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yzeater · Nov 12, 2002, 12:19 AM

Hey guys-
I'm a mac newbie (switched Friday), so maybe I'm asking a dumb question. After I've been using it a while, things slow down significantly. For example opening desktop in system prefrences takes 15 seconds, where at start up it would be amost instantaneous. Am I missing something here? I just use the normal mac base apps and KDX. What's slowing things down. I've run prebindings, and that doesn't help much. One more thing, this isn't only when I have several programs running, it also happens when nothing is running (except for sys prefs). I've done the CPU monitor and the ram monitor and such, and they seem to be at low levels. What am I missing? Thanks a lot
-Stephen

chadseld · Nov 12, 2002, 12:46 AM

This sort of thing happened to me several times with 10.2.0. It would be fast for about 2 weeks and then become extremely slow. IE went from 1 bounce to open to 11 bounces to open etc...
Reinstalling the OS would fix it but only for a week or two.

However, I havn't had any problem since 10.2.1. Since you just switched Friday, then you probably are running 10.2.1. Maybe its the same thing, maybe not.

My advice is to use the software restore CD and reinstall the OS (it is really easy with that CD).

Originally posted by yzeater:
Hey guys-
I'm a mac newbie (switched Friday), so maybe I'm asking a dumb question. After I've been using it a while, things slow down significantly. For example opening desktop in system prefrences takes 15 seconds, where at start up it would be amost instantaneous. Am I missing something here? I just use the normal mac base apps and KDX. What's slowing things down. I've run prebindings, and that doesn't help much. One more thing, this isn't only when I have several programs running, it also happens when nothing is running (except for sys prefs). I've done the CPU monitor and the ram monitor and such, and they seem to be at low levels. What am I missing? Thanks a lot
-Stephen

King Bob On The Cob · Nov 12, 2002, 12:46 AM

What version of OS X are you running?

snerdini · Nov 12, 2002, 12:50 AM

Run top in the terminal and see how much free RAM you have. I had the problem for a while where Mozilla would eat up all my RAM making my whole system feel slow. If I quit Moz and restarted it, the RAM was released and everything was fine again. But OS X should NOT slow down over time...I've had mine up for weeks at a time with nary a slowdown...

Cindy74 · 01:31 AM

I just noticed that tonight for the very first time after updating to 10.2.2.. Very strange. Hope someone knows something about this

yzeater · Nov 12, 2002, 07:23 AM

I've got 10.2.1

yzeater · Nov 12, 2002, 07:59 AM

Okay, I ran the terminal ram thing. I've got 512 ram, and 486 is used. That seems like too much! The big takers of ram are:
Finder - 80 MB
Internet Explorer - 70
SystemUISe - 52
Dock - 48
SecurityAg - 43
Maill - 50
Terminal - 47
iChatAgent - 25

So those are the biggest users of ram. Does that sound about right? Should 512 be enough ram. Just as note, the only things I have open are terminal, IE, and mail. As for the memory 52M is wired, 181 active, 253 inactive, 486 used, 25.5 free. Tell me if this helps you understand teh problem at all. Thanks

milenko11 · Nov 12, 2002, 08:09 AM

i've never had that problem until today! after I installed 10.2.2 its doing that same thing. it's fine after a reboot but then it starts to slow down significantly.

Cipher13 · Nov 12, 2002, 08:17 AM

512 is enough.

RAM isn't really an issue, given OSX's dynamic allocation system. The stats won't tell you much.

I think the best thing for you to do would be clean out all the caches (though that will break some things).

Clean them out, then use Apples 'Repair Permissions' thing in Disk Utility, after the reboot.

(cache locations are /Library/Caches/ and ~/Library/Caches/)

boots · Nov 12, 2002, 09:36 AM

In the terminal, run the "top" command.

If the list isn't long enough, drag the corner of the terminal window down further so you can see more processes running...

Look for

1405 ATSServer 0.0% 0:10.46 2 57 106 2.05M 8.75M 7.21M 136M
1257 ATSServer 0.0% 3:50.63 2 46 89 932K 3.93M 2.74M 33.6M

This is a weird bug where multiple ATSServer processes are spawned, and this really slows things down. Seems like every time you log in, a new ATSServer is started. You can safely kill all but the mos recent. If you kill the most recent, the finder will crash when anything requiring a font is called on. Basically, you will be logged out....

You can also see this in the "Process Viewer" utility. Probably a better idea if you aren't comfortable with terminal.

