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The Russian Connection (Page 12)
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Cap'n Tightpants
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Jul 27, 2017, 08:11 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Not only is it not fake news, it ceased to be a conspiracy once Junior released the emails that said Russia want to help you and replied, "I love it."


Stop trying to derail the thread.
Yes, it's fake news.

How is he derailing? The Clintons and little Debbie have been deeply involved with Russia, you could even say it reached the point where it was "radioactive".
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The Final Dakar  (op)
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Jul 27, 2017, 08:23 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
If he can successfully derail this thread he needs to fire off an email to jobs@whitehouse.gov.
Does it need to be successful for the complaint to be valid? Personally, I don't care to scroll through mounds of irrelevant posts. I tried to be affable by going along with the alien jokes but obviosuly it wasn't good natured.

Originally Posted by subego View Post
I think it's appropriate to discuss in one of the Russia threads the contrast in coverage so far.
It has nothing to do with the Russia thing. Compare contrast it in the general news thread if you want. Or a fresh thread. I'm sick of this thread being a dumping ground for any negative articles about dems because its a monument to how much lying his campaign and administration have done.
     
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Jul 27, 2017, 08:31 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...mittee/534864/

Is this the right thread? Or maybe this is better suited to the "how do you feel about Russia thread."
And then the obvious happens - he gets arrested and deported, and everybody that's working on his side gets imprisoned, poisoned, thrown off a building, or just murdered.
Finally got to read this today. I can see why you posted it in here.

Sergei refused. In spite of the grave pain they inflicted upon him, he would not perjure himself or bear false witness.
This guy is inhuman. I have no idea how you have the nuts to endure a sliver of what he did and not break.

The lawyer who represented Sergei Magnitsky’s mother, Nikolai Gorokhov, has spent the last six years fighting for justice. This spring, the night before he was due in court to testify about the state cover up of Sergei Magnitsky’s murder, he was thrown off the fourth floor of his apartment building. Thankfully he survived and has carried on in the fight for justice.
I'm pretty sure this guy was in the piece I was referring to earlier. I tried googling it today but came up empty. Unfortunately I think it was something I discovered in my twitter feed last month or two. I also remember it was a very, very long read.


When asked by a group of journalists about the death of Sergei Magnitsky, Medvedev replied, “It’s too bad that Sergei Magnitsky is dead and Bill Browder is still alive and free.”
That is god damn chilling. Given the amount of people Putin has supposedly killed in the UK, i don't udnerstand how this guy can reside there.

Veselnitskaya, through Baker Hostetler, hired Glenn Simpson of the firm Fusion GPS to conduct a smear campaign against me and Sergei Magnitsky in advance of congressional hearings on the Global Magnitsky Act. He contacted a number of major newspapers and other publications to spread false information that Sergei Magnitsky was not murdered, was not a whistle-blower, and was instead a criminal. They also spread false information that my presentations to lawmakers around the world were untrue.
Now I understand why they want to talk to FusionGPS.
     
subego
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Jul 27, 2017, 08:45 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Does it need to be successful for the complaint to be valid? Personally, I don't care to scroll through mounds of irrelevant posts. I tried to be affable by going along with the alien jokes but obviosuly it wasn't good natured.


It has nothing to do with the Russia thing. Compare contrast it in the general news thread if you want. Or a fresh thread. I'm sick of this thread being a dumping ground for any negative articles about dems because its a monument to how much lying his campaign and administration have done.
My honest assessment before any of these posts were made was "wow... considering how bad these optics are, and how people just love punching Debbie in the throat, it's really weird how some of the patriotism which impels the press to do wall-to-wall Russia coverage isn't rubbing off on this."

If this isn't where you want that to be, I don't have a problem accommodating, but I don't think the thought process putting it here is from outer space.
     
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Jul 27, 2017, 10:26 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
My honest assessment before any of these posts were made was "wow... considering how bad these optics are, and how people just love punching Debbie in the throat, it's really weird how some of the patriotism which impels the press to do wall-to-wall Russia coverage isn't rubbing off on this."

If this isn't where you want that to be, I don't have a problem accommodating, but I don't think the thought process putting it here is from outer space.
Therefore my references to P'Lod. Jr was promised dirt on Hillary and instead was lobbied about adoptions. There is more proof that P'Lod secured victory for Trump than there was collusion with Putin on the release of the Podesta/DNC emails.
     
subego
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Jul 27, 2017, 11:39 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
Therefore my references to P'Lod. Jr was promised dirt on Hillary and instead was lobbied about adoptions. There is more proof that P'Lod secured victory for Trump than there was collusion with Putin on the release of the Podesta/DNC emails.
In terms of the possibilities, provable collusion of Trump and Putin on the release of the emails is extremely unlikely.

