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You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Political/War Lounge > Impeachment Odds: Place Your Bets

Impeachment Odds: Place Your Bets (Page 2)
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Thorzdad
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Oct 24, 2019, 07:59 AM
 
Meanwhile, Trump's lawyers were before a Federal appeals judge, fighting the Manhattan DA's order for his tax returns. The lawyers' claim is pretty straight-forward...The President cannot so much as be investigated while in office, let alone tried for a crime. When asked if that would apply even to the hypothetical "shoot someone in Times Square" scenario, Trump's lawyers said that it does.

Basically, they are arguing for an untouchable, imperial presidency.

While this doesn't directly relate to the House investigation, an appeals court (or SCOTUS, where this is eventually headed) deciding for Trump's claim of immunity, would essentially kill any and all investigations, including the House's.
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I'll read it in your entrails
     
andi*pandi  (op)
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Oct 24, 2019, 08:41 AM
 
Some of the guys "storming" in were on the committees that were eligible to be in the SCIF room. They just wanted to be part of the mob, and encourage people to think that republicans weren't allowed in the room. Misinformation. Fox News report they were literally asking to be arrested - which anybody else would have been. If they'd been arrested think how that would have gone: EVIL DEMS KEEPING US FROM THE TRUTH!

That they pulled this on this day, when Pelosi was at her brother's funeral, implies a) they were taking advantage of Pelosi's absence, b) there was something particularly damning in today's testimony they wanted to postpone, c) chaos is cool.
     
Waragainstsleep
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Oct 26, 2019, 10:19 AM
 
Enough already, somebody needs to drag him into the street and burn him with napalm. I'll settle for a sniper though.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
andi*pandi  (op)
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Oct 26, 2019, 12:34 PM
 
Careful there Ca$h...
But yeah.
     
Thorzdad
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Oct 26, 2019, 08:53 PM
 
And make him into a martyr? Are you nuts?
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reader50
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Oct 27, 2019, 12:26 AM
 
Let's pull for the rule of law.

Developments so far support abuse of authority and contempt of Congress. With hints of obstruction of justice. Those were the 3 charges Nixon faced when he resigned. The system is working as it should. If the evidence becomes conclusive, it will be sent to the Senate for trial. At which point, Trump will have his defense rights, to cross-examine witnesses, etc.

When Nixon was in office, he held broad Senate support until the tapes were made public. After that, Senate support rapidly vanished. If he hadn't resigned, he would certainly have been convicted.
     
Waragainstsleep
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Oct 28, 2019, 05:43 AM
 
The law is a complete ass if a sitting president cannot be charged with a crime.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
reader50
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Oct 30, 2019, 04:04 AM
 
Alexander Vindman testified this week. He's the first person to testify who actually listened to Trump's Ukraine phone call.

Of note, Vindman testimony conflicts with Gordon Sondland's.
Vindman said he told Sondland that "his statements were inappropriate, that the request to investigate Biden and his son had nothing to do with national security, and that such investigations were not something the NSC was going to get involved in or push."

The account stands in stark contrast with the testimony delivered by Sondland to House investigators last week.

Sondland, a hotelier who donated one million dollars to Trump's candidacy and was appointed to the prestigious post by the president in 2018, said he did not recall that anyone from the NSC had "ever expressed any concerns" over the administration's dealings with Ukraine and that Sondland did not at the time know there was any connection between Biden and Burisma company.
That makes two people who disagree with Sondland. Bill Taylor's testimony also conflicts with Sondland's. It's looking like Gordon glossed over his support for the Ukraine shenanigans.

Oh, and Trump is already claiming Lieutenant Colonel Vindman is a Never-Trumper. Available data suggests he's non-partisan. And a decorated war veteran.
     
reader50
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Nov 5, 2019, 07:24 PM
 
Gordon Sondland has revised his testimony. He now remembers a quid pro quo shaping up.
He [Sondland] originally told investigators he took Trump at his word that there was never a quid pro quo attaching aid or a White House visit to investigations. But as additional witnesses testified and more information became public, Sondland appeared to have a change of heart. The week after his deposition, Sondland returned with lawyers to Capitol Hill to “review” his testimony.
Gordon Sondland, the US ambassador to the European Union, said he had told a senior official in Ukraine that nearly $400m in military aid would probably be withheld until the country announced an investigation into corruption, including allegations concerning a gas company with ties to the former vice-president Joe Biden’s son Hunter.
...
The altered testimony raised eyebrows in Washington. Matthew Miller, a former director of the office of public affairs at the justice department, tweeted: “Helluva thing for Sondland to have forgotten in his first appearance.”
According to the article, Sondland was the only witness who had not seen a quid pro quo developing. This doesn't look good for Trump's position that there was nothing wrong with his Ukraine call.

Ukaraine wisely wants no involvement in the impeachment investigation. I don't see anything for them to gain, regardless of how the impeachment goes.
     
OreoCookie
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Nov 5, 2019, 08:24 PM
 
That's why the initial testimony was and should have been secret: otherwise witnesses will be able to adjust their testimony to match prior testimony. Sondland probably wanted to ensure not to be indicted for lying under oath.
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reader50
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Nov 8, 2019, 08:36 PM
 
Those who oppose impeachment are finally making a move. Death threats against Fiona Hill, Marie Yovanovitch, others who have served on the NSC. They ramped up after Hill testified. Oh, along with obscene phone calls and unexpected visitors at her house.

Threatening witnesses often works to limit testimony in criminal cases. We'd better get that whistleblower exposed, so he/she can get death threats too.
     
OreoCookie
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Nov 8, 2019, 09:33 PM
 
Well, you don’t want to leave him or her out … 
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reader50
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Nov 20, 2019, 01:57 PM
 
Gordon Sondland came back for the public testimony. The guy who kept leaving out things the other witnesses testified to.

This time, he stopped leaving those things out. Not sure if he left anything out the others hadn't mentioned.
In a major blow to the president, Gordon Sondland, the US ambassador to the European Union, said in bombshell evidence he was forced to work with Trump’s personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani against his will, and criticised the White House and state department for failing to provide records.
...
“We did not want to work with Mr Giuliani. Simply put, we played the hand we were dealt. We all understood that if we refused to work with Mr Giuliani, we would lose an important opportunity to cement relations between the United States and Ukraine. So we followed the president’s orders.”
He may have talked his way out of the July 26 call he hadn't mentioned before. He remembers the call, but didn't attach significance to it at the time, and doesn't recall talking about Bidens etc. to anyone afterwards.

I'm not sure if I buy the forgetfulness, but he probably has talked his way out of indictment (lying to Congress under oath).
     
andi*pandi  (op)
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Nov 20, 2019, 02:15 PM
 
Twitter is full of sondland throwing trump under the bus jokes. They are delightful.
     
 
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