Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

sideus · Jun 7, 2005, 06:46 PM

Yellow Dog Linux Enthusiasts,

I apologize for the delay in responding to the news concerning Apple's switch
to Intel. I am in Barcelona, Spain for the IBM power.org conference, and was
just settling into my hotel when I received calls from my associates back
home. I have required a few hours to review email and websites before
offering this brief communication.

Three main points:
1) We remain a Linux development company with 100% focus on the Power
Architecture (IBM, Freescale). We will not transition to support an x86/ia64
architecture.

2) Terra Soft remains in good standing with Apple. Their announcement does not
immediately affect our ability to sell nor support Apple PowerPC hardware.
Nor does it affect our ability to support non-Apple Power Architecture
offerings. Things are already in motion to enable a world of greater Power
Architecture diversity.

3) Based upon feeback to today's news, we expect Y-HPC to gain an even greater
userbase with existing Apple Xserve users. Y-HPC offers a Linux OS to help
bridge x86/ia64 and PowerPC clusters, reducing effort in code migration and
administration.

--------------------

I and my team appreciate the email we received today. I ask only that you
grant us the time to work with our industry associates both here at the
conference and in the States before responding in full.

Thank you for your patience and support.

Sincerely,
Kai Staats, CEO
Terra Soft Solutions, Inc.

I've used YDL in the past on my G4 and it is a great OS. If YDL can supply future PPC systems, I may be a future customer.

Millennium · Jun 7, 2005, 07:03 PM

I'm checking out Ubuntu myself, but you're right that the YDL folks can supply PowerPC systems.

OptimusG4 · Jun 7, 2005, 07:03 PM

Yep downloading 4.0.1 now as we speak to try it out, see what the buzz is all about.

yukon · Jun 7, 2005, 07:22 PM

Just wondering, what PPC systems are there out there that are non-apple? I heard rumours that IBM was going to start up it's own workstation line using PPC, but that's about it. There seems to be a community that I don't have any links to when it comes to non-apple PPC, I'd like to check it out.

sideus · Jun 7, 2005, 07:57 PM

If I remember correctly, PPC based logic boards are available either from IBM or other vendors. It is possible that YDL could start again (I think YDL used to sell a yellow cube shaped PPC system) manufacturing their own PPC based systems.

mitchell_pgh · Jun 7, 2005, 08:01 PM

WOW... talk about alarmists... NOTHING is going to change. There will be a blip on the radar regarding this change and that's it. This is NOTHING like the OS 9 OS X jump we made a few years back (remember that?).

I'm not even considering anything else. If anything, this makes my dream of Apple finally being a mainstream OS that much more of a reality.

mitchell_pgh · Jun 7, 2005, 08:03 PM

P.S. Why would you use YDL when you could use Red Hat (or a variety of other Linux) on the new x86 Macs?

JoshuaZ · Jun 7, 2005, 08:07 PM

When in doubt we could always move to Amegia? Or about BeOS? I hear you can get both to run on a PowerPC.

OptimusG4 · Jun 7, 2005, 08:17 PM

Originally Posted by mitchell_pgh

P.S. Why would you use YDL when you could use Red Hat (or a variety of other Linux) on the new x86 Macs?

Same reason people still have pre-ppc machines with linux on them...to keep the systems running.

sideus · Jun 7, 2005, 08:20 PM

Originally Posted by mitchell_pgh

P.S. Why would you use YDL when you could use Red Hat (or a variety of other Linux) on the new x86 Macs?

Because I'm not purchasing an x86 Mac. I've got a Mac Mini on order and will purchase an iMac G5 in 6 months and those will be the last Macs I'll buy. I do have an AMD system because of the amateur radio software I use, but I will never own an Intel CPU system. The main reason I purchase Macs is because of the PPC, with the OS being the second reason. If I want to continue to use PPC hardware in the years to come after Apple drops PPC support, then I will do what I can to find an alternative PPC based OS. That is my choice. Get over it.

wataru · Jun 7, 2005, 08:22 PM

Nice misuse of the word "nor" in there

Very professional when a press release contains poor grammar.

