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MSN for OSX
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bluejam
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May 11, 2003, 09:49 AM
 
Anybody check this out on Mactopia? It actually "looks" pretty good. Any idea what it will cost? Supposed to be up and running by end of the month. What exactly is it? M$ version of the overpriced .Mac? Trust me, not trolling...just curious as it *is* pretty.
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moonmonkey
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May 11, 2003, 09:57 AM
 
Originally posted by bluejam:
Anybody check this out on Mactopia? It actually "looks" pretty good. Any idea what it will cost? Supposed to be up and running by end of the month. What exactly is it? M$ version of the overpriced .Mac? Trust me, not trolling...just curious as it *is* pretty.
Yes, im quite curious, I will give the demo a wirl when it comes out, it does look nice, I like the butterfly.
     
coolmacdude
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May 11, 2003, 12:04 PM
 
Originally posted by bluejam:
Anybody check this out on Mactopia? It actually "looks" pretty good. Any idea what it will cost? Supposed to be up and running by end of the month. What exactly is it? M$ version of the overpriced .Mac? Trust me, not trolling...just curious as it *is* pretty.
It might look good from the outside, but under the hood it probably has the same 10 dozen fatal security holes and system flaws that all their other software does. I refuse to support a company that continues to churn out trash by the bucketload and at the same time tries to drive developers of good programs out of business.
     
ASIMO
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May 11, 2003, 12:08 PM
 
People, people. Do you realize what a butterfly is, essentially? That's right. A bug.

Oh, how I love the irony.
I, ASIMO.
     
gorickey
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May 11, 2003, 09:02 PM
 
Originally posted by ASIMO:
People, people. Do you realize what a butterfly is, essentially? That's right. A bug.

Oh, how I love the irony.
Haha, nice.

     
voodoo
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May 11, 2003, 09:12 PM
 
MSN for OSX. It seems too Windowsy for me. If you got Safari + iCal + Adress Book + Mail.app ... you have MSN, but better. And free. You can enhance it with $99 .Mac service. Viol�.

Why M$ pushes this crap instead of porting the really important stuff properly is beyond me. I'd like to see WiMP 9 ported and a new version of Office v.X.
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gorickey
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May 11, 2003, 09:35 PM
 
Originally posted by voodoo:
I'd like to see WiMP 9 ported and a new version of Office v.X.
Amen, WMP needs the new 9 codec immediately...I can't listen to anything on the web anymore it seems that needs WMP to run because of this.
     
OptimusG4
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May 12, 2003, 12:17 AM
 
I got an email saying sometime this month, as well as an offer of 2 months free for signing up. We'll see.
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trusted_content
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May 12, 2003, 12:43 AM
 
We've been using AOL for about 10 years and will probably be migrating over to MSN when it comes out for OS X. (don't ask why.... I could rant for days)
I offer strictly b2b web-based server-side enterprise solutions for growing e-business trusted content providers ;]
     
waffffffle
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May 12, 2003, 02:53 AM
 
MSN is not the same as .Mac. .Mac is an internet services suite (email, web hosting, etc) while MSN is an actual ISP, providing dialup access to the internet. MSN is similar to AOL in that it uses proprietary sofware instead of standard PPP dialup. The real advantage in this kind of service is that it is easy for a novice user to install and use. AOL, while terrible for advanced users, is perfect for someone lke my grandmother who doesn't really understand what she's doing on teh computer. MSN and AOL put everything in one place with a pretty interface. It seems that MSN for OS X will be much better than AOL but we'll have to see if that is true. I'm definitely going to try it out but I really have no use for it so I probably won't keep it. My family has AOL but I don't use it (except for using my screen name on AIM). My mother users our account now at home (which is pointless because we have cable modem service). My grandmother has her own account. My sister uses AOL accasionally.
     
Superchicken
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May 12, 2003, 08:19 AM
 
M$N is evil... I'd kinda like to try out the browser... but.. not that much... would make far more sense as a windows app... the whole tons of programs within a program concept doesn't fit well with me, if I want a calander I'll have an app that does that, if I want an adress book I'll have an app that has that, if I want instant messaging I'll have app that does that.

The only point when two apps in one is good is if you want for example two IM services, there you get the tasks of two similar apps togeather. Sometimes e-mail and browsers can work the same way but I still preffer seperate clients.
     
