[Maayan]

Dude. All of this speculation is fun to read, really, it is --

However, has there been any hints FROM APPLE (or an equally reliable source) that a new G5 Powerbook is coming out? That's what I'd like to know.

[SierraDragon]

No reliable hints that I have been able to find.

I received a new 17" PB from Apple Aug 27, did the install, and found that the click pad has an intermittent failure. I chatted with Apple and they say that they will send me an email that will allow me to return my defective PB for a new PB. They say they will ship the new PB as soon as I have a FedX tracking number on the return of the defective unit. Very fair, and since I have not received the email to facilitate processing the return yet it looks like I will get a look at whatever happens Tuesday in Paris before the deal is fully complete. Since I heavily use the Adobe Creative Suite of apps, I do need all the power I can get. My guess is that a faster hard drive and/or faster GPU for X.4 when it is released would be significantly beneficial for my uses.

I bought this box now because I needed to upgrade an 800 MHz TiBook, but what I really need is a G5 PB and it looks like mid-2005 before that can happen.

Folks saying that they would prefer dual G4 to single G5 perhaps are not graphics professionals. Obviously it depends on the specific chip speeds and architecture, but in general going forward I would rather have a single 1.8 G5 than a dual 1.25 G4. I buy for the next two years, and in 2006 I would rather be running Photoshop 9 and its ilk on a G5. OS X, Photoshop and the rest of the Creative Suite are already (2004) optimized for G5s, not for G4s. Best would be dual processor G5s, but I doubt if the technology to handle that much heat will be street-ready until late 2005 at the very earliest.

Note that IMO the fact is that G4 PBs are a generally poor platform for graphics as compared to desktop boxes (my current desktop is a dual 1GB G4).

[anamexis]

Originally posted by SierraDragon:


Folks saying that they would prefer dual G4 to single G5 perhaps are not graphics professionals. Obviously it depends on the specific chip speeds and architecture, but in general going forward I would rather have a single 1.8 G5 than a dual 1.25 G4. I buy for the next two years, and in 2006 I would rather be running Photoshop 9 and its ilk on a G5. OS X, Photoshop and the rest of the Creative Suite are already (2004) optimized for G5s, not for G4s. Best would be dual processor G5s, but I doubt if the technology to handle that much heat will be street-ready until late 2005 at the very earliest.

Uh, Photoshop is definitely optimized for G4 (AltiVec), and definitely optimized for dual processor work. Which would you prefer, 1.8GHz G5, or dual core 2GHz G4?

People are too fast to dismiss the dual core G4 as a really awesome advance. We're talking very high speed dual processor G4s in a Powerbook. This is some serious power! And perhaps more importantly, we know that Motorola/Freescale is almost done with development of thi s chip.

[SierraDragon]

Dual processing is always desirable, but when compared against a single more modern processor I guess we have to see the specific choices. Actual clock speeds and as built architecture will be important factors. In desktop boxes when we had the choice of 1.8 SP G5 versus 1.25 DP G4, the single G5 was preferable for real world graphics work.

Obviously PS and OS X were optimized for Altivec and G4s in the past (2002 and earlier), but what Apple and Adobe have been optimizing for since 2003 has been G5 processing.

[Link]

Wow man technically you're a clutz.

The ONLY good reason to buy a single processor G5 over a dual processor G4 is the AGP 8x slot... and if you're going to be using PCI X, then PCI-X, which I highly doubt since once that goes mainstream so does PCI express.. which will be much better.

Clock for clock the G4 and G5 are about the same in speed: A 1.5ghz G4 would run up against a 1.5ghz G5 with absolutely no problems. Memory bandwidth might be a different story, but I doubt it.

Some people are just stuck up with marketing. 64 bit processors are practically useless unless you A. Work with REALLY big files, B. Need a crapload of ram, or C. Need 64bit addressing.

Conventionally laptops don't have more than 2 memory slots so a 64bit processor would be useless. We already know that FW800 in a powerbook is pretty much a waste of space since well, unless you're directly writing out to a very fast solid state or scsi based hard drive (or maybe a raid box), you're not using that at all.. same idea.

A 2ghz 970fx would probably put out as much heat as 2 1.8ghz G4s, while providing VERY little advantage unless it had DAMN GOOD speed/power slewing.

That and the fact in order to totally take advantage of such a machine it better start with a ~9200 or 9600, 7200rpm hard drive (apple doesn't even OFFER these anymore), and a well designed board..