yukon · Jun 7, 2005, 08:47 PM

PPC is usually low power usage, still quite powerful, and something to brag about anyway. I mean it's either PPC or VIA C3 (or underclocking a Sempron I guess, meh), I have a Fedora K6-III at home I'd like to replace with a silent and small linux compatible server, it doesn't have to be a more expensive Apple PC. In any case, I'd like to know the options....I've only heard people talking about motherboards compatible with PPC chips (G4? Power-based?), I don't really know where to start research on it since neither the Mac world or the PC tends to talk about it.

sideus · Jun 7, 2005, 11:59 PM

Originally Posted by wataru

Nice misuse of the word "nor" in there

Very professional when a press release contains poor grammar.

Wasn't a press release. He posted it on the mailing list.

legacyb4 · Jun 8, 2005, 01:31 AM

Interesting. Buy a Subaru because of the flat-four/six engine block and all wheel drive; that I can understand.

But to buy a Mac for the PPC first and OS second is a bit harder to fathom... after all, what on the PPC exactly indicates it's a PPC and not some other CPU (other than the fact that the Mac OS didn't publicly run on anything other than PPC)?

Originally Posted by sideus

The main reason I purchase Macs is because of the PPC, with the OS being the second reason.

sideus · Jun 8, 2005, 01:33 AM

Exactly. Mac OS X will now be a ferrari with a Geo Metro 3 banger inside.

mac freak · Jun 8, 2005, 01:35 AM

Originally Posted by legacyb4

Interesting. Buy a Subaru because of the flat-four/six engine block and all wheel drive; that I can understand.

But to buy a Mac for the PPC first and OS second is a bit harder to fathom... after all, what on the PPC exactly indicates it's a PPC and not some other CPU (other than the fact that the Mac OS didn't publicly run on anything other than PPC)?

People are just in shock

Randman · Jun 8, 2005, 01:35 AM

Originally Posted by sideus

The main reason I purchase Macs is because of the PPC, with the OS being the second reason.

That's silly.

sideus · Jun 8, 2005, 01:36 AM

Whatever tickles your pickle.

Randman · Jun 8, 2005, 01:38 AM

Get an XBox360 then.

PurpleGiant · Jun 8, 2005, 01:39 AM

Originally Posted by sideus

Exactly. Mac OS X will now be a ferrari with a Geo Metro 3 banger inside.

I will wait to see exactly what Intel processors the new Intel Macs will use before passing judgement.

ndptal85 · Jun 8, 2005, 01:40 AM

The Pentium M really blows the PPC out of the water on performance per watt. Also with Apple getting out of the PPC market, the prices for remaining PPC vendors will increase. Afterall they're not selling the same type of CPUs that are going into the millions of video game consoles about to be sold.

Mark desktop PPC as a dying platform from this point forward.

sideus · Jun 8, 2005, 01:49 AM

Originally Posted by Randman

Get an XBox360 then.

Naw. Never liked Xbox. More of a PS and Nintendo person.

sideus · Jun 8, 2005, 01:50 AM

Originally Posted by ndptal85

The Pentium M really blows the PPC out of the water on performance per watt.

Heh, you must have been in TheSteve's RDF blast zone. Performance units per watt means what now?

Randman · Jun 8, 2005, 01:55 AM

Originally Posted by sideus

Naw. Never liked Xbox. More of a PS and Nintendo person.

But the X360 will run a PPC chip. You mean you don't buy gaming systems for the chip first?

wataru · Jun 8, 2005, 03:25 AM

Originally Posted by sideus

Exactly. Mac OS X will now be a ferrari with a Geo Metro 3 banger inside.

What part of "more processing power per watt" don't you understand? IBM dropped the ball; PPC is the Geo Metro 3 banger.

sideus · Jun 8, 2005, 04:22 AM

He said more processing units per watt. WTF is that? That is nothing but marketing speak.

Randman · Jun 8, 2005, 04:26 AM

Then give up Macs. No one really cares. For everyone who jumps ship to stay with an outdated and dying architecture, there'll be hundred, at least, giving Windows the boot and coming over to XP.

