[BasketofPuppies]

No one wants to wear a tie. We wear them because we have to.

They're uncomfortable, expensive and can take multiple attempts to tie before they look "right." (The last one is one of the most common reasons why I can be running late in the morning.)

Why do we wear ties when no one wants to wear one? The easy answer is that a dress shirt and blazer look incomplete without a tie, but that's only because we expect to see a tie with a dress shirt and blazer. If we weren't "required" to wear ties with dress shirts and blazers, a dress shirt and blazer without a tie would look as complete as a dress shirt and blazer with a tie.

So, why are we forced to wear ties?

[mattyb]

Originally Posted by BasketofPuppies 

So, why are we forced to wear ties?

No results found for "why are we forced to wear ties".

Sorry can't help.

[Andrew Stephens]

Because it's right. Why else.

[MacosNerd]

Because you have too. While things have gone more casual in a number of sectors there's still plenty of businesses that require suits/ties etc. Personally I think its a lot easier when I had to wear a suit. I found the opposite to be true to your quandary.

I owned a number of blue suits, white shirts and some conservative ties. I just picked, the shirt, the suit and the tie. They all matched. I did not have to worry about matching or worrying what to wear.

[ghporter]

With a good fitting shirt (and plenty of practice tying them), a tie can be quite comfortable. Most people don't get the neck size of their shirts right, or they buy off the rack by shoulder width and don't worry much about neck size, so they wind up with collars that are either barely big enough or too small. I am a pretty big guy, and (measured correctly) my neck size is 17", but I buy shirts with a 17 1/2" (sometimes 18") neck for comfort. That means that I tend to have a ton of extra fabric around the waist (I ain't a skinny athlete, either!), but it's better than choking when I need to wear a tie. Part of this is because the men's clothing industry thinks that anyone with a neck larger than 15" must be hugely fat, but that's another rant.

Measure your neck at the BOTTOM of your neck, where you can feel that bump on the back of your neck, and keep the tape pretty much parallel to the ground. Then fudge up to the next half inch, maybe full inch. You should be able to fit TWO FINGERS inside your collar with the top button buttoned and not feel tension, let alone like you're choking.

The upside of getting shirts with collars that fit better is that they look much better, whether you're wearing a tie or not.

But we wear ties because it's part of the "uniform" for whatever it is we're doing. Business, formal occasions, etc., all call for some level of dress that reflects the "seriousness" of the event or activity. Costume is everything. Want to spark some excitement? Buy a few bow ties and wear them now and then. If you choose a good style and pattern, you can look anything from extra cool to extremely creative. Just make sure your dress code doesn't specify "necktie" instead of just "tie."

[Dakar the Fourth]

Originally Posted by MacosNerd 

Because you have too.

That's not a valid answer.

[wallinbl]

Tailored shirts are the way to go. It's amazing how much better they fit - no extra fabric anywhere.

[mdc]

I wear a suit sans tie to work everyday.
I see a lot of people here in the city dressed the same way. On the way to work this morning I read an article in TIME about how ties wearing is on the decline.

[Dakar the Fourth]

One day they'll join bowties as a unique fashion statement.

[Atomic Rooster]

Remember people used to wear hats with their suits. Superman did.

Soon we'll be in just undershorts and shoes and socks with those garter thingies. Oh and tee shirts of course.

[jorgem4]

I wore a tie from the second grade all the way to graduation... blaser and dress pants EVERY day...now i absolutetly HATE wearing a tie....fortunatly my work environment (at the office) now is pretty lay back, and we have even started "flip flop fridays" cause I am sick and tiered of the Hawaiian shirts...

[mattyb]

Wearing ties is an environment thing as well. I've found that the Northern Europeans wear ties more often than the Southern Europeans - too hot to wear a tie when its 30°C. Even the 'top' managers in my place aren't wearing ties at the moment.

[BasketofPuppies]

And let me add that ties shouldn't have to potentially take so much time to put on properly.

Some time ago, my father, who used to own a clothing store, told me about zip-on ties. They took only seconds to properly adjust, and unlike clip-on ties, they were indistinguishable from ties that you, well, tie.

