[macintologist]

Would you consider adopting a child in place of (or on top of) having children of your own? For what reasons?

I personally would prefer that my children were my biological offsprings because I'd want to avoid the whole issue of the child not feeling they are loved 100% because a) their custodial parents aren't their biological parents b) more likely than not their biological parents rejected them in one way or another.

What would you do when it came time to start a family?

[davesimondotcom]

Considering my wife's health issues, we've been thinking of adoption. My first instinct is that I'd like to have my own children, but if that's not possible, I'd definitely adopt.

[macintologist]

That's a good point dave, but I'm thinking more on the lines of couples who are physically capable of having their own children but might choose to adopt for more philanthropic reasons if you know what I mean... raising a poor child who otherwise wouldn't be loved by anybody.

[Chuckit]

If I were a woman, I would much rather adopt than go through childbirth. As it is, I don't really plan to have children anyway.

[mac128k-1984]

I think your going to see that most people don't adopt out of philanthropic reasons (man that sounds cold) but rather out of a desire to have kids. I know of a fairly large number of people who have adopted and all have done so because they're unable to have them on their own.

Adopting is such a rigious, expensive and time consuming process and you need to be doing it for the right reasons (I'm not saying philanthropic isn't a good reason) so you need to be committed to have a child.

As for me, I think I would choose to have my own over adopting and I've been blessed by the Lord with two wonderful girls.

[Dark Helmet]

Yes, but I specifically want a black girl.

[Rumor]

What's the return policy on adopted children?

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Rumor

What's the return policy on adopted children?

30 days with receipt or else you get store credit.

[macforray]

Let's see...... we had one of our own and then........(I'm still counting) we adopted SIX. Two sibling groups of two and four. Issues? Yes, but no more than any parent may have to go through. Regrets? Not one.

What was the question again?

[Ghoser777]

At my current rate, adoption seems like the best bet for me ever having kids.

[Salty]

I've been thinking of fostering... partly cause I've recently fallen for a cute guy from Nashville... (Did I just say that on NN?) and since I'm no longer entirely sure after looking more into Romans 1 that it'd be sin for me to have a relationship with another guy. If that were the case I could easily see us taking in for example a girl gets pregnant and can't take care of the kid, we'd probably be willing to take care of her during her pregnancy then raise the kid, so she wouldn't have an abortion for example.

[Ghoser777]

Originally Posted by Salty

<snip> since I'm no longer entirely sure after looking more into Romans 1 that it'd be sin for me to have a relationship with another guy. <snip>

Not to get this thread derailed - one post answer and be done with this sidetrack would be fine - but what in Romans 1 are you interpreting differently than you did before?

[invisibleX]

Originally Posted by Salty

I've been thinking of fostering... partly cause I've recently fallen for a cute guy from Nashville... (Did I just say that on NN?) and since I'm no longer entirely sure after looking more into Romans 1 that it'd be sin for me to have a relationship with another guy. If that were the case I could easily see us taking in for example a girl gets pregnant and can't take care of the kid, we'd probably be willing to take care of her during her pregnancy then raise the kid, so she wouldn't have an abortion for example.

Lemme get this right. You're almost positively nearly 99% sure you won't burn in hell for being gay. Good luck with that.

Actually that makes me wonder how good a parent a gay couple might be. Might be fine parents might not, as with anyone, but certainly a number of extra factors.

[mitchell_pgh]

I would have no problem adopting one child and having a biological child in the same household. The child may have a longing to find his real parents, and I wouldn't prevent that, but I would love my children equally.

I wouldn't make it a big deal unless that's what the child wanted.

[Salty]

Originally Posted by Ghoser777

Not to get this thread derailed - one post answer and be done with this sidetrack would be fine - but what in Romans 1 are you interpreting differently than you did before?

It's all on m'blog. But essentially Romans 1 seems to be talking directly about the orgies happening in Rome. It's typically used by Christians in the western world to condemn gay relationships. The thing is though Paul goes through cause and effect for the behaviour and it doesn't fit with how one becomes gay. Or rather there are lots of gay people who don't fit that bill. Thus if we assume Scripture is true, then it must not be talking about that. When you look at the option of it being about orgies, then dang the whole passage makes much more sense. And considering there were as I understand it more orgies than gay couples in Paul's day, it kinda makes sense that he'd be addressing that. The idea of homosexuality is fairly new.