Sideus, you're sounding like maxximo. Replace PPC with OS9 and it's scary.

sideus · Jun 8, 2005, 04:34 AM

Originally Posted by Randman

Sideus, you're sounding like maxximo. Replace PPC with OS9 and it's scary.

Gamoe · Jun 8, 2005, 04:49 AM

This may be good news. If they can supply users with PPC boards, diversity and superior CPU design may not completely die in the personal computer market.

Randman · Jun 8, 2005, 05:05 AM

Originally Posted by sideus

OK, maybe not that scary.

Luca Rescigno · Jun 8, 2005, 05:14 AM

Ah, so what you're saying is that the Intel x86 processors Apple will be using are going to be about 1/10th as powerful as the PPC processors they're currently using? That doesn't make any sense.

If you really like PPC so much and couldn't care less about the OS you're using, why did you spend so much damn money on Macs? You could have set up a much cheaper, much less expensive PPC box (maybe a Mac, maybe not) and just ran some sort of PPC Linux on it. No need to splurge on the expensive hardware or even on the expensive software.

To ditch the Mac and to claim that Apple is dead because they're using non-PPC processors is absolutely ridiculous and small-minded. You need to chill out and realize that while this is a major change for Apple, it's really not that big of a deal for end users. What are you going to use once you can't buy a PPC Mac anymore? Gonna build an Amiga system or something?

Oh well. If you choose to stop using Macs, that's your own loss.

sideus · Jun 8, 2005, 06:57 AM

Ah, so what you're saying is that the Intel x86 processors Apple will be using are going to be about 1/10th as powerful as the PPC processors they're currently using? That doesn't make any sense.

If you really like PPC so much and couldn't care less about the OS you're using, why did you spend so much damn money on Macs? You could have set up a much cheaper, much less expensive PPC box (maybe a Mac, maybe not) and just ran some sort of PPC Linux on it. No need to splurge on the expensive hardware or even on the expensive software.

To ditch the Mac and to claim that Apple is dead because they're using non-PPC processors is absolutely ridiculous and small-minded. You need to chill out and realize that while this is a major change for Apple, it's really not that big of a deal for end users. What are you going to use once you can't buy a PPC Mac anymore? Gonna build an Amiga system or something?

Oh well. If you choose to stop using Macs, that's your own loss.

I like how people think they are all high and mighty and better than everyone.

Not my loss at all. Maybe to you since this is one less person to support Apple now. Apple is now a vanity PC maker, just like Sony. Maybe it would be better to now compare Apple to Bose. "Remember that really good computer maker(audio company) called Apple(Bose)? Yeah, but there stuff is crap now, you get more bang for the buck with Dell(JBL)."

Apple has changed and in a few weeks my life is changing. I'm getting married and will now have a family to support. Guess you could say mine and Apple's priorities are changing. Anyway, it has been a fun 3 years here at 'NN. I'll catch ya'll later. Be careful out there and good luck in the future.

Eriamjh · Jun 8, 2005, 07:02 AM

Bye.

RAILhead · Jun 8, 2005, 07:14 AM

PPC Mac users are the trolls of the Mac's future.

Mastrap · Jun 8, 2005, 07:18 AM

Indeed. Who cares if one Linux distributor throws a hissy fit? I used to play with Linux in pre-OS X days, now there's just no need.

zerostar · Jun 8, 2005, 07:25 AM

Originally Posted by sideus

He said more processing units per watt. WTF is that?

That, is a low-wattage chip that will double or triple the performance of the current PowerBooks, that is a future chip that IBM doesn't even have a road map for.

Sorry, Apple's hands were tied, sure a Dual 2.7 G5 is pretty much on par with any intel offering right now (Check My G5 vs Xeon Thread) but what of the future? What of Laptops (that are a third of most chip sales right now) a Stagnant G4 PRO Laptop is hurting Apple more than anything right now. And If MBD is right, IBM basically told Apple 'games over'

Intel has some fine chips, and some awesome things coming, intel also has some of the worlds greatest talent to boot, because IBM hit a home-run with the power architecture for once and had a useable chip that was only useable with a 10lb. active heat-sink is no great shakes.

zerostar · Jun 8, 2005, 07:37 AM

What is really funny is the same people who are jumping-ship are probably some of the same who would be yelling at apple in a year when the PowerBooks are at 1.7Gz G4's and the G5's were at 2.8GHz

Apple see's the future and makes a move that could actually cost dearly in order to secure a stable chip-supply and that makes people all up in arms.

