[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Art Vandelay 

The same as they have been. Sorry Kevin, looks like those of us that said they won't be changing it this late in the game were right.

Um, the only difference in what we knew then, and what we know NOW is release date. I don't see how you get Release date known = no new GUI. We wont know what GUI it has till Steve is announcing it. And expect a big to do about it.

I am not saying it will def be either way. However, it would be a bad move on Apple's part to still have Aqua elements in a GUI where they simply do not fit. As other people in here, and other places have pointed out. I mean they have even gotten rid of Aqua off their web pages. Why would they remove all the aqua buttons, and replace them with ones like this

If their OS was still using them? (Something no one here has yet to answer...)

I surely hope they don't plan to make their OS look dated and inconsistent. And by not updating it, they will. As a Mac user, I am hoping they make things right.

If they don't, I guess it's up to the user to do so. Yet again..

So either Apple will change it to match, or they are going to have an Frankestein of a OS. With a web page that doesn't match.

As others have pointed out, the only thing that makes sense is that they will show off a different look near the end. But then again Apple has had a recent history of NOT making sense. They also have a history of showing off stuff at the last minute that no one knew about.

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

Also: "Adaptive Video Analyzation"? What did English do to you, Apple?

That's not as bad as "Windowed Time Facility", a feature that's been in Shark since Tiger at least.

[bootcamp78]

Hi everyone.
I bought an iMac intel core 2 duo last week in a rush, not being aware that Leopard was due out this month. It seems that my iMac will come with Tiger Op.System, and I will still have the option to either return it when in comes (23-24th october) or upgrading to Leopard. So it would really be helpful if anyone knows the advantages/disadvantages of buying an iMac with Leopard uploaded or upgrading??? This would really be of help to me. Thank you very much. MK

[Big Mac]

Once agian, there is no difference between an Erase and Install of Leopard yourself when it comes out versus getting it installed from the factory.

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by Kevin 

I am not sure besson was complaining in THIS thread about the skin talk. Just his.

Actually, he was - analogika actually pointed out to him a few pages ago that those with the ability to answer his questions would not have the freedom to do so, and oddly enough, no one yelled at him for it.

[mdc]

All the images on Apple's Finder page still have Aqua elements for the scrollbars.
After the first WWDC Apple showed Spaces and Time Machine. Back then Finder was still Brushed Metal. The website's screenshots reflected this change.
The next WWDC they showed off the rest of the features. The Dock had changed and everything was Unified. The screenshots were changed to show the Unified GUI.

Unless I missed it, no one has mentioned for sure what the build number of next week's 10.5 will be. For all we know Apple released the last one to developers, sorted out that issue with PowerPCs and Archive-and-Install and any other large bugs.
I guess there would be no reason to release another build to developers if all they do is replace GUI image files.

I hope they get either make 10.5's scrollbars like iTunes, or make iTunes' scrollbars like 10.5. Having two types of scrollbars kills me.

[Art Vandelay]

Originally Posted by Kevin 

Um, the only difference in what we knew then, and what we know NOW is release date. I don't see how you get Release date known = no new GUI. We wont know what GUI it has till Steve is announcing it. And expect a big to do about it.

Please... They have updated all their screenshots on apple.com. Do you seriously believe that they are still hiding this secret GUI and on 10/26 they're going to redo their Leopard site again with the new look? What you see on the Leopard website is what you're going to get.

There are no more secret features, no last minute surprises. Additionally, there is no more disclaimer on their site saying features/appearance may change. In the litigious society we live in, they'd probably be sued by some a**hat for changing the appearance from what is represented on their site and Apple legal knows that, hence the disclaimers. Hell, there's probably someone suing them right now for changing the education discount for Leopard.

[besson3c]

I bet the big secret that Apple will unveil is that the dock will be upside down, and that there is no way to change this...

[mdc]

What does QuickTime look like on 10.5?
Does it still have borders?

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Art Vandelay 

Hell, there's probably someone suing them right now for changing the education discount for Leopard.

At least it didn't get cheaper. That would really be grounds for a lawsuit.