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally Posted by Salty

It's all on m'blog. But essentially Romans 1 seems to be talking directly about the orgies happening in Rome. It's typically used by Christians in the western world to condemn gay relationships. The thing is though Paul goes through cause and effect for the behaviour and it doesn't fit with how one becomes gay. Or rather there are lots of gay people who don't fit that bill. Thus if we assume Scripture is true, then it must not be talking about that. When you look at the option of it being about orgies, then dang the whole passage makes much more sense. And considering there were as I understand it more orgies than gay couples in Paul's day, it kinda makes sense that he'd be addressing that. The idea of homosexuality is fairly new.

Homosexuality is anything but new. It happens in nature between animals... so why wouldn't it happen to humans?

Salty, take this for what it is... but have you ever considered talking to a therapist NOT affiliated with your church? I think it could do wonders for you...

[Salty]

Originally Posted by mitchell_pgh

Homosexuality is anything but new. It happens in nature between animals... so why wouldn't it happen to humans?

Salty, take this for what it is... but have you ever considered talking to a therapist NOT affiliated with your church? I think it could do wonders for you...

Sorry, should have said the word and understanding. It's a fairly new concept as we understand it. Ancient societies had very different ways of thinking about things. And I have a counsellor. That said he's the one my dad's work pays for, and my mom was really set on this one, and he thinks it's a sin . That said I just go to appease the mom. That said I'm honestly not in terrible need of any sort of therapy. I simply desire to live my life in a manner I'm convinced pleases God. If that means life long celibacy fine. If it doesn't great, I'm currently leaning towards doesn't right now. Which for the record, is kinda fun. Honestly though I just like the idea of being able to have matching Macs...

[greenamp]

Originally Posted by Salty

I've been thinking of fostering... partly cause I've recently fallen for a cute guy from Nashville... (Did I just say that on NN?) and since I'm no longer entirely sure after looking more into Romans 1 that it'd be sin for me to have a relationship with another guy. If that were the case I could easily see us taking in for example a girl gets pregnant and can't take care of the kid, we'd probably be willing to take care of her during her pregnancy then raise the kid, so she wouldn't have an abortion for example.

So you're the dude that I've been seeing parked outside my apartment every night! Restraining order!

[greenamp]

Adoption in place of a bio-child?

Absolutly. In fact, my wife and I actually plan on this when the time comes.

People seem to have kids for pretty selfish reasons. I mean, sure we need to procreate to keep from going extinct, but we're far from being in that situation. There are so many kids out there who need a loving home, I just can't imagine not providing for at least one when we're in a position to handle it. Why have a your own kids when there are more than enough humans already and planety of young ones who need to be cared for?

I grew up in foster care though, so I'm a bit more sensitive to this subject.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Salty

I've been thinking of fostering... partly cause I've recently fallen for a cute guy from Nashville...

So... ...you're actually considering the massive responsibility of raising a kid just to get in some guy's knickers?

Originally Posted by Salty

I'm no longer entirely sure after looking more into Romans 1 that it'd be sin for me to have a relationship with another guy.

Originally Posted by Romans 1:22

Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools

[Salty]

Sorry greenamp, you're a lil too married for me

[Salty]

Originally Posted by Doofy

So... ...you're actually considering the massive responsibility of raising a kid just to get in some guy's knickers?

No, but if I was planning on living a celibate life I wouldn't have raised children at all.

Originally Posted by greenamp

Adoption in place of a bio-child?

Absolutly. In fact, my wife and I actually plan on this when the time comes.

People seem to have kids for pretty selfish reasons. I mean, sure we need to procreate to keep from going extinct, but we're far from being in that situation. There are so many kids out there who need a loving home, I just can't imagine not providing for at least one when we're in a position to handle it. Why have a your own kids when there are more than enough humans already and planety of young ones who need to be cared for?

I grew up in foster care though, so I'm a bit more sinsitive to this subject.

Here, here. I share your thoughts on this exactly.

My SO and I decided in our very early 20's that she should have her tubes tied. No point in being on birth control and dealing with side-effects or unwanted results when we feel so strongly about population control.

One thing I totally don't understand are people adopting children from another country. I've heard of several people lately that find it their "calling" to pay $30k for a Guatemelan child. What's wrong with adopting a child from your own country?? Not that I'm against helping ANY child but what makes a foreign child more important to "save" than a hometurf one?

[Salty]

Cause a crack baby isnt' as cute?

