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GATTACA · May 15, 2006, 09:02 PM

Hello.

I do a lot of coding in unix as part of my research (job: graduate student). I was wondering if I should invest in a refurbished Dual-core G5 now or wait for the new Intel Mac workstations?
Currently the Dual-G5s come with every feature I like: Unix-like OS, 64-bit, potentially 16GB DDR2 RAM, >1Ghz processors.

The G5 have been around for a while now and I think Apple has worked out the bugs in them.

The only potential downside I see is that it's a waste of money. Many of my computer-savy colleagues tell me that it's a 'dead architecture', and that within a year it will no longer be supported.

Is it worth waiting 2 years for the Mac-intels or will a G5 serve me well for the next 4-5 years? (BTW: I say 2 years because I want to wait to make sure the bugs get ironed out.)

Most of my work can be broken down as follows:
Web surfing: 30%
Writing papers in MS Word: 20%
Writing perl scripts or C++ in vi: 30%
Database queries in SQL Server: 10%
Misc: 10%

Thanks in advance for any advice you can give.

Books · May 15, 2006, 10:44 PM

Your colleagues are horribly wrong..I hope. They won't stop support only a year after. A huge percentage of their users have PPC so...I'd assume at least 4-5 years.

If you do wait a little longer, yes you will get a 1st gen Intel-PowerMac. This will most definately be faster than the PowerMac G5. but might have some issues.

From what you are doing, it doesn't sound like you need super speed (I dont program, so I might be mistaken).

If you get the PowerMac G5: It's available now, it is fast, no bugs, will need a replacement 5 years down the line.

If you get a Intel-PowerMac: It's faster, comes out soon, might have slight bugs, will probably need a replacement 5 years down the line.

So both do the same for your specific situation... The only thing really left is $$$$.

That's what I think at least, someone tell me If I'm wrong please.

Big Mac · May 16, 2006, 01:20 AM

Books offers good advice. I say that if you care about running Windows, get a Mactel. Otherwise, if you need a Mac now, get one.

GATTACA · May 16, 2006, 08:59 AM

Thanks for the advice!

It's not so much need as oppertunity.

I currently use a power book and at school our lab uses linux. I use a winblows box at home, but I've never liked it. I thought the current price of refurbed Dual G5's are pretty good and so they would make a great replacement for my home winblows machine.

The thing is I'm just worried about this 'dead-architecture' business. I'm worried that by next year it will be very hard to find software that runs on a G5 since it will all be going to the MacTels.

Neo.cmg · May 16, 2006, 12:47 PM

I just sold my 15" 1.67Ghz G4 PowerBook this last weekend. I want a desktop machine, and I've convinced myself that I will wait out the summer for an Intel-based desktop. I can't imagine too many issues arising, as Apple seems to be using more and more standard components in their hardware, and a desktop system shouldn't be too complicated to put together compared to a 1" thick laptop.

They have to be up next on Apple's agenda of hardware upgrades now that their pro and consumer laptops have been revised as well as their consumer desktop systems. I am hoping they revise their cases for the PowerMacs as well. While they look sharp, they really are overly large and heavy--not to mention an acoustical nightmare for propagating noise.

For the tasks you mention, a PowerMac really is overkill unless that 10% Misc is actually more like 30% and includes games...

Boochie · May 16, 2006, 02:35 PM

The vast majority of the installed base of Apple machines is based on PowerPC right now. Presently Apple is encouraging the creation of "universal binaries" that run natively on both PowerPC and Intel machines. It's going to be a while before the Intel machines are so pervasive that you can't get your hands on PPC software. So I wouldn't worry too much about that consideration in and of itself. Look at Apple's track record -- even as they've embraced new technologies (68K->PPC, OS9->OSX), they've provided compatibility for older systems through emulation layers, "Classic", and so on.

On the other hand, if you drop ~$1500 on a PPC box now and in six months you can get a faster machine for the same or slightly higher price based on the Intel architecture, will you kick yourself?

