[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by JohnM15141 

Thats nonsense, the moment I find out I paid more than you, the value diminishes, it loses its worth when its found to be worth less.

Unless you were planning to sell your iPhone tomorrow, so what if it's value to other people diminishes? Did you buy it as some ridiculously misguided attempt at wealth investment or did you buy it because it was a good product that served your needs? I'm being completely serious, as somebody who has had things I've bought fall by much more than $200 in price within months. I paid what I thought was a fair price and got exactly what I wanted out of the purchase.

Originally Posted by JohnM15141 

There was no time to chalk it up to depreciation and there in lies the problem. This is not the way it works, thats why there are buyer protection programs, Attorney Generals, Better Business Bureaus, etc, to protect people from exactly what you are saying is the way it works and "tough cookie."

WTF? Are you joking? The Attorney General is not there to protect you from buying a product two months before a price cut. Seriously, contact his office and ask them — they'll tell you the same.

Originally Posted by JohnM15141 

I'll pay a premium for luxuries but I won't be gouged into paying the maximum I'm willing to pay for something that turns out to be worth less; like in this case.

Worth less? An item is worth whatever somebody is willing to pay for it. The iPhone was selling well at its old price point, so clearly it was worth that much to many people. Similarly, to me, the iPhone is not worth even its current price, so I'm not buying it.

[Silky Voice of The Gorn]

When you pay $1500 for your airplane seat, it is more than likely the fat ass on your right payed $600, and the shitheel on the left paid $750, the chick in front payed $350...

[smacintush]

Boy JohnM15141, you must get livid when you see a clearance rack at at a store…

[ebuddy]

Still, this all seems to miss the point. Apparently, JohnM15141 is not alone in his disgust. Perception is reality and the perception is that these first-adopters got screwed. Apple has been inundated with complaints, the stock value dropped, and there is now going to be some compensation for this issue. Name one electronic item at this price-point that has dropped 33% in 10 weeks since its original release. You won't find one. Period.

Loyal first-adopters are generally more tolerant of moderate price drops, newer technology etc, but the fact remains that this move obviously crossed the line. It's one thing to let your consumer R&D the product itself (i.e. failed convection-cooling design on original iMac, broken hinges/dead logic boards on Tibooks, scratch-imminent soft plastic casing on original nanos, etc...) it's another thing entirely to let them analyze your market as well. It's simply too competitive a market to play these games for too long. It'll bite ya in the a$$.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by smacintush 

I
Typical of many Americans. They always feel like they're "owed" something.

whoah woah leave you xenophobic ideas at the door.

It's usually the lefties in America that feel they are owed something. So bitch at them. Not America as a whole.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by ebuddy 

Still, this all seems to miss the point. Apparently, JohnM15141 is not alone in his disgust. Perception is reality and the perception is that these first-adopters got screwed. Apple has been inundated with complaints, the stock value dropped, and there is now going to be some compensation for this issue. Name one electronic item at this price-point that has dropped 33% in 10 weeks since its original release. You won't find one. Period.

Loyal first-adopters are generally more tolerant of moderate price drops, newer technology etc, but the fact remains that this move obviously crossed the line. It's one thing to let your consumer R&D the product itself (i.e. failed convection-cooling design on original iMac, broken hinges/dead logic boards on Tibooks, scratch-imminent soft plastic casing on original nanos, etc...) it's another thing entirely to let them analyze your market as well. It's simply too competitive a market to play these games for too long. It'll bite ya in the a$$.

I bought a G4 mirror door tower a week after the G5 coming out. I am POSITIVE I got it for cheaper than most mirror door G4 owners.

I don't but rev A products for this reason. They ALWAYS cost more. This has been a known fact, not just for Apple, but ALL companies that make any sort of product.

It doesn't matter what it cost to make it. Supple and demand. What people will pay for it is what they will sell it for. Obviously they were dead on with the original price. Or they'd not have sold the way they did.

If you are going to be angry at anyone, be angry at yourself for not being able to wait. Or not looking into such trends. Or for expecting a capitalistic company to not act like one.