I love the idea of taking a life that nobody else wanted to care for and loving it. Granted when they're throwing a fit and telling me that I'm a bad parent because I won't buy them a new cell phone... I'll love the idea less but...

[darth-vader000]

Originally Posted by Salty

Cause a crack baby isnt' as cute?

omg, you got some serious issues, in prior postings you've talked about your usage of pornography, your now twisting Bible passages to suit your desires, becoming a foster parent because you lust after some guy in nashville and now complain about crack babies.

And you actually wonder why the church fired you. I'm not trying to sound harsh but lets paint a picture here.

Youth pastor in trainnig who wants to be involved in a homosexual relationship, who actively (by your own admission) enjoys pornographc materials, who's now trying to find Bible passages to justify a gay relationship and now comes out against poor defenseless crack babies because they may throw tantrums down the road but is willing to be a foster parent because another guy is cute.

Don't you think that most conservative Christian Churchs tend to want people who's desire is not to back slide into sin, but rather lead people into a closer relationship with Christ.

We are called to live a Christl-ike life, while we cannot avoid sin thanks to our nature, that doesn't mean we can fully embrace it. If your reading romans, Paul comes out against people justifying sin because of grace. I think you should read more of that then about how to justify sex with a man.

[moonmonkey]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Yes, but I specifically want a black girl.

Yes, brown will never go out of fashion.

[mac128k-1984]

Wow thanks to salty this thread got seriously derailed.

Back to the topic
I have to give my admiration to macforray for loving the disadvantaged, but I'm not sure if its selfishness as greenamp has said about having a biological baby.

I know my wife wanted to have one, not just adopt one and I know within a lot of woman this desire is so deep seeded (I totally don't understand this) that I'm hesitent to call it selfish.

I truly do a applause those who are willing to take that extra step, I know its not within me.

[Salty]

Originally Posted by darth-vader000

omg, you got some serious issues, in prior postings you've talked about your usage of pornography, your now twisting Bible passages to suit your desires, becoming a foster parent because you lust after some guy in nashville and now complain about crack babies.

And you actually wonder why the church fired you. I'm not trying to sound harsh but lets paint a picture here.

Youth pastor in trainnig who wants to be involved in a homosexual relationship, who actively (by your own admission) enjoys pornographc materials, who's now trying to find Bible passages to justify a gay relationship and now comes out against poor defenseless crack babies because they may throw tantrums down the road but is willing to be a foster parent because another guy is cute.

Don't you think that most conservative Christian Churchs tend to want people who's desire is not to back slide into sin, but rather lead people into a closer relationship with Christ.

We are called to live a Christl-ike life, while we cannot avoid sin thanks to our nature, that doesn't mean we can fully embrace it. If your reading romans, Paul comes out against people justifying sin because of grace. I think you should read more of that then about how to justify sex with a man.

Uhh, it was a tongue in cheek comment. Adopting a child from over seas for thousands of dollars more than a child who they could have taken care of from their own back yard. I wasn't mocking crack babies you freaking moron. And you admit you're called to be Christ-like so stop being a holier than thou jack ass. And before you get down on my hermeneutical skills I suggest you bother to know my argument. Oh wait, right I forgot it's trendy these days to blindly oppose anything involving gay people! Jack ass.

[Zeeb]

Originally Posted by Salty

Sorry, should have said the word and understanding. It's a fairly new concept as we understand it. Ancient societies had very different ways of thinking about things. And I have a counsellor. That said he's the one my dad's work pays for, and my mom was really set on this one, and he thinks it's a sin . That said I just go to appease the mom. That said I'm honestly not in terrible need of any sort of therapy. I simply desire to live my life in a manner I'm convinced pleases God. If that means life long celibacy fine. If it doesn't great, I'm currently leaning towards doesn't right now. Which for the record, is kinda fun. Honestly though I just like the idea of being able to have matching Macs...

Gay people are perfectly capable of adopting children and you sound like you'd be a great parent (once you sort yourself out a bit. )

You should live your life in a way that pleases God, but you don't need to live your life in a manner that pleases other people (who say they represent God but don't). I wouldn't recommend lifelong celibacy--that's not natural or healthy--just my opinion. Get away from that counselor of yours as soon as you can. No legitimate counselor endorsed by the APA would have such opinions.

