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besson3c · Mar 23, 2009, 05:28 PM

Again stupendousman: your arguments would be infinitely better if you'd offer a genuine concession now and then and tempered your onslaught of your anti-Democratic religion a little. You make it seem that a man that has been elected president to the US has no redeeming qualities whatsoever.

I think Bush had some redeeming qualities. I think he was generally affable, cared about the country, and showed great leadership right after 9/11. I disagreed with him on most policy related issues, and that's fine, you can disagree with Obama on most policy issues too, but you would also be best served to issue credit where credit is due. It is clear that Obama's speaking ability is his forte. Numerous Republicans have acknowledged this as well, even tried to turn the tables on him based on this notion. If I were you I would cut out all of the teleprompter nonsense and focus your arguments where they will gain more traction.

ebuddy · Mar 25, 2009, 07:40 AM

Originally Posted by besson3c

If I were you I would cut out all of the teleprompter nonsense and focus your arguments where they will gain more traction.

Why would you want people to do this besson3c? Seriously. One of the most refreshing prospects of an Obama Presidency was the notion of skilled oratorship. As it turns out he's not as skilled an orator as he is a crafty reader. Is this a metaphor for perhaps other aspects of this Presidency that seem less than authentic? I'm guessing in the eyes of those quick to remind others that Obama is not as skilled an orator as once thought, it is. Just as it is important for supporters of Obama to defend or silence this criticism.

Were there not threads of this nature regarding Bush and were you not a contributor to them? Honestly?

SpaceMonkey · Mar 25, 2009, 09:17 AM

Originally Posted by ebuddy

Why would you want people to do this besson3c? Seriously. One of the most refreshing prospects of an Obama Presidency was the notion of skilled oratorship. As it turns out he's not as skilled an orator as he is a crafty reader. Is this a metaphor for perhaps other aspects of this Presidency that seem less than authentic? I'm guessing in the eyes of those quick to remind others that Obama is not as skilled an orator as once thought, it is. Just as it is important for supporters of Obama to defend or silence this criticism.

It seems to me that the critics in this thread are simply pointing to the fact that Obama uses a teleprompter. I haven't seen any evidence that Obama's oration skills are lacking without it. Admittedly, U.S. presidents of any party speak very little without prepared remarks, for PR purposes. But I guess I'll just have to take your word for it...

Bush was so amusing because he managed to stay idiotic things with some regularity even with the benefit of prepared remarks. Thus he was neither a skilled orator nor a crafty reader.

besson3c · Mar 25, 2009, 09:48 AM

Originally Posted by ebuddy

Why would you want people to do this besson3c? Seriously. One of the most refreshing prospects of an Obama Presidency was the notion of skilled oratorship. As it turns out he's not as skilled an orator as he is a crafty reader. Is this a metaphor for perhaps other aspects of this Presidency that seem less than authentic? I'm guessing in the eyes of those quick to remind others that Obama is not as skilled an orator as once thought, it is. Just as it is important for supporters of Obama to defend or silence this criticism.

Were there not threads of this nature regarding Bush and were you not a contributor to them? Honestly?

I've never thought that Bush was a skilled orator, but granted I was just starting to get interested in politics as his term started.

I have not seen this evidence that you speak of that he is not a skilled orator, honestly, and stand by my belief that on the whole he is. I'm sure you can find some flubbing, as you could find some brilliance, hence my qualification of "on the whole".

Doofy · Mar 25, 2009, 10:13 AM

There's nowt wrong with Barry's oration skills. It's his brain that's broken, not his mouth.

Jawbone54 · Mar 25, 2009, 11:00 AM

Obama has a much better countenance and expression than Bush ever had, but his diction is so choppy that it annoys me 100x more to listen to him talk (without the teleprompter).

Macrobat · 11:37 AM

I have not seen this evidence that you speak of that he is not a skilled orator, honestly, and stand by my belief that on the whole he is

Keep doing that:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDJSVPAx8xc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpM_Pv430Qg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqcnjxYiG7M

Now, this last one, if G.W. Bush had ever done this one, it would be "proof positive" that the man was a moron.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpGH02DtIws

On the campaign trail, he once said in a Memorial Day appearance that he saw dead people:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sh6Gx1KrvTw

The man ADMITS that he uses a teleprompter at the White House press briefings.

This very place spent a multi-page thread going on and on about the supposed device hidden under Bush's suit jacket in one of the Bush-Kerry debates, yet is willing to forgive the admitted FACT that Obama uses a very public device that tells him what to say - in other words, whatever whoever types into the device TELLS him to say.