Granted that, you'd also have to worry about the system controller which puts out as much heat as the processor. I suppose the fact it's G5 and possibly 2ghz would save you though.

A dual processor machine has 2x the processor bandwidth which means while you're doing some huge ass 3d render you can be doing something else without significantly slowing that down, or simply doing it about 80% faster than if you were only using ONE processor. Ouch... Most apps like photoshop happen to be dual processor aware too

[Pierre B.]

Originally posted by Link:

Clock for clock the G4 and G5 are about the same in speed: A 1.5ghz G4 would run up against a 1.5ghz G5 with absolutely no problems.

In general tasks it is something like that, but in floating point operations the G5 has twice the power of a G4 at the same clock speed (don't forget that the G4 is perhaps the last and only modern processor with a single FPU unit; the G5 has two of them).

Memory bandwidth might be a different story, but I doubt it.

Don't doubt a second. In bandwidth intensive operations a G5 will eat a G4 for breakfast. Someone posted here (look at the beginning of the discussion) the results of the same test (rendering of a 600 MB video file) on a dual G4 1 GHz and a dual G5 2.5 GHz. You will be surprised to see that the G5 is not 2.5 times faster, as the clock speed ratio would let you assume, but about 15 times faster.

Conventionally laptops don't have more than 2 memory slots so a 64bit processor would be useless.

Indeed, I don't see the point of 64-bit processor in a Powerbook the moment when there is no way to physically install more than 4 GB of RAM.

A 2ghz 970fx would probably put out as much heat as 2 1.8ghz G4s, while providing VERY little advantage unless it had DAMN GOOD speed/power slewing.

In the recent months it has been made clear, more or less, that although the 970 FX has about the same power requirements as an equally clocked G4, this refers only to typical power consumption. The maximum power a G5 would require is about the double of the typical values. I am not yet convinced that a G5, as we know it today, even with the Power Tune technology, would be as convenient as a G4 for the slim Powerbooks, in terms of power consumption.

Granted that, you'd also have to worry about the system controller which puts out as much heat as the processor. I suppose the fact it's G5 and possibly 2ghz would save you though.

I am not aware of the exact figures, but it is known that the system controller of a G5 requires much power.

A dual processor machine has 2x the processor bandwidth...

This is true on G5 systems but not on G4 ones. However, the new e600 processor cures exactly this chronic G4 pathology with the system integration it has (featuring a RapidIO interface instead of the anemic G4 FSB). If Freescale delivers in time and Apple decides to use the new e600s, then this is very good news for the Powerbooks. It is Freescale/Motorola and not IBM the source of low-power and high-performance, at the same time, chips. For now at least.

For the time being though, it seems that there will be another Powerbook update with a little faster G4. Perhaps the rumored 7448.

[pvito]

I noticed that the powerbooks in the apple store still say "new"....

i don't think we will be seeing new pbs for another few months

They still have not shipped my 12" superdrive, 80GB yet.....

[freakboy2]

i orderd a powerbook 12 inch w./ superdrive and it's slated to ship in a day or so.

maybe it was something else in your bto that's slowing it down.. did you get a gig of ram?

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[pvito]

I order the larger HD 80GB...

Originally they also told me that it would ship in 1-3 days.....

Hope you have better luck than me!

[freakboy2]

yeah that's what i got too.. dang i hope they don't bump it.. what a drag that would be.

i got the 80 gig hd & superdrive.. no extra ram as apple's prices are akin to robbery.

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[freakboy2]

can anyone confirm having been shipped a g4 12 inch w/ 80 gig drive in the last week or so? I'm curious if i'm gonna get bumped. I'd rather cancel my order and get an upgraded one than get a good deal on an ipod.

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[pvito]

Actually, I got mine today! Apple's order status site didn't update as being shipped until it arrived at my brother's house today.

Now I have to drive an hour to his house to get it! Just in time. I have a few jobs that need to be done by this weekend.....

[freakboy2]

Originally posted by pvito:
Actually, I got mine today! Apple's order status site didn't update as being shipped until it arrived at my brother's house today.

Now I have to drive an hour to his house to get it! Just in time. I have a few jobs that need to be done by this weekend.....

that indeed rules.. I hope to get mine soon then too..

i got a bunch of invoices but not for the ipod or laptop yet.. i guess when they send you those it means that they've shipped.

not long now!
woot!