As I see it, if everything goes well and Apple is still around in 3-4 years (har har har) they will either be on par with the fastest systems everyone else is offering or they will be transitioning again ALONG WITH EVERYONE ELSE away from x86.

I don't even see a need for a plan B anymore, since if the intel thing doesn't work out they can use AMD based x86 and if the x86 thing doesn't work out the whole industry is in a huge slump and needs to make a move anyway. (Of course, they will probably be running nano-tech OS X for 5 years behind the scenes by then)

And one last thing I have yet to hear anyone explain, what is so great about PPC if you can't scale at a proper pace or if you can't EVER get the fast chips in to PowerBooks, Minis, etc.?

Millennium · Jun 8, 2005, 07:59 AM

Originally Posted by wataru

What part of "more processing power per watt" don't you understand?

What they used to measure it, that's what. What is this "unit of power" that Apple claimed to be using, and how could I measure it on my own machines? The benchmarks smell awfully contrived, particularly when the benchmarks other people have been running paint a much more dismal picture.

mitchell_pgh · Jun 8, 2005, 08:19 AM

Originally Posted by sideus

Exactly. Mac OS X will now be a ferrari with a Geo Metro 3 banger inside.

Umm, wrong. PPC is more like the wankel rotary engine. While technically superior, it simply hasn't displaced the reciprocating engine which everyone uses. Also, PPC hasn't proven to be much (if any) faster than the x86 offerings in any consistent way.

I would go on to say that x86 has been able to adapt very well over the past few years... and I don't see that slowing down.

mitchell_pgh · Jun 8, 2005, 08:21 AM

Originally Posted by zerostar

What is really funny is the same people who are jumping-ship are probably some of the same who would be yelling at apple in a year when the PowerBooks are at 1.7Gz G4's and the G5's were at 2.8GHz

Apple see's the future and makes a move that could actually cost dearly in order to secure a stable chip-supply and that makes people all up in arms.

As I see it, if everything goes well and Apple is still around in 3-4 years (har har har) they will either be on par with the fastest systems everyone else is offering or they will be transitioning again ALONG WITH EVERYONE ELSE away from x86.

I don't even see a need for a plan B anymore, since if the intel thing doesn't work out they can use AMD based x86 and if the x86 thing doesn't work out the whole industry is in a huge slump and needs to make a move anyway. (Of course, they will probably be running nano-tech OS X for 5 years behind the scenes by then)

And one last thing I have yet to hear anyone explain, what is so great about PPC if you can't scale at a proper pace or if you can't EVER get the fast chips in to PowerBooks, Minis, etc.?

Interesting point... now when there is a CPU lag, people won't blame Apple... they will blame Intel...

wataru · Jun 8, 2005, 08:24 AM

Originally Posted by sideus

I like how people think they are all high and mighty and better than everyone.

Not my loss at all. Maybe to you since this is one less person to support Apple now. Apple is now a vanity PC maker, just like Sony. Maybe it would be better to now compare Apple to Bose. "Remember that really good computer maker(audio company) called Apple(Bose)? Yeah, but there stuff is crap now, you get more bang for the buck with Dell(JBL)."

Apple has changed and in a few weeks my life is changing. I'm getting married and will now have a family to support. Guess you could say mine and Apple's priorities are changing. Anyway, it has been a fun 3 years here at 'NN. I'll catch ya'll later. Be careful out there and good luck in the future.

The sane ones around here are sick of this drama ********. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Randman · Jun 8, 2005, 08:33 AM

Originally Posted by sideus

I like how people think they are all high and mighty and better than everyone.

Not my loss at all. Maybe to you since this is one less person to support Apple now. Apple is now a vanity PC maker, just like Sony. Maybe it would be better to now compare Apple to Bose. "Remember that really good computer maker(audio company) called Apple(Bose)? Yeah, but there stuff is crap now, you get more bang for the buck with Dell(JBL)."