In other words - they're not even HIS answers. He's a puppet. For God's sake, he thanked HIMSELF at the White House Saint Patrick's Day Dinner simply because that's what was on the teleprompter!

besson3c · Mar 25, 2009, 12:05 PM

Macrobat: gaffes and flubs, great, I'm not surprised that these have occurred at all over the course of years and countless speaking events, but you're missing my point. On the *whole* he is fine (and this includes during non-prepared statements such as interviews and debates where a teleprompter wouldn't help him), and at times brilliant. Bush at his best, in my opinion, was a pretty mediocre speaker. If you disagree with that, then I suppose that's where the disconnect lies - no common frame of reference or baseline?

Chongo · Mar 25, 2009, 12:06 PM

I watched a bit of the press conference last night and was surprised to see there was no teleprompter at the podium. I then noticed when the camera panned to the reporters there were two large screen televisions at the back of the room with DTB's remarks scrolling on them.

Macrobat · Mar 25, 2009, 12:06 PM

That would be your opinion. There has been absolutely no unscripted brilliance from this man, just gaffes, uhs and downright petulance.

Again, it has already been CONFIRMED by the Administration that he uses the teleprompter EVERYWHERE. Not sure where you think he wouldn't help him - considering the room full of people supplying his answers THROUGH the teleprompter.

My God, he ADMITS he uses the teleprompter at the White House Pressers! WHO is actually answering the questions?

Every time he IS off teleprompter, he sticks his foot directly down his throat.

besson3c · Mar 25, 2009, 12:08 PM

Originally Posted by Macrobat

That would be your opinion. There has been absolutely no unscripted brilliance from this man, just gaffes, uhs and downright petulance.

Okay, so who would you consider a brilliant speaker in our generation?

Macrobat · Mar 25, 2009, 12:11 PM

John F. Kennedy, Ronald Reagan come immediately to mind.

Why necessarily limit it to "our generation" when the attempted myth-builders would have us believe Obama is the greatest orator since the FIRST coming of Christ (since he is supposedly the second).

But just let Bush say "nukular" and he's a chimpanzee.

Here's a hint - about a quarter of Americans mispronounce that word.

SpaceMonkey · Mar 25, 2009, 12:14 PM

Originally Posted by Macrobat

That would be your opinion. There has been absolutely no unscripted brilliance from this man, just gaffes, uhs and downright petulance.

Again, it has already been CONFIRMED by the Administration that he uses the teleprompter EVERYWHERE. Not sure where you think he wouldn't help him - considering the room full of people supplying his answers THROUGH the teleprompter.

My God, he ADMITS he uses the teleprompter at the White House Pressers! WHO is actually answering the questions?

There is nothing new about this in modern presidential history. I don't know why you're SHOCKED. Color me UNSURPRISED. Is he reading off a prompter during the Q&A portion, or is it just during his opening remarks? Do you actually know? Does anyone actually care if he has notes available?

Macrobat · Mar 25, 2009, 12:16 PM

Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey

There is nothing new about this in modern presidential history. I don't know why you're SHOCKED. Color me UNSURPRISED.

Please point out where I said I was shocked.

Point is the double standard. Obama freely ADMITS someone else is supplying his answers, and he's a great orator and that is perfectly fine with people such as yourself defending the practice.

You know the same defenders who went into piranha-esque feeding frenzy over a supposed device secreted under Bush's jacket.

besson3c · Mar 25, 2009, 12:18 PM

It sounds to me like you simply feel that his oratorical skills are overrated, which is in keeping with your feelings about him as a whole.

I don't really want to get into "debating" this with you (I know, I'm foolish to even be here in this vomitorium, let alone this thread), but my original point that I set out to make was similar to what Doofy has said. You can think that Obama is lacking as a politician in every conceivable way, but I think it's difficult to make the argument that his oratorical skills are poor, especially in comparison to anybody else living today. There are much stronger arguments to make then the whole teleprompter shtick.

besson3c · Mar 25, 2009, 12:19 PM

Originally Posted by Macrobat

Please point out where I said I was shocked.

Point is the double standard. Obama freely ADMITS someone else is supplying his answers, and he's a great orator and that is perfectly fine with people such as yourself defending the practice.

You know the same defenders who went into piranha-esque feeding frenzy over a supposed device secreted under Bush's jacket.

Supplying his answers? How is the teleprompter supposed to supply his answers without knowing in advance what the question is going to be?

It's pretty simple guys, teleprompters are just modern day cue cards for prepared speeches.