My father is convinced that the stigma of the clip-on is the only reason why zip-on ties never caught on.

A few years ago, I brought up the subject of zip-on ties with my dad. It turned out that at least one company still made them, and my dad offered to give me a few.

I would wear them instead of my tie-on ties, but they're ugly--because of their patterns, not because they're zip-ons.

[mattyb]

Not sure if you guys across the pond use the same term, but I've found that you can wear a suit and a Polo shirt and it doesn't look too bad.

[MacosNerd]

Originally Posted by Dakar the Fourth 

That's not a valid answer.

Sure it is, I had to wear a tie when I worked at such and such company. That's probably the most valid answer

The question was Why do we wear ties when no one wants to wear one?
The answer for most of the situations is that because we have to. If I didn't, I'd get fired, that seems like a valid enough reason.

[lavar78]

I like ties.
Full disclosure: I'm not forced to wear one.

[Dakar the Fourth]

Originally Posted by MacosNerd 

Sure it is, I had to wear a tie when I worked at such and such company. That's probably the most valid answer

The question was Why do we wear ties when no one wants to wear one?
The answer for most of the situations is that because we have to. If I didn't, I'd get fired, that seems like a valid enough reason.

I suppose the better term to have used is satisfactory. None of those are satisfactory answers.

[faragbre967]

The reason zip-on ties never caught on is because you have no control over what kind of knot you're using. I use a four-in-one-hand knot most of the time but if I'm going to a more formal event I use a half-windsor. If I feel like being a little goofy I'll use a full-windsor. Plus the stigma of the clip-on is really bad.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by mattyb 

Not sure if you guys across the pond use the same term, but I've found that you can wear a suit and a Polo shirt and it doesn't look too bad.

Some guys can look great (and quite professional) in a polo and suit. Others, not so much. It seems to me that if you're at least relatively trim, it's a good look. If you're built like me (wide shoulders, high waist, not terribly slender) then it takes just the right cut of suit to even approach a decent look with a polo. But a nice polo and good slacks look fine on me...and just about everybody else. Look at Tiger Woods; a serious athlete who wears a polo and slacks all the time. Not that I look like Tiger in that outfit...

[IceEnclosure]

Originally Posted by mattyb 

.. but I've found that you can wear a suit and a Polo shirt and it doesn't look too bad.

Eh, might as well pop your Polo collar too.

Not a fan.


EDIT: dangit, I misread your post. I thought you were said a tie and Polo. I've been awake for an hour already, what the heck!

[mindwaves]

I despise ties. My new job is casual every day. I love it.

[Zeeb]

Ties are the one article of clothing for men that serve absolutely no practical purpose. They don't keep you warm and they don't cover anything indecent.

Still, many professionals believe that ties convey the sense that the man wearing it takes his job seriously and respects the company he works for--which is the dumbest thing ever. If that were the case, every U.S. President in history was a good, hard working public servant and every Enron executive was a decent man with integrity who took their responsibilities seriously.

Now that its been well established that wearing a tie does not magically make you a better employee I say burn those awful, uncomfortable rags from Hell.

[IceEnclosure]

I do half-windsor all the time because I've forgotten how to tie any other. Don't suggest I google it either. Frank Sinatra didn't have google.

[Arkham_c]

Originally Posted by faragbre967 

The reason zip-on ties never caught on is because you have no control over what kind of knot you're using. I use a four-in-one-hand knot most of the time but if I'm going to a more formal event I use a half-windsor. If I feel like being a little goofy I'll use a full-windsor. Plus the stigma of the clip-on is really bad.

I don't know what kind of knot I use. My dad taught me in high school how to tie a tie, and I just replicate what he showed me.
1) Hold the skinny "tail"
2) Wrap the fat "head" around twice clockwise
3) Flip the head up through from behind
4) Tuck the head under the "knot"
5) Straighten and tighten by pulling the "tail"

What kind of knot is that?

[BasketofPuppies]

That's a four-in-hand knot. It's probably the most common way to tie a tie.

[lavar78]

Originally Posted by IceEnclosure 

I do half-windsor all the time because I've forgotten how to tie any other. Don't suggest I google it either. Frank Sinatra didn't have google.

