[pteam5]

We have a new MacBook Pro with wireless. Also have a PC desktop hardwired through the WRT54G wireless router to the DSL modem. Also have a PC laptop with wireless. Desktop works fine. PC laptop works fine for wireless internet access. However, when we try wireless access to internet with MacBook Pro, things go haywire; typically get on for a few minutes and then all internet access locks up (for desktop and both laptops).

Have tried many combinations (each computer alone, desktop and MBP, PC laptop and MBP, etc.). MBP by itself works the longest (about 10 minutes). Tried getting a new WRT54G, but no difference. Spent hours on the phone with both Linksys and Apple. Set new SSID for WRT54G, reset several times, updated firmware, set up WEP security, and several other things.

Took Mac to Apple store and wireless worked fine. Have tried poaching unsecured wireless internet connections and sometimes it works but usually not.

Have been looking at a lot of forums and other info sources, and it looks like we are not alone in having problems with the MBP/WRT54G combo. Is there a solution?

[ghporter]

I'd say your MBP's wireless settings aren't quite right for the router. What ARE your settings? And what kind of security do you have currently? Further, what are the settings on the PC laptop's wireless?

[milhous]

i have the WRT54G v2.2 and have had nothing but trouble-free operation. some thoughts:

1. do you use other 2.4ghz devices like cordless phones? if so, try setting it to a different frequency.

2. are both laptops running G or a combination of B/G? make sure the appropriate setting is defined in the router interface.

3. create a new location document with only the airport interface selected and see what happens.

4. make sure that all xp clients have network bridging turned off. this can cause a lot of network problems. make sure that internet sharing is turned off in mac os x.

5. disconnect the hardwired pc and turn off the pc laptop and try to connect only with the macbook pro wirelessly and see what happens.

6. are you assigning static ip addresses or are they all dynamic? if static, make sure there are no duplicate instances of clients using the same ip address.

good luck.

[pteam5]

Thanks for the help.

During the day, we found one little part of a thread which suggested that the bluetooth was interfering. We turned off the bluetooth which is a totally suitable workaround for us (who uses the bluetooth anyway?) and now everthing is working fine. Probably an IRQ conflict problem.

Maybe this will help others.

[Big Mac]

Okay, glad to see you fixed you're problem, but if you're talking about OS X you should know OS X does not use IRQs. (At least I hope to God the Mactels don't use the IRQ interface on OS X.)

[ghporter]

Never thought of that. If it was indeed the Bluetooth causing the problem, it was because its frequency is in the same band as WiFi. In certain situations (like you leave Bluetooth on and it spends it's time looking for other BT devices), it can be a noticable interference source.

Glad you're fixed!

[erayser]

pteam5: I have the encountered the exact problematic scenario you described. I too have a mixture of Windows XP laptops/desktops and a recently acquired Macbook Pro in a Linksys WRT54G network. Although I have over 10 years of Windows admin experience, his is my first major encounter with a Mac.

I have been a user of a hardware version 1 WRT54G router for over 3 years and have never encountered a problem until I put the MBP on the network.

However, the MBP will not communicate with the version 1 router if 128-bit WEP is implemented. It will work if no encryption is enabled, but common sense dictates that this is unacceptable.

I also had two version 5 routers handy. The Windows PCs would work flawlessly; however, as soon as that MBP was on the network, it would only be a matter of time before my entire wireless network would go down. Sometimes, the network would function fine for a few hours. Other times, I rebooted both of my routers 4 times in under 1 hour.

To make matters worse, the MBP would connect to the router with WPA encryption enabled However, it would not obtain an IP address via DHCP. This situation occurred with SSID broadcasting enabled and disabled.

The three routers I used were already upgraded with the most recent firmware offered by Linksys prior to the incorporation of the MBP onto the network.

Interestingly, my brother uses this MBP at office, which likewise uses a WRT54G router. There have been no network outages to date. Unfortunately, I don't know which hardware version is used by the router in question. However, I will tell you that the router is at least 25 feet away (without line-of-sight) from the MBP.

