[dave haas]

Originally posted by Oneota:
Here's a major annoyance -

There's no way to turn off the header/footer printing in Camino. We use a web-based system to print our student reports, and at the moment, we don't have a decent Mac browser to do it on.

I'll look at this this week. No promises, of course. The printing code scares me .

[dave haas]

Originally posted by fortepianissimo:
before I was able to use individual type-ahead search word in each individual tab

Yea, this one's tricky. I don't think you're going to be happy.

Here's what's happening. All the Cocoa-y apps in OS X share a search string. Like, if you search for "bananas" in one tab, and then switched to Mail or iTunes or something and brought up a search panel, it'd say "bananas". And if you searched for "apple" in one of those programs then went to Camino, it would want to search for "apple", too.

Just to demonstrate - start type-ahead finding for "bananas" on that last page, then switch to Mail.app and do a search for "Apple", then switch back to Camino and hit open apple-G. Ta-dah - it's looking for "Apple" too.

So this is the way it's supposed to work. I was so pleased when I got it fixed in the last week. And you don't like it

[Japser]

Originally posted by dave haas:
I'll look at this this week. No promises, of course. The printing code scares me .

Please check Bug 220201 I did some research and it seems it is possible by enetering some pref lines in the all.js file. But somebody needs to test this first. Interested Oneota?

[Oneota]

Originally posted by Japser:
Please check Bug 220201 I did some research and it seems it is possible by enetering some pref lines in the all.js file. But somebody needs to test this first. Interested Oneota?

Tried it; no go. According to this bug, there's a deeper problem (look at the last comment). The code for this is just plain broken on Mac OS X.

[fortepianissimo]

Originally posted by dave haas:
Yea, this one's tricky. I don't think you're going to be happy.

Here's what's happening. All the Cocoa-y apps in OS X share a search string. Like, if you search for "bananas" in one tab, and then switched to Mail or iTunes or something and brought up a search panel, it'd say "bananas". And if you searched for "apple" in one of those programs then went to Camino, it would want to search for "apple", too.

Just to demonstrate - start type-ahead finding for "bananas" on that last page, then switch to Mail.app and do a search for "Apple", then switch back to Camino and hit open apple-G. Ta-dah - it's looking for "Apple" too.

So this is the way it's supposed to work. I was so pleased when I got it fixed in the last week. And you don't like it

Aha - so it is an intended change. I can see why people want to have a single search string across different apps - that makes sense.

But could I make a suggestion? Since tabbed browsing sort of already changed the semantics of 'an' app, would that be possible to share the search string ONLY from the currently focused tab? So if in one tab I searched 'apple' but in another it's 'banana', then if the 'banana' one is currently showing, the other apps get the banana string. But if I switch back to apple, then the others see apple.

This way we probably can have the both worlds...

Thx for replying!

[dave haas]

Originally posted by fortepianissimo:

But could I make a suggestion? Since tabbed browsing sort of already changed the semantics of 'an' app, would that be possible to share the search string ONLY from the currently focused tab? So if in one tab I searched 'apple' but in another it's 'banana', then if the 'banana' one is currently showing, the other apps get the banana string. But if I switch back to apple, then the others see apple.

I don't think that would work like you'd want it to work.

Here's an example: you search for "apple" in one tab. You switch apps. That app says to itself, "ok - I'm looking for apples". You switch back to Camino (the "banana" tab). Camino's going to say "OK, I'm awake again. What was the last guy looking for? Oh - apples - I better start looking for apples too." So the banana goes away.

Each tab having a different string would only work as long as you didn't switch apps. And while you liked each tab to have its own search string, other people complained that they'd search for a word in one page then switch tabs and have to type in the word again. And that Camino didn't use the same find string as all the other apps. And I think it'd be really confusing if sometimes each tab had the same string and sometimes they all had different search strings. Ya know?

Not everyone can be happy - and in this case, you get the short end of the deal. Sorry

[Oneota]

Hi Dave,

Any help you could give on the printing issue would be appreciated - end-of-quarter is coming up soon so we'll have a bunch of reports to print off.

We've come up with a temporary workaround - namely, creating a custom paper size tha's 1/2 inch longer, and putzing with the margins, so that the headers/footers are actually printing, but printing off the page (probably onto the rollers, or something).

Needless to say, this is a suboptimal solution.

[bmedina]

The huge bookmarks patch has finally been approved for the official Camino build.

