Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

ghporter · Aug 31, 2007, 06:03 PM

NBC has different suits from 40 years ago, but they have apparently learned nothing. In 1967, they were going to cancel Star Trek (this was before Nielsons' rating system broke down audiences by demographics-it was just raw "number of viewers" numbers). A concerted letter writing campaign to NBC, their parent company (I think it was Polaroid then) and a whole lot of bad press made 'em change their minds, though they got revenge by putting the show on in the "timeslot of death" on Friday evenings. Now they're basically removing a viewing time for every show they licensed to iTunes, which is a very similar action. What a bunch of stupid!

Chuckit · Aug 31, 2007, 06:19 PM

Originally Posted by SirCastor

Has it occurred to anyone else that NBC's well aware that this will drive people to piracy?

Consider for a moment. You want to sell your content, but you want to sell it in a specific way. You want to bundle it with other contents, sell it on high-profit-margin video discs, or display it on Television and your own website where you have absolute control over the content. If people can't get things the way they want, they resort to breaking the law which gives all the more power to the argument that piracy is hurting your business and more laws need to be enacted to stop it.

The fact that they refused to try legal downloads will hardly help their argument. It's their fault if they don't go after the Internet market.

Anyway, these jokers don't even understand the market, much less have enough of a clue to effectively shut down piracy. They tried it with videotapes and lost, and new media are much less controllable than VHS. If they really want to fight the Internet, they're going to lose.

Captain Obvious · Aug 31, 2007, 09:59 PM

NBC is 4th in overall ratings of the networks. Why would they think that people would pay $5 a show when they can't get them to watch them for free?

If they can provide a premium product like an actual 60 minute hour long show instead of 40 minutes and deliver it in HD I would entertain paying their new price.

If the iPod line gains better video playing capability as it is expected to next week then the revenue generated by iTunes selling TV content is only going to grow. NBC isn't going to hurt anyone but themselves by not going along with Apple at this stage.

sideus · Aug 31, 2007, 10:57 PM

The title of this thread should be "NBC loses Apple".

Randman · Sep 1, 2007, 03:55 AM

Originally Posted by Rumor

Watch Heroes Online

I'm on the last episode. A few have subtitles, but it is less than five of them.

Nice. Many thanks.

Kevin · Sep 1, 2007, 08:17 AM

Originally Posted by besson3c

I love Usenet even more... much faster.

I've used both. It all depends on how you have your torrent app and ports set up, and who you are getting them from.

cjrivera · Sep 1, 2007, 08:32 AM

Instead of iTunes being my means of downloading episodes of The Office, I guess downloading from NBC will mean...

Now
BitTorrent's my
Choice

Kevin · Sep 1, 2007, 08:43 AM

And they make nothing. So it's a lose/lose deal. Yay NBC....

Cold Warrior · Sep 1, 2007, 07:53 PM

NBC has fired back.
AppleInsider | NBC refutes Apple's price claims, pledges iTunes shows

But I don't believe them. They're just greedy tools who lack vision. Now they're caught off guard with Apple shutting them out as their fall season gears up. I'm sure they counted on iTunes' reach to reel in customers and viewers for new and returning shows. Now NBC looks even more idiotic, and if I were GE or shareholders, I'd be pissed that they're so dumb.

Chuckit · Sep 1, 2007, 08:20 PM

I believe NBC that their shows will be on iTunes. I've always assumed NBC would come back with its tail between its legs. It's a phenomenon called "realizing you ****ed up."

And what is this crap about Apple's pricing being bad for the networks? Do they make more money off Bittorrent?

Kevin · Sep 2, 2007, 08:04 AM

Simple as this. Apple called NBC's bluff. NBC caved in.

turtle777 · Sep 4, 2007, 08:46 PM

NBC's selling shows on Amazon Unbox, starting today - Engadget

NBC switches over to Amazon's Unboxed.

Still DRM, now even worse.
Still $ 1.99

So why did they do it ? Only God knows...