He's dead now. Coincidence?

[Andy8]

Don't own one and won't wear one.

[IceEnclosure]

Originally Posted by lavar78 

He's dead now. Coincidence?

Prolly, yea. : )

[Luca Rescigno]

I'm currently wearing jeans and a t-shirt at my work. I also have a hooded sweatshirt for when the AC gets too cold.

The only way ties die is for people to all collectively agree to stop wearing them. It looks like that's happening - it seems many people who wear suits skip the tie.

You can look good in a suit without a tie.

[Dakar the Fourth]

[Paco500]

I work in the extremely conservative financial district of London and never wear a tie. I'm always in a suit, but never a tie. It's getting to be the norm.

But I kind of hate wearing a suit too. Especially in the summer. Why the F do I have to wear a coat in the summer? But I do.

[mattyb]

Bet you'll never be seen dead in brown shoes though Paco500 !!!

[Paco500]

Originally Posted by mattyb 

Bet you'll never be seen dead in brown shoes though Paco500 !!!

As an American in London- I do stray a bit from the proper uniform (blue, black or grey suit). I have a tan tropic weight silk suit I wear with brown shoes. I do look terribly out of place- but it helps with the heat.

[Luca Rescigno]

Originally Posted by Paco500 

As an American in London- I do stray a bit from the proper uniform (blue, black or grey suit). I have a tan tropic weight silk suit I wear with brown shoes. I do look terribly out of place- but it helps with the heat.

Now all you need are sunglasses and a matching fedora and you can look just like a drug dealer!

[Gankdawg]

Business casual here everyday. For me that means a polo shirt and shorts. Yes, shorts everyday. It's one reason I like my job.

[Randman]

