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You are here: MacNN Forums > Hardware - Troubleshooting and Discussion > Mac Desktops > I hate my new 1.25DP!!! Please help??? (Firewire 800 Model)

I hate my new 1.25DP!!! Please help??? (Firewire 800 Model)
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whokilledkaji
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Mar 5, 2003, 09:57 PM
 
Ok guys... I am having serious problems with my brand new dual 1.25 (Firewire 800) Powermac... I'm starting to hate this lovable Mac, so can you please help?
Here's what's going on:

I recieved the Mac about one week ago. After my initial setup and subsequent re-start, I upgraded to 10.2.4 and updated the firmware...

I noticed right away that applications were crashing left and right... Particularlly Apple programs like iChat, Address book, the Finder and iPhoto... I was getting bad wake up from sleep problems as well as in-volutary log outs and the fancy new kernel panic screen...

I got a little worried so I checked my hardware... The hardware test showed nothing... I swapped the Ram and nothing... I did disk repair and fsck, nothing there either...

I thought it must be 10.2.4 so I restored the entire machine... What a pain... This time I remained in 10.2.3... The software updater did ask about installing new firmware though... Strange? Thought that was supposed to stick... Hmmm...

Anyways, after the downgrade things were a little smoother... No major problems, but a little flaky here and there...

Then I launched iPhoto 2... Holy cow... Maybe worse crashes than before! Is it possible that iPhoto is the bad seed here? I heard that there might be a bug with dual processors a while back, but I'm not too sure...

I totally removed everything associated with iPhoto and now the system seems stable enough... It's been on for a whole day with no problems... Not yet, anyways...

Do you think it's hardware related? It would be difficult for me to have this Mac serviced because I live in Japan... My Japanese isn't good enough yet to describe the problem... I can't call 800 numbers in the States either... I could take it back to the store, but I'm not sure how that works here. Does this seem to be hardware related? Software? Firmware?

Can somebody please help? This is enough to make a switcher switch!
     
Thinine
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Mar 5, 2003, 10:08 PM
 
First, did you install any of the memory yourself? If so, you might want to try the machine without it in there for a while and see if stability improves.

Second, what firmaware did you update? I don't know of any updates for any recent machines.

Other than that, I would at least try the tech support. Who knows, you might get someone who speaks English.
     
Mac Zealot
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Mar 5, 2003, 10:48 PM
 
"Thank you for using the applecare service and support line! Where you can find......."

1-800-275-2273.

Good luck!
In a realm beyond site, the sky shines gold, not blue, there the Triforce's might makes mortal dreams come true.
     
AGE
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Mar 5, 2003, 11:02 PM
 
Bad ram it sounds like, but if u get system hangs its a bad ATA conroller.
     
geekwagon
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Mar 5, 2003, 11:07 PM
 
I had the exact same problems on mine (apps unexpectedly quiting 20 times a day, about 4-5 kernel panics per day...) on my fw800 1.25 too. Mine turned out to be RAM.

I replaced the RAM that I had with stuff from crucial and have not had a single kernel panic since. The RAM that was in there is now working fine in PC's that I have around, so I think these things are just way picky. I had problems with Kingston and some generic no-name stuff. Had good luck with Crucial and Corsair.
     
whokilledkaji  (op)
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Mar 5, 2003, 11:34 PM
 
Ok! I'll have my Mom send over some Crucial RAM... Maybe that's the ticket... If she sends me a Gig and it turns out that my other RAM is fine, then at least I'll have 2GB! That way it's not a waste...

I can't call 800 numbers in the states... No Apple support for me!

Thanks guys!

-Jeff
     
whokilledkaji  (op)
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Mar 5, 2003, 11:47 PM
 
Just to be sure... They don't list it on Crucial specifically...

I should get DDR PC2700 for the Dual 1.25 Firewire 800, right?

Here is the part number:
CT259533

Is that right, guys?
     
Kerry
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Mar 5, 2003, 11:48 PM
 
I have the same machine. It came with OS 10.2.3 I knew some folks were having issues with 10.2.4 so I didn't do the update. But why would you have to update the firmware on a brand new machine? What brought you to that decision? Where did you see/read it was needed? Where did you find it? Just curious.

I'm am running primarily Pro-Tools 6.0. Digidesign said 10.2.3 was okay so I left it alone. I also installed Photoshop7, Indesign2, GoLive 6.01, canon scanner and Hp printer. Everything was running flawlessly for days until... I put in the third 256 ram chip owed to me by the Apple dealer. It was delayed so it came after that fact. I don't know what the OEM/256 ram is but the second 256 was PNY. The third was Samsung and I noticed the card was slightly short but still said DDR/2700/333 so I figured it should work...WRONG! The CPU would even start... nothing. I open the case took out the ram and bingo, back in business. He ordered another ram card. Should be tomorrow.

I'd say Ram? Or firmware is your problem.
     