Originally Posted by GATTACA

Thanks for the advice!

It's not so much need as oppertunity.

I currently use a power book and at school our lab uses linux. I use a winblows box at home, but I've never liked it. I thought the current price of refurbed Dual G5's are pretty good and so they would make a great replacement for my home winblows machine.

The thing is I'm just worried about this 'dead-architecture' business. I'm worried that by next year it will be very hard to find software that runs on a G5 since it will all be going to the MacTels.

GATTACA · May 16, 2006, 10:19 PM

A valid point Boochie.

TiDual · May 18, 2006, 08:39 AM

Do you really need a tower?

Why not go iMac (the Intel iMacs are a dream to use ... that's my home machine) or even the mini. Both would easily handle what you're doing. Then if you really like the new towers, you can flip the iMac or mini for a minimal loss on ebay (since the Intel macs won't depreciate so fast), and upgrade.

Don't get me wrong. I've got nine dual/quad G5 towers in my lab, and they are fantastic machines ... but if you're just getting into Macs now, it seems silly to start with the old platform (though I agree, it'll be supported for some time).

BTW, I wouldn't anticipate many problems with the upcoming MacIntel towers. Intel is an experience motherboard developer, and Apple now has good experience using Intel hardware in ALL it's other machines, plus, the tower presents the fewest design challenges (e.g. size & cooling). If the new towers (I'm guessing Sept. at the *latest*, since I can't see much reason for a long delay now) are well-spec'd I wouldn't hesitate to get one.

rhashem · May 18, 2006, 01:04 PM

Originally Posted by GATTACA

I do a lot of coding in unix as part of my research (job: graduate student). I was wondering if I should invest in a refurbished Dual-core G5 now or wait for the new Intel Mac workstations? Currently the Dual-G5s come with every feature I like: Unix-like OS, 64-bit, potentially 16GB DDR2 RAM, >1Ghz processors.

I hate to say it, but if you don't wait for the new Intel Mac Pros, you might be dissapointed. They are going to be tremendously faster than the G5 PowerMacs for integer tasks like compling, or databases. The DC G5 isn't a slow machine at compiling, not by any means (I have one), but you're going to get the compile performance of an Opteron machine that costs half as much as the PowerMac. The new Core Duos absolutely scream with GCC, and the new Core 2 is looking to be faster still.

On top of all that, I doubt you're going to see many first-gen issues with the PowerMacs. You have to consider that there isn't a lot in these machines that Apple could screw up. It's going to have an Intel motherboard with an Intel CPU and an ATI or NVIDIA graphics card. It's not like the Macbook Pro, where they could screw up the screen or the case cooling or the hinges. Moreover, Apple's Core Duo desktops all seem to be trouble-free (I haven't heard any complaints about the Core Duo iMacs or the Mac Minis, and they've been out awhile), so I don't think there is any reason to worry.

jesrae · May 19, 2006, 07:38 AM

I have a similar question, but comparing iMac to PowerMac G5 Duo Core.

masugu · May 19, 2006, 04:40 PM

Originally Posted by rhashem

I hate to say it, but if you don't wait for the new Intel Mac Pros, you might be dissapointed. They are going to be tremendously faster than the G5 PowerMacs for integer tasks like compling, or databases. The DC G5 isn't a slow machine at compiling, not by any means (I have one), but you're going to get the compile performance of an Opteron machine that costs half as much as the PowerMac. The new Core Duos absolutely scream with GCC, and the new Core 2 is looking to be faster still.

On top of all that, I doubt you're going to see many first-gen issues with the PowerMacs. You have to consider that there isn't a lot in these machines that Apple could screw up. It's going to have an Intel motherboard with an Intel CPU and an ATI or NVIDIA graphics card. It's not like the Macbook Pro, where they could screw up the screen or the case cooling or the hinges. Moreover, Apple's Core Duo desktops all seem to be trouble-free (I haven't heard any complaints about the Core Duo iMacs or the Mac Minis, and they've been out awhile), so I don't think there is any reason to worry.