[Lancer409]

wow .. lots o new powerbook owners as of late. i now know five other people with pb12's

[freakboy2]

ok mine shipped !! Woot!!

yeehaa!! I can't wait!

[urrl78]

http://macrumors.com/

New Powerbook owners should have no regrets according to this.

[freakboy2]

Originally posted by urrl78:
http://macrumors.com/

New Powerbook owners should have no regrets according to this.

yeah the fact that the heatsink in the imac weighs like 5 pounds would be a tipoff.. i think we're more wondering if there's going to be a speed bump sometime soon. i wouldn't be suprised to see an update that includes more base ram or bigger hd's

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[Dave Hagan]

I called Apple and it seemed as though the delay in getting my replacement 17-in. PowerBook was due to a dopey clerical error.

[pvito]

Yeah, no regrets here...

I've been using my new 12" for a couple of days now and its sweet! Should be getting the 1GB of ram in the mail today!

hey freakboy2 did you get your pb yet? I order 1gb from OWC for $199... I know some people have seen it for slightly cheaper though.

[Randman]

Originally posted by SierraDragon:
I received a new 17" PB from Apple Aug 27, did the install, and found that the click pad has an intermittent failure.

Can you pm/e-mail me or give some details about the click pad troubles? I got a 17 two weeks ago and the click pad is quite stiff, and I'm wonder if it might have problems attached with it as well.

[Pierre B.]

Originally posted by freakboy2:
i think we're more wondering if there's going to be a speed bump sometime soon.

I would not count much on that before this year's end.

[freakboy2]

Originally posted by pvito:
Yeah, no regrets here...

I've been using my new 12" for a couple of days now and its sweet! Should be getting the 1GB of ram in the mail today!

hey freakboy2 did you get your pb yet? I order 1gb from OWC for $199... I know some people have seen it for slightly cheaper though.

it looks like it got held up by the RNC scanning packages coming from china.. so i get it on tues.. i ordered 1 gig of ram from newegg for 205$.. i should have checked owc, but 205$ is pretty good.

can't wait for the box.. i got the new ipod (200$ rebate from edu site), office X and my applecare.. now i just need the puter.

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[freakboy2]

woot! Republicans leave town and fedex comes back to life!!

got the powerbook today and it's awesome. now it just needs more ram and some software installed on it.

these machines are awesome. i had our IT guy who's a PC freak looking at it and i'd bet 20 bucks that he's gonna buy one in the next year.

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[MrForgetable]

Ordered my 15" last night and I am waiting for it to ship!!!! Have all my software ready to install

[macaddict0001]

Originally posted by BenRoethig:
Anyone thought of two different powerbook lines? lets start with a size comparison

15" PBG4: (inches)
1.1x13.7x11.8

Emachines m6811 (A64)
1.6x14x10.4

Compaq/ HP Athlon 64 notebooks:
1.8x14.25x11.8

There is no way a G5 is ever going to fit inside a 1 inch package. However, they have fit inside a 1.75" xserve. Apple could offer a thicker PBG5 as a desktop replacement line while keeping the ultra thin G4s as the ultimate business notebooks.

well the xserves have two as well as four drive bays 1 cd 3 drive's and its wider and deeper if they didn't paint the aluminum cooling wouldn't be an issue. cause a quarter of the case could be a heatsink I would like to see detrius point of view.

[macaddict0001]

Originally posted by GlobalNomad:
This is what I think

there was a whole thread on that

linky

[DickC]

Originally posted by Pierre B.:

For the time being though, it seems that there will be another Powerbook update with a little faster G4. Perhaps the rumored 7448.

Okay, but if the dual-core G4 gets announced at the tech-fest in October, any guesses on how long it will be until the PB gets updated to use the new processor?

[JeffHarris]

Personally, I've got my doubts about a G5 appearing in a PowerBook any time soon. Until the heat and power consumption issues, aside from .09nm manufacturing glitches, are resolved, a G5 just won't work reliably in the PowerBook form factor. I, for one, will NOT buy a Rev.A G5 PowerBook, until I see that they're solid and efficient machines.

The dual-core G4 looks more likely, but not for 6 months or so after it's announced.

PowerBook revisions tend to be announced in November (I've bought two in Novembers past) and April/May.

So, based on the typical PB release timetable, we'll most likely see an updated PowerBook in November (128MB Radeon 9800, 7200rpm hard drives, faster system bus, etc.) would seem more likely. Maybe we'll see a dual-core G4 PowerBook in the Spring of '05. The dualies sound like they have great potential!