[besson3c]

Going over the 300 feature list now... Sorry, I don't count 6 new screensavers as 6 new features... Screensavers are barely 1 feature, let alone 6

[CharlesS]

There are other nice new features, tiny little things but still nice touches, that aren't on that list.

The feature list doesn't take general refinement of the OS into account.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by Art Vandelay 

Please... They have updated all their screenshots on apple.com. Do you seriously believe that they are still hiding this secret GUI and on 10/26 they're going to redo their Leopard site again with the new look? What you see on the Leopard website is what you're going to get.

I know what a joke to think they are going to ship something in the next 10 days that is totally different that everything the developers saw and is in all the advertising.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

There are other nice new features, tiny little things but still nice touches, that aren't on that list.

The feature list doesn't take general refinement of the OS into account.

Yeah, some features are hard to put into words, and some have no marketing pull at all (e.g. being able to manage folder subscriptions in Mail)

[TETENAL]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

I know what a joke to think they are going to ship something in the next 10 days that is totally different that everything the developers saw and is in all the advertising.

All the evidence points towards Kevin being right here:

• Leopard has the unified look which is a flatter look with a simple gradient
• iTunes has the new scrollbars and flat gradient buttons in the store
• iLife has the new scrollbars
• The new folder icons colour matches the colour of the new scrollbar, but not that of the old one.
• Apple's web site has been updated to flatter buttons with a simple gradient

The bulbous glossy Aqua scrollbar sticks out like a sore thumb. Apple would never allow such a UI inconsistency in the final Leopard now that they are up to finally fixing it.

[Big Mac]

No change. Not at this point. This is almost as ridiculous as the 4K78 GM debate.

[besson3c]

Not to nitpick, but are cosmetic UI differences actually UI inconsistencies? I think of UI inconsistencies as more behavioral than cosmetic.

[Big Mac]

UI refers to the look (appearance) and feel (behavior) of the software the user interacts with.

[MartiNZ]

Ahh well, happily all they needed was a show of disbelief from me and they went and announced it while I slept. And the NZ online store is suggesting $199 as the price, which deals with another of my earlier doubts.

As for the 300 changes, it often feels like they're clutching at straws there, not to mention feeling like they're neglecting parts of the OS rather a lot - 2 listed changes in Address Book, 3 for Dashboard, which could really use the help (wonder if they've fixed the iTunes widget bug), 2 under Networking, and they didn't even list the new Network Utility icon!!

I would have loved to have seen, "Improved performance with Microsoft Exchange Servers" under Mail, or even something slightly more descriptive, rather than "Now with at least 28% more bloat and some stolen iCal features". Easy, reliable MSN messenger support in iChat would have been a nice one to see too, especially as that app lists rather a lot of changes. At least you can now set the default IM app ... from within iChat; not that I've ever tried to do that, but it's still amusing and following a trend .

Anyway, maybe they'll address those concerns now that I've put them in writing , but there's still a lot to be looking forward to, and not too much waiting! And with features like spring-loaded dock, tabbed chats and terminal windows, and icon view in open/save dialogs, maybe they're holding out on tabs in Finder for 10.6 hmmm.

[Big Mac]

The marketing department feels it's necessary to list 300 new features with every milestone release.

[Art Vandelay]

Originally Posted by Kevin 

Why would they remove all the aqua buttons, and replace them with ones like this

If their OS was still using them? (Something no one here has yet to answer...)

They've had different looking buttons on their websites for many years now. Just because they've changed a look of a button, it doesn't mean they're changing it in OS X. If that was the case, we'd have had a lot of GUI changes in OS X over the years.

Here's a collection of what I've found in a couple of minutes on apple.com.

[Art Vandelay]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

The marketing department feels it's necessary to list 300 new features with every milestone release.

It was 200 features with Panther and Tiger. They're outdoing themselves with Leopard's 300 new features.

[Art Vandelay]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

No change. Not at this point. This is almost as ridiculous as the 4K78 GM debate.

Agreed!

[MartiNZ]

Originally Posted by Art Vandelay 

It was 200 features with Panther and Tiger. They're outdoing themselves with Leopard's 300 new features.

