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The Drunk of Haight
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Join Date: Feb 2006
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Aug 7, 2007, 06:39 PM
 
Poster child for what is wrong with park / How is it a public nuisance manages to hold off the S.F. justice system?

They can't seem to get rid of him, so they are using him as a poster child for what is wrong with the homeless population in SF.

He reminds me of someone else, just can't place my finger on it.
I like my water with hops, malt, hops, yeast, and hops.
     
nonhuman
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Aug 7, 2007, 06:52 PM
 
Amazingly enough, a piece of paper that tells someone they can't go somewhere or do something is only as effective as that person wants it to be if you're not willing to back it up with force...
     
::maroma::
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Aug 7, 2007, 07:47 PM
 
So they want him to leave the area? So he can just move to another area and do the same crap?

We kind of have a situation here in the city I live in. We have an ongoing argument over the homeless/drug addicts/alcoholics living and panhandling on the streets. Then there's the large group of "street kids" that choose to live on the streets for one reason or another. The argument is whether or not to spend the large amount of money needed to house and treat them, or to just enact laws that keep them generally out of the city.

I don't know where I stand on it, but what I do know is I can't walk one block without being begged for money. Generally I don't mind, but when I get asked 10 times just on my way to work, it gets really annoying. And the "street kids" congregate together and wind up blocking sidewalks and such. In a city such as this, where walking is the primary mode of transportation, this gets really annoying really fast.

I feel guilty for feeling like I just want them out of the way. But I can't give them all of my money. And even if I did, it wouldn't change a damn thing.
     
shifuimam
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Aug 7, 2007, 10:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by ::maroma:: View Post
The argument is whether or not to spend the large amount of money needed to house and treat them, or to just enact laws that keep them generally out of the city.
This whole homeless issue is an interesting topic for me. My mom has been a full-time employee at homeless shelters for around ten years, and was a part-time employee and volunteer before then. Our whole family was involved in homeless missions when I was a kid.

I've got a pretty good example of why throwing more money at the homeless problem isn't always a solution.

There's a guy in Indianapolis who comes into the local homeless shelter frequently. I cannot remember his name, so I'm going to call him Steve. Steve lives under a tree in the warmer months on the property of a local church in downtown Indianapolis. He comes from an affluent family who lives in one of the richest neighborhoods in the city. When Steve was in college, he got addicted to mouthwash. Apparently, once you can get past the burn, Listerine has some nice side effects that can be rather addicting.

Steve's parents poured money into his problem. They sent him to the best rehab centers in the state and in the midwest. He kept coming back to his addiction. Finally, after years of trying to help Steve, his parents said "enough!" and left him to his own devices. He has been homeless for years, is still addicted to mouthwash, and has no contact with his family.

No matter how much money you throw at an addict (and let's face it: most homeless people are addicts, even if it's "just" alchohol), they're not going to kick their addiction if they don't really want to. This story is one of the main reasons why I won't ever give money to people on the street.

I don't know where I stand on it, but what I do know is I can't walk one block without being begged for money. Generally I don't mind, but when I get asked 10 times just on my way to work, it gets really annoying.
Thank God that in Indianapolis, unwanted verbal solicitation is illegal. I have actually called the police before about homeless people who were aggressively panhandling. In Indy, the most you can do is hold a sign and shake a cup to get people to throw change at you. Speaking to someone to ask for money is illegal, and you can indeed have people arrested for it. I don't go willy-nilly calling the cops, but it's nice to know that I have a legal leg to stand on if I'm getting harrassed by some meth addict on the streets of my city.

Not to mention the fact that there is a such thing as "professional panhandling". Many of the people you see on the streets who are actively and aggressively panhandling have homes. They have material possessions. They make their money by guilting the naive and innocent into throwing money at them. You'd be surprised at how much you can pull in a day - tax free, of course - by panhandling in a large city.

I feel guilty for feeling like I just want them out of the way.
Don't. I can guarantee you that most of the homeless people in any city in America got that way because of some kind of addiction - gambling, alchohol, drugs, whatever. Addiction sucks the money out of you, and when you run out of money, you end up homeless. It's a vicious cycle, because most addictions have strong pulls on their addicts, so even if you get off the streets, you go right back because you dump what little money you have into your addiction(s). The point is, it's not like the majority of the homeless are that way because they just weren't given a chance. I pity their plight, but I don't ever feel guilted into giving them money. I'm more than happy to buy food for homeless people, but giving them money or allowing them to pass out drunk in front of a store is doing them no favors.

But I can't give them all of my money. And even if I did, it wouldn't change a damn thing.
True and true. Giving money to a homeless person is like giving them crack or heroin or liquor. If you want to help a homeless person, offer to take them to the nearest fast food place for a meal. If they say "never mind", you can be sure they wanted the money for a fix.

I don't think we should just ignore the homeless. But I also don't think we should try to give them more social programs or more money or more free rides. Donate money to your local homeless shelter. Volunteer. Give clothes and toys to your local thrift store. You might actually make a lasting difference in someone's life.
Sell or send me your vintage Mac things if you don't want them.
     
Mel O Drahmatik
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Aug 7, 2007, 10:56 PM
 
As far as drama queens go, this homeless fellow is certainly high ranking. Screaming at 4am. Wow.
     
   
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