Toyin · Nov 12, 2002, 10:50 AM

I'd also get MacJanitor from version tracker and run it. This cleans up any Ram that isn't being used (plus a bunch of other tasks)

yzeater · Nov 12, 2002, 04:14 PM

Thanks a lot guys. How often should I have to run MacJanitor?

CheesePuff · Nov 12, 2002, 06:00 PM

Originally posted by Toyin:
I'd also get MacJanitor from version tracker and run it. This cleans up any Ram that isn't being used (plus a bunch of other tasks)

I second that. When I get up in the morning after it being on all night I have about 15 MB free of RAM, when its done running I have about 300 MB left.

ntsc · Nov 12, 2002, 06:09 PM

I second that. When I get up in the morning after it being on all night I have about 15 MB free of RAM, when its done running I have about 300 MB left.

That shouldn't be happening since MacJanitor is only running the internal system house keeping. This is set in the cron to run late at night. So, in theory this should already have run during the night. As a result MacJanitor is only doing the same thing again which shouldn't make much difference since the time elapsed is so small.

Avon · Nov 12, 2002, 06:39 PM

Originally posted by milenko11:
i've never had that problem until today! after I installed 10.2.2 its doing that same thing. it's fine after a reboot but then it starts to slow down significantly.

Same here. Im pretty pissed. Just wen I thought, I can hold out till the 970.

After the update my G4/400 comes to a halt after a days use.

Thinine · Nov 12, 2002, 06:54 PM

Repair your permissions. This is the most common cause of slow downs now.

cpac · Nov 12, 2002, 07:22 PM

Originally posted by Thinine:
Repair your permissions. This is the most common cause of slow downs now.

Agreed. Mine was fine, then I installed 10.2.2 and because of all the screwy permissions things were very slow, until I repaired them. Now everything is nice and Snappy�

Avon · Nov 12, 2002, 07:32 PM

Any way of doing it from the terminal? I really hate opening up Disk Utillity.

mikemako · Nov 12, 2002, 08:10 PM

on the contrary OS X is slowest when I first restart. Once I've been using it a while (opening and closing apps, moving files around, different users logging in and out) the system is more responsive. Much more responsive.

Does not OS X cache something in the UI to cause this?

Technicolor · Nov 12, 2002, 08:35 PM

I know this may sound stupid but you never know. Are you sure you're actually quitting the applications? I've seen many a Windows user just click the red button on the window thinking they've just quit the application. Make sure you go to File>Quit or use cmd+Q. Not many people seem to clue in to the fact that the little triangles in the dock mean that application is running.

Ok, remedial Mac lesson over...continue discussion.

wataru · Nov 12, 2002, 08:38 PM

Originally posted by Avon:
Any way of doing it from the terminal? I really hate opening up Disk Utillity.

Yes, the diskutil command can do this. Run diskutil without any arguments to see how to do it (there is no manpage).

About MacJanitor doing the same thing as the cron jobs... Yes, that is true, but MacJanitor also does the monthly and weekly jobs, which are not necessarily run any given night. So leaving your computer on all night for one night is not the equivalent of running the full suite of MacJanitor operations.

iT4c0 · 10:33 PM

Originally posted by milenko11:
i've never had that problem until today! after I installed 10.2.2 its doing that same thing. it's fine after a reboot but then it starts to slow down significantly.

i am experencing the exactly same thing on my FP imac. It pisses me off. I've try the disck utility repair and it DID repair A LOT of stuff, but it wouldn't solve the problem. I am going to try the software you guys mentioned and see if it helps.
It feels like OS X is running a hidden program that takes up all the CPU. I checked the CPU monitor and it is always on the top 99% of the time. then i go to process viewer but it shows no programing is using cpu. This is strange. well, if you guys have any news, let us know! I thought i was all along with this problem. I hope apple will fix this soon

update: Macjanitor did not work. I need to reboot my computer every 20 mins. This is pathatic. Help guys =(

Boochie · Nov 12, 2002, 11:34 PM

Don't worry too much about the "free" memory number that "top" shows you. Memory management under X is a different beast from OS9, and the free memory measurement isn't what we think it is. The quantity labeled "inactive" is also available for use when needed, and it points to memory being used as cache. A machine that is seemingly doing nothing will have its "free" memory decline over time, because X is using the RAM as a disk cache. Launch an application and the sum of the inactive and free memory counts will shrink. Quit the app and their sum will rise, though perhaps in different respective amounts.

The more meaningful quantities are the pagein and pageout counts. Pageins happen when information is transferred from disk to RAM (e.g., loading an application or transferring the contents of virtual memory to RAM). Pageouts happen when the contents of RAM are transferred to virtual memory. If you have a decent amount of RAM you'll probably see that you have many, many pageins but comparatively few pageouts.