Graymalkin
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May 12, 2003, 08:52 AM
 
MSN already has an integrated browser for Windows, it's called MSN Explorer. It is a combination dialer/brwoser for accessing MSN. There is nothing at all special about MSN Explorer, the HTML rendering engine is just IE and the dialer is just using Windows DUN to make the connection. All MSN Explorer does is put a pretty and ostensibly easy to use shell on top of the whole process. If you're an MSN subscriber you can access your account from anywhere you want from just about any OS you want. All of MSN's services live on the web and are all linked by Microsoft's Passport technology.

AOL on the otherhand is still its own private network but now has a web gateway for their services. AOL also still uses a proprietary dial-up protocol which means a AOL client is required to use AOL's dial-up. MSN's dialup is plain PPP with CHAP authentication, the same as Earthlink and all the other small fries. AOL uses a protocol called P3 which is a work in process with regards to reverse engineering. A GPLed project called Pengaol or "Peng" is working on deconstructing AOL's dialup protocol which was modified a bit with AOL 7's release as I understand it.

Apple's .Mac is like AOL or MSN's web services sans the dial-up aspect. Whether MSN's Mactopia offering will make any headway against .Mac remains to be seen. I do however think it might get some Mac users who are constantly and consistantly looked over as potential customers by other ISPs. MSN's service under Windows with or without using MSN Explorer is a braindead process to get working, more braindead using the Explorer. If MSN offers Mac users more Mac specific service than AOL and Earthlink do I'd wager it would see an influx of Mac owning subscribers. Microsoft would just like their logo on the screens of more people, even if those people are using Macs.
     
OldManMac
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May 12, 2003, 09:47 AM
 
The question I have yet to answer is....why? Doesn't Gates have enough money already?
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deharlow
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May 13, 2003, 11:38 PM
 
I think this was part of a deal that MS made with Qwest when they purchased their Internet service. MS had to continue supporting Mac users on the service and offer the same features I believe.

Daniel
     
brainchild2b
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May 14, 2003, 07:26 AM
 
Originally posted by coolmacdude:
It might look good from the outside, but under the hood it probably has the same 10 dozen fatal security holes and system flaws that all their other software does. I refuse to support a company that continues to churn out trash by the bucketload and at the same time tries to drive developers of good programs out of business.
Hmm another tready user. You do realize that apache, sendmail, bind, and unix products open source projects have had more patches and security flaws than most windows software.

Hardly a day goes by without another apache, or some other security flaw or bug being added to bugtraq.

Stop being so trending. Microsoft has made some really great strides with some of it's newer products.

Steve Balmer also recently comment on how "we read the message loud and clear, security is priority number #1 with our customers." Windows 2003 and many of there other products are finally shipping "secure" out of the box.

Microsoft makes two killer products:

Microsoft Office
Microsoft Internet Explorer

I don't know about you, but I've never been hacked, or attacked because I used either of these products.

My windows box has never been hacked, because I have it locked down (it took some work)

Please just need to keep more of an open mind.

Open source and uber geeks rag on Microsoft for being elitists, but in reality the open source crowd is one of the biggest bunch of elitest pricks i know.

just something that has been frustrating me forever. Not to mention most open source is just an excuse for crappy GUIs and horrible software that takes you back to the days of Microsoft DOS.
     
nsxpower
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May 14, 2003, 09:54 AM
 
Please just need to keep more of an open mind.

Open source and uber geeks rag on Microsoft for being elitists, but in reality the open source crowd is one of the biggest bunch of elitest pricks i know.

just something that has been frustrating me forever. Not to mention most open source is just an excuse for crappy GUIs and horrible software that takes you back to the days of Microsoft DOS.
Amen.
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Appleman
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May 14, 2003, 11:30 AM
 
Originally posted by ASIMO:
People, people. Do you realize what a butterfly is, essentially? That's right. A bug.
     
Producer
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May 14, 2003, 12:44 PM
 
I hope they either switch to webcore to run MSN (yah right) or atleast update the IE engine on the mac otherwise I don't see the point...but if they do that... then my brother can stop asking me why he can't use his MSN explorer on the mac... grrr
     
cgc
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May 14, 2003, 04:00 PM
 
Originally posted by gorickey:
Amen, WMP needs the new 9 codec immediately...I can't listen to anything on the web anymore it seems that needs WMP to run because of this.
Leave to Microsoft to NEVER follow the widely accepted standards for ANYTHING. They think they can "invent" any crappy format and pimp it hard.
     
Tominator
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May 15, 2003, 03:54 AM
 
Originally posted by ASIMO:
People, people. Do you realize what a butterfly is, essentially? That's right. A bug.

Oh, how I love the irony.
Actually butterflies, members of the Lepidoptera order, are technically not bugs. True bugs are members of the order Hemiptera.
     