Apple has changed and in a few weeks my life is changing. I'm getting married and will now have a family to support. Guess you could say mine and Apple's priorities are changing. Anyway, it has been a fun 3 years here at 'NN. I'll catch ya'll later. Be careful out there and good luck in the future.

Let's hope your wife never changes her hair color. You'll leave her.

Shaddim · Jun 8, 2005, 09:24 AM

Originally Posted by mitchell_pgh

WOW... talk about alarmists... NOTHING is going to change. There will be a blip on the radar regarding this change and that's it. This is NOTHING like the OS 9 OS X jump we made a few years back (remember that?).

I'm not even considering anything else. If anything, this makes my dream of Apple finally being a mainstream OS that much more of a reality.

We don't want Intel. That's not hard to understand.

mitchell_pgh · Jun 8, 2005, 09:29 AM

Originally Posted by sideus

Apple is now a vanity PC maker, just like Sony.

Sony? I didn't know Sony had an amazing operating system? Didn't know Sony was known for making amazong computers. etc. etc. etc. More FUD from sideus.

Originally Posted by sideus

Maybe it would be better to now compare Apple to Bose. "Remember that really good computer maker(audio company) called Apple(Bose)? Yeah, but there stuff is crap now, you get more bang for the buck with Dell(JBL)."

Apple is changing CPUs, not closing down business. You act like Apple is now going to be cloning their hardware out to eMachine or something!

Originally Posted by sideus

Apple has changed and in a few weeks my life is changing. I'm getting married and will now have a family to support. Guess you could say mine and Apple's priorities are changing. Anyway, it has been a fun 3 years here at 'NN. I'll catch ya'll later. Be careful out there and good luck in the future.

Apple has changed CPUs. Nothing else...

Randman · Jun 8, 2005, 09:30 AM

Originally Posted by MacNStein

We don't want Intel. That's not hard to understand.

Fine, then don't buy a Mac with an Intel chip. Simple as that. But all the crying from some people on this site is laughable. "Apple betrayed us." "I follow the chip not the OS." "OSX isn't worth the Apple tax." "I'd rather run Windows on a Pentium than OSX on Intel."

Being concerned is one thing. Being pissed is one thing. Being an alarmist and drama queen before all of the facts are in is quite something else.

mitchell_pgh · Jun 8, 2005, 09:30 AM

Originally Posted by MacNStein

We don't want Intel. That's not hard to understand.

No

but I'm amazed at how childish people are acting. "That's it... I'm switching to Yellow Dog Linux"

I don't see the CPU "being" the Mac. Apparently others don't feel that way.

Mastrap · Jun 8, 2005, 09:32 AM

Originally Posted by MacNStein

We don't want Intel. That's not hard to understand.

Ditching your OS of choice because you don't like the processor that powers it is of course your prerogative. But the phrase 'cutting off your nose to spite your face' does come to mind.

mitchell_pgh · Jun 8, 2005, 09:34 AM

"I follow the chip not the OS."

Best line EVER!

Shaddim · Jun 8, 2005, 09:35 AM

It's funny watching the x86 Mac zealots attack the people who simply want to stay with PPC.

Is it possible for you to come to grips with Apple's failure to keep these customers? Can't you understand that some people won't buy an Intel product?

Stop being so insulting. It doesn't get your point across, and only shows your "fanboyness".

Shaddim · Jun 8, 2005, 09:41 AM

Originally Posted by Mastrap

Ditching your OS of choice because you don't like the processor that powers it is of course your prerogative. But the phrase 'cutting off your nose to spite your face' does come to mind.

Pfftt, I'm not staying with PPC, I'm going to get an MP Opteron system... which coincidently will blow the doors off any Intel or PPC offerings. Fact is, I like Linux. It's very simple to use and with certain window managers is very easy on the eyes (Enlightenment). As I see it, I'll still have the best of both worlds, and not have to deal with WinTel.

I've been irritated with Apple's weaker hardware for years, their move to Intel simply drives the last nail in the coffin.