It's 3:41 AM now and I'm tired after spending 6 hours trying to resolve this issue. I'll see if disabling Bluetooth as mentioned in this thread will make an appreciable difference.

To be continued....

[ghporter]

erayser, Welcome to the MacNN Forums! And you problem is probably an issue with the implementation of WEP in the MBP's AirPort software. But this really shouldn't be an issue, because NOBODY should EVER use WEP. Using WEP is almost as bad as no encryption at all. Maybe worse, since it seems to give you a nice, warm safe feeling that's not warranted-WEP is far too easily broken, almost trivially so.

How does it work using WPA? WPA is very secure and, unlike WEP, everything about it is standardized, including the way you enter your passphrase.

[erayser]

Well, I disabled Bluetooth on the MBP; nonetheless, my wireless network was brought down within 2 minute's after the MBP was admitted into the network.

I should mention that the MBP is about 15 ft. away from my router without direct line-of-sight.

As for WPA encryption, I noticed that the MBP can detect the router's signal, however, it won't fully initialize as evidenced by its unsuccessful attempt to obtain a valid IP address via DHCP. I have to manually create another wireless network connection on the MBP by inputting the SSID and WPA encryption key the first time I get onto the network after bootup.

I've perused numerous forums, visited both Linksys and Apple's tech support sites but to no avail. I've also come to realize that the WRT54G v.5 router is almost universally regarded as inferior to its predecessors.

My first foray with the supposedly trouble-free Mac has been less than joyous. As a techie, I normally would enjoy trying to solve this issue but after 8+ hours, aww hell no.

[Tomchu]

Find a friend with a MBP and test it out on your own network. It sounds to me like the MBP is the cause of the problems, though I don't see how.

I use WRT54Gs almost exclusively, and I have yet to have issues -- then again I'm running DD-WRT v23 SP1 on all of them.

[ghporter]

I'm starting to think there's a fault in erayser's AirPort card, or at least the drivers need to be reloaded. Have you tried this, erayser? As Tomchu says, the WRT54G is usually trouble free for most users, and the ones that have trouble tend to have trouble with ALL their computers.

[Tomchu]

Originally Posted by ghporter

... the ones that have trouble tend to have trouble with ALL their computers.

Ahahaha ... how true. ;-) I usually label these as classic cases of PEBKAC, if you know what I mean.

[erayser]

Thanks ghporter and Tomchu for your previous suggestions on using another MBP and reloading the drivers for diagnostic purposes.

I can assure you that all is fine BKAC. I'd like to think of this issue as CRAP: Computer-Router Acknowledgement Problem.

Here is something you might find interesting:

I happen to have a Linksys WAP54G (v3.1) access point to establish a wireless connection for my SlingBox. The AP is running in signal repeater mode for my router, and this setup has worked flawlessly from initial setup.

Just for the sake of experimentation, I reconfigured the MBP to point to the AP's SSID rather than the router's. I wanted to ascertain if the MBP would likewise have any adverse affect on the AP. Second, I had wanted to see if the AP would serve as a buffer of sort to prevent crashing of the router by the MBP.


Well, within 5 minutes of MBP use, my network went down again. This despite that the fact I sacrificed a goat to the gods, had my fingers, toes (and perhaps other body parts) crossed, and even enabled/disabled Interference Robustness and IP v.6.

Interestingly, I only had to reboot the router and not the AP in order restore network functionality. The AP apparently had not crashed: I was able to still ping it and run SlingBox even though I forgot to reboot it after the router crash.

So does this beg the question of whether MBP packets' being first sent to the AP cause the router to crash upon its receipt of re-transmitted packets? Why didn't the AP crash also? Also, I was beginning to wonder if the MBP will cause my router to crash even if it's not properly associated by means of proper SSID & encryption configuration. That's another experiment for me to do.

BTW, I have not reloaded the drivers on the MBP. I only ran the Software Update feature. I'm still new to OS X and the MBP in question is not mine. I seldom have access to it, and when I do, I only have a brief time to play with the Airport settings and nothing more.

Dammit, this issue is like being in a relationship: frustrating as hell yet provocative enough to find a resolution.