I for one am no Apple zealot. The iPhone is still too much for me to pay for a cellphone, so I wont be getting one more than likely.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by ebuddy 

Perception is reality

Really? So you must be a professional artist, since that is perceived to be the demographic that owns Macs. Oh, what race are you? I bet I can tell even more about you that way, since people's perceptions can't be completely dumbassed and harmful to society.

Fact: Sometimes people are wrong. When they believe the government has a responsibility to make sure things they bought don't get less expensive in the near-to-mid future, that's one of those times.

The reason there is this "perception" that you're talking about is because the media likes to write anything it can about Apple, whether true or not. Apple's stock price has often gone down over things that were obviously false just because people were so eager to write about anything Apple. I could probably make a call to Engadget and influence Apple's "perception" right now.

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

Really? So you must be a professional artist, since that is perceived to be the demographic that owns Macs. Oh, what race are you? I bet I can tell even more about you that way, since people's perceptions can't be completely dumbassed and harmful to society.

Market profiles are indeed a contributing factor to ad campaigning. Professional artists? No. A general higher appreciation for the arts, audio and visual? Yes. According to market research Apple also enjoys more first adopters to new technology, and its users have a few more dollars in general. It seems to me, the last thing Apple would want to do is alienate and exploit its market base. I suspect this is why some compensation is forthcoming.

Fact: Sometimes people are wrong. When they believe the government has a responsibility to make sure things they bought don't get less expensive in the near-to-mid future, that's one of those times.

I'm certainly in agreement with you here. Is someone actually claiming this?

The reason there is this "perception" that you're talking about is because the media likes to write anything it can about Apple, whether true or not. Apple's stock price has often gone down over things that were obviously false just because people were so eager to write about anything Apple. I could probably make a call to Engadget and influence Apple's "perception" right now.

It doesn't make sense to disregard any notion of a consumer demographic. Apple will overcome slumping stocks by continuing to produce cutting-edge technology, superior quality hardware, and infinitely superior software as they've proven time and again. They will do so because of brand loyalty and first adopters. In one move, they've alienated both by exploiting the first adopters for a quick +$200.00/unit in less than 10 weeks. The reaction to this issue is proof IMO, that perception is reality. Unless you think Apple is in business to distribute $100.00 in-store credits of course.

[Mastrap]

Originally Posted by ebuddy 

the stock value dropped

Only in line with the entire market.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by ebuddy 

It doesn't make sense to disregard any notion of a consumer demographic.

I'm not. Demographics are irrelevant.

Originally Posted by ebuddy 

They will do so because of brand loyalty and first adopters. In one move, they've alienated both by exploiting the first adopters for a quick +$200.00/unit in less than 10 weeks.

Once again, that's total bullshit and I think you're smart enough to know it. As I recall, the iPod Touch had shot to the top of Amazon's bestseller list even before news of the rebate got out. I'm sure many people were somewhat annoyed (like I was when two of my Macs experienced big price drops), but only a vocal minority of the first-adopter demographic had this exaggerated sense of entitlement where they felt like Apple owed them $200.

Originally Posted by ebuddy 

The reaction to this issue is proof IMO, that perception is reality. Unless you think Apple is in business to distribute $100.00 in-store credits of course.

I don't see how a reasonable marketing expense (which actually makes them more money even without the primary effect of generating goodwill) proves that people somehow deserved iPhones for $400 two months ago. At most, it showed that Apple cares about its customers' feelings. If Apple really felt that their perception was reality, it would just have issued $200 refunds rather than $100 coupons.

[Dakarʒ]

Originally Posted by ebuddy 

Still, this all seems to miss the point. Apparently, JohnM15141 is not alone in his disgust. Perception is reality and the perception is that these first-adopters got screwed. Apple has been inundated with complaints, the stock value dropped, and there is now going to be some compensation for this issue. Name one electronic item at this price-point that has dropped 33% in 10 weeks since its original release. You won't find one. Period.

This is close to my line of thinking. As Apple consumers we've seen technology get cheaper and we've seen Apple issue price drops, but the fact is the sort of occurrence we've just witnessed was atypical and that has only been highlighted by the consumer reaction. These are the same people who have dealt with line refreshes and price drops in the past and have never reacted this badly as a whole.

Now Steve comes along and gives a $100 rebate to past iPhone purchasers. And I haven't heard any real complaints about it being only $100 or only usable at the Apple Store. So it doesn't seem these early adopters are being all that unreasonable.