[DVD Plaza]

What I'd love to have is something really really basic - just an extra "Bookmarks" toolbar button that, when clicked, simply drops down the same menu as the Bookmarks menu. Presently I have a bunch of seperate menus on the Bookmarks Toolbar - would reather just remove that bar.

Two annoyances I have is with the "View Page Source" option:

1. A new copy of the page is fetched, and THAT source is instead displayed. Slow (on dialup) and troublesome when the page displayed is a result of POST data.

2. The source is displayed in a TAB! Sorry, I personally dislike tabs and specifically don't use them - yet viewing a page's source forces one upon me?!?

Otherwise I adore Camino and wish there was a "released non-beta" official version of the product in existance.

[Ludovic Hirlimann]

Originally posted by DVD Plaza:
Two annoyances I have is with the "View Page Source" option:

1. A new copy of the page is fetched, and THAT source is instead displayed. Slow (on dialup) and troublesome when the page displayed is a result of POST data.

2. The source is displayed in a TAB! Sorry, I personally dislike tabs and specifically don't use them - yet viewing a page's source forces one upon me?!?

Otherwise I adore Camino and wish there was a "released non-beta" official version of the product in existance.

1) there's a bug filled for that, see http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=153884
2) Open a bug if you're not satisfied with the product behaviour.

Some patches have been applied these last two weeks, this is really good when compared to this summers's without one patch being applied. There's an open bug list targeted for 0.8 some developers are working on them, some needs to be refined so the code responsible for it can be corrected. Feel free to comment in bugzilla.

[dave haas]

Hi. I put up a new unofficial build on my site. You can turn off header/footer printing, although it's not as friendly as I'd like. Plus some other small cleanups.

[dave haas]

Originally posted by DVD Plaza:

1. A new copy of the page is fetched, and THAT source is instead displayed. Slow (on dialup) and troublesome when the page displayed is a result of POST data.

As Ludovic mentioned, there's a bug filed. And the patch in that bug is applied in my unofficial builds - so they don't redownload source.

As for not displaying in tabs . . . that's a bug. If you don't want tabs, it's supposed to display in a new window. When the no-download source bug gets officially fixed I'll try to make sure the new window/new tab pref is satisfied.

[RoofusPennymore]

I installed the recent build and it won't remember my settings. forgets bookmarks, prefs, everthing...

[dave haas]

Originally posted by RoofusPennymore:
I installed the recent build and it won't remember my settings. forgets bookmarks, prefs, everthing...

My build or official build?

And it forgets everything between multiple quits/relaunches? Or just on the first time you started it up - after that, the setting you made stick?

[RoofusPennymore]

It's the offical nightly, everytime I restart camino it forgets.

[RoofusPennymore]

I removed the camino folder from Application Support. Camino doesn't even create a new folder. Appearently its operating off some sort of defaults in the program. Are I the only one having this problem?

[dave haas]

Originally posted by RoofusPennymore:
I removed the camino folder from Application Support. Camino doesn't even create a new folder. Appearently its operating off some sort of defaults in the program. Are I the only one having this problem?

I've heard of this happening before. Any chance this matches you?
1) Your home directory is on a network drive.
2) You set up your account, added a new drive/repartitioned a drive on your computer, and then moved your home directory to that new drive/partition.
3) You used carbon copy cloner or something to copy/move your account to a new drive
4) Your drive is formatted as UFS instead of HFS+

If none of these things is the case - and quitting Camino, getting rid of the folder ~/Library/Application Support/Chimera , then restarting Camino doesn't fix it for you . . . download a new build and throw your old build away.

[RoofusPennymore]

Don't ask my why or how but previous versions of camino were, apparently, using a folder in Application Support called Camino. Based on what I read here I took the contents of that folder and stuck them in a folder in the Chimera folder. Everything seems to be back. Weird.

Originally posted by dave haas:
I've heard of this happening before. Any chance this matches you?
1) Your home directory is on a network drive.
2) You set up your account, added a new drive/repartitioned a drive on your computer, and then moved your home directory to that new drive/partition.
3) You used carbon copy cloner or something to copy/move your account to a new drive
4) Your drive is formatted as UFS instead of HFS+

If none of these things is the case - and quitting Camino, getting rid of the folder ~/Library/Application Support/Chimera , then restarting Camino doesn't fix it for you . . . download a new build and throw your old build away.

[dave haas]

Originally posted by RoofusPennymore:
Don't ask my why or how but previous versions of camino were, apparently, using a folder in Application Support called Camino. Based on what I read here I took the contents of that folder and stuck them in a folder in the Chimera folder. Everything seems to be back. Weird.