SpaceMonkey · Mar 25, 2009, 12:23 PM

Originally Posted by Macrobat

Please point out where I said I was shocked.

Point is the double standard. Obama freely ADMITS someone else is supplying his answers, and he's a great orator and that is perfectly fine with people such as yourself defending the practice.

You know the same defenders who went into piranha-esque feeding frenzy over a supposed device secreted under Bush's jacket.

Sorry, I assumed some amount of minor hysteria on your part from the abundance of CAPITALIZATION.

There's a clear difference between reading from text during prepared remarks and receiving a real-time audio directions during a Q&A or debate format (if you in fact believe that Bush had some kind of device, which I do not, so I don't particularly want to debate this point with you). Again, as I mentioned earlier, what made Bush so amusing was that he managed to flub perfectly good prepared remarks even when he should have had the benefit of prepared notes.

Macrobat · Mar 25, 2009, 12:25 PM

Originally Posted by besson3c

Supplying his answers? How is the teleprompter supposed to supply his answers without knowing in advance what the question is going to be?

It's pretty simple guys, teleprompters are just modern day cue cards for prepared speeches.

very simple, the same way HE is supposed to answer the questions. I take it you are unfamilar with the FACT that a teleprompter is the exact same as your computer screen, whoever is operating the thing simply types the answer and Obama reads it.

Teleprompters are FAR from mere "cue cards" they are NOT simply pre-loaded with canned speeches.

http://www.drs-digitrax.com/sstudioprompter.htm

Macrobat · Mar 25, 2009, 12:28 PM

Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey

Sorry, I assumed some amount of minor hysteria on your part from the abundance of CAPITALIZATION.

There's a clear difference between reading from text during prepared remarks and receiving a real-time audio directions during a Q&A or debate format (if you in fact believe that Bush had some kind of device, which I do not, so I don't particularly want to debate this point with you). Again, as I mentioned earlier, what made Bush so amusing was that he managed to flub perfectly good prepared remarks even when he should have had the benefit of prepared notes.

You mean sort of like the way Obama started reading the previous speaker's speech right off the teleprompter and thanked himself at the St. Patty's Day Dinner?

Proof positive he simply reads what he sees.

besson3c · Mar 25, 2009, 12:30 PM

Ahhh, so you buy into the notion that Obama is a puppet that is dependent on somebody else to feed him lines (despite the fact that he, in fact, writes many of his own speeches even according to William Saffire, who was Nixon's speechwriter and a well known Republican?) Okay, I guess this is where this conversation ends then!

SpaceMonkey · Mar 25, 2009, 12:33 PM

Originally Posted by Macrobat

You mean sort of like the way Obama started reading the previous speaker's speech right off the teleprompter and thanked himself at the St. Patty's Day Dinner?

I suppose!

besson3c · Mar 25, 2009, 12:37 PM

It's funny that some of you same guys go on about Obama not being bipartisan when you fail to demonstrate any willingness whatsoever to give up any ground and meet in the middle on what seems plainly evident to many. Like I said, Obama is many things, but he is a good speaker on the whole regardless of whether you like the content of his speeches. I hardly have to go out on a limb to say this.

hyteckit · Mar 25, 2009, 12:45 PM

John McCain kicks @ss in townhall style debates.

Obama kicks John McCain's @ss in the townhall style Presidential debates.

Obama sucks, and needs a telepromter.

So does that make most Republicans idiot bumbling clowns who can't form a single coherent sentence?

Macrobat · Mar 25, 2009, 12:47 PM

Originally Posted by besson3c

Ahhh, so you buy into the notion that Obama is a puppet that is dependent on somebody else to feed him lines (despite the fact that he, in fact, writes many of his own speeches even according to William Saffire, who was Nixon's speechwriter and a well known Republican?) Okay, I guess this is where this conversation ends then!

Safire also says repeatedly that Obama's speeches are pure crap - sure you want to marry that reference?

Macrobat · Mar 25, 2009, 12:51 PM

Originally Posted by hyteckit

John McCain kicks @ss in townhall style debates.

Obama kicks John McCain's @ss in the townhall style Presidential debates.

Obama sucks, and needs a telepromter.

So does that make most Republicans idiot bumbling clowns who can't form a single coherent sentence?

There was only one town hall debate and the only ones who claimed Obama won it were his defnders. Not sure what ass-kicking you are referencing, since big Zero had such a bad experience he refused to do any more town hall meetings.

besson3c · Mar 25, 2009, 12:53 PM

Originally Posted by Macrobat

Safire also says repeatedly that Obama's speeches are pure crap - sure you want to marry that reference?