Whether any or all of this pans out is up for grabs. It sure is fun thinking about, though!

[IronMentality]

Grrrrrrrr...

Everytime these threads pop-up it makes me think 50000000 times about not ordering my 15.2" Powerbook now and waiting until after Cram and Jam despite being a student.

[YangZone]

'Am expecting a nice (Rev 2b) 17" dual 2.8 MHz Fuel Celled PB G4 by Q1 '05... just in time to replace this 800.

[RonnieoftheRose]

As long as the PBG5 doesn't have 1 hour battery life and weight 15lbs like this Acer http://reviews.cnet.com/Acer_Aspire_...2.html?tag=tab

(The Acer uses desktop components though - you can remove the bottom and upgrade the HD, memory, mobile graphics card and desktop processor).

I reckon PBs for the next year will be like this...

Fall '04 - PBG4 1.7-1.8Ghz max for the 17" and 15", 1.5Ghz for the 12".

Spring '05 - PBG4 2Ghz max

Late Summer '05 - PBG5 17" 2-2.2Ghz, PBG5 15" 2Ghz, PBG5 12" 1.8Ghz

That's not too optimistic considering the 1.8 has already been around for a year. By that time it will be a two year old CPU.

[Superchicken]

My guess, we'll see a PowerBook more around the size of an old Pismo, when the G5s come out. That said I don't think they'd Run PowerBook G4 and PowerBook G5 at the same time. Although who knows Apple can do whatever the heck they want really. I some times wish they didn't have such stringent product name/groupings, if you look at HP or Dell's websites you'll see tons of Laptops all with their strong points. It would be nice if Apple didn't try and make every laptop make God want one.

[balls]

Originally posted by Superchicken:
It would be nice if Apple didn't try and make every laptop make God want one.

But exactly that is the purpose of the PowerBook; it is supposed to be a thin, fast, stylish, and above all, desirable laptop. If Apple can't do that using G5 processors, then I don't see them make some 5kg monster just to get a G5 in there.

[MrForgetable]

Originally posted by Superchicken:
My guess, we'll see a PowerBook more around the size of an old Pismo, when the G5s come out. That said I don't think they'd Run PowerBook G4 and PowerBook G5 at the same time. Although who knows Apple can do whatever the heck they want really. I some times wish they didn't have such stringent product name/groupings, if you look at HP or Dell's websites you'll see tons of Laptops all with their strong points. It would be nice if Apple didn't try and make every laptop make God want one.

I would like them to do G4 and G5 Powerbooks (like the G4 and G5 PowerMacs), at least for a while.

[meteparozzi]

I think everyone is getting caught up in the processor speed, a very Intel-oriented way of thinking, and missing the primary reason why the G5 is so much better than the G4. Its all about the bus speed. With only a 133 mhz bus, the G4 is limited in everything to that amount of bandwidth. The G5 starts off at an 800 mhz bus -- per processor -- and works up from there. Thats almost, if you add it all up, 10x faster with two processors. If we could just get a G4 with something like a 400mhz bus, the difference would be night and day.

[RonnieoftheRose]

Originally posted by meteparozzi:
I think everyone is getting caught up in the processor speed, a very Intel-oriented way of thinking, and missing the primary reason why the G5 is so much better than the G4. Its all about the bus speed. With only a 133 mhz bus, the G4 is limited in everything to that amount of bandwidth. The G5 starts off at an 800 mhz bus -- per processor -- and works up from there. .

This is untrue. In the iMac the FSB is 1/3 of the CPU speed. Expect the same thing to happen to the Powerbook. Still faster than currently, but we won't see the same thing as Power Macs. FSB is very over-hyped anyway. It only really shows its power in scientific and rendering applications. Otherwise you'll hardly notice it.

[balls]

Originally posted by meteparozzi:
With only a 133 mhz bus, the G4 is limited in everything to that amount of bandwidth.

167 MHz in the PowerBook.

[freakboy2]

Originally posted by balls:
167 MHz in the PowerBook.

i got my powerbook. even with only 256 megs of ram it's pretty fast and usable. it'll be almost comical how fast it will be once it gets it's extra gig of ram.

for anyone who's thinking about getting the 12 inch machine. i highly recommend it. this thing is just fantastic. i think it's got the best feeling keyboard on a laptop i've ever used.

battery life is top notch.. i kept it unplugged and used it off an on for about 20 hours.

sweet machine

short of apple putting a dual core g4 in here, i don't think a 10-15% speed bump would be that noticeable.