My unofficial builds used the "Camino" folder. Official builds use "Chimera". Eventually, official builds will use Camino, too.

Glad its fixed.

[DekuDekuplex]

Originally posted by dave haas:

Originally posted by DekuDekuplex:
I just downloaded your update on Saturday, October 4, and it looks great! However, I encountered a problem when switching character codings.

Specifically, I check my e-mail on Yahoo!�, and have the Lime Green color scheme selected there. However, when I switch the character coding from Western (ISO Latin 1) to Japanese (EUC), the color scheme changes to the default Classic Blue.

For some reason, this problem does not happen in Mozilla 4 or Internet Explorer:mac 5.2. (On the other hand, Safari 1.0 v85 suddenly quits when I change the character set.)

Can this problem be fixed relatively easily?

DekuDekuplex

Hmm . . . since I'm limited in the languages I read, I've never seen this problem.

If you download a recent nightly build of Mozilla or an official nightly build of Camino, do you see the same problem?

If not - can you send me an e-mail at [email protected] which would have Japanese (EUC) characters in it? I'll see what happens.

I finally downloaded the most recent (October 30, 2003) build of Camino and installed it, but the same problem occurred.

I didn't have enough time to re-read the License Agreement for Mozilla 1.5, upgrade to it, and test it out. Currently, I'm still using Mozilla 1.4. As stated previously, the problem didn't occur in that version of that browser.

I'll try to test out Mozilla 1.5 next time, and let you know how the problem turns out.

--DekuDekuplex

[Oneota]

Originally posted by dave haas:
Hi. I put up a new unofficial build on my site. You can turn off header/footer printing, although it's not as friendly as I'd like. Plus some other small cleanups.

Cool...you're my new favorite person. You've made our secretaries very, very happy.

[DekuDekuplex]

Originally posted by dave haas:
Hi. I put up a new unofficial build on my site. You can turn off header/footer printing, although it's not as friendly as I'd like. Plus some other small cleanups.

I just tried out your build. It works great!

Unfortunately, the latest official nightly build (October 30, 2003) now crashes upon startup, but your build doesn't crash.

The official nightly build worked at first, but then I shut down my Mac for a couple hours, renamed my account, and then re-logged on, and it started crashing upon startup. Specifically, the Dock icon for Camino would hop up and down, but no background screen would come up, and no upward-pointing black triangle would appear at the bottom of the icon, either. Then, the icon would stop bobbing without ever starting the application.

I removed the Dock icon, the Camino executable in the main Applications folder, and tried to remove the Chimera folder in the "~/Library/Application Support/" folder, but the Chimera folder wasn't there!

Has anybody else experienced this problem?

I use a 17-inch [Rev. A] PowerBook (Machine Model PowerBook5,1 (version = 3.3)) with 512 MB RAM, using System Version Mac OS X 10.2.6 (6L60).

--DekuDekuplex

[DekuDekuplex]

Originally posted by dave haas:
Hi. I put up a new unofficial build on my site. You can turn off header/footer printing, although it's not as friendly as I'd like. Plus some other small cleanups.

After trying out your new build, one minor frustration I discovered was that there didn't seem to be an easy way to view the contents of both an "Imported Bookmarks" folder and the "Bookmarks Menu" simultaneously in the Bookmark Manager.

Also, I discovered that it is actually quite difficult to prevent folders from being put into other folders when rearranging the order.

At one point, I had to spend about fifteen minutes in going back and forth between an "Imported Bookmarks" folder and the "Bookmarks Menu" in order to verify that I hadn't misplaced any bookmarks in the wrong folders when one folder accidentally became misfiled into another folder during the rearranging process.

Would it be possible to find a way to view the contents of both of these locations simultaneously in the Bookmark Manager, while making it easier to keep from placing folders into other folders while rearranging them, perhaps by taking one or more of the following steps:

• allowing for a split view in the Bookmark Manager
  
• lengthening the amount of time before a spring-loaded folder shows its contents in the bookmark list
  
• increasing the linespace between rows in that list

--DekuDekuplex

[fortepianissimo]

Originally posted by DekuDekuplex:
Unfortunately, the latest official nightly build (October 30, 2003) now crashes upon startup, but your build doesn't crash.

The latest official (10/31) nightly crashed upon startup - confirmed here too.

[fortepianissimo]

I'm not sure if it's Panther, but since the past few weeks I've noticed that from time to time Camino would just freeze up for 2-3 seconds (beachball showed up). It also freezes up for 2-3 seconds upon startup.