Mr Scruff
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May 15, 2003, 04:41 AM
 
Originally posted by brainchild2b:
Open source and uber geeks rag on Microsoft for being elitists, but in reality the open source crowd is one of the biggest bunch of elitest pricks i know.

just something that has been frustrating me forever. Not to mention most open source is just an excuse for crappy GUIs and horrible software that takes you back to the days of Microsoft DOS.
If you're talking about the command-line interface then you're misinformed. One of the main reasons people use Apache is because it has a CL interface. There's a lot of software out there that isn't suited to a GUI, and the problem with GUI focused systems is that they don't scale well on a large network of systems.
     
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May 15, 2003, 04:45 AM
 
Originally posted by Tominator:
Actually butterflies, members of the Lepidoptera order, are technically not bugs. True bugs are members of the order Hemiptera.
To which order do the nitpickers belong to?
Nasrudin sat on a river bank when someone shouted to him from the opposite side: "Hey! how do I get across?" "You are across!" Nasrudin shouted back.
     
klinux
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May 15, 2003, 06:43 AM
 
Originally posted by Tominator:
Actually butterflies, members of the Lepidoptera order, are technically not bugs. True bugs are members of the order Hemiptera.
I was waiting for this...
     
OptimusG4
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May 15, 2003, 08:46 AM
 
"Another classic science-fiction show cancelled before its time" ~ Bender

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OptimusG4
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May 15, 2003, 08:59 AM
 
Originally posted by OptimusG4:
It's out.

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Appleman
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May 15, 2003, 09:05 AM
 
Originally posted by OptimusG4:
It's out.
Now try to open this in Safari

Which Mac-user is going to want software from a company which makes these horrible websites?
     
brainchild2b
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May 15, 2003, 10:05 AM
 
Can you actually download it? I'm curious to see if it's using the new Internet Explorer code.
     
brainchild2b
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May 15, 2003, 10:10 AM
 
Originally posted by Mr Scruff:
If you're talking about the command-line interface then you're misinformed. One of the main reasons people use Apache is because it has a CL interface. There's a lot of software out there that isn't suited to a GUI, and the problem with GUI focused systems is that they don't scale well on a large network of systems.

Actually people use Apache because it's open source and most important to companies because it's FREE and more widely accepted.

The command line is great for apache because nobody has thought up anything else innovative. I'm willing to be somebody somewhere could at lease come up with something else to use in addition to to command line with it. (compliment it)


I use apache myself in (I'm involved in webhosting so I'm very familar with open source)

I just hate microsoft bashing, that serves no purpose other than to place oneself with a trendy crowd of greeks.
     
OptimusG4
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May 15, 2003, 10:12 AM
 
Originally posted by brainchild2b:
Can you actually download it? I'm curious to see if it's using the new Internet Explorer code.
Downloaded, installed, and deleted. New IE code? Doubtful, since a lot of CSS issues with IE 5.2 still remain with MSN.
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dfiler
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May 15, 2003, 10:36 AM
 
Originally posted by brainchild2b:
Actually people use Apache because it's open source and most important to companies because it's FREE and more widely accepted.

The command line is great for apache because nobody has thought up anything else innovative. I'm willing to be somebody somewhere could at lease come up with something else to use in addition to to command line with it. (compliment it)
Actually... most people use apache because its free and works well at its task of web serving. Open source? 99% of apache users couldn't care less.

There are also dozens or perhaps more than a hundred graphical front-ends for apache... so its already been thunk up, no need to wait. OSX's Start/Stop button is perhaps just the most simplified front-end.

Back on topic:

MSN seems a bit late to the ISP and web-applications game. But then again, MS can stand to loose millions for a few years while undercutting the competition's price. It does seem to be their standard business model.

However, I do think there is a demand for a computing environment which follows you around no matter where you work. This stems from a desire to do away with the inconvenience of synching between multiple locations. I wonder how well MSN does at addressing this underlying need... or if it just manages to add yet another layer of software for the user to deal with.

Any user reports yet?
     
anoetic
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May 15, 2003, 10:55 AM
 
Has anyone else noticed that the MSN dashboard feature looks incredibly similiar to the new Longhorn interface.

Will this be the new interface for all MS products? or are they guinea pigging Mac users with the new interface?
     
OptimusG4
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May 15, 2003, 10:56 AM
 
Originally posted by anoetic:
Has anyone else noticed that the MSN dashboard feature looks incredibly similiar to the new Longhorn interface.

Will this be the new interface for all MS products? or are they guinea pigging Mac users with the new interface?
Its been there for MSN for Windows since version 6 or 7 actually.
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