwhile (in my book) government agencies: NASA

zigzag · Sep 17, 2002, 05:23 PM

"If everyone sat down and shut up for five minutes, the world would be a much better place."

Calvin Coolidge

nredman · Sep 17, 2002, 05:28 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ::maroma:::
[B]Abe's da man yo! I mean, just look at him!

--- abe is my vote as well.

Phanguye · Sep 17, 2002, 05:39 PM

fdr technically set the us up for any amount of huge spending by increasing government spending so much

and reagons trickle down economcis was a lot better idea in my idea then a non-flat tax

lenkman · Sep 17, 2002, 05:42 PM

FIrst, I would limit this discussion to prior to 1980. It is impossible to know which President is "great" and which isn't during his lifetime. After all, Truman was despised after he left office. Yet he was pretty damn good.

So, best of all of the dead Presidents? The best politician was, by far, Jackson. Best with domestic stuff: Lincoln. Best international leader: FDR and Wilson (tie).

Overall, our best dead President was probably TR. Besides making the US a force in international relations (albeit for a short while), he reinvented his party and, in his spare time, launched the environmental movement, squelched the political bosses, and pretty much reinvented the office of the American Presidency.

putamare · Sep 17, 2002, 05:48 PM

Andrew Jackson for giving Charles Dickinson the first shot.

Adam Betts · Sep 17, 2002, 06:19 PM

Like it or not, Bill Clinton is still the best president ever.

I don't really care about his personal problems anyway. If president can't get blow job then he isn't a human being.

macvillage.net · Sep 17, 2002, 07:01 PM

Hard to say:

Nixon wasn't bad... he just got caught for doing what everyone else did.

FDR was a great president hands down.

Clinton kept the economy up, pants down, country out of war, and himself out of... anyway... the only reason he kept us out of was was ignorance. He knew the world was becoming unstable, and he had the ability to fix it if he wanted. He just let it go. He knew that he should have insisted more on the Isreal/Palestine issue, but instead he treated it as a PR stunt. Same goes for the Al-Queda issue. Should have got them after the Cole incident. Overall, OK, but didn't think long term (goes for his personal life as well). He had a good work ethic though.. Up early, worked late every night, worked weekends. I respect that.

Regan - the last real president... Why? Because he had some balls. "The bombing begins in 15 minutes" need I say more? Any president since denies everything even after we watch it on TV. Regan knew what had to be done and got it done. Now that's a president.

Herber Hoover - Reall not a bad guy, didn't do anything wrong... Just picked the wrong time to run. If he ran 8 years earlier, he would have been loved.

Over Rated:

JFK - Short run, almost caused a nuclear war (historians have proven that we came less than 15 minutes from it), which could have been prevented... Economically, not that great, ignored many key issues of the time such as the Civil Rights movement. Could have really turned this country arround during his administration. The only reason he is well liked is because the women liked him, he shagged Monroe, and came from a rich "all American" family funded by illegal money.

Abe Lincoln - In truth really liked slavery. It was good for the economy at the time (which is true). He only wanted the south to stay part of the union because it meant a lot to the GNP. Didn't care really. He was a wise man, but not quite so much as he is talked up as.

Greatest: George Washington - he beat the British. Greatest general America ever had. Need I say more. Classy guy.

olePigeon · Sep 17, 2002, 07:23 PM

Hate to break it to you, but the Cold War didn't end with Reagan. We agreed to a cease fire. The Cold War officially ended during the Clinton administration. Although they called it a "new cold war," it was still the same one.

I think the best presidents were Franklin Roosevelt, Wilson, and Clinton. My favorite foreign leaders are Napoleon and Churchill.

Originally posted by MadMacs:
Reagon is da man!

He made the most important contribution to the world. He brought an end to the cold war.

We no longer have to worry about human extinction because of nuclear war.

lenkman · Sep 17, 2002, 07:38 PM

Originally posted by olePigeon:
Hate to break it to you, but the Cold War didn't end with Reagan. We agreed to a cease fire. The Cold War officially ended during the Clinton administration. Although they called it a "new cold war," it was still the same one.

Okay, I'll take the bait. Can somebody please explain to me how the Cold War ended under Clinton? The Soviet Union collapsed in August, 1991, which, in fact, was during the Bush administration. However, the true end of the Cold War was when the Soviets stopped trying to achieve global domination, which was marked by the fall of the Berlin Wall, which happened in November, 1989 (again, under Bush, but only a few months into his term).

Russian - American relations were on pretty good standing by the time Clinton took office in January, 1993.