[Cory Bauer]

Hey all,

Sitting at my girlfriend's on my 17" MacBook Pro next to her WRT54G wireless router. Guess what? Her network was working fine until I came over today with my MacBook Pro and within 2 minutes of me being connected the network went down. There are other PCs on the network as well. Right now I'm plugged directly into the router with Airport and Bluetooth turned off.

Here's an interesting tidbit. I am the only computer in my apartment, and have an Airport Express. On several occassions I have come home from work, woken my MacBook Pro and used the internet for but a few minutes before the network has to be rebooted. So it's not just her network my MacBook Pro is crashing; it's my own, even when I'm the only one on it.

I'll report back what happens, but any suggestions would be great. Also, if anyone could load their 17" MacBook Pro wireless drivers to replace mine, that'd be great. Thanks!

*edit* Just after posting this, the network went down again. So plugging the MacBook Pro directly to the router with Airport and Bluetooth disabled did not stop the network from crashing. Thoughts?

[ghporter]

I'm thinking there's something odd with the AirPort card drivers you're using. There have been other reports of MacBooks and MBPs goofing up networks, while other Macs had no negative effects on them. The problem is that I can't for the life of me figure out how a client can bring down a network...

[Cory Bauer]

It really makes no sense. If a single computer can crash a network just by joining it, imagine all the Starbucks and other WiFi hotspots that would be broken every day. I left my MacBook Pro off last night, and my girlfriend's network remained functional.

[Cory Bauer]

Here's a new followup. I brought my 17" MacBook Pro into the office today. After having it plugged into the network for about 2 hours, the router went down. Our router has never gone down on us during the day in the years that we've had it. It's a D-Link DI-604. So my MacBook Pro has crashed every router it's come in contact with, wired or wireless. Anyone have any recommendations?

[prof_fuyutsuki]

I've also been having problems with the WRT54G and the new Macbook Pro (it just arrived on Friday!)

Previously, we've had two PCs, one desktop and one laptop (the laptop is from work, so I have limited configuration options open to me when I need to use it at home) connected wirelessly to the network. The Desktop connects using 802.11g, and the laptop using 802.11b. Until we fired up the Macbook, we hadn't had any issues out of the normal with our internet connection, however upon starting that, the connection stayed alive on the PCs for about 10 minutes before they died. Resetting the router seemed to help, as the connection for the laptop came to life, and the upon checking the desktop, I found the same to be true.

I'm going to attempt to debug the system tonight, and hopefully one of the many suggestions (firmware upgrade to the WRT54G, disable MacBook's bluetooth, rework the WPA-Personal security settings on each system) will help. I will let you all know if there is any resolution. Any additional ideas for things to try will, of course, be most welcome

[prof_fuyutsuki]

Thus far, the status is:

Disabling Bluetooth on the MacBook - The computer is now able to be manually connected upon startup, but will crash the network if it goes to sleep at all.

Upgrading router firmware to v1.00.9 and recreating WPA-Personal secured network: No change.

Tomorrow I'm going to take the MBP down to the basement (where the router lives) and plug it in so that I can check for OS, AirPort, and other upgrades.

[prof_fuyutsuki]

Still no luck. I thought that I had it for a minute, but then it crashed the network again

Today's attempt involved a software update to the latest rev. of OSX, along with miscellaneous other pieces of software. And, the MBP showed a remarkable ability to crash the WRT54G using the ethernet cable as well.

I found a suggestion somewhere to try setting the MTU to 1480 on the Linksys. I've changed the setting, and I'll find out tomorrow if that made any difference.

[erayser]

It's been almost a month since I've last posted to this thread. I no longer have any problems with my MBP and WRT54G router interacting together.

As I mentioned in a previous thread, my brother's office uses a WRT-54G router as well, but his MBP never crashed the network at that location. I have ascertained that the router in the question is VERSION 2.

I have since purchased a v.2 WRT-54G router from eBay and have not experienced any problems with it whatsoever when the MBP is on the network. I am now going on to the third week of usage without incident.

Please note that Milhous noted in the 8/12/06 post above that a v.2.2 router seems to be unaffected when an MBP is on the network.

