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The most pointless car ever? (Page 3)
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Goldfinger
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Aug 28, 2010, 05:43 AM
 
Originally Posted by imitchellg5 View Post
Besides being an Audi A8 with a skin built by Volkswagen? They're both in the executive cruiser class. Pricing is the only major differentiation, but with similar options, (from what I can tell of the 2009 A8 vs 2010 Phaeton), they're within about £1,000 of each other. The Volkswagen simply doesn't have the myriad of powertrain options and wheelbase options that the A8 does.
A. Audis are ugly. That's why. And he also used to own two Audis in the 90ies. A V8 and a 100 Avant. They were both horribly unreliable cars. That's the other big reason. (sure, Audis are much better now but it's all about perception)

B. It's NOT based on the Audi A8. That's a common mistake. It shares its platform with the Bentley Continental GT and Continental Flying Spur. It shares the gearbox and engines with the Audi A8 (and lots of other VAG cars including the Bentleys so that's not really relevant). So it's not an A8 with a VW skin. It's more a Bentley with a VW skin. It's also made next to the Bentleys in the Glass Factory in Dresden.
( Last edited by Goldfinger; Aug 28, 2010 at 05:51 AM. )

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Aug 28, 2010, 06:34 AM
 
Originally Posted by Goldfinger View Post
It's also made next to the Bentleys in the Glass Factory in Dresden.
/considers a rant about how they're not proper Bentleys if they're not made in Crewe.
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Goldfinger
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Aug 28, 2010, 06:42 AM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
/considers a rant about how they're not proper Bentleys if they're not made in Crewe.
Heh. Thats's a whole other discussion

The Conti Flying Spur is made in Crewe though. The Conti GT in Dresden.

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Aug 28, 2010, 08:32 AM
 
Originally Posted by Face Ache View Post
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downinflames68
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Aug 28, 2010, 01:55 PM
 
Originally Posted by Goldfinger View Post
(sure, Audis are much better now but it's all about perception)
     
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Aug 28, 2010, 02:47 PM
 
Originally Posted by Goldfinger View Post
A. Audis are ugly.
Wait, you think the Phaeton is a nice car, and the A8 is ugly ?

Sorry, dude, FAIL.

-t
     
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Aug 28, 2010, 02:57 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
Wait, you think the Phaeton is a nice car, and the A8 is ugly ?

Sorry, dude, FAIL.

-t
I think you mistake him for his father.

They're easy to tell apart, really:

     
parsley
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Aug 28, 2010, 05:40 PM
 
B. It's NOT based on the Audi A8. That's a common mistake. It shares its platform with the Bentley Continental GT and Continental Flying Spur. It shares the gearbox and engines with the Audi A8 (and lots of other VAG cars including the Bentleys so that's not really relevant). So it's not an A8 with a VW skin. It's more a Bentley with a VW skin. It's also made next to the Bentleys in the Glass Factory in Dresden.
It's all about perception. (you said it!) Look, that old Moto rokr phone was as iTunes capable as any iPod, didn't make the Moto brand anything better nor did move it upmarket. I think I know one or two big saloon cars that depreciate more than the VW Phaeton, but they are French.

Nobody is going to think about Bentley when staring to a Volkswagen. Not even had his brain came from Mattel. Plain and simple.
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imitchellg5
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Aug 28, 2010, 06:20 PM
 
Originally Posted by Goldfinger View Post
A. Audis are ugly. That's why. And he also used to own two Audis in the 90ies. A V8 and a 100 Avant. They were both horribly unreliable cars. That's the other big reason. (sure, Audis are much better now but it's all about perception)

B. It's NOT based on the Audi A8. That's a common mistake. It shares its platform with the Bentley Continental GT and Continental Flying Spur. It shares the gearbox and engines with the Audi A8 (and lots of other VAG cars including the Bentleys so that's not really relevant). So it's not an A8 with a VW skin. It's more a Bentley with a VW skin. It's also made next to the Bentleys in the Glass Factory in Dresden.
No, sorry, it IS based on the same platform, which you are correct in saying that it's shared with the Continental. It's known as the Volkswagen Group D platform.
     
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Aug 28, 2010, 06:42 PM
 
Originally Posted by parsley View Post
It's all about perception. (you said it!) Look, that old Moto rokr phone was as iTunes capable as any iPod, didn't make the Moto brand anything better nor did move it upmarket. I think I know one or two big saloon cars that depreciate more than the VW Phaeton, but they are French.