Yeah, a lot of you were smart and didn't buy early. Good for you. Were you expecting the price to drop $200 after two months? Go ahead and pat yourself on back if you did.

As for the proclamations that the Apple price drop was just capitalism, that's fine. So was Steve's good PR $100 rebate. So what's left to argue about?

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by ebuddy 

Apple has been inundated with complaints, the stock value dropped, and there is now going to be some compensation for this issue.

Stock value drop had not a lot to do with it. As you can see, AAPL started strong this morning, + 3%.

Some pansies were afraid that Apple has problems seeling the iPhone. Well, Jobs just realeased the iPhone sales numbers as of 09/09/07, 1 M sold 21 days ahead of target, i.e. 20% faster than expected.

Seems like the price drop had NOTHING to do with bad sales. So be prepared for AAPL to go up a good junk today.

-t

[♥]

I bought the iPhone for my kid. We'll see what he thinks of it today. Truth be told, wouldn't have bought it except for the price drop.

[Jawbone54]

Originally Posted by Dakarʒ 

Were you expecting the price to drop $200 after two months? Go ahead and pat yourself on back if you did.

We'll still know they're liars.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by Dakarʒ 

This is close to my line of thinking. As Apple consumers we've seen technology get cheaper and we've seen Apple issue price drops, but the fact is the sort of occurrence we've just witnessed was atypical and that has only been highlighted by the consumer reaction. These are the same people who have dealt with line refreshes and price drops in the past and have never reacted this badly as a whole.

I bought a Color Classic for DM 2800 back in '93, two weeks before Apple gave up price-binding and the price dropped to DM 1795, IIRC - at any rate, I lost DM 1000 in just two weeks, which was exactly what I'd got for my beloved old Mac SE.

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by Kevin 

whoah woah leave you xenophobic ideas at the door.

It's usually the lefties in America that feel they are owed something. So bitch at them. Not America as a whole.

Well unfortunately they are the ones who stirring the pot and getting noticed. The press eats their bitching up and enhances the illusion that there is a "problem" that needs to be "fixed".

And while I agree that this seems to be a generally leftist trait I know plenty of otherwise fairly right wing people that still have this mindset.

[theDreamer]

After the price cut was announced I was a little upset, but I know the disadvantage of being a first end buyer (or early adopter) or a product.
Also, why are the consumers mad? You paid X price for a certain product, Apple felt they needed to lower it and now they have even more people buying it. It is all about justification of cost and reward. It is like someone complaining about paying a larger amount to buy a pre-built computer system v. a home build. Well the justification for the reward is greater than building it by oneself. Plus I found out I might be able to get my money back from my credit card company so I filled a report with them, and if I get some money back that is great, if not I guess I still get 100 dollar gift card from Apple.

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

I'm not. Demographics are irrelevant.

Brand loyalty and first adopters are not "irrelevant" demographics.

Once again, that's total bullshit and I think you're smart enough to know it. As I recall, the iPod Touch had shot to the top of Amazon's bestseller list even before news of the rebate got out. I'm sure many people were somewhat annoyed (like I was when two of my Macs experienced big price drops), but only a vocal minority of the first-adopter demographic had this exaggerated sense of entitlement where they felt like Apple owed them $200.

First of all, I've not used the phrase "entitled" or "refund" or "rebate" or anything that would suggest I think Apple should compensate early iPhone purchasers. I think Apple should've either offered the iPhone for less out of the gate or waited longer for the price drop. I'm still waiting on the electronics purchase at this price point that dropped 33% in less than 10 weeks. You won't find one. The Macs purchases that you were frustrated about did not drop 33% in less than 10 weeks. I'm guessing they dropped a little more like 15% in at least 10 months. I'm also guessing you'd have been more than just a little annoyed.

Second of all, you're claiming a statement of mine was total bullshit when I mentioned that brand loyalty and first adopters were and are critical to Apple's success. You can claim bullshit, but it's been an integral part of their business model. One that is the envy of many a manufacturer. Most people don't need yet another cell phone, especially at $600.00 and the fact that the phone is proprietary to AT&T service was a deal breaker for almost everyone I've talked to. Offering what is basically an iPhone without the phone at a more affordable price and of course people are going to gobble it up.