I guess they had to with the extra year and then 5-month delay ... they had to have something to work on, and obviously it wasn't going to be scrollbars !

[0157988944]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

I bet the big secret that Apple will unveil is that the dock will be upside down, and that there is no way to change this...

Haha I don't know why, but I really laughed at that.

I still think there might be hope for new scrollbars.

Scenario A) The screenshots were made from 9A559, because it would take a bit of time to make all these images. Then the "internal GM Build" could have the new scrollbars.

Scenario B) They switch up the scroll-bars right before the GM is declared, as a little Easter Egg for folks.

I find Scenario A to be likely... I doubt they made all those screenshots within the last 3 days.

[.Neo]

Originally Posted by Horsepoo!!! 

Everyone that wanted to see this thing out as soon as possible will be back in this forum on the 26th saying how Leopard is full of bugs and then go into a diatribe about incomplete features and how they think Mail and Preview buttons look ghey. Mark my words (and by mark my words I mean push cmd-D.)

I really hope the Mac OS X Leopard GM version is better than Tiger was at that stage. What a tragedy back then.

[0157988944]

I like this: Apple - Mac OS X Leopard - Features - 300+ New Features

That's all the 300 New Features.

YES! Why didn't they advertise this more?

UI Recording and Playback
Add even more capabilities to your workflows. Use a new action called Watch Me Do that lets you record a user action (like pressing a button or controlling an application without built-in Automator support) and replay as an action in a workflow.

I'll actaully use Automator now!

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by mdc 

All the images on Apple's Finder page still have Aqua elements for the scrollbars.

And its been that way for months.

I hope they get either make 10.5's scrollbars like iTunes, or make iTunes' scrollbars like 10.5. Having two types of scrollbars kills me.

Agreed.

Originally Posted by Art Vandelay 

Please... They have updated all their screenshots on apple.com.

Really? I see a lot of the same.

Do you seriously believe that they are still hiding this secret GUI and on 10/26 they're going to redo their Leopard site again with the new look? What you see on the Leopard website is what you're going to get.

Again I am not stating FACTUAL either way. Because only a handful of people really know. And they don't post at this forum. So anyone making definitive statements isn't being too honest. I am saying I HOPE Apple gets their GUI together, and it's not a mess. mdc is hoping for the same thing.

Again no one knows.

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

I know what a joke to think they are going to ship something in the next 10 days that is totally different that everything the developers saw and is in all the advertising.

Yeah Apple never springs surprises and unveils things onto it's customers without it's customers knowing it first. That never happens. Ever.

Originally Posted by TETENAL 

All the evidence points towards Kevin being right here:

• Leopard has the unified look which is a flatter look with a simple gradient
• iTunes has the new scrollbars and flat gradient buttons in the store
• iLife has the new scrollbars
• The new folder icons colour matches the colour of the new scrollbar, but not that of the old one.
• Apple's web site has been updated to flatter buttons with a simple gradient

The bulbous glossy Aqua scrollbar sticks out like a sore thumb. Apple would never allow such a UI inconsistency in the final Leopard now that they are up to finally fixing it.

Thank you Tetenal. And you are right on. At least I'd HOPE Apple wouldn't allow such an horrible GUI choice to be made.

Originally Posted by Art Vandelay 

They've had different looking buttons on their websites for many years now. Just because they've changed a look of a button, it doesn't mean they're changing it in OS X. If that was the case, we'd have had a lot of GUI changes in OS X over the years.

That doesn't change the fact that AQUA is completely missing from those buttons EXCEPT for one, in the ADC page that you managed to dig up. Alll the rest of the buttons you posted DO have the new "unified" look

If I am wrong, I and Apple does ship a Unified GUI then I will admit I am wrong.

But I wonder how many of you will apologize to me if I am not? I am doubting a few if any.

[Horsepoo!!!]

Originally Posted by .Neo 

I really hope the Mac OS X Leopard GM version is better than Tiger was at that stage. What a tragedy back then.

I really hope so too. The last thing Apple needs after being 6+ months late with Leopard is to have the media saying how buggy Leopard is after having more than 6 months to try to squash them. People will already complain that some apps break under Leopard...I just hope that's the only thing we'll hear.