I read somewhere that Panther has built-in "transparent" file defragmentation functionality (files < 20MB when accessed will be checked if fragmented). Just wondering if this is the cause, or there're something else.

(one thing is for sure, Safari 1.1 doesn't suffer at all - currently it's much faster than Camino, in Panther anyway)

[fortepianissimo]

Another thingy to report: when exporting bookmakrs (both official and Dave's build), the non-English characters got garbled - maybe the encoding is screwed up?

[Cadaver]

The 10/31 build crashes at startup for me, too. (G5, Panther)

The 10/30 build works fine.

[Catfish_Man]

Originally posted by Cadaver:
The 10/31 build crashes at startup for me, too. (G5, Panther)

The 10/30 build works fine.

Haven't tried 10/30, but 10/31 crashes on launch for me as well. Looking forward to when they get it working again, since they just checked in another performance boost.

[villalobos]

Originally posted by dave haas:
If none of these things is the case - and quitting Camino, getting rid of the folder ~/Library/Application Support/Chimera , then restarting Camino doesn't fix it for you . . .

You sooooo saved me. I had had that bug....well bugging me for months now.... Thank you thank you!!!! I did just that, and everything works now.

villa

[bonaccij]

I just tried the 10/31 build and it is crashing on startup for me as well. I removed the Chimera folder in the ~/Library/Application Support folder, and it still crashed. I am currently (now) using one the "unofficial" builds � 10/24 � and it is working great.

[pcurtner]

Working great on my PB G4 12" with 10.3, I was a big Camino 0.7 user until Safari 1.1 was released. This might swing me back..

Is there an easy way to change some key bindings? I would like to set next and previous tab the same as Safari's (shift-cmd-arrow).

FYI I did not trash my previous App Support/Chimera folder or files, and everything worked nicely. No sites have had any loading problems for me yet...

Great build.

-pwc

[dave haas]

I finally downloaded the most recent (October 30, 2003) build of Camino and installed it, but the same problem occurred.

Yes - a bug was filed. The person that first looked at it said, "ha! this will be easy to fix."

A couple days later he said, "gee - I've got no clue what's going on. Somebody else is going to have to help me out."

So it's being looked at.

[dave haas]

Originally posted by bonaccij:
I just tried the 10/31 build and it is crashing on startup for me as well.

This is a known bug in the nightly builds. The build machine moved to 10.3 and xcode - but nobody flipped the "make sure this still runs on 10.2" switch. It's being worked on.

[dave haas]

Originally posted by fortepianissimo:
Another thingy to report: when exporting bookmakrs (both official and Dave's build), the non-English characters got garbled - maybe the encoding is screwed up?

Hm. They shouldn't anymore on my build (the patch hasn't been put in the official build yet).

Could you send me a copy of your bookmark file from my build (in ~/Library/Application Support/Camino/bookmarks.plist), as well as the exported HTML file? And if when you do that you tell me what characters aren't coming out right, that would help a lot.

[email protected]


You also mentioned a 2-3 second lag at startup. That's because of the somewhat bad way site icons are handled. It would be nice to get that fixed one of these days.

[dave haas]

Originally posted by DekuDekuplex:
After trying out your new build, one minor frustration I discovered was that there didn't seem to be an easy way to view the contents of both an "Imported Bookmarks" folder and the "Bookmarks Menu" simultaneously in the Bookmark Manager.

The easiest way to fix this problem (for me at least, since it involves no work on my part):

Open 2 windows. Have one window set on the "Imported Bookmarks" folder. The other window set on "Bookmarks Menu" folder. Drag & Drop between the windows.

I can look at increasing the line space, but off the top of my head it seems like it's set automagically by Cocoa, so . . .

[ApeInTheShell]

I think what hurt Camino was the name change.

I can't associate a browser with a car, maybe a computer but not a browser. Apple hit the nail on the head with Safari.

If there is a new name for this browser, the interface is polished and it loads as fast as the older builds i'll download it. Until than ill stick with Safari and take look out for that ferocious Panther.

Chimera introduced me to tabs and since than i've demanded every browser have them i use.

[mactropolis]

Hello,

I would like to know if the current releases of Camino floating around the web (either official or Dave's) work OK on Mac OS X Puma (10.1)? I have a machine that still has 10.1 installed, and the last stable release (Camino 0.7) works great on 10.1.