By ADAM GELLER
Associated Press National Writer
NEW YORK (AP) _ They were the best of ties. They were the worst of ties.
Skinny little beatnik ties and mod doublewide ties. Suave and sophisticated Frank Sinatra ties and greedy Gordon Gekko power ties. Bar Mitzvah boy clip-on ties and Jerry Garcia trippin' ties.
And, of course, all those closet doors decked with millions of gifted ties.
But now, comes word that the necktie — that elongated swatch of silk or polyester or rayon whose donning has long marked a male rite of passage while serving no discernible utility — may be fading into the fashion sunset.
The recent decision by the Men's Dress Furnishings Association — the trade group for America's neckwear makers — to shut down has some folks tied up in knots. A calendar crammed with casual Fridays (and Mondays and Thursdays ...) has exacted its last, grim toll, some said.
In an age where some people show up for job interviews in flip-flops, the imminent death of the tie seems plausible.
It's been a good, long time, after all, since America was a nation of necktie-wearers.
Look back at pictures from the Great Depression and you'll see men who put on ties before taking their place on soup lines. The stands at baseball games were once filled with men in ties — even on weekends. In the years after World War II, when employers created thousands of new office jobs, the sidewalks of downtowns across the country were thronged by men whose necks were cloaked in soldierly stripes and solids.
But before we deliver the eulogy for the necktie, consider this:
Men have been wrapping and winding pieces of cloth around their necks for hundreds of years. It's clear that the tie, once the very symbol of the male establishment, is far from the icon it used to be.
Still, there's small comfort for neckwear makers: At least they're not selling fedoras.
And, given the fickleness of fashion and the fact that some occasions still demand a tie, it's probably too soon to write its epitaph.
"You almost want to say, 'poor necktie,' so abused and underappreciated," says Candace Corlett, president of the consulting firm WSL Strategic Retail.
Predictions of the necktie's demise have been circulating for years. In the mid-1990s, designer Gianni Versace offered his vision of male fashion in a coffee-table book titled "Men Without Ties," a sure sign of where things were headed. A bronzed Adonis dashed across its cover dressed in nothing but a few ties, lashed loosely around his waist.
The burgeoning popularity of casual Fridays turned khakis and open collar-shirts into suitable wear for workplaces previously better suited to suits. The dot-com boom filled thousands of instant offices with laid-back twentysomethings who saw no point in lashing something tight around their necks.
But rumors of the tie's death are roughly equivalent to the longtime predictions that the computer would soon turn society paperless. There's a lot of truth to the prognostication, but somehow it hasn't quite turned out that way.
Clearly, the tie business is nothing like the old days. In the early 1970s, when sales peaked, manufacturers sold between 200 million and 250 million ties a year in the U.S. Today annual sales have dropped to about 50 million, according to Lee Terrill, president of the neckwear division of Phillips-Van Heusen Corp., the nation's largest tie maker.
A Gallup poll last year found just 6 percent of men wearing neckties to work each day, down from 10 percent in 2002. More than two-thirds of the men surveyed said they never wear a tie to work, up from 59 percent five years earlier.
But the necktie still has its defenders and devotees, men who invest the kind of affection in their ties that a golf shirt will probably never know.
"A lot of people call me the Tie Guy," says Bob Smith, the outgoing provost and vice chancellor of academic affairs at the University of Arkansas in Fayetteville, Arkansas.
Smith has a collection of more than 400 ties in his closets. They are vital accessories in a job requiring him to deliver many speeches and presentations — more than 700 in the past eight years. Every Smith speech is punctuated with a tie themed to the subject.
A tie with a giraffe on it for a speech about the qualities that make a good supervisor, one who is able to raise his head above the fracas to see the landscape clearly. Another featuring a painting by Charles Rennie Mackintosh of a rose inside a teardrop that he saves for delivering eulogies.
"When I walk into a room, they'll look at my necktie, they'll actually pick it up when I walk in, and say 'Oh, what are you going to talk about today? and I'll say, 'Oh, wait and see.' It actually creates a sense of mystery," Smith says.
Smith's collection, though, pales compared to the more than 1,000 ties owned by Richard Arutunian, a retired Southern California neckwear manufacturer.
Arutunian rejects this talk that the tie has come undone. A tie is singularly irreplaceable, he says, uniquely capable of sending a message about its wearer to women and to his fellow men.
"To me it tells more about the person than even the shoe does," says Arutunian, who long served as official tie historian for the neckwear industry association's predecessor. "Is he trying to impress me? Is he wearing a tie because he has to wear that tie? How is he tying that knot?"
Wearing cloth around the neck stretches back a long way. Some trace the modern tie to the early 1600s when Croatian fighters looped fabric around their necks before battle, captivating the public's imagination.
Hard to believe, but for most of history men were the peacocks of the fashion world, and that included draping their necks in all sorts of status symbols, from waterfall cloths to cravats, says Paula Baxter, who curated an exhibit that closed last year at the New York Public Library on the rakish history of men's wear.
"Even the Puritans. They would wear lace collars," she says.
The era of the male dandy ended in the late 19th century, when the uniformity of the tailored suit took over. In the early 1920s, neckwear makers began cutting cloth on the bias — diagonally, at an angle to the weave — and the modern tie was born. It found a welcome home on the necks of the expanding ranks of white-collar workers.
By the 1960s, 600 companies made ties in the U.S., mostly smaller, regional manufacturers. They banded together in a professional association that lobbied on their behalf.
Those days are long past.
"The number you have dialed is not in service at this time," a recording greeted callers to the New York offices of the Dress Furnishings Association this week. "Please check the area code and number and dial your call again."
Don't bother.
Today there are only about two dozen companies making ties in the U.S., and the business is dominated by huge firms. Many of the ties American men wear are made overseas. It didn't seem to make any sense to keep running an association built for an industry so fundamentally different from what it used to be, says Terrill, the neckwear business executive and a member of the association's board.
"We didn't think anybody would notice," he says, of the decision to close.
Instead, the association's closure has been greeted as confirmation that the tie is done.
The suggestion alarms Terrill, who says that sales have steadied and ties are poised to make a modest comeback.
There are still a few islands of tie-wearers. Lawyers and folks in finance and insurance work in offices where suits and tie remain the badges of professionalism.
"When you wear a tie it still says ... you're dressed for the occasion," says Amy Klaris, a retail strategist at consulting firm Kurt Salmon Associates.
Today, with the economy softening, men need to market themselves and a big part of that is the way they dress. That will send the pendulum swinging, albeit subtly, back to the suit and tie, Terrill says.
In the past 10 or 15 years, as dress codes loosened, men who'd always worn ties "were making a statement. I'm not going to wear a tie because I don't have to wear a tie," Terrill says. "But now so many people don't wear a tie, that it's a statement to wear one."
That sounds like wishful thinking to Corlett, the consultant. She agrees that sales of ties have leveled off, but a comeback is unlikely.
"I think it's about as untrue as women returning to hosiery. Once you free the body of the tie and the hose, yeah, you may go back to it occasionally to make a statement or on dress-up day, but nobody willingly goes back to wearing a tie five days a week," she says.
For those waiting to see if men will once again embrace the constriction that comes with ties, she suggests looking to examples in women's fashion.
"You know," she says, "corsets never came back."