Clinton will probably be regarded as the greatest politician President of the 20th century, but that's about it. (aside from the guy who couldn't keep his pants up)

austeros · Sep 17, 2002, 07:56 PM

Originally posted by lenkman:
The best politician was, by far, Jackson.

Originally posted by putamare:
Andrew Jackson for giving Charles Dickinson the first shot.

oh yeah, aswell as eliminating countless "savages" as he systimatically broke the will of the native americans as he drove them out of their lands. yeah this guy, a man who pissed on the rulings of the supreme court as well as the constitution, was clearly a great man.

andrew jackson is almost as bad as stalin or hitler, only thing is no one was around to stop him.

Face Ache · Sep 17, 2002, 08:00 PM

Michael Douglas.

austeros · Sep 17, 2002, 08:36 PM

Originally posted by Face Ache:
Michael Douglas.

here here

damn, cant believe i didnt think of that

docbud · Sep 17, 2002, 08:38 PM

Harry Truman

Montanan · Sep 17, 2002, 08:52 PM

Nah ... Kevin Kline was a much better president than Michael Douglas was!

SimeyTheLimey · Sep 17, 2002, 09:08 PM

Originally posted by Captain Obvious:
And god bless you all for not saying Kennedy. Its tragic what happened but he really didn't do anything that amazing. Its just romanticism that carries his popularity along with babyboomer nostalgia.

Originally posted by ink:
Well, he founded one of the only worthwhile (in my book) government agencies: NASA

Sorry to burst a bubble, but Kennedy didn't found NASA. It was founded under Eisenhower in 1958. National Aeronautics and Space Act of 1958.

Adam Betts · Sep 17, 2002, 09:14 PM

Originally posted by lenkman:
(aside from the guy who couldn't keep his pants up)

Grow up. If you were president, you would do the same thing

ThinkInsane · Sep 17, 2002, 09:28 PM

Calvin Coolidge. You have to respect cool Cal, if for no other reason than if someone showed up at the White House for a meeting, and he didn't feel like dealing with them, he would climb out the window and down the rose tressle and just split for a while. He's the reason they took that rose tressle down. Maybe that doesn't make him the best President, but it makes him my favorite.

I really can't see how Clinton could rank number one. I would say he was pretty middle of the road as far as greatness goes. He didn't really accomplish anything of too much importance.

usedmac · Sep 17, 2002, 09:39 PM

I find it funny how nobody has answered Captain Obvious' question. If Clinton is so great, please tell us why. In my opinon, the tech boom was going to happen no matter who was president. Prove me wrong. And being able to "get some" from an overweight secretary does not count as a reason for him being great.

My vote goes to Regan. Anyone that has the balls to fire all the air traffic controllers and end the cold war gets my vote.

Hugi · Sep 17, 2002, 09:52 PM

Originally posted by usedmac:
My vote goes to Regan. Anyone that has the balls to fire all the air traffic controllers and end the cold war gets my vote.

Let's get one thing perfectly straight: No US president can take any credit, not Reagan nor anyone, for ending the Cold War. The Soviet Union collapsed in due time, and if we can "thank" anyone for that, it is Mikhail Gorbachev, who through reforms showed the Soviet population a glimpse of what freedom could be like.

MacGorilla · Sep 17, 2002, 10:01 PM

Greatest? Hmmm....
Lincoln
FDR
Reagan

Least appreciated:
Truman
Carter

jcadam · 10:21 PM

Originally posted by Adam Betts:

Grow up. If you were president, you would do the same thing

I would have done the same if I were president AND:

1.) didn't give a sh*t about my wife and family
2.) Had absolutely no understanding of what it means to be a leader.
3.) Had no sense of honor. At all
4.) didn't give a sh*t about my reputation. Or the reputation of my country.
5.) Actually thought Monica Lewinsky was :HOT:

Anyways, my picks:

The Best:

Washington (set the standard, established the 2-term tradition which was observed by every president until FDR).

Regean (probably the last great president America will ever have).

The Worst:

Clinton (total sleazewad. I think so little of this miserable excuse for a human being that words can't describe my disgust with those people who would rate him as the best president in the history of the US. The President SHOULD be held to a higher standard than the average citizen. Just so you know, a US military officer caught in an adulturous affair would be ejected from service. I suppose some of you think that violating a standard you hold your suboordinates to is indicative of good leadership).

FDR (Thanks for the welfare state, jackass. Not necessarily a bad guy personally (well, he had his failings but he's a saint next to Bill Clinton), just dumb. Didn't understand economics at all, either (though the depression would still have been plenty bad without his meddling).