I am curious as to what version your router is, prof fuyutsuki. Please state if you can.

[pliny]

There is a big thread over at Apple discussions about Macbooks and Macbook Pros hosing Linksys-routed networks. Check out My Macbook Drops connection regularly!

One of the solutions has been to decrease the wireless beacon interval from 100ms to 50ms. This has worked for me. I was experiencing drop outs on my Macbook with my WRT54G v.6. Not only that--when it would drop out on my MB sometimes it would take the entire network down so that 2 other machines (one wired Mac, one wireless PC) lost connections.

A few things have come out of that thread at Apple about the Linksys WRT54G. The problem might be a power management problem on the Mb's, as some have indicated that they experience the problem esp. when they are running on battery or when waking from sleep.

Another solution was to switch to WPA from WEP as the WEP keys from the Macbooks seemed to irritate the Linksys.

[ghporter]

Dumping WEP is a good idea for no other reason than WEP is poo. But if it makes things goober up between your Intel Mac and your network, that's an even better reason.

[ltn4life]

just posted about my MBP losing connectivity. I use a Netgear and i seem to have the same problem of losing wireless connections. I've tried everything. Seems every where you look on the net someone is having this problem with any router. Seem like apple just doesn't care about this issue. They no its a problem but refuse to acknowldge it.

LtN

[spice003]

had the same problem you guys talking about. i had a wrt54g v.1.1 flashed with sveasoft firmware and my macbook pro would would disconnect in like a minutes after conecting, so i tried flashing it with liksys firmware and bricked my router. the i went to compusa and talked to a mac expert they had one there, asked if they have some like that going on. they said no, i asked what router they are using the he went in the back and checked, it was a wrt54g V.5
so i got one of those, came home and hooked it up, and what do you know no more disconcerting from the network. everything works fine i can browse for hours. i did however change the channel to 3 from 9. i hope this helps

[ghporter]

Spice, that's kind of amazing, since teh WRT54G v.5 is generally regarded as the least robust of the WRT54G line. It has a rep as being flakey and prone to stopping or failing. That it would clear up your "network crashing" problems is pretty surprising.

[pliny]

I returned my Linksys WRTG v.6 for a D-Link WBR-1310. The Linksys kept flaking out and every machine would lose connectity. It did, however, have fast throughput when it worked.

The Dlink is a solid router so far. On the box it says it supports OS X 10.3 and 10.4, which I liked. No other router I saw mentioned OS X on the box. Edit: I think the Belkin mentioned OS X.

The setup disk works on a Mac also (most just work on a PC).

The web interface is very easy and simple to follow.

The speed is just as good as or better than the Linksys. PLUS it doesn't drop out or bring the entire network down. It was $20 cheaper than the Linksys, has a smaller footprint, has a stand, and works. Another nice otuch is the transformer. It is narrow and extends up away from a plug, ratherthan cover it all up.

Before the Linksys and D-Link I had (and still have as backup) a Netgear WGR 614 v.4. Up until Mac 10.4, this router worked well. It was a very stable connection with solid speed.

Under Tiger it is stable but slow as a dog. Don't know why.

[spice003]

iall i can say is try different routers, just buy one and if it crashes just take it back to the store and get a different one they are not gonna say anything just tell its doesn't work with my mac. and try changing channels on the router.

[ghporter]

pliny, routers support ETHERNET; there's nothing Mac specific to ethernet routing. While it's good for the manufacturers to think about Macs, it is hard for them to make a device not work with one.

[pliny]

yeah, I know routers support Ethernet!

They're supposed to work fine across any system. BUT. In my experience with several routers in different brands across several systems Mac & PC, it is definitely hit or miss. So far on 10.4 and a mixed network (PC & Mac and wireless and wired) the best working router is the Dlink. It's been the cheapest too.

The Linksys dropped out all the time, brought down the whole network.
The Netgear is slow as a dog, like I said. It stays up but is just awful for browsing. It is definitely noticeable.

I don't know why some routers and some verisosn of them, work better than others.