Kenneth
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Mar 6, 2003, 12:01 AM
 
Same stock 1.25Ghz here.. s/n xx304xxxx
No problem with the Micron RAM I added before my first boot.. didn't apply the firmware. 10.2.4 works flawlessly here.

Using 2 512MB RAM here (CT259533).
     
whokilledkaji  (op)
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Mar 6, 2003, 12:06 AM
 
Cool... I just ordered the Ram!

Anyways, the Software Update program in Preferences told me about the firmware update... Your's didn't?
     
Kenneth
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Mar 6, 2003, 06:42 AM
 
Originally posted by whokilledkaji:
Anyways, the Software Update program in Preferences told me about the firmware update... Your's didn't?
I did receive the firmware notification on the SoftwareUpdate.

The Power Mac G4 Firmware Update 4.4.8 will run only on Power Mac G4 computers with mirrored drive doors. The Power Mac G4 Firmware Update 4.4.8 improves fan control behavior and reduces high speed fan cycling when running in Mac OS 9.

To complete the installation, you must follow the instructions that are presented after you exit Software Update. The updater will remain in your Utilities folder after you are finished. To obtain a Mac OS 9 version of the updater, run Software Update while booted in Mac OS 9.

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=120171
Since I don't use Mac OS 9 and these new PowerMac won't boot to Mac OS 9, I'm wondering what's the purpose or improvement on my machine. Second, 10.2.4 runs fine without the newer firmware.

Hope your RAM works and solve your problem.
     
Kerry
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Mar 6, 2003, 09:32 AM
 
The Power Mac G4 Firmware Update 4.4.8 will run only on Power Mac G4 computers with mirrored drive doors. The Power Mac G4 Firmware Update 4.4.8 improves fan control behavior and reduces high speed fan cycling when running in Mac OS 9.

Notice it says for OS9. From what I gathered these FW800 machines won't boot OS9. These are not dual boot machines so I'm betting the firmware screwed things up for you.
     
macbarry
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Mar 6, 2003, 02:06 PM
 
Originally posted by Kerry:
Notice it says for OS9. From what I gathered these FW800 machines won't boot OS9. These are not dual boot machines so I'm betting the firmware screwed things up for you. [/B]
I doubt this as I have a band new FW 800, 1.25 dual and allowed both the firmware and 10.2.4 updates to proceed. My Mac runs fine. These machines may not boot with OS 9 but they still employ OS9 emmulation with classic...

Somebody earlier asked about the machine's serial number - has that been posted? I had to wait on my new machine for several weeks while Apple corrected a MoBo problem in the xx304xx series - mine is a xx308xx series. Perhaps this is the issue? If i were you I'd suck up the bucks call someone at Apple then have them call you back in Japan...
     
geekwagon
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Mar 6, 2003, 03:13 PM
 
Originally posted by Kerry:
The Power Mac G4 Firmware Update 4.4.8 will run only on Power Mac G4 computers with mirrored drive doors. The Power Mac G4 Firmware Update 4.4.8 improves fan control behavior and reduces high speed fan cycling when running in Mac OS 9.

Notice it says for OS9. From what I gathered these FW800 machines won't boot OS9. These are not dual boot machines so I'm betting the firmware screwed things up for you.
What happens is that software update downloads the firmware update for you as it apparently can't tell the difference between the old and new MDD machines. Then, when you reboot, the firmware installer realizes that it is older than what you have and doesn't install. So, no worries there.
     
JB72
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Mar 6, 2003, 03:20 PM
 
Originally posted by geekwagon:
I replaced the RAM that I had with stuff from crucial and have not had a single kernel panic since. The RAM that was in there is now working fine in PC's that I have around, so I think these things are just way picky.
I think you're right. I just replaced some Corsair XMS with Crucial in my MDD and haven't had a kp yet in a couple days. Before it would go down at least once a day. I'm pretty confident the XMS mem will work fine in a PC.
     
lordwizard
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Mar 6, 2003, 04:40 PM
 
I got my new dual 1.25 for a week now and everything is perfectly running...
I bought 512mb from crucial and install it even before pluggin the mac...

but i stick with 10.2.3 and i never accept the firmware 4.4.8 cause my stock firmware is higher (mine is 4.5.7f1) and that i read some forums telling not to do it before receiving my mac...

sorry for you with all those trouble, but even on a mac you should be aware of some bugs running around...
An Apple a day... !!

PM Dual 1.25 MDD FW800/ 768Mb / 80Go
9000 Pro / 20" Cinema Display/ "ice" iBook / iPod
     
dfiler
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Mar 6, 2003, 05:23 PM
 
Originally posted by whokilledkaji:
I totally removed everything associated with iPhoto and now the system seems stable enough... It's been on for a whole day with no problems... Not yet, anyways...
...
Does this seem to be hardware related? Software? Firmware?
First of all... sit tight and don't stress too bad, we'll have this figured out in no time.