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[jwdsail]

Well, there are a few things Apple could do w/o touching the speed of the CPU that would be great...

ATi Radeon 9800 Mobility... 128MB standard.

And for me, the Panasonic/Matsushita UJ-825-B slot load DVD-R DVD-RW DVD+R DVD+RW slot load slim drive would be something worth waiting for. If it could be made to support dual-layer burning, even more so.
(Does anyone know which drive is in the current AL books?)

Later all

[workerbee]

Originally posted by jwdsail:
ATi Radeon 9800 Mobility... 128MB standard.

Looks like you won't have to wait too long for this to happen: MOSR (I know, they don't have too much credibility, but still...)

[anly]

it would def. be awesome for apple to put 9800 128 standard in their new lineup. But i wonder when they are gonna annouce it...I think these speculation is indeed very interesting and getting me really fired up. I wonder if anyone have any word on when they are gonna introduce new updates.

[Link]

Sometime between september 26 and mid october there's definitely going to be an announcement.

We can all accurately speculate!
1.6-1.8ghz G4 processors
DDR ram
Radeon 9800 mobile 128mb (w00t! powerbooks will have THE BEST video card ever in a portable)
Hopefully 5400rpm drives standard in the 15"/17" and maybe 12", and definitely 7200 as an option >_>

[anly]

Originally posted by Link:
Sometime between september 26 and mid october there's definitely going to be an announcement.

We can all accurately speculate!
1.6-1.8ghz G4 processors
DDR ram
Radeon 9800 mobile 128mb (w00t! powerbooks will have THE BEST video card ever in a portable)
Hopefully 5400rpm drives standard in the 15"/17" and maybe 12", and definitely 7200 as an option >_>

You've got some inside info?? Cause I'm heading out of the country for 2 weeks and want to have a PB along side. But if an annoucement is imminent then I'll better wait

[Simon]

Originally posted by Link:
We can all accurately speculate!
1.6-1.8ghz G4 processors
DDR ram
Radeon 9800 mobile 128mb (w00t! powerbooks will have THE BEST video card ever in a portable)
Hopefully 5400rpm drives standard in the 15"/17" and maybe 12", and definitely 7200 as an option >_>

Wow. If that all goes into the 12" I'll fork over as many $$$ as Steve wants.

[padhan]

Here in my part of the world, the dealer said there is a complete stockout, and is not sure when it would be replenished. My younger brother's order for a 12" PB is pending since last two weeks.... Is this stockout precurser to a G5 PB??

Well, as they say, "Marry in haste, Repent in Leisure, then hope like hell that it works".

[Randman]

Originally posted by padhan:
Is this stockout precurser to a G5 PB??

No. It depend on supply and demand. I'm working in Singapore and 15s were near impossible to find recently as Australia needed them. Plenty of 12s around and the usual number of 17s.

[buffalolee]

I am guessing an update at San Fransico MacWorld to the Powerbook. If anything, around that time "post-Christmas"

Basically,
If not October, then January is the time frame.

[freakboy2]

Originally posted by buffalolee:
I am guessing an update at San Fransico MacWorld to the Powerbook. If anything, around that time "post-Christmas"

Basically,
If not October, then January is the time frame.

or going by apple, an october announcement and then a 3 month wait to actually get the machine.

seriously, you can always think of a better machine, but the 12 inch powerbook i got totally rocks. for me, its not a gaming box, so a 9800 makes no difference, and the proc is super fast as is.

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[wuzup101]

Is there a possibility they are using the 17" as a test bed for the newer processor (be it dual G4 or G5) and that's why there is a shortage. Maybe we'll see the 17" move up first and won't see an updated 15" and 12" until a few more months down the line.

It's not exactly a long shot, but may not be the apple style. I just seems like it would be plausable because the 17" has the best cooling... they could be using it to cool a faster/more powerful processor.

[Link]

Haven't you guys ever looked at the expiry date for the "Cram and jam" promotion that's currently selling powerbooks?

Once that's over the only way people will get them is if they need them... GREAT marketing Anyway as I was saying, I was pretty much speculating, and you have to admit it's rather reliable speculation You might not see a 1.8 in the 12", but then again I dunno what we'll see yet.

I can keep stressing that the better the video card the better performance you can expect out of everyday usage due to 10.4... please keep that in mind before you start going off on your "I don't need it because I don't play games!" stuff, k?