What I meant by the packaging saying they work in 10.3 , etc., is that the setup disks work on MacOS systems. Not a big deal for me personally as I always use the web interface; but this means at least that they've been run on MacOS systems and that the interface isn't garbaage.

[ghporter]

I have seen others post that their Linksys routers were flakey, and it didn't seem to matter whether they had Macs, PCs, Linux machines, or what on them... I've never had a problem with my own Linksys stuff on my mixed platform network. And as far as I can tell, the only thing exceptional about MacOS's handling of ethernet is that Apple seems to be more standards-compliant than others are, and I don't see how that could cause problems.

I think every manufacturer that offers a "set up disc" should include an explanation of what the thing does. Far too many users seem to think this is a magic device that is essential to the box working at all-and that tends to give potential users the idea that some platform-independent networking devices like routers don't support Macs. That bugs the crap out of me, because at this time, the only major maker of consumer network equipment that requires software to configure their hardware is Apple!

Someday, when I get time (yeah, right!) I'm going to develop a couple of stickies for this forum, including a basic troubleshooting process checklist, and a FAQ about how to set up most brands of equipment. That latter one will be really simple to do, since they almost all work pretty much identically.

[pliny]

The setup disks are a bit redundant if you know how to navigate a router's web interface and just set it up. Usually with a Mac it's fine just to plug the router in and the Mac autoconnects. This is what happened with the DLink. I plugged it in and was up and running into the interface in about 30 seconds.

The setup disks come with orange stickers that read, "RUN THIS FIRST FOR BEST RESULTS!!!1!!!"

If you know what yer doing with a router this sticker is like one saying, "TO USE YOUR COMPUTER TURN ON YOUR COMPUTER FOR BEST REUSLTS!!!1!!"

[shiftywidget]

I bought a mac pro and plugged it in to my wrt54g v.5 router. Every two minutes the network goes down for my thinkpad. It doesn't matter whether the thinkpad is using wireless or a cable to connect to the router. I installed xp on the mac pro through boot camp and when the mac pro is connected to the router in xp there are no network problems at all. Now I connect the mac pro to the wireless network using a wireless extender for consoles and it's the same situation. As interesting as it would be for airport software or airport cards or network cards to be the issue this seems to indicate that the problem is either in os x networking code. It's somewhat annoying to not be able to use os x if I actually want networking to work :/ I'll check out a dlink or belkin though. Thanks for the suggestions.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by pliny

If you know what yer doing with a router this sticker is like one saying, "TO USE YOUR COMPUTER TURN ON YOUR COMPUTER FOR BEST REUSLTS!!!1!!"

I hope you're sitting down...

My son's "basic computer literacy" class in high school was taught by someone who would need the above warning on a bright orange sticker. My son's computer didn't work, so instead of even looking at it, the teacher jotted down a note to call their IT people. My son looked at the computer, saw that THE POWER CORD WASN'T FULLY PLUGGED INTO THE COMPUTER, corrected that, and got the machine running in just about the time it took for it to boot. This was a TEACHER OF COMPUTER ANYTHING?!?!?! OMGWTFBBQ!!!!111!!!

True story, sadly...

You're right - SO RIGHT - about those setup discs. And making setup so "I don't have to know beans about it" makes the whole network even more mysterious, and consequently easier to screw up, compromise, and otherwise let go to poo.

I still don't know why certain Macs (mostly Intel Mac laptops) kill certain (often but not always Linksys WRT54G-based) wireless networks. Darn it.

[martinb]

I'm glad I found this forum. I'm seeing exactly the same problem. I was about to take my MBP back, and tell them it's got bad wireless HW. I recently bought a MBP, and it crashes my WRT54GS, wired or wireless. Previously, no problems with two XP laptops using the wireless. I'm going to sniff packets with ethereal and look for anything suspect. I'll let you know what I find.

[bearcatrp]

I have another post related to the problem with wireless and linksys. I actually have good connections once I input all the information between my iMac 24 inch and my linksys 54G. I just can't get it to save the info so I don't have to always input the information to log in. I have ZERO problems with my powerbook G4. My assumption is it has to be with the intel version unless someone out there with a ppc system tells me they have the same problem as we are with our intel version.
Randy

[martinb]

I solved my problem - I disabled UPnP in the WRT54GS, and everything works fine now.
see Apple - Support - Discussions - Internet, and Networking the MacBook Pro for more.