However....there could be issues if Apple goes with some exotic new small form-factor desktop. Wouldn't that be cool though?

Todd Madson · May 19, 2006, 05:13 PM

I don't see them doing it - remember these are supposed to be pro machines so
there will be space for large ram and disk arrays.

The last several iterations have all been tower form factor. So I would expect to
see that continue unless they can find a way to give it tower expandability in a
different form.

Todd Madson · May 19, 2006, 05:15 PM

And: a friend just bought a DC2.0 two days ago - if you need the capability now it
will work fine and continue to work fine tomorrow.

Support will be 4-5 years I'm told, by then you'll want to upgrade anyway.

I don't regret I bought a DP 2.5 last summer even though I knew Intel was
coming - I needed it THEN and my G4 was having problems anyway - I could
not continue with my then-setup and I needed the power right then.

If you can afford to wait, well, it's worth a shot.

I'm thinking that a G5 Quad would be a nice machine for a lower price once
the Intel towers are out.

MindFad · May 19, 2006, 06:54 PM

I'm waiting for quad Intels.

And Adobe.

k2director · May 21, 2006, 09:33 PM

I would wait. I think the Intel Mac Towers will be appreciably faster, and they should be announced, if not shipping, in 3 months. It's not a long time to wait.

cgc · May 21, 2006, 11:09 PM

Originally Posted by GATTACA

Thanks for the advice!

It's not so much need as oppertunity.

I currently use a power book and at school our lab uses linux. I use a winblows box at home, but I've never liked it. ...

Why don't you format the Windoze machine and load a free Linux distribution (e.g. Ubuntu) on it?

RevEvs · May 22, 2006, 01:41 PM

Originally Posted by cgc

Why don't you format the Windoze machine and load a free Linux distribution (e.g. Ubuntu) on it?

Not theres a new version of Ubuntu out soon - 6.06, its out June 1st. Its very nice. much nicer than windows.

bbales · May 23, 2006, 09:50 AM

Originally Posted by k2director

I would wait. I think the Intel Mac Towers will be appreciably faster, and they should be announced, if not shipping, in 3 months. It's not a long time to wait.

I'm waiting. I keep my machines a long time (currently working on a 2000 G4), so figure getting the newer machines is worth it. Now, if I had to have a machine right away -- say, something happened to my current setup -- then I wouldn't feel bad about getting a G5, either.

cgc · May 23, 2006, 09:58 AM

Originally Posted by bbales

I'm waiting. I keep my machines a long time (currently working on a 2000 G4), so figure getting the newer machines is worth it. Now, if I had to have a machine right away -- say, something happened to my current setup -- then I wouldn't feel bad about getting a G5, either.

Yeah, I'm still using my 400MHz G4 Tower (2000 model). Gonna get Intel Tower ASAP.

gudrummer · May 23, 2006, 04:59 PM

I'm buying a G5 Quad used when the Intel towers come out,when they show me the second or third revision of the new towers i'll buy one.

bbales · May 24, 2006, 09:23 AM

Originally Posted by cgc

Yeah, I'm still using my 400MHz G4 Tower (2000 model). Gonna get Intel Tower ASAP.

That's my machine! I did upgrade the processor 2 or so years ago, though -- up to 933 MZ. That's made a big difference. And there are still times it's pretty slow...

cgc · May 24, 2006, 11:18 AM

Originally Posted by bbales

That's my machine! I did upgrade the processor 2 or so years ago, though -- up to 933 MZ. That's made a big difference. And there are still times it's pretty slow...