Nobody is going to think about Bentley when staring to a Volkswagen. Not even had his brain came from Mattel. Plain and simple.
I was just correcting him and saying that it's not based on the A8 platform but on the Bentley Conti platform. No more, no less. I never said that it was a better car because of that. I couldn't care less on which platform it was built. All I know is that it's a damn good car.

And yeah its depreciation is horrible, but, again, that doens't make it a bad car.

Originally Posted by turtle777
Wait, you think the Phaeton is a nice car, and the A8 is ugly ?

Sorry, dude, FAIL.

-t
I was talking about my father. But yes I share his opinion. I think Audi has the most boring car lineup out there. They all look exactly the same and don't drive really well either. They lack soul (for the record: so does the VW). But bickering about preferences is quite pointless, don't you think ? I don't think your opinion is "fail" either.

And Rob, I don't know what you mean with the LOL pic. Audis are the best thing out there now that you drive one ? Is that what you meant ?

Originally Posted by imitchellg5
No, sorry, it IS based on the same platform, which you are correct in saying that it's shared with the Continental. It's known as the Volkswagen Group D platform.
No. The Conti and Phaeton platform is the (steel) D1 platform. The A8 is on the aluminium D3 platform (the new one is on the D4 new platform). They only share engines and transmission. Otherwise it's a whole other platform.

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Aug 28, 2010, 08:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by Goldfinger View Post
And Rob, I don't know what you mean with the LOL pic. Audis are the best thing out there now that you drive one ? Is that what you meant ?
No, I meant that Audi's, as a whole, are unreliable pieces of crap filled with overly complex gizmos that just add headache to the experience of ownership. They're nice, unreliable, overly complex cars. There are a few exceptions... the Ur-S car is one of them. The AAN is basically bullet proof, and the chassis dates back to the Audi 90, so all the bugs are well sorted out. Then again, I'll just let an Audi technician 'splain it for me:

"yeah, some of the newer stuff is plain masochistic....kinda cool when done but tough...
a water cooled alternator in a 4.2 V8 is just stupid(front end comes off....actually a serp belt in a 4.2 requires the front end to come off = service position)....cats in a 4.2 or 3.0 is another nasty job(i won't even go there).....the DRC suspension in the RS4/RS6 is kinda like an AC system....you have to evacuate the fluid, vacuum it, recharge it...then pump it to 22 bar...wait(leak test)...then bleed it to 16 bar(operating pressure)....but first you have to replace all 4 shocks as part of the recall.
The S5 evaporator sucked a$$ as they have you remove half of the firewall, the brake booster, all pedals and brackets, knee airbag, steering column with wheel and airbag just to gain access to the evaporator, disconnect the expansion valve and literally cut the evaporator lines. Then you move to the pass side and take off the glove box, the other knee airbag, air intake box, blower motor, control modules(and there are quite a few down there) and finally you have to cut the airbox again and pull the evaporator out.
I did a Mechatronic unit(valve body in a DSG transmission) in a B8 S4.....lining up the 7 shift forks was a nightmare however the mechanical job only took 2 hours, another hour for filling but coding was another thing.....i spent 7 hours trying to code that thing and did it in the end but everything had to be adapted...ECM, TCM, imobilizer, ABS, ESP,airbag, etc.
My favorite line though..."Instalation is reverse of removal."

Guy posts nightmare repairs of newer audis all the time. Basically the most impossible cars to work on.
     
imitchellg5
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Aug 28, 2010, 09:00 PM
 
Originally Posted by downinflames68 View Post
No, I meant that Audi's, as a whole, are unreliable pieces of crap filled with overly complex gizmos that just add headache to the experience of ownership. They're nice, unreliable, overly complex cars. There are a few exceptions... the Ur-S car is one of them. The AAN is basically bullet proof, and the chassis dates back to the Audi 90, so all the bugs are well sorted out. Then again, I'll just let an Audi technician 'splain it for me:

"yeah, some of the newer stuff is plain masochistic....kinda cool when done but tough...
a water cooled alternator in a 4.2 V8 is just stupid(front end comes off....actually a serp belt in a 4.2 requires the front end to come off = service position)....cats in a 4.2 or 3.0 is another nasty job(i won't even go there).....the DRC suspension in the RS4/RS6 is kinda like an AC system....you have to evacuate the fluid, vacuum it, recharge it...then pump it to 22 bar...wait(leak test)...then bleed it to 16 bar(operating pressure)....but first you have to replace all 4 shocks as part of the recall.
The S5 evaporator sucked a$$ as they have you remove half of the firewall, the brake booster, all pedals and brackets, knee airbag, steering column with wheel and airbag just to gain access to the evaporator, disconnect the expansion valve and literally cut the evaporator lines. Then you move to the pass side and take off the glove box, the other knee airbag, air intake box, blower motor, control modules(and there are quite a few down there) and finally you have to cut the airbox again and pull the evaporator out.
I did a Mechatronic unit(valve body in a DSG transmission) in a B8 S4.....lining up the 7 shift forks was a nightmare however the mechanical job only took 2 hours, another hour for filling but coding was another thing.....i spent 7 hours trying to code that thing and did it in the end but everything had to be adapted...ECM, TCM, imobilizer, ABS, ESP,airbag, etc.
My favorite line though..."Instalation is reverse of removal."

Guy posts nightmare repairs of newer audis all the time. Basically the most impossible cars to work on.
It's a high-end car, nobody is gonna do their own work on an RS6 or RS4. I'm certainly not gonna fool around with a $70k car like that. I'm not sure why you'd ever have to bleed the MagneRide system, I've never seen that needed before. As for the 4.2L, sounds like he's referring simply to the S4 and RS4, I'm pretty certain the A6 doesn't need the front end taken off like that. But again, what S4 or RS4 owner is gonna be changing their alternator? The evaporator is pretty complicated to replace in the S5 because of the V8, but it's a super easy job in an A4 or 2.0T A5 (not sure about the 3.2L). I don't think Audis are terribly complicated compared to most modern cars (at least the current models). At least it's not a Boxster...
( Last edited by imitchellg5; Aug 28, 2010 at 09:22 PM. )
     
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Aug 28, 2010, 09:10 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
Heh. It was big news here when Porsche *tried* to buy VW. They upped their capital, had more than enough funds, and then the credit crunch happened.

VW bought Porsche instead.

Wiedeking had to go, and Piëch is no longer boss (Winterkorn is).
Actually, the formal marriage knot hasn't been tied yet, although it's almost as if it were.

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Aug 28, 2010, 10:05 PM
 
Originally Posted by imitchellg5 View Post
It's a high-end car, nobody is gonna do their own work on an RS6 or RS4.
It's technically illegal to work on your own car in the EU these days, so why would any Euro manufacturer bother to make a vehicle which the owner can easily work on?

Wouldn't surprise me if these laws make their way over to the colonies real soon. Emissions regs, health and safety, etc..
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Aug 28, 2010, 10:21 PM
 
America is so far behind with motoring laws, it's absurd. No amber turn signal req, passing laws, etc.
     
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Aug 28, 2010, 11:17 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
I think supercars in general are pointless. Happy now?
Unless you like how much supermodel-quality tail you can snag with one.

Supercars aren't pointless, they're fun. You know? Fun? They're terribly impractical, grossly expensive, and spend far too much time in the shop. But, on a good road they're the most fun you can have while still wearing your shorts.
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Aug 28, 2010, 11:20 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
It's technically illegal to work on your own car in the EU these days, so why would any Euro manufacturer bother to make a vehicle which the owner can easily work on?

Wouldn't surprise me if these laws make their way over to the colonies real soon. Emissions regs, health and safety, etc..
Bollocks on that. They can have my wrench when the pry it from my... bah, nevermind, you know the rest.
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Goldfinger
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Aug 29, 2010, 06:55 AM
 
Originally Posted by downinflames68 View Post
No, I meant that Audi's, as a whole, are unreliable pieces of crap filled with overly complex gizmos that just add headache to the experience of ownership. They're nice, unreliable, overly complex cars. There are a few exceptions... the Ur-S car is one of them. The AAN is basically bullet proof, and the chassis dates back to the Audi 90, so all the bugs are well sorted out. Then again, I'll just let an Audi technician 'splain it for me:
Ah I see. It's not only Audi though. Just about any modern car is hell to work on these days and most of the time you can't do it without special tools and diagnostic computers and/or countless wasted hours.
All modern cars are ridiculously complex.