As far as Junior is concerned, I think it's complicated, but not because he got baited and switched.

If he intended to get dirt, that he failed is for the most part irrelevant. At least, that's how my moral code works.

I'm not religious, but owe religion a debt for giving me the means to unapologetically swipe the idea of "God sees into your heart".

The complicated part is how much he deserves to pay for what was in his heart.
     
subego
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Jul 27, 2017, 11:42 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
Therefore my references to P'Lod.
Something was telling me I should be using a different metaphor, but I went with it anyway.
     
Chongo
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Jul 28, 2017, 05:37 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
In terms of the possibilities, provable collusion of Trump and Putin on the release of the emails is extremely unlikely.

As far as Junior is concerned, I think it's complicated, but not because he got baited and switched.

If he intended to get dirt, that he failed is for the most part irrelevant. At least, that's how my moral code works.

I'm not religious, but owe religion a debt for giving me the means to unapologetically swipe the idea of "God sees into your heart".

The complicated part is how much he deserves to pay for what was in his heart.
Yet, where there is solid evidence of collusion on the part of the DNC and Ukraine, including visits to the Ukrainian embassy, we have silence for the most part from the media.
     
subego
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Jul 28, 2017, 11:19 AM
 
I'm fine with that being looked into.

Likewise, when the emails were leaked, I pissed all over the argument the people who took and leaked the emails had any bearing on the Democrats' responsibility for the email's content.

In a similar vein, I'm going to piss all over the argument it matters who figured out Manafort's on Russia's payroll.
     
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Jul 28, 2017, 12:25 PM
 
For some reason, I could really go for a snack cake about now.
     
subego
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Jul 28, 2017, 12:37 PM
 
I want credit for not needing Russian hookers.
     
Chongo
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Jul 28, 2017, 12:41 PM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
For some reason, I could really go for a snack cake about now.
Try this:
     
andi*pandi
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Jul 28, 2017, 01:00 PM
 
Uh, no thanks!
     
subego
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Jul 28, 2017, 01:27 PM
 
I think the video peaks with

 
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Jul 28, 2017, 06:48 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I'm fine with that being looked into.
As am I. We deserve to know if both our candidates were even worse than we possibly imagined.

---

"Hello, Reince? Hey, it's Bob Mueller."
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Jul 31, 2017, 04:36 AM
 
That's what I thought:

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besson3c
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Jul 31, 2017, 09:14 AM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
That's what I thought:


And why is this a surprise?

It still seems to me that you guys are taken aback or surprised by the media's behaviour? This sensationalism is not new. The Russia story makes for great media entertainment, and while I still maintain that it is too early to call it a nothing burger, I can definitely see it as more entertaining than it is useful to the American people in the long run.

I mean, worst/best case scenario it leads to a resignation, but a president Pence might actually be more effective than a president Trump in terms of passing legislative and lasting change. Trump reflects a really ugly side to American culture, but this is not disappearing with him out of office.

So, yeah, that Americans are hungry for getting shit done and repairing what seems to be more and more a broken country is not surprising to me. You, CTP?
     
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Jul 31, 2017, 09:16 AM
 
In fact, I would say that the media is part of this ugly reflection of America - capitalism and greed at its worst.

We need to figure out if we want that, or if we care about the middle class and the greater good.
     
Laminar
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Jul 31, 2017, 01:23 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
That's what I thought:
"Focus of Trump Coverage" - is health care coverage necessarily Trump coverage?

Haha, Politifact already got it. Guess someone got Fake Newsed.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...edia-coverage/

The Media Research Center analysis is limited. It is important to note that this study was only looking at network evening newscasts from ABC, CBS and NBC.

It doesn’t include Fox or Fox News, CNN, MSNBC or any other cable news channel. It also doesn’t include newspapers or radio or online publications like Politico. On top of that, the analysis only covers about a month (May 17-June 20).
     
subego
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Aug 1, 2017, 01:56 AM
 
So... the Amazon CIA dropped Trump personally wrote Junior's initial BS statement about his meeting with the Russian lawyer.

Against everyone's recommendations.

On the plane home after his off-the-record meeting with Putin.


Speculation mill says the leak came from "a ****ing paranoid schizophrenic cock-blocker".
     
subego
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Aug 1, 2017, 06:06 AM
 
If it was Priebus, he must have blabbed before Mooch went down.