When I hear people saying that Spotlight is broken under 10.4 and that they can't find things or that the Spotlight menu doesn't pop up when they click the magnifying glass in the top right corner, I feel so sad for Apple...Spotlight was a big 10.4 feature. And people hate Spotlight because of all the problems it brought and how some disks never got indexed or how some disks that shouldn't be indexed are indexed.

If the Spotlight menu disappearing-act bug isn't fixed in 10.5 (yes, it still somehow exists under 10.5 since it's still not a real menu and acts as a window that gets tossed around by Exposé), people that hated Spotlight in 10.4 will give up on it *permanently* in 10.5.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

UI refers to the look (appearance) and feel (behavior) of the software the user interacts with.

From: User interface - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The user interface (or Human Machine Interface) is the aggregate of means by which people (the users) interact with a particular machine, device, computer program or other complex tool (the system). The user interface provides means of:

* Input, allowing the users to manipulate a system
* Output, allowing the system to produce the effects of the users' manipulation.

I think what you guys are talking about is "user experience", not "user interface"

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Horsepoo!!! 

If the Spotlight menu disappearing-act bug isn't fixed in 10.5 (yes, it still somehow exists under 10.5 since it's still not a real menu and acts as a window that gets tossed around by Exposé), people that hated Spotlight in 10.4 will give up on it *permanently* in 10.5.

I never use the menu. I always have the "find file" like window open to do such searches. I like it better than way. It's sure a hell of a lot better than Sherlock or find file.

[Art Vandelay]

Originally Posted by Kevin 

Really? I see a lot of the same.

For someone that likes attention to detail, you seem to have missed a big one. All the screenshots are new. The previous ones had the grass desktop, now they have the aurora desktop.

Originally Posted by Kevin 

That doesn't change the fact that AQUA is completely missing from those buttons EXCEPT for one, in the ADC page that you managed to dig up. Alll the rest of the buttons you posted DO have the new "unified" look

The rest are unified? They don't look "unified" to me. They don't share a common look other than that they aren't Aqua. Some have gradients, some have embossed text, some are flat. That doesn't seem too "unified" to me.

My point, however, is that they've had different style buttons for years and are constantly changing them. Just because they've changed buttons again, it does not prove that they will in the OS too.

Originally Posted by Kevin 

If I am wrong, I and Apple does ship a Unified GUI then I will admit I am wrong.

But I wonder how many of you will apologize to me if I am not? I am doubting a few if any.

I will be the first to apologize if I'm wrong. Of course, I'm not though.

[.Neo]

My main gripe with Spotlight is, and specifically the Spotlight Menu, that you can't disable certain file types. I really don't want to see all my .plist files in the Spotlight Menu. When dragging the Preferences directory to the privacy list it won't show up in the "normal" Finder search either.

Really annoying.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Art Vandelay 

I will be the first to apologize if I'm wrong. Of course, I'm not though.

If I am wrong, I can say I never said definite either way. I said that is what I think Apple SHOULD DO. As others have pointed out. The two GUIs don't mesh. If Apple goes onto release a Frankenstein of a OS then that will look bad on Apple more so than I. If Apple ships 10.5 how it looks now. It's sending a clear message to it's customers that it simply wasn't finished.

However, If I am right, you making such definite statements wont give you any wiggle room at all.

That is why it's always good to be careful how you word things.

They might come back to bite you on the butt.

[brassplayersrock²]

has anyone else noticed this?

"DVD Player requires a 1.6GHz processor or faster for improved de-interlacing."
Apple - Mac OS X Leopard - Technical Specs

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by brassplayersrock² 

has anyone else noticed this?

"DVD Player requires a 1.6GHz processor or faster for improved de-interlacing."
Apple - Mac OS X Leopard - Technical Specs

What about it?

[brassplayersrock²]

some people are still using macs with less than that. will dvd playback just be crummy or is the improved de-interlacing only in effect if the machine has the right specs?

[Kevin]

Good article.

Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard interface | Veerle's blog

Good comments too.