I (sadly) read somewhere that the plan was to drop support for 10.1 after the 0.8 release. I hope this decision is revised as a sizable amount of people still use 10.1 for a variety of reasons.

Even Apple continues to release the latest iTunes with 10.1 support because a number of Mac users still use Puma and have not upgraded.

Hopefully we will continue to see Camino working on OS X 10.1 into the future.

[Catfish_Man]

Originally posted by dave haas:
This is a known bug in the nightly builds. The build machine moved to 10.3 and xcode - but nobody flipped the "make sure this still runs on 10.2" switch. It's being worked on.

crashes on Panther as well.

[Jim Paradise]

Originally posted by ApeInTheShell:
I think what hurt Camino was the name change.

I can't associate a browser with a car, maybe a computer but not a browser. Apple hit the nail on the head with Safari.

If there is a new name for this browser, the interface is polished and it loads as fast as the older builds i'll download it. Until than ill stick with Safari and take look out for that ferocious Panther.

Chimera introduced me to tabs and since than i've demanded every browser have them i use.

Urgh... I hate the name Safari. Sounds very childish to me and reminds me of Jumanji for some reason! Chimera was by far the best name for a browser.

[fritzair]

Originally posted by Oneota:
Hi Dave,

Any help you could give on the printing issue would be appreciated - end-of-quarter is coming up soon so we'll have a bunch of reports to print off.

We've come up with a temporary workaround - namely, creating a custom paper size tha's 1/2 inch longer, and putzing with the margins, so that the headers/footers are actually printing, but printing off the page (probably onto the rollers, or something).

Needless to say, this is a suboptimal solution.

What would happen if you downloaded the page. (Save-HTML)
And printed from a word processor?

Mike

[Oneota]

Originally posted by fritzair:
What would happen if you downloaded the page. (Save-HTML)
And printed from a word processor?

Mike

Well, since dave released a custom build that we can use to turn off header/footer printing, we don't need to do anything now.

But the extra steps required by your approach would have pissed off our secretaries, who are already relatively computer illiterate and annoyed by the slowness of OS X compared to OS 9 (they can't wrap their heads around the fact that their computers are doing twice as much work while feeling probably 85% as responsive).

And Hyatt assures me (on his weblog) that page-break support for Safari is coming, so soon we'll be able to bring everyone back to a single browser (not to dump on Camino - I like it better, personally, but campus policy is to settle on Safari).

[El Mariachi]

The nightly build works again...

It's from 3 november.

[mactropolis]

Anyone Know if these builds work on 10.1?

And how long is the plan to keep 10.1 support for Camino?

Thanks

[Ludovic Hirlimann]

Originally posted by mactropolis:
Anyone Know if these builds work on 10.1?

They should. Once they run on Jaguar they should run on panther too. See bug #224161

And how long is the plan to keep 10.1 support for Camino?

Thanks

Up until the Next Release which will be 0.8. After 0.8 is release newer releases wont support 10.1 (they might but it's not sure).

[fortepianissimo]

Originally posted by dave haas:
Hm. They shouldn't anymore on my build (the patch hasn't been put in the official build yet).

Could you send me a copy of your bookmark file from my build (in ~/Library/Application Support/Camino/bookmarks.plist), as well as the exported HTML file? And if when you do that you tell me what characters aren't coming out right, that would help a lot.

I was trying to hand-pick some of the problematic URLs to create a new bookmarks.plist and (exported) bookmarks.html to send to you, and then I found in the new bookmarks.* files the garbled characters are no longer there!

It seems that the problem only occurs with the bookmarks from older versions. Once you re-bookmark the URLs, the encoding seems to be correct...

(now it means I have to manually re-bookmark each of my 500+ URLs..? oh no)

[fortepianissimo]

There're some strange redraw problems lately (at least in the official build). For example, sometime the Google ads on top of this page are not shown, or only part of it is shown.

[dave haas]

Originally posted by fortepianissimo:
It seems that the problem only occurs with the bookmarks from older versions. Once you re-bookmark the URLs, the encoding seems to be correct

Yes, the way the .xml file was changed into .html didn't always work. But going from .xml to .plist (then .plist to .html) should work without a problem - so I don't think you're going to have to re-do your 500 bookmarks.

[passmaster16]

Originally posted by fortepianissimo:
There're some strange redraw problems lately (at least in the official build). For example, sometime the Google ads on top of this page are not shown, or only part of it is shown.

Yeah I get that occasionally. In fact sometimes all graphics, buttons, smilies won't show. Usually just closing out of camino and relaunching works for me. Kinda strange tho