One has to assume he didn't want this competing with the Mooch autopsy.
     
subego
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Aug 1, 2017, 08:04 AM
 
In the Post's analysis of its own piece, the claim is this story was leaked because his staff thinks this is the only way it'll get into Trump's thick skull this was an unforced error.

Not sure I buy it, but this one definitely doesn't fit the normal leak profile.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Aug 1, 2017, 02:24 PM
 
I'm a little lost as to why this matters, aside from his habitual lying.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Aug 1, 2017, 02:29 PM
 
I had a thought. Would Kelley take the CoS job if he thought Trump was involved with the Russians? My gut says no.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Aug 1, 2017, 02:45 PM
 
...and the White House just confirmed the article and threw the lawyer spokesman under the bus.
     
subego
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Aug 1, 2017, 03:00 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
I'm a little lost as to why this matters, aside from his habitual lying.
AFAICT, it has little import beyond being epically pig-headed.

If the leak is staff rebellion as the Post opines, then it's been checked over for truly damaging implications.
     
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Aug 1, 2017, 07:49 PM
 


Now why did Jared come to mind...
     
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Aug 1, 2017, 09:16 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
If the leak is staff rebellion as the Post opines, then it's been checked over for truly damaging implications.
I don't think it's a staff rebellion, it's the different factions in the White House battling it out using the press as a tool. There was talk of Priebus and Bannon being forced out in April. Who do you think this is from? “Rebellious staff”? Priebus? Bannon? Nope, I don't think so, you just need to do the math and it's clear who the source of that particular leak was.
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Aug 1, 2017, 09:51 PM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
I don't think it's a staff rebellion, it's the different factions in the White House battling it out using the press as a tool. There was talk of Priebus and Bannon being forced out in April. Who do you think this is from? “Rebellious staff”? Priebus? Bannon? Nope, I don't think so, you just need to do the math and it's clear who the source of that particular leak was.
That source loves chatting to the press, too.
     
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Aug 2, 2017, 12:25 AM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post


Now why did Jared come to mind...
Is "not getting out" code for "not pussy grabbing"?
     
subego
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Aug 2, 2017, 12:27 AM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
I don't think it's a staff rebellion, it's the different factions in the White House battling it out using the press as a tool. There was talk of Priebus and Bannon being forced out in April. Who do you think this is from? “Rebellious staff”? Priebus? Bannon? Nope, I don't think so, you just need to do the math and it's clear who the source of that particular leak was.
The only reason I would even consider the "staff rebellion" idea is because someone at the Post tossed it out, and I imagine they may have the inside scoop.
     
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Aug 2, 2017, 12:33 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
Haha, Politifact already got it. Guess someone got Fake Newsed.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...edia-coverage/
Until Politifact cleans up its conflicts of interest, no one should take them seriously. http://www.weeklystandard.com/confli...rticle/2004689
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Aug 2, 2017, 12:54 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Until Politifact cleans up its conflicts of interest, no one should take them seriously. http://www.weeklystandard.com/confli...rticle/2004689
s'funny. I followed your link and...

The story claims that Polifact finds 2 or 3 times more Republican stories to be fake than Democrat. Which is only biased if 2 or 3 times as many Republican stories AREN'T fake news than Democrat stories, so we would need to see the original reports to find out if this is the case.

The first link in the story doesn't actually work, so on to the second... which 404's as well, so, no independent verification.

It's only bias if it's bias.
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Aug 2, 2017, 01:07 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doc HM View Post
The first link in the story doesn't actually work, so on to the second... which 404's as well, so, no independent verification.
There's something wrong with your internets then, because they work fine for me.

Here's the first link, does it work for you?
http://www.weeklystandard.com/lies-d...article/611854

How about the second?
http://www.weeklystandard.com/once-a...article/732009

the third?
http://www.politifactbias.com/2016/0...n-clinton.html

or the forth?
http://www.politifactbias.com/2016/0...ples-from.html

the fifth?
http://thefederalist.com/2015/04/29/...-free-hackery/

Let me know what more you need while you struggle with your ISP problems.

The story claims that Polifact finds 2 or 3 times more Republican stories to be fake than Democrat. Which is only biased if 2 or 3 times as many Republican stories AREN'T fake news than Democrat stories, so we would need to see the original reports to find out if this is the case.
If you don't get the problem with selection bias in the first place, there's really nothing to talk about.
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Aug 3, 2017, 05:08 AM
 
Originally Posted by Doc HM View Post

The story claims that Polifact finds 2 or 3 times more Republican stories to be fake than Democrat. Which is only biased if 2 or 3 times as many Republican stories AREN'T fake news than Democrat stories, so we would need to see the original reports to find out if this is the case.
I'm surprised its not more. They live in a fantasy world where every tidbit of news is has to agree with and entertain them at the same time or "its fake".
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
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Aug 3, 2017, 05:22 AM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
There's something wrong with your internets then, because they work fine for me.