[ghporter]

Universal Plug and Play (UPnP) is an interesting concept, but everything I've ever seen involving it was BAD. It can open up network security holes, it makes wimple network management tasks more complex, and it is NOT universal (unlike IEEE standards, the UPnP standard is only an industry initiative).

I've left UPnP support off in all of my equipment because of the security issues, but maybe a device that expects some sort of UPnP interface (the router) can get confused because a device it expects to be UPnP capable doesn't reply... In any case, turning off UPnP sounds like a Good Idea®™ and I'm going to try to spread the world.

[gllghrs]

I have been reading MacNN forums for last couple of weeks. I was so glad I found the forum knowing I am not the only one having this problem. It's been so frustrating I was about to explode. I joined the forums to share my solution.

I had similar mysterious problem with WRT54GS v6 router. We were using the router in office and all computers were working fine (three PCs and two Macs) until one person brought his own MacBook from home. Two minutes after his connection, all the Macs including visitor's lost internet connection. Resetting and power cycling the router, upgrading to the newest firmware, turning Bluetooth off, cleaning up network setting, changing the router settings of channel, MTU, beacon interval, having computer guy take a look our system, calling Linksys level 3 tech... none of them worked. Exchange to a new router (same model) brought back a connection for several days but the same thing happened when we had a MacBook.

After enormous amount of work and research (mostly from this MacNN forums), I finally fixed it
What worked for me was downgrading the firmware from version 1.50.9 to 1.50.8. Now all computers including MacBook has stable connection.

It has been posted in other forums that similar problems with WRT54G v6 were fixed with downgrading the firmware. Since Linksys has removed old version of firmware from ftp site, I upload what I used. Though I checked this is virus free and it worked nicely to our settings, please use at your own risk.

QuickSharing.com - Files Shared Quick! Up to 500MB!
(Click "Download file")

Hope this helps!

[brokecollegestudentF04]

I had the same problem with my mac mini, it would always bring the network down when connected to the linksys WRT54G, After 3 different routers, I finally went with the Cheapo Belkin 54G router, works great, the network hasnt crashed at all

[mlem]

Linksys released a new firmware for the WRT54G v5 and v6. Apparently, there was an bug in the way that the router issued IP addresses to Mac clients. I tested out the new firmware on both a PPC and an Intel Mac and the upgrade seems to work perfectly.

For more information: macnewsonline

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by mlem 

Linksys released a new firmware for the WRT54G v5 and v6. Apparently, there was an bug in the way that the router issued IP addresses to Mac clients. I tested out the new firmware on both a PPC and an Intel Mac and the upgrade seems to work perfectly.

For more information: macnewsonline

That's great news. I hope it works for everybody!

[frdmfghtr]

From the MacNewsOnline post:

Fortunately, after a number support calls and desperate forum posts begging for help, Linksys has released new firmware for the WRT54G v5 and v6 to appease a vocal Mac audience. The upgrade resolves the DHCP issue. If you have a 54G router, I highly recommend upgrading ASAP!

"Appease a vocal Mac audience"? There is no "appeasement" involved; this isn't just a simple annoyance, it's a flaw in the firmware that needed to be fixed.

(rant mode off...I'm off to fix my router)

[frdmfghtr]

I upgraded the firmware in my WRT54G v6 and so far, so good--but I want to go a few days (at least) before I say all is fixed here.

[frdmfghtr]

So far, no DHCP problems...the only problem that seems to recur is a dropped connection that requires rebooting the router (WRT54G v6).

I've come to the conclusion that Linksys routers are, to borrow ghporter's phrase, "poo." Not just the v5 router either...the WRT54G is poo in general. I've never had this problem with the access points on campus, only with Linksys WAPs.

Still, having heard more than one person lament about recurring drop-outs, I can't convince myself that the problem is solely the router, and that the Airport card is somehow contributing to the delinquency of my wireless connection.