I upgraded to 1GHz G4 and Radeon 8500. Also upped memory to 1GB, replaced HDD, added CDRW-DVD, Zip 250 drive (long time ago), and added USB 2.0. Now my FrankenMac needs replacing, but it's held up well and has never broken or had any problems. THAT's a huge selling point...reliability.

spittingangels · May 27, 2006, 04:11 PM

Honestly, knowing Apple historically, if you by ANY Mac now, you will have a reivsion come out in 6-8 months, and you will not be "new" anymore. It's part of buying a Mac.

That said, if you are coding and doing research in UNIX, you honestly don't need a PowerMac G5. An iMac or even a MacBook would be more than enough for you.

macintologist · May 27, 2006, 10:47 PM

You should get an intel iMac

trevorM · May 27, 2006, 11:44 PM

Originally Posted by ChrisTCC

It's part of buying a Mac.

It's really part of buying any computer or any piece of technology for that matter. You buy it, its the best. You take it out of the box and already something better is out or around the corner.

We all just love it don't we?

greenamp · May 29, 2006, 01:58 AM

Bugginess is going to depend mostly on whether or not Apple completely redesigns the Intel Power Macs or if they just stick new x86 guts in the current ones. If they just change the engine in the current ones then I'd expect them to be mostly problem free.

Regardless of the company, completely new product lines are always subject to kinks and wrinkles for a bit during the beginning of it's life span. Remember the Rev.A G5 PowerMacs when they first came out? Yikes.

My advice to the OP is wait. The "get the Mac you need now" strategy is only viable when you aren't aware of new product dates. But in this case, it's pretty much a given that new Intel PMs will be debuted in August.

TiDual · May 29, 2006, 03:19 AM

Originally Posted by greenamp

...
Regardless of the company, completely new product lines are always subject to kinks and wrinkles for a bit during the beginning of it's life span. Remember the Rev.A G5 PowerMacs when they first came out? Yikes.
...

Two things:
(1) the move to G5s involved a completely new CPU and motherboard (and case) ... the move to Intel is less complex, since (a) Intel has lots of experience in motherboard design, and (b) Apple now has three product lines using Intel CPUs.
(2) I have 9 G5 powermacs in my lab, including the Rev. A dual 2.0 G5, and that machine was the most reliable and quietest of the bunch (I've had a dual 2.5 and a dual 2.7 melt down).

I'm not saying there won't be a risk in getting a Rev. A Mac Pro ... but I think these boards tend to skew perceptions the problems. People like to complain :-) ...

greenamp · May 29, 2006, 10:29 AM

Originally Posted by TiDual

Two things:
(1) the move to G5s involved a completely new CPU and motherboard (and case) ... the move to Intel is less complex, since (a) Intel has lots of experience in motherboard design, and (b) Apple now has three product lines using Intel CPUs.
(2) I have 9 G5 powermacs in my lab, including the Rev. A dual 2.0 G5, and that machine was the most reliable and quietest of the bunch (I've had a dual 2.5 and a dual 2.7 melt down).

I'm not saying there won't be a risk in getting a Rev. A Mac Pro ... but I think these boards tend to skew perceptions the problems. People like to complain :-) ...

The Rev.A PMs did in fact have issues that plagued lots of people, including myself.

People here do complain about almost everything, I agree ( MacBook forums ). My point was however, that problems with 100% new product lines are not singular to any one company, it happens to them all.

spittingangels · May 30, 2006, 10:27 AM

I think the real shame would be if these Macs were released and there was a lack of Pro apps to go with them that are Intel native, ie: Photoshop, Illustrator, Maya, etc. I think that that, more than a few hardware bugs, would impact buying decisions.

dimmer · May 30, 2006, 08:34 PM

Pro apps like Final Cut Pro Studio, DVD Studio Pro, Shake, Aperture, Logic? I don't think you'll have to wait. Photoshop and Illustrator will come in CS3 (and probably be 20 to 25% faster, as they know multiple CPU's like err, what's one of those again?), Maya sooner, Xpress sooner. Illustrator ain't a CPU hog, it's a thought hog, god I wish more people could get that.