There are two likely causes for your trouble. These problems sound indicative of bad hardware. If possible, swap RAM with a computer you know to be functional. You might also want to check if the firmware got downgraded during your OS upgrade. Any new G4 owners want to chime in on this? Reinstalling a previous OS doesn't generally downgrade to the firmware that shipped at the same time as the OS.

Finally, if things go wrong with OS X in the future, be advised that removing applications will not solve the problem. While your computer may have seemed more stable after removing iPhoto, this is [b]highly improbable[b]. Applications are completely ignored except while running. You don't need to worry about extension conflicts like in OS 9 or dll and registry problems like in windows. OS X does have kernel extensions but problems with these are rare and generally not user fixable other than by reinstalling OS X.
     
JB72
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Mar 6, 2003, 07:06 PM
 
Originally posted by lordwizard:
I got my new dual 1.25 for a week now and everything is perfectly running...
I bought 512mb from crucial and install it even before pluggin the mac...

but i stick with 10.2.3 and i never accept the firmware 4.4.8 cause my stock firmware is higher (mine is 4.5.7f1) and that i read some forums telling not to do it before receiving my mac...
Well I'm sold on Crucial memory now I can tell you that. If things continue well for me now I'm going to reward my Crucial chip with a stylish jacket. Gotta keep those guys happy. I'll finally start to be satisfied with this machine once I get the power supply exchange in. Hopefully we'll see a nice new general firmware release in the future too (beyond 4.5.7)
     
superfula
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Mar 6, 2003, 09:01 PM
 
Originally posted by geekwagon:
What happens is that software update downloads the firmware update for you as it apparently can't tell the difference between the old and new MDD machines. Then, when you reboot, the firmware installer realizes that it is older than what you have and doesn't install. So, no worries there.
I have a 1.25 mdd/800. I applied the firmware patch (as software update prompted). Upon reboot, A notice came up saying that my firmware had indeed been updated to the newest version.
     
BurpetheadX
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Mar 6, 2003, 09:29 PM
 
When you get that RAM I suggest re-initializing and installing OS 9/OS X from a real retail installation CD. I don't know about anyone else, But the OS 9 that would come with your new mac would always suck and be real crash-prone, and installing a fresh copy off a retail CD always fixed it..anyone else do that?
     
JB72
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Mar 6, 2003, 10:10 PM
 
Originally posted by BurpetheadX:
I don't know about anyone else, But the OS 9 that would come with your new mac would always suck and be real crash-prone, and installing a fresh copy off a retail CD always fixed it..anyone else do that?
I'm an OS9-free-user. I do have a copy on a small FW drive just for emergencies though.
     
Kenneth
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Mar 7, 2003, 12:03 AM
 
I just ran the SoftwareUpdate.. it seens Apple removed the Firmware update 4.4.8 off the current MDD...it gave me Keynote, iMovie, and iPod updaters.

I second that, most of the time I re-install the OS and apps from scratch when I bought a new Mac.
     
Simon
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Mar 7, 2003, 05:46 AM
 
Originally posted by BurpetheadX:
But the OS 9 that would come with your new mac would always suck and be real crash-prone, and installing a fresh copy off a retail CD always fixed it..anyone else do that?
I'll second that even though I don't have OS 9 or Classic on my machine anymore. Why should I? My new Mac doesn't boot in 9 anyway.

I think now that Apple has these restore DVDs shipping with the new Macs it's especially easy to wipe the disk of your new Mac and install a fresh copy only of those apps you really need/want. Actually, I hate the restore thing, because I don't really know what it's installing and where, but the single DVD with all the images is cool.

I booted my new Mac from its HD when I brought it home just to see if I installed the RAM properly and then I re-booted from CD, re-partitioned my disk, installed Jaguar and some stuff I really wanted (like the DevTools or AppleWorks). The rest I don't care about.

To see what stuff other than Jag you could install go to the terminal and cd to the DVD, something like

% cd /Volumes/Restore\ DVD/

go to the (hidden) disk images

% cd .images/

check what's there

% ls -l

and finally open the disk images in the Finder to copy the stuff to your HD

% open DevTools.dmg


It is very easy, pretty fast and gives you maximum flexibility. I love the way Apple solved this. The only thing I don't get is why they had to hide the disk images from the Joe Sixpack users. Telling them to open a terminal and type cryptic stuff won't make their life any easier.
     
tiborg
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Mar 7, 2003, 09:21 AM
 
Apple provides English support in Japan. Call the support line at 0070-800-27753-1. Wait while the automated answering service gives you its message, at the end it will tell you what button to push to get an English speaking operator.
     
beldar3000
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Mar 7, 2003, 01:17 PM
 
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Kerry:
But why would you have to update the firmware on a brand new machine? What brought you to that decision? Where did you see/read it was needed? Where did you find it?

I got the same machine a week ago (finally). As soon as I went through the set-up, Software Update launched and found a firmware update along with an update to 10.2.4 (it came with 10.2.3 preloaded). My machine is a ##308##, BTW. Extra Gig of memory from OWC. Works great.
     
   
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