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shinykaro · Jan 18, 2008, 09:42 AM

I saw this conversation on MacRumors and thought I'd bring it here.

Do you guys think current MB and MBP models have multi-touch capable trackpads that are only waiting for a software update to activate the capability?

This is sort of wishful thinking here because I'm buying a MacBook next week (can't wait any longer) and hoping that Apple has already given us the right hardware and is waiting for the right moment to turn on the feature. So is this possible? Plausible?

macintologist · Jan 18, 2008, 10:14 AM

I think so because 3rd party software enables all sorts of tricks on the trackpad.

shinykaro · Jan 18, 2008, 10:22 AM

So now the second half of the question: is it plausible? Do you think Steve Jobs would give us that on currently available models or make it a selling point for the next update?

Nodnarb · Jan 18, 2008, 12:21 PM

No i don't think it will become available through a software update

C.A.T.S. CEO · Jan 18, 2008, 12:25 PM

Who knows, if it is just software then it most likely will come with the 10.5.2 update.

hwojtek · Jan 18, 2008, 02:12 PM

I doubt if the Macbook Air runs a version of Leopard different from the Leopard you can buy in any Apple Store or wherever. I'm pretty sure one can install a Leopard bought a few weeks ago on an MBA and all he multitouch features will be there.

Or not? Maybe it's time to take a look deep into the .plist's of an Leopard installation in order to check if the OS preinstalled on the MBA is really the same OS we can buy?

ibook_steve · Jan 18, 2008, 02:44 PM

Originally Posted by hwojtek

I doubt if the Macbook Air runs a version of Leopard different from the Leopard you can buy in any Apple Store or wherever. I'm pretty sure one can install a Leopard bought a few weeks ago on an MBA and all he multitouch features will be there.

Or not? Maybe it's time to take a look deep into the .plist's of an Leopard installation in order to check if the OS preinstalled on the MBA is really the same OS we can buy?

No. Every time Apple releases a new machine, the OS that comes with that machine is a custom build. The retail version of the OS will not boot newer machines because of the custom features of the machine. Later builds after the machine is released will boot and include the custom features. This was a big issue with Tiger because Apple never released an Intel-native retail release of Tiger, meaning if you didn't have the restore disks that came with your Intel Mac, you were screwed if you needed to reinstall the OS.

Steve

hwojtek · Jan 18, 2008, 03:07 PM

AFAIK the customization for the Tiger (don't know about other OS's though) was merely a "badMachines" entry in /System/Installation/Packages/OSInstall.mpkg/Contents/OSInstall.dist file. If someone wanted to void the license, this entry could have been zeroed out, thus allowing installation on any machine (people got the Tiger working on their non-firewire G3's long before XPostFacto was able to).

I think you're right in the following sense:
- the MBA runs a "regular" Leopard + some additions.
- If the MBA owner wants to install a box version of Leopard, it will run and download the necessary customizations via Software Update.

And vice versa: if the Software Restore DVD shipped with the MBA would have been tampered with and the Leopard was installed off this DVD to any machine other than an MBA, it would have given the very same outcome as installing Leopard off the original "box" DVD.

Since the choice of the updates, extras etc that are delivered by Software Update is based on system status that is being stored in numerous .plists, I am pretty sure we are still to hear about a hacker who'd patch a regular Leopard OS to make the Software Update application download and install the MBA-specific drivers and extras.

If a non-MBA system would be able to boot with this MBA-specific software is a totally different story though...

Eug · Jan 18, 2008, 03:54 PM

Would the drivers necessarily even work? It could very well be slightly different hardware in the new trackpads.

We'll get 3rd party software to enable something similar, I'm sure.

We got that for trackpad scrolling on the iBook for instance.

kerosen · Jan 20, 2008, 10:09 AM

Two fingers trackpad scrolling on my macbook works fine. So I assume that it is only a matter of software to get all the nice trackpad features from MBA. Multi-finger trackpad is already here, on our present MBs so why not adding new functionalities for that?

slpdLoad · Jan 20, 2008, 04:58 PM

The update will cost $20.

hwojtek · Jan 21, 2008, 04:08 AM

Source?

PaperNotes · Jan 21, 2008, 07:14 AM

Not a chance.

slpdLoad · Jan 21, 2008, 01:15 PM

I was joking.

AppleJockey · Jan 21, 2008, 01:25 PM

so do we know if this feature is hardware or software related yet?

PaperNotes · Jan 21, 2008, 01:31 PM

Originally Posted by AppleJockey

so do we know if this feature is hardware or software related yet?

Both. It's not going to work on current gen anything because our touchpads can't detect more than two touch points. There could ways to make hacks to be able to do certain things with two fingers except that Leopard makes haxies very hard or impossible to code.

kerosen · Jan 21, 2008, 02:33 PM

Two touch points are OK ! Then why not using two fingers to increase/decrease fonts and to rotate pictures like in the MBA presentation?

hwojtek · Jan 21, 2008, 05:08 PM

I think it may be because the "current" (read: outdated as of Jan. 15th 2008) touchpads don't detect two-finger movement other than vertical and/or horizontal.

ibook_steve · Jan 21, 2008, 05:22 PM

Originally Posted by hwojtek

I think it may be because the "current" (read: outdated as of Jan. 15th 2008) touchpads don't detect two-finger movement other than vertical and/or horizontal.

No offense, but what other type of movement on a trackpad is there?

Steve

hwojtek · Jan 22, 2008, 04:23 AM

On the multitouch trackpad you've got circular gestures (while rotating a photo). Or two simultaneous diagonal gestures in different directions (zoom in/zoom out). I think, while it is fairly easy to atomize such gestures into millions of up/down/right/left "microsteps", it would be quite hard for software to make it appear as smooth and instant as using the multitouch hardware.
Simply said, it is quite possible the outgoing hardware may not support hardware tracking of such strokes.

analogika · Jan 22, 2008, 05:36 AM

But we already have diagonal scrolling, for example, which is quite smooth and works fine and with great detail even when only one finger is moving.

PaperNotes · Jan 22, 2008, 05:48 AM

The most you could wish for is a 2 finger limited haxie and that's near impossible with Leopard.

Stizo99 · Jan 22, 2008, 02:15 PM

Here's an article I happened to stumble across about new MBP's. Multi-touch trackpad is highly likely and will probably be a hardware issue since it mentions the "oversized trackpad" rather than a simple firmware update. It also mentions a blurb on implementing the new 2.5/2.6Ghz Penryn-based C2D's.

AppleInsider | Next-gen Apple MacBook Pros to gain multi-touch trackpad