SOMEBODY will be fired over this.

-t

kman42 · Sep 4, 2007, 09:14 PM

According to a few reports, Amazon is letting them discount season passes up to 30% off buying episodes individually? Doesn't Apple to this already?! I can buy a season of the the Office for $34.99 for 23 episodes. Some quick math indicates that is a 24% discount. And I think the Daily Show is an even better deal. Am I missing something here?

MacosNerd · Sep 4, 2007, 09:24 PM

Originally Posted by turtle777

So why did they do it ? Only God knows...

I think its more of not doing business with apple. A lot of these studios are fearful of apple getting too powerful. Sounds like amazon gave them some of what they wanted. If apple is not careful others could do the same. Now that there's other companies offering what apple is offering Apple needs to be careful

turtle777 · Sep 4, 2007, 09:33 PM

Originally Posted by MacosNerd

Now that there's other companies offering what apple is offering Apple needs to be careful

O'Rly ?

iPod and iPhone compatibility ?
Huge installed user base ?

-t

Chuckit · Sep 4, 2007, 09:34 PM

Being careful is not what made Apple the company it is today.

Kevin · Sep 5, 2007, 06:44 AM

NBC will either adapt, or get left behind.

Randman · Sep 5, 2007, 07:03 AM

Originally Posted by kman42

According to a few reports, Amazon is letting them discount season passes up to 30% off buying episodes individually? Doesn't Apple to this already?! I can buy a season of the the Office for $34.99 for 23 episodes. Some quick math indicates that is a 24% discount. And I think the Daily Show is an even better deal. Am I missing something here?

Yes, you're missing that it's Windows DRM and therefore not compatible with Macs.

MacosNerd · Sep 5, 2007, 07:54 AM

Originally Posted by turtle777

O'Rly ?

iPod and iPhone compatibility ?
Huge installed user base ?

Really.

Don't over look the issue. Apple is basically the transport medium - they really have no control or rights to what they sell. Yes they have a huge installed base but if a number of studios decide they don't want to play apple's game and move over to amazon (or whoever else) who will that hurt more apple or the studios - Apple.

The studios will have drop in short term sales but if people want the music/videos and apple does not sell them then they'll go somewhere else. Plain and simple. Just because apple has a huge installed base means they can bully the studios around. There is competition and if apple thinks it can call the shots without understanding that the studios do have other options, its a mistake and it could eventually hurt them.

Lotus made the same mistake years ago. They were the only real spreadsheet in town. Yes excel was out but it was only on the Mac and windows was just coming out. They didn't think they needed to worry about the other guy or even produce a windows version of lotus 123. Where are they now? They were the most dominant software company, people were talking about how powerful they've become and M$ through a variety of ways (some legal some not so legal) over threw lotus 123 as the dominate spreadsheet application.

Chuckit · Sep 5, 2007, 09:28 AM

Originally Posted by MacosNerd

The studios will have drop in short term sales but if people want the music/videos and apple does not sell them then they'll go somewhere else.

Yeah, file-sharing networks. That's who Apple is competing with, not all these ragtag startup services that don't have the iPod or iTunes and will allow the studios to gang-rape consumers with $5-an-episode shows. If the record companies want to create a schism within the world of legitimate file downloads, they lose.

turtle777 · Sep 5, 2007, 09:39 AM

Originally Posted by MacosNerd

Really.

Don't over look the issue. Apple is basically the transport medium - they really have no control or rights to what they sell. Yes they have a huge installed base but if a number of studios decide they don't want to play apple's game and move over to amazon (or whoever else) who will that hurt more apple or the studios - Apple.

The studios will have drop in short term sales but if people want the music/videos and apple does not sell them then they'll go somewhere else. Plain and simple. Just because apple has a huge installed base means they can bully the studios around. There is competition and if apple thinks it can call the shots without understanding that the studios do have other options, its a mistake and it could eventually hurt them.