Yes, because this is not at issue, the issue is whether they are his own, and whether they are delivered with eloquence. It is possible to disagree with everything that is said while still finding the speech eloquent. I'm sure Hitler was eloquent!

besson3c · Mar 25, 2009, 12:55 PM

How can somebody "kick ass" at a debate? This isn't football! I'll show myself the door...

I really think we should rename this place the "Vomitorium" - a much cooler and suitable name!

hyteckit · Mar 25, 2009, 01:10 PM

Originally Posted by besson3c

How can somebody "kick ass" at a debate? This isn't football! I'll show myself the door...

I really think we should rename this place the "Vomitorium" - a much cooler and suitable name!

The goal of a debate is to kick ass.

If there is no ass kicking involve, it would just be a discussion.

Doofy · Mar 25, 2009, 01:17 PM

Can't we all just agree that Obama sucks balls and then all just get on?

hyteckit · Mar 25, 2009, 01:18 PM

Originally Posted by Macrobat

There was only one town hall debate and the only ones who claimed Obama won it were his defnders. Not sure what ass-kicking you are referencing, since big Zero had such a bad experience he refused to do any more town hall meetings.

I guess that would be the majority of the US population then.

Only a small minority is up ass tight about a teleprompter.

Macrobat · 02:35 PM

Originally Posted by hyteckit

I guess that would be the majority of the US population then.

Only a small minority is up ass tight about a teleprompter.

Only a small minority is up ass tight about drilling for our own oil and natural gas, too. (68% majority in favor of drilling - thats more people than VOTED for Obama). That doesn't seem to matter,either.

And no, it most certainly was not a majority of the US population, since the most instantaneous results poll - the cell phone text poll, had McCain winning almost two to one.

Besides, since Obama has thrown out every position he had atthat debate in favor of furthering Bush Administration policies, it could be argued that Bush won it.

SpaceMonkey · Mar 25, 2009, 02:38 PM

Originally Posted by Macrobat

And no, it most certainly was not a majority of the US population, since the most instantaneous results poll - the cell phone text poll, had McCain winning almost two to one.

Self-selecting polls usually don't carry much weight. The CNN poll conducted right after the debate indicated an Obama "win":
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/...oll/index.html

hyteckit · Mar 25, 2009, 02:41 PM

Originally Posted by Macrobat

Only a small minority is up ass tight about drilling for our own oil and natural gas, too. (68% majority in favor of drilling - thats more people than VOTED for Obama). That doesn't seem to matter,either.

What does drilling for oil have anything to do with teleprompters and the debate?

You mean whether Obama uses a teleprompter is very important to Americans and should be a main concern?

I'm glad you have your priorities straight.

Forget the economy. Lets ban teleprompters!

Originally Posted by Macrobat

And no, it most certainly was not a majority of the US population, since the most instantaneous results poll - the cell phone text poll, had McCain winning almost two to one.

I disagree. Most most instantaneous results poll have Obama winning almost two to one.

Macrobat · Mar 25, 2009, 02:50 PM

Originally Posted by hyteckit

What does drilling for oil have anything to do with teleprompters and the debate?

You mean whether Obama uses a teleprompter is very important to Americans and should be a main concern?

I'm glad you have your priorities straight.

Forget the economy. Lets ban teleprompters!

I disagree. Most most instantaneous results poll have Obama winning almost two to one.

Has to do with pointing out the ridiculousness of your minority "argument. Not to mention that drilling would help the economy massively.

And Obama is tanking the economy, so forget both.

What's important about the teleprompter is his inability to even answer questions without it present - he is getting his answers through it, plain and simple. From someone NOT elected to his office. It is further evidence (as if any was needed) of his complete incompetence.

Believe me, my priorities are straight. Economy in the toilet and Obama is still campaigning and making Jay Leno appearances. Seems his priorities are the one at question.

Want to know the difference betweeen Jesus Christ and Obama?

Jesus Christ could build a cabinet.

hyteckit · Mar 25, 2009, 03:01 PM

Originally Posted by Macrobat

Has to do with pointing out the ridiculousness of your minority "argument. Not to mention that drilling would help the economy massively.

I was just pointing out a very small minority,such as yourself, is more worry about Obama using a teleprompter than they are worried about the economy,

hyteckit · Mar 25, 2009, 03:08 PM

Originally Posted by Macrobat

Want to know the difference betweeen Jesus Christ and Obama?