[mattyb]

Originally Posted by Paco500 

As an American in London- I do stray a bit from the proper uniform (blue, black or grey suit). I have a tan tropic weight silk suit I wear with brown shoes. I do look terribly out of place- but it helps with the heat.

The boys from Eton, Harrow etc etc must really hate it. You in an American company?

[paul w]

Though I wear a suit like 3 times a year, the tie is a (fun) part of the experience.

However, the times I had to wear ties on a daily basis it got old fast.

[scaught]

I've worn a tie daily for years. I don't really even think about it. I think they look nice. A man should know how to tie his own tie properly.

[BigBadWolf]

You people are very lucky, most of the time, my job requires me to wear bow ties. I'm a classical musician and 90% of my work is formal (white tie) and semi-formal (black tie). Although I do occasionally do afternoon shows, so I do have to wear normal ties as well. But, I absolutely hate having to tie my bow ties and cannot bring myself to buy a pre-tied one.

[Randman]

[Visnaut]

A nice suit, shirt, and tie can make any man look like money. I actually like dressing up in a nice suit. But that has a lot to do with the fact that I work at an office where the attire is business casual, and even wearing anything other than jeans or khakis is enough to raise eyebrows.

[Randman]

If you wear a tie often, you dislike it.
If you don't wear a tie often, you like it from time to time.

[SpaceMonkey]

Originally Posted by BasketofPuppies

Why do we wear ties when no one wants to wear one? The easy answer is that a dress shirt and blazer look incomplete without a tie, but that's only because we expect to see a tie with a dress shirt and blazer. If we weren't "required" to wear ties with dress shirts and blazers, a dress shirt and blazer without a tie would look as complete as a dress shirt and blazer with a tie.

Blazers? Yes. (Caveat: with some particular shirts? No.) However, a suit always looks incomplete without a tie, to me.

[Paco500]

Originally Posted by mattyb 

The boys from Eton, Harrow etc etc must really hate it. You in an American company?

Yep. But I'm the only American in the office. There is an Australian who strays from the code as well however.

[Paco500]

Originally Posted by Luca Rescigno 

Now all you need are sunglasses and a matching fedora and you can look just like a drug dealer!

It's not that kind of silk suit. It looks like cotton- not shiny at all. But the silk keeps one cooler.

[coreythemagnificent46]

I had the unpleasurable experience of a Bowtie tonight.. and the first time in a tuxedo. I DJ and the wedding tonight was formal.. took me 30 mins to figure out how to just tie the bowtie and another 25 to get into the tux.. Bowties make you feel like your being choked.. I hate them.. Thats my rant.

[IceEnclosure]

Originally Posted by scaught 

I've worn a tie daily for years. I don't really even think about it. I think they look nice. A man should know how to tie his own tie properly.

[red rocket]

I like wearing suits and ties. Not all the time, and not the ill-fitting kind off the rack, that never looks right to me, but it feels like the correct type of uniform for certain occasions. Makes me feel civilised, I guess.

No problems with tying ties, either. Like ghporter mentioned, a well-tailored shirt and practice help.

[vmarks]

in the old days if you strayed from the code in the slightest, they'd ask if you were on vacation that day. My current employment only requires a tie when I go into the office or appear on video conference.

I have a suit that was made for me in HK and am thinking about ringing them up and asking for shirts.