I don't see how a reasonable marketing expense (which actually makes them more money even without the primary effect of generating goodwill) proves that people somehow deserved iPhones for $400 two months ago. At most, it showed that Apple cares about its customers' feelings. If Apple really felt that their perception was reality, it would just have issued $200 refunds rather than $100 coupons.

I'm telling you I think it's shoddy business practice, I didn't claim Apple was going to go belly up. If they didn't believe perception was reality, they wouldn't have offered the in-store credit at all. The fact of the matter is they're assuming they can take this on the chin. They likely will, but it doesn't mean I have to appreciate shoddy business practice.

I have a hunch had Microsleaze done this to its consumers, you'd all be rolling around on the floor in laughter and disgust.

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Stock value drop had not a lot to do with it. As you can see, AAPL started strong this morning, + 3%.

The new product line at lower price point certainly helps.

Some pansies were afraid that Apple has problems seeling the iPhone. Well, Jobs just realeased the iPhone sales numbers as of 09/09/07, 1 M sold 21 days ahead of target, i.e. 20% faster than expected.

"pansies"??? Can't people simply use a product without it becoming a way of life for crying out loud? Snap out of it. Apple was supposed to have 4.6million units on the market by the end of the year. Let's see how they do. My guess is a price drop of $200.00 would have them right about where they want to be and that they know exactly what they're doing. Yes, it has absolutely everything to do with the original price point. It was nothing less than a big middle finger to everyone who bought early. Any iPhone purchasers here cool with it?

Seems like the price drop had NOTHING to do with bad sales. So be prepared for AAPL to go up a good junk today.

-t

It certainly may. After all, no one's questioning whether or not you can screw people over for a buck. We all know you can. I just think a great many weren't convinced Apple was quite capable of this blatant a display.

[Mastrap]

Originally Posted by JohnM15141 

I'll pay a premium for luxuries but I won't be gouged into paying the maximum I'm willing to pay for something that turns out to be worth less; like in this case.

You paid what you thought it was worth. Does your iPhone somehow perform worse now that the price has dropped? No. Has functionality disappeared? No. Did Apple force you somehow to buy an iPhone? No. I was your decision, and yours alone.

One of the most basic lessons in economics states that goods are only ever worth what the market is prepared to pay for them. When you bought your phone you made your bed, now don't complain about it.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by ebuddy 

"pansies"??? Can't people simply use a product without it becoming a way of life for crying out loud? Snap out of it. Apple was supposed to have 4.6million units on the market by the end of the year. Let's see how they do. My guess is a price drop of $200.00 would have them right about where they want to be and that they know exactly what they're doing. Yes, it has absolutely everything to do with the original price point. It was nothing less than a big middle finger to everyone who bought early. Any iPhone purchasers here cool with it?

I think you misunderstood. I was referring to those "investors" and analysts that dropped Apple like a hot potato due to the price drop.

-t

[starman]

I'm curious:

If there was a 33% price drop because "that's technology", then where are the other devices that use the same parts that dropped 33%?

Hmmm....

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by starman 

I'm curious:

If there was a 33% price drop because "that's technology", then where are the other devices that use the same parts that dropped 33%?

Hmmm....

There are no other devices that use all the same parts as the iPhone (particularly the more expensive bits), as far as I know.

Also, price != cost of parts. Price is largely a function of supply and demand. Supply for the iPhone seems to have greatly increased.

[starman]

Still, 33% is rather drastic, even for this market. I'm still trying to figure out how they came up with that number and still kept their "Apple Tax".

If it's not parts, then the margins were far more than expected, even if there was a report about how much it costs to make the iPhone. If Apple can still make a decent profit after releasing the phone after two months, then someone had to know that they could have lowered the price on June 29.

[Dakarʒ]

Maybe their AT&T margins are better than expected?

[Mastrap]

Rule number one of business: You charge as much as possible.

A guy who was mentoring me when I was running my first business suggested to me that I'd double my prices. When I told him that I was worried that I would be losing business he shrugged. "So what? Even if you lose 50% of your business you'll still be making the same money you're making now for 50% of the work."

In the event, business actually went up after the hike.