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Aug 29, 2010, 08:18 AM
 
Originally Posted by imitchellg5 View Post
It's a high-end car, nobody is gonna do their own work on an RS6 or RS4.
But that means you have to pay the $100+/hour for a mechanic to work on it.
     
downinflames68
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Aug 29, 2010, 01:30 PM
 
Originally Posted by Goldfinger View Post
Ah I see. It's not only Audi though. Just about any modern car is hell to work on these days and most of the time you can't do it without special tools and diagnostic computers and/or countless wasted hours.
All modern cars are ridiculously complex.
Pretty sure most cars don't need the front ends disassembled for basic service. My Subaru SVX was 'strange', but even that was totally doable in a driveway. And all this fancy suspension with mangetic oils and pressurization? Yeah right.

I'll stick to cars from 89-99, thanks.
     
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Aug 29, 2010, 01:52 PM
 
My sister-in-law's 1980 "Mustang" (not really a Mustang, but Ford called 'em that) needed to have the engine pulled to change the rear two plugs. Fitting a big V8 in that little compartment wasn't such a great idea...

Pointlessness: Hummers. Escalades. The Lincoln LT "luxury pickup truck." They're ostentatious, overly expensive for what you get, and they are sold on the basis of bling, not function (which I find extremely pointless).

Honorable Mentions go to the Toyota FJ Cruiser for being supposedly "go anywhere" vehicles like the Land Cruiser but for requiring premium gas. And for being too bling-oriented...

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Aug 29, 2010, 02:16 PM
 
Originally Posted by downinflames68 View Post
Pretty sure most cars don't need the front ends disassembled for basic service. My Subaru SVX was 'strange', but even that was totally doable in a driveway. And all this fancy suspension with mangetic oils and pressurization? Yeah right.

I'll stick to cars from 89-99, thanks.
My '97 VW T4 van required substantial disassembly to replace two of the glowplugs (Diesel - is that what they're called in English?).

Also, to replace the clutch disk (every 150,000 km or so), you had to disassemble the entire front, unhinge the front wheel wells, and PULL OUT THE ENGINE to disengage it from the tranny. A days' work for three people.

Still, I miss it.

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Aug 29, 2010, 02:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
glowplugs (Diesel - is that what they're called in English?).
Yep.
Been inclined to wander... off the beaten track.
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Aug 29, 2010, 06:20 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
But that means you have to pay the $100+/hour for a mechanic to work on it.
Again, if you're spending $80k-100k on a car, I don't think that's a big deal.
     
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Aug 29, 2010, 06:23 PM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
Supercars aren't pointless, they're fun. You know? Fun? They're terribly impractical, grossly expensive, and spend far too much time in the shop. But, on a good road they're the most fun you can have while still wearing your shorts.
But see, that's the problem with supercars. You can have an insane amount of fun in a Miata or a Fiesta or a S2000 (note to Honda: never stop making this car, even though you have) and those aren't terribly impractical, are cheap, and don't have to go to the shop every 12 miles.
     
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Aug 29, 2010, 06:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by imitchellg5 View Post
But see, that's the problem with supercars. You can have an insane amount of fun in a Miata or a Fiesta or a S2000 (note to Honda: never stop making this car, even though you have) and those aren't terribly impractical, are cheap, and don't have to go to the shop every 12 miles.
Any time I see a supercar, I just figure the owner is compensating for some other, erm, 'inadequacy'.
     
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Aug 29, 2010, 06:35 PM
 
Originally Posted by imitchellg5 View Post
But see, that's the problem with supercars. You can have an insane amount of fun in a Miata or a Fiesta or a S2000 (note to Honda: never stop making this car, even though you have) and those aren't terribly impractical, are cheap, and don't have to go to the shop every 12 miles.
I believe we require a photograph to better illustrate the point.

Been inclined to wander... off the beaten track.
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Aug 29, 2010, 06:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by CreepDogg View Post
Any time I see a supercar, I just figure the owner is compensating for some other, erm, 'inadequacy'.
Supercars make you think about gentleman parts?

If that's the affect they have on you, just imagine what kind of affect they have on women.
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Aug 29, 2010, 06:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
I believe we require a photograph to better illustrate the point.

Now, I shudder to even make the request, but show us the pictures of the women with the Miata or a Fiesta or a S2000 cars.

EDIT: Where'd the picture go?!?!
     
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Aug 29, 2010, 06:41 PM
 
Originally Posted by Railroader View Post
Now, I shudder to even make the request, but show us the pictures of