Here's the first link, does it work for you?
http://www.weeklystandard.com/lies-d...article/611854

How about the second?
http://www.weeklystandard.com/once-a...article/732009

the third?
http://www.politifactbias.com/2016/0...n-clinton.html

or the forth?
http://www.politifactbias.com/2016/0...ples-from.html

the fifth?
http://thefederalist.com/2015/04/29/...-free-hackery/

Let me know what more you need while you struggle with your ISP problems.



If you don't get the problem with selection bias in the first place, there's really nothing to talk about.
It was the internal links IN the article that were broken. The ones to the independent surveys that they were claiming generated the data. Further links to the same source and others are not useful.
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Cap'n Tightpants
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Aug 3, 2017, 10:46 AM
 
Originally Posted by Doc HM View Post
It was the internal links IN the article that were broken. The ones to the independent surveys that they were claiming generated the data. Further links to the same source and others are not useful.
No, those work fine. Check your ISP.
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Aug 3, 2017, 04:37 PM
 
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Aug 4, 2017, 01:06 AM
 
The "tampering with the election" being they spilled the beans on how shitty Hillary was (esp to a member of her own party).
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Aug 4, 2017, 08:05 AM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
The "tampering with the election" being they spilled the beans on how shitty Hillary was (esp to a member of her own party).
Never committed treason though did she? I can understand you hating her, but Trump is so obviously worse in every respect. Its baffling.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
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Aug 4, 2017, 08:51 AM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
Never committed treason though did she? I can understand you hating her, but Trump is so obviously worse in every respect. Its baffling.
Neither did Trump, and your hyperbole doesn't count. Hell, top legal experts aren't even sure what he did was illegal, much less treasonous. What's baffling is how you conflate every little thing you see about Trump into 100x more than it is, merely because of your hate.
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Aug 4, 2017, 10:21 AM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
Never committed treason though did she? I can understand you hating her, but Trump is so obviously worse in every respect. Its baffling.
She did by NOT protecting national security data and by her incompetence allowed hackers to get her emails, which had classified info attached. Even after her 'council' advised her to NOT use the outside server. Ask Debbie Wasserman Schultz about her involvement with the Pakistani IT guy, now in custody, and the missing computers.
     
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Aug 4, 2017, 12:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by BadKosh View Post
She did by NOT protecting national security data and by her incompetence allowed hackers to get her emails, which had classified info attached. Even after her 'council' advised her to NOT use the outside server. Ask Debbie Wasserman Schultz about her involvement with the Pakistani IT guy, now in custody, and the missing computers.
Do you believe that Trump has mishandled classified information?
     
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Aug 4, 2017, 03:37 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
Do you believe that Trump has mishandled classified information?
This would be difficult to do, as the President can release (declassify) anything he/she pleases. So if he uses a weak password and it gets broken, he can just say it was deliberate. And Trump wouldn't have gotten any classified info before being elected, so only the presidential context applies.

Now, if he blabbed and endangered spies in the field, I would personally buy that as mishandling classified info.
     
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Aug 4, 2017, 08:03 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
Do you believe that Trump has mishandled classified information?
The US classification system is for the most part based on various executive orders, and the US President is the ultimate classification authority. During the 2016 campaign some critics of Hillary Clinton were conjecturing how she could ever again receive authorization to have access to classified information were similarly misunderstanding how the classification system worked. Trump could legally declassify the nuclear launch codes tomorrow.

The only real remedy for carelessly or deliberately declassifying information is impeachment as this is a political as opposed to a legal measure.
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Aug 4, 2017, 08:36 PM
 
Originally Posted by reader50 View Post
This would be difficult to do, as the President can release (declassify) anything he/she pleases.
That's true, however why it was declassified matters.
     
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Aug 4, 2017, 09:09 PM
 
I wish he would declassify info about Area 51...
     
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Aug 5, 2017, 07:33 AM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
I wish he would declassify info about Area 51...
Maybe that was what that second secret meeting Trump had with Putin was about.


BTW, Area activity 51 has moved on to Area 52
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Aug 5, 2017, 07:34 AM
 
Looks legit.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
BadKosh
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Aug 5, 2017, 08:32 AM
 
The LWMSM will do anything to keep the Debbie Wasserman Schultz/Pakistan story to gain traction. Sadly the left isn't too bright and the story is kind of complex. Don't expect the media to get it right anytime soon.
     
 
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