Lotus made the same mistake years ago. They were the only real spreadsheet in town. Yes excel was out but it was only on the Mac and windows was just coming out. They didn't think they needed to worry about the other guy or even produce a windows version of lotus 123. Where are they now? They were the most dominant software company, people were talking about how powerful they've become and M$ through a variety of ways (some legal some not so legal) over threw lotus 123 as the dominate spreadsheet application.

The Lotus example is flawed, it's Apples to Oranges.

THe main difference is that we are not only talking about software here, but about a hardware-software combination. The dominion that Apple has with the iPoads can not be easily broken in the short run. And looking at the competition, it still looks like Apple will be ahead of the game for quite a while.

-t

mitchell_pgh · Sep 5, 2007, 10:04 AM

I'm rather sure that NBC didn't like the idea of the iPod/iTunes is able to play un-DRM video.

I'm upset that I won't be able to download The Office this fall, but to be honest, I'll find it somewhere else.

jokell82 · Sep 5, 2007, 10:28 AM

Free OTA HD signals + my Eye TV 500 ftw! I'll convert it myself to play on my iPod, no biggie.

NBC will come crawling back when they realize that they only get 1% of sales on Amazon as they did with Apple.

MacosNerd · 10:53 AM

Originally Posted by turtle777

The Lotus example is flawed, it's Apples to Oranges.

THe main difference is that we are not only talking about software here, but about a hardware-software combination. The dominion that Apple has with the iPoads can not be easily broken in the short run. And looking at the competition, it still looks like Apple will be ahead of the game for quite a while.

-t

maybe apples and oranges but the bottom line is this.
NBC is going to be getting money from the proceeds of sales on Amazon.
Apple is getting bupkis.

Who is that hurting more?

Now if paramount, universal, and other studios do the same thing who will that hurt more? They'll still get revenue (less sales perhaps but sales nonetheless) but apple will not.

turtle777 · Sep 5, 2007, 10:45 AM

Originally Posted by MacosNerd

maybe apples and oranges but the bottom line is this.
NBC is going to be getting money from the proceeds of sales on Amazon.
Apple is getting bupkis.

Who is that hurting more?

NBC, of course.

Guess where all the iTunes user are gonna get their NBC shows from ?

Torrent !

And Apple will still be selling the hardware, it's main source of revenue.

-t

MacosNerd · Sep 5, 2007, 10:55 AM

Originally Posted by turtle777

NBC, of course.

Guess where all the iTunes user are gonna get their NBC shows from ?

Torrent !
-t

Not everyone. There's still a fair amount of people that choose not to steal. So those folks will be buying the shows on amazon.

scottiB · Sep 5, 2007, 10:56 AM

Originally Posted by MacosNerd

maybe apples and oranges but the bottom line is this.
NBC is going to be getting money from the proceeds of sales on Amazon.
Apple is getting bupkis.

Who is that hurting more?

Now if paramount, universal, and other studios do the same thing who will that hurt more? They'll still get revenue (less per unit sales perhaps but sales nonetheless) but apple will not.

Apple's revenue from TV show and movie downloads is not much. Financially, they'll be losing little. Those with video-enabled iPods and iPhones will fill them with video aquired by other means.

The revenue that NBC gains from sales is equal to a rounding error to a company that size.

This is not about revenue; it's about control.

SirCastor · Sep 5, 2007, 11:03 AM

Originally Posted by MacosNerd

Not everyone. There's still a fair amount of people that choose not to steal. So those folks will be buying the shows on amazon.

Not the Mac users. Unbox doesn't offer anything for us. This is one reason why I'm frustrated. I'm out of legal options for BSG. No cable, no iTunes, no other compatible service.

It bugs me that those of us who are trying to keep the law are looked at as weirdos... (That that you did that MacosNerd)

turtle777 · Sep 5, 2007, 11:08 AM

Originally Posted by MacosNerd

Not everyone. There's still a fair amount of people that choose not to steal. So those folks will be buying the shows on amazon.

Why the hell would I pay to buy at Amazon if I can't even play it on a Mac ?

-t