[invisibleX]

Originally Posted by Salty

Uhh, it was a tongue in cheek comment. Adopting a child from over seas for thousands of dollars more than a child who they could have taken care of from their own back yard. I wasn't mocking crack babies you freaking moron. And you admit you're called to be Christ-like so stop being a holier than thou jack ass. And before you get down on my hermeneutical skills I suggest you bother to know my argument. Oh wait, right I forgot it's trendy these days to blindly oppose anything involving gay people! Jack ass.

I believe the thrust of it is: he's been reading your posts, and he couldn't keep silent about something he feels is wrong. I'm sure it wasn't personal or out of hatred for your, uh, kind.

What exactly is your argument? A cursory glance at romans 1 makes it seem pretty explicit. I'm no expert but with a little effort anything can mean whatever you like it to. Even seems to say that at the end.

This thread probably isn't the place to discuss this.

So back to adopting. I probably wouldn't adopt unless my SO was 100% for it. Myself I don't mind so much but women seem to want their own; the bond with an adopted child isn't quite there. I suspect you'd find people who already have a child of their own are more willing to adopt than others, and men moreso than women.

[Gossamer]

My uncle had some disease when he was younger that left him sterile, so he and his wife adopted 5 Korean kids (from the same family, I'm pretty sure), and raised them all from birth.

[Jawbone54]

My wife and I are planning on having 3 children (beginning in 4 years), then adopting another, likely from Asia.

[Gossamer]

Originally Posted by Jawbone54

My wife and I are planning on having 3 children (beginning in 4 years), then adopting another, likely from Asia.

It's cool that you've got a plan

[Jawbone54]

Originally Posted by Gossamer

It's cool that you've got a plan

Thanks

What I left out is that we have to end up with an even number of kids...so if we were to accidently have a 5th after the adoption, we'd have to adopt another one to make it 6.

My wife hates odd numbers...

Don't say it...I know. She's nuts.

[greenamp]

Why not just have 1 and adopt 5?

[Salty]

Haha, Ok for the record, I don't mean to condemn adopting from other nations. What I mean to condemn is the mentality that does it because we think it's hip or trendy. Though perhaps that's from my desire to help people in North America first.

And, I have to say right now the idea of fostering appeals more to me. I know it can be heart wrenching to know that they might be taken away or something. But then there's also the fact that you might get to be the first person in a kid's life that shows them love! Even if you only have the kid for a year you can do a lot to help them heal. One of the reasons I'd really want to do that, is because I tend to really be able to help people straighten out their perspectives on life and stuff. Yah I know I've been working on mine for a while now... but quite frankly after dealing with this most normal people's problems seem like a breeze!
I had a friend recently challenge my counselling abilities, then another friend jumped to my defence saying, "Seriously one night talking with David and everything's OK, it's like you're cured!" haha, all I had to do was help her realize the reasons why she went with and stuck with an abusive boy friend, and the reasons she felt she'd failed her dad, and realize that she knew he still loved her even if she didn't want to admit it to herself.
Honestly I get annoyed at the reasons a lot of gay couples have or raise kids. I want someone to fulfill ME! I want someone to make ME whole, I want someone for ME to care for, etc etc etc. Or worse yet I want to prove something to people outside! Those sorts of motives really make me mad. If I did take in a child it would be because me and my husband (for the record don't like the word partner) felt we could offer a stable, caring and nurturing, and healing environment for the kids who we'd care for.
It helps that after grade 4 kids assume I'm the coolest person ever... no idea why... I heard a study the other day that suggests sarcasm is actually good for kids, helps em think... in which case any kids I raised would be brilliant!

[Jawbone54]

Originally Posted by greenamp

Why not just have 1 and adopt 5?

Or have 2 and adopt 2?

That's not the plan, smart guy. 3 then 1.

I'm joking. Who knows? So far the plan is 3 then 1.

[andi*pandi]

plans don't always work out like you expect.

I've considered adopting if we are unable to have a second. It would be hard though. There is some sense of failure at not being able.

For those wondering why adopt from other countries, it is because it is easier and faster. USA babies are in high demand.

[- - e r i k - -]

Who's your DADDY?

[Salty]

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - -

Who's your DADDY?

Creepy.

Originally Posted by andi*pandi

...For those wondering why adopt from other countries, it is because it is easier and faster. USA babies are in high demand.

Or, is the adoption system in the US just that out of wack? I would think if USA babies were in high demand, there wouldn't be any available.