Jesus Christ is a socialist.

Macrobat · Mar 25, 2009, 03:10 PM

Actually alot of the same people are worried about Obama "using" both.

And what difference does it make what size the questioning minority is? It is obviously larger than you want to try to let on, since it is a subject of discussion so large that the media is currently making a big deal about him supposedly NOT using it last night.

Perhaps you should check that "minority" claim again, huh?

Before you say anything - he most certainly DID use it last night, he simply had the text relocated onto a 52-inch LCD Tv set up in the back of the room just for the purpose. He wanted to give the APPEARANCE of not using it - perhaps that concern level is higher than you want to pretend?

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&s...er&btnG=Search

Before you claim he didn't use one last night, watch the video, it's right there on the LCD in the back of the room.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGswD1FnRIQ

Macrobat · Mar 25, 2009, 03:11 PM

Originally Posted by hyteckit

Jesus Christ is a socialist.

Both of them, huh?

SpaceMonkey · Mar 25, 2009, 03:21 PM

Originally Posted by Macrobat

Before you say anything - he most certainly DID use it last night, he simply had the text relocated onto a 52-inch LCD Tv set up in the back of the room just for the purpose. He wanted to give the APPEARANCE of not using it - perhaps that concern level is higher than you want to pretend?

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&s...er&btnG=Search

Before you claim he didn't use one last night, watch the video, it's right there on the LCD in the back of the room.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGswD1FnRIQ

Aha, so they were so concerned that they hid it in plain sight, eh? Crafty.

sek929 · Mar 25, 2009, 03:28 PM

Clearly a failed presidency.

hyteckit · Mar 25, 2009, 03:35 PM

Originally Posted by Macrobat

Actually alot of the same people are worried about Obama "using" both.

And what difference does it make what size the questioning minority is? It is obviously larger than you want to try to let on, since it is a subject of discussion so large that the media is currently making a big deal about him supposedly NOT using it last night.

Perhaps you should check that "minority" claim again, huh?

Before you say anything - he most certainly DID use it last night, he simply had the text relocated onto a 52-inch LCD Tv set up in the back of the room just for the purpose. He wanted to give the APPEARANCE of not using it - perhaps that concern level is higher than you want to pretend?

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&s...er&btnG=Search

Before you claim he didn't use one last night, watch the video, it's right there on the LCD in the back of the room.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGswD1FnRIQ

Reminds me of the Obama and the flag pin news generated by the conservative media.
Then it was his middle name "Hussein".

Obama doesn't wear a flag pin.
Obama's middle name is Hussein.
Obama uses a teleprompter.

That is outrageous!

What's next on the conservative agenda?

Obama wears mostly black suits.

If I didn't know better, I would think conservatives are only concern with flag pins and teleprompters.

Macrobat · Mar 25, 2009, 03:46 PM

Oh yeah, it's just like the flag pin to wonder who is pulling the strings of the puppet in chief, huh?

BTW, Sarah Palin never made the statement in your sig. That was Tina Fey - says alot about the level of attention paid, hmm?

What's "next" on the agenda is Obama's destroying the American economy with his policies.

hyteckit · Mar 25, 2009, 03:47 PM

Originally Posted by Macrobat

Both of them, huh?

It would be awesome if Obama is a socialist.

That would mean Obama is one step closer to being Christ-like.

Macrobat · Mar 25, 2009, 03:50 PM

Christ was not a socialist, so your statement is moronic. He did not take from one group to give to another.

Chongo · Mar 25, 2009, 03:51 PM

Courtesy of Mrs Malkin

hyteckit · Mar 25, 2009, 03:57 PM

Originally Posted by Chongo

Courtesy of Mrs Malkin

Can we get one with Republicans and flag pins?

hyteckit · Mar 25, 2009, 04:03 PM

hyteckit · Mar 25, 2009, 04:10 PM

Teleprompter vs. no teleprompter

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVjNVPsL5EY

Shaddim · Mar 25, 2009, 04:34 PM

Originally Posted by Macrobat

Christ was not a socialist, so your statement is moronic. He did not take from one group to give to another.

You're spot-on.

He taught individual change, not a building up of the establishment.

"be not conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind."

hyteckit · Mar 25, 2009, 04:57 PM

Originally Posted by Shaddim

You're spot-on.

He taught individual change, not a building up of the establishment.

"be not conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind."

Jesus Christ was against building up of the establishment? Really?

Jesus Christ is the reason for the organized establishment called Christianity.

Organize religion and individuality don't mix. You follow the doctrines of the religion.