LOTS of people saying the SAME thing. Apple would be STUPID not to listen. This is the 4-6th article I have posted with a bunch of people basically saying the same things I am. Just in case this does come to pass, I don't want anyone thinking I am trying to say I "prophesied" it like other people have

Just lots of people agree on the most common sense of it all. It's not that amazing.

Another

The Life and Death of Aqua in Apple Software and Mac OS X

I mourn the death of Aqua. It's become fairly obvious that the life of Mac OS X will continue without it - Aqua is slowly dwindling out of Apple's programs and OS X.

The iPhone doesn't have single trace of Aqua in it! And all of the Leopard betas for the few last months use the currently unnamed systemwide look of iTunes.

I will miss Aqua and will enjoy using it on Tiger on my iMac G4/700 MHz, which is apparently going to be unsupported under Leopard, which "requires" an 800 MHz G4 or better (another rant).

Good-bye, Aqua, I hope to see you in another life.

So for those of you that think nothing will change. You still think they are gonna give iTunes and all their other apps different scroll bars than the rest of the OS?

Really?

Another

PhillRyu.com - Where We're Going, We Don't Need Roads*. Or Aqua.

Rest in peace Aqua, as we knew you. This fall, you'll be experiencing the beginnings of something new. Aqua's successor.

It seems like a lot of people are tending to agree with me. Aqua is dead.

And the last but not least..

AquaLookAndFeel no more in Leopard?

This is what it will probably look like.

[Chuckit]

Surely it's just an option or they would just say "DVD Player requires 1.6 GHz or higher."

[Art Vandelay]

Originally Posted by brassplayersrock² 

some people are still using macs with less than that. will dvd playback just be crummy or is the improved de-interlacing only in effect if the machine has the right specs?

The latter.

[Art Vandelay]

Originally Posted by Kevin 

However, If I am right, you making such definite statements wont give you any wiggle room at all.

That is why it's always good to be careful how you word things.

They might come back to bite you on the butt.

I can handle it.

[eddie2369]

been waiting to buy the new imac with the new OS X
do I have to wait till 26th October to place my order, so that the new leopard will be pre-installed?

[brassplayersrock²]

thanks Art

[Horsepoo!!!]

Originally Posted by .Neo 

My main gripe with Spotlight is, and specifically the Spotlight Menu, that you can't disable certain file types. I really don't want to see all my .plist files in the Spotlight Menu. When dragging the Preferences directory to the privacy list it won't show up in the "normal" Finder search either.

Really annoying.

I'm pretty sure Leopard doesn't look inside .plists or any system-related files from the Spotlight unless you actually search for something and it so happens to be the name of the .plist. And even in the Finder, you have to specifically tell it to look for system files if you want to include things such as .plists, application prefs, etc.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by eddie2369 

been waiting to buy the new imac with the new OS X
do I have to wait till 26th October to place my order, so that the new leopard will be pre-installed?

It probably won't be preinstalled until a while after the 26th. You can get a free upgrade if you buy now, though.

[mdc]

Originally Posted by Kevin 

The iPhone doesn't have single trace of Aqua in it! And all of the Leopard betas for the few last months use the currently unnamed systemwide look of iTunes.

The one Aqua looking thing that I've noticed in the iPhone is that it has the same Aqua loading address that Safari does.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by mdc 

The one Aqua looking thing that I've noticed in the iPhone is that it has the same Aqua loading address that Safari does.

I wouldn't really call that "Aqua" as it's just a gradient. (I changed the resource in my Safari to match the graphite theme)

Either way I hope Apple does something. Calling what 10.5 looks like now "Unified" is a joke.

[eddie2369]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

It probably won't be preinstalled until a while after the 26th. You can get a free upgrade if you buy now, though.

Thanks for the reply.
The reason why I'm waiting to buy before the end of the month is because of the free ipod offer.
If it wont be preinstalled for a while then I will get it before november.

[TETENAL]

Originally Posted by Kevin 

Calling what 10.5 looks like now "Unified" is a joke.

Apple never called any UI-style "unified". The toolbar is called "unified" because it unifies the toolbar with the titlebar of the window, without the separator line inbetween.

[MindFad]

Hey, are these button in the Time Machine preference pane still in place in the latest builds?







lol