[Cody Dawg]

Before we found out *we* were pregnant (now) we were seriously involved with adopting a baby from China (probably a girl since 9 times out of 10 they are little orphan baby girls) through an agency in Seattle that helps specifically with adopting Chinese babies. (We were at the point that we pay the agency a small fee and go to China when scheduled and pick the baby up - 3 to 6 months away.)

Not because we can't have children (this is baby number 4 - 3 of them are boys - and maybe this one will be a girl but we don't care) but because we have a wonderful home to offer a child.

We may still do it when our oldest goes to college in 5 years, but because of the baby we are waiting a while, but it is still something I would really like to do - and my husband is on the same page.

I would love a child the same whether it was our own biological child or not...it makes no difference. All children are wonderful. What people who aren't parents (yet) do not realize is that even though your biological child may have your physical characteristics, they are so completely unlike you in so many other ways that you cannot help but remember ALL of the time that these little human beings are completely separate and independent beings. We are always amazed at how different our children are from each other and from us with specific likes and dislikes. Just because they share certain genes that does not mean much because you soon realize that these little beings are completely autonomous.

Anyway, if you think adopting is the way to go then I say go for it - you will never regret it.



Edited to add that adopting a baby from China or other overseas countries is expensive but MUCH less than the majority of adoptions in the United States. China and Vietnam seems to be the least expensive. I am more than a little sad about the fact that we won't be going there to get our baby this year, but perhaps we will still be doing it - just in a few years.

[Charles Bouldin]

Anyone seriously thinking about adopting a child from China should go look at fwcc.org. I started that site (yah, I know it is incredibly basic) in 1995, which probably makes it one of the oldest continuously operating sites on the web.

I have two girls from China, now 11 and 14. To say they're the light of my life doesn't begin to express it.

There are now something like 45,000 children adopted from China to the US, thousands more in Canada and Europe. Outcomes seem to be overwhelmingly positive.

You will never regret it.

[Eug Wanker]

Yeah, it's become so common that Via Rail has an ad of a mother and daughter stretching their legs in their roomy Via Rail seats... except that the mother is Caucasian and the daughter is Chinese.

A little bit tangential to the topic, but nonetheless I remembered their ad just because of that. I guess their ad agency is earning their keep.

Now if they could only hire a decent web designer that cares about Safari... but I digress.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by screamingFit

Or, is the adoption system in the US just that out of wack? I would think if USA babies were in high demand, there wouldn't be any available.

There actually isn't really an overabundance of white American babies, as far as I'm aware.

[Salty]

Originally Posted by Chuckit

There actually isn't really an overabundance of white American babies, as far as I'm aware.

That's cause Rosie O'Donnell keeps eating them.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by darth-vader000

your now twisting Bible passages to suit your desires

How is that different than any religious person who wants to break some rules (they all do)?

[darth-vader000]

Originally Posted by Salty

I wasn't mocking crack babies you freaking moron. And you admit you're called to be Christ-like so stop being a holier than thou jack ass. And before you get down on my hermeneutical skills I suggest you bother to know my argument. Oh wait, right I forgot it's trendy these days to blindly oppose anything involving gay people! Jack ass.

I'm not attacking you for being gay, I'm saying that your completely involved in sin and your trying to use Bible passages to justify that. I may not be Christ like in all that I do, but I am not trying to twist the Bible.

I keep lurking here but then I see posts that you purport to be a practicing Christian yet you use profane language and are involved in those other issues I mentioned in my other post. I want to speak up and I apologize for coming off holier then thou, I could have worded differently to convey your desire to justify your actions.

You want to do them fine, that's your business, but don't try to say the Bible condones those things. As Bible college student, I'm surprised that you keep holding onto one Bible verse that you say condones it when in fact other passages in the NT and OT are very specific on this.

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

How is that different than any religious person who wants to break some rules (they all do)?

Absolutely no difference. I wasn't trying to make a distinction of Salty's desire to have sex with a man as much as his desire to use the Bible to condone his actions. Its no different if I tried to pull out a passage to try to say that its ok to steal. I was trying (not very well) to say that a bible college student training to be a pastor seems to be more interested in back sliding in sin then following in the footsteps of Jesus.

Even Non Christians on this board must see that incongruity

[Cody Dawg]

Charles Bouldin:

That's awesome of you. Just wanted to recognize you for doing something so positive and making the world and lives of others a little better.

[Doofy]

I concur with Darth.