Bottom line, don't sweat the apparent memory gobbling.

Originally posted by CheesePuff:

I second that. When I get up in the morning after it being on all night I have about 15 MB free of RAM, when its done running I have about 300 MB left.

slider · Nov 12, 2002, 11:36 PM

I am having the same problem after 10.2.2 update, I thought maybe is was my 8500 Radeon card, and that might still have something to do with it, but I am having the same problems, slow down after time. Mac OS X 10.2.2 867QS, 1.1GB of ram, Radeon 8500 mac edition

Going to try macjan

slider · Nov 12, 2002, 11:45 PM

OK, I ran Macjanitor, and it didn't help. I think my problem may be the graphics card. Time for a new post.

yzeater · Nov 12, 2002, 11:58 PM

I ran MacJanitor, installed 10.2.2, and restarted the system and everything is working well now! Photoshop started in like 5 seconds. Amazing

milenko11 · Nov 13, 2002, 08:05 AM

My system specs are 867QS, 1.5 gig of ram and GeForce 3 card. i've tried MacJanitor, Repairing permissions and cleaning out the cache with no luck. I think it has something to do with sleep though. After my system has been on for about 8 hours and I only ever notice it after it wakes from sleep. it seems like the is an app using all my processer and i have to reboot. a log out doesn't work

Toyin · Nov 13, 2002, 10:32 AM

I'd suggest creating a new user and see if all these problems exist for the new user. If they do, then you know it's corrupt preferences.

If it occurs with the new user, I'd reinstall OSX using the archive option and upgrade only to 10.2.1 and wait for 10.2.3 or a bug fix.

Eriamjh · Nov 13, 2002, 12:46 PM

Found this on today's Macintouch:

Skip Haughay followed up on an earlier letter about "the strange slow-down of 10.2.2":

Many of the users who are reporting this problem on Apple's discussion boards are using an HP printer driver. The symptom is as follows: The machine, after remaining idle for an extended period of time, will suddenly become very unresponsive. Moving the mouse will result in a UI that is unresponsive. iTunes playback stutters if you are using USB speakers. if you do a top -u from a terminal window, you will see that kernel_task is consuming a vast percentage of the available processor resources.
The problem seems to be slamming the system that handles USB. When the computer gets into this state, moving the mouse will cause CPU usage to increase, and if sound is being played through USB speakers, it will pop and stutter even more.
HP acknowledges that there may be a problem with their driver trashing USB in 10.2.2. I have uninstalled their drivers this morning, and am letting the iMac sit idle to see if the problem recurs.
If you run into this slow-down, and are indeed using an HP printer driver, with kernel_task and HP Communication taking up the top spots in top -u, make sure you email HP technical support about this issue.

HP Users are you?

yellowdog · Nov 13, 2002, 03:05 PM

I seem to have had that problem with HP Connection taking up a huge chunk of my process time. I removed it from my system and it does not appear to have had an bad effect on my printing to my HP printers.

Anyone have info on just what is the function of the HP Connection or what it is about it that is the problem?

yellowdog · Nov 13, 2002, 03:06 PM

Sorry - my bad - I meant HP Communication in my previous post.

iT4c0 · Nov 13, 2002, 03:40 PM

Originally posted by Eriamjh:
Found this on today's Macintouch:

HP Users are you?

wow, i have HP photosmart 1115. I noticed the HP communication thing too. but I wasn't sure if it was the problem or not. And my printer was SUPER DUPER SLOW. I hate HP now. They have a terrible software support. I am going to sell my printer and get an epson or something. I probably can't uninstall my HP driver yet cuz i got projects to do. I guess i will check HP website and see they have the new driver for us.
good luck guys!

Cindy74 · Nov 13, 2002, 03:50 PM

Originally posted by iT4c0:

wow, i have HP photosmart 1115. I noticed the HP communication thing too. but I wasn't sure if it was the problem or not. And my printer was SUPER DUPER SLOW. I hate HP now. They have a terrible software support. I am going to sell my printer and get an epson or something. I probably can't uninstall my HP driver yet cuz i got projects to do. I guess i will check HP website and see they have the new driver for us.
good luck guys!

I wouldnt go to Epson thinking their support is better because it isnt. It has been horrible... so has their attitude about supporting printers they still sell!! HP at least has provided drivers for OS X much sooner. I bought a printer from Epson last year they refuse to support and the same is true for their scanners.

iT4c0 · Nov 13, 2002, 04:39 PM

Originally posted by Cindy74:

I wouldnt go to Epson thinking their support is better because it isnt. It has been horrible... so has their attitude about supporting printers they still sell!! HP at least has provided drivers for OS X much sooner. I bought a printer from Epson last year they refuse to support and the same is true for their scanners.

man, you have no idea how bad hp is

It toook them forever to came out the 10.2 driver for their printers. now we got the same problem with 10.2.2 again. I mean come on! They sell HP printers in apple store. At least test the HP printer when they making 10.2.2. just like a guy from apple dscussion board said, WE are their beta testers!!
that is just pathatic

ok, since epson got the bad attitude the support, which one should i go for then? cannon? argh..i dunno, but i am sick of my HP printer. it tooks that crap 5 min. to start to printing. that is just unacceptable.

buzzsaw · Nov 13, 2002, 11:24 PM

I'm having the same problem with my imac, slows down horribly and can't kill applications. Effects itunes really bad, I hope HP is working on a fix. Thanks HP.

passmaster16 · Nov 14, 2002, 01:02 AM

Wow, good call guys. I thought i was just going nuts. I have a P1000 with that 2.0.5 driver and HP Communication is eating a pretty decent amount of resources for a freakin printer driver. Looks like another bug to file with HP.

Avon · Nov 14, 2002, 01:41 AM

Originally posted by Eriamjh:
Found this on today's Macintouch:

HP Users are you?

Yes I am an HP user. ARGGGGGGGGGGg.. I HATE HP.

They make junk drivers!!!!! ARGGGGGG.

Check out my HP1115<---------Pure junk post in the peripherals forum...

ARGGGGGGg...

Hp is junk.

Avon · Nov 14, 2002, 02:30 AM

Well that was it. My Mac is so Snappy now. Oh man, its good to have it back!

I really hate HP.I really hate HP.I really hate HP.I really hate HP.I really hate HP.I really hate HP.I really hate HP.I really hate HP.I really hate HP.I really hate HP.I really hate HP.I really hate HP.I really hate HP.I really hate HP.I really hate HP.I really hate HP.I really hate HP.I really hate HP.I really hate HP.I really hate HP.I really hate HP.I really hate HP.I really hate HP.I really hate HP.

Now that my computer is free of all HP drivers It feels brand new.
I recomend you use the HP 2.0.5 installer to delete your drivers, then trash all the drivers that apple installed just in case!

HPIJS has drivers for almost every HP printer around. They work very well!

Avon · Nov 14, 2002, 02:33 AM

Sooooo Snappy�!

Im a happy guy again.

I can't wait to write another email to customer service tomorow.

Musti · Nov 14, 2002, 03:50 AM

I have read somewhere a different solution to running MacJanitor, and it does the same "free-the-captured-memory" thing, but I really don't know why.

Open up Apple System Profiler, and watch your free memory increase with virtually no page-in/page-out activity, though there's a lot of disk churning as ASP scans your system.

You'll see more "dramatic" results if you have less applications open.

Does anyone know why?

Avon · Nov 14, 2002, 09:54 AM

Well my mac has been on for 12 hours now... No slow down.

Its back in good shape and faster than it has been in a long time...
Thanks HP, thanks alot.

JLL · Nov 14, 2002, 11:17 AM

Originally posted by yellowdog:
I seem to have had that problem with HP Connection taking up a huge chunk of my process time. I removed it from my system and it does not appear to have had an bad effect on my printing to my HP printers.

Anyone have info on just what is the function of the HP Connection or what it is about it that is the problem?

HP Communication has the same flaw in Mac OS 9.x.

Giovani Akira · Nov 14, 2002, 01:11 PM

Originally posted by Boochie:
Don't worry too much about the "free" memory number that "top" shows you. Memory management under X is a different beast from OS9, and the free memory measurement isn't what we think it is. The quantity labeled "inactive" is also available for use when needed, and it points to memory being used as cache. A machine that is seemingly doing nothing will have its "free" memory decline over time, because X is using the RAM as a disk cache. Launch an application and the sum of the inactive and free memory counts will shrink. Quit the app and their sum will rise, though perhaps in different respective amounts.

The more meaningful quantities are the pagein and pageout counts. Pageins happen when information is transferred from disk to RAM (e.g., loading an application or transferring the contents of virtual memory to RAM). Pageouts happen when the contents of RAM are transferred to virtual memory. If you have a decent amount of RAM you'll probably see that you have many, many pageins but comparatively few pageouts.

Bottom line, don't sweat the apparent memory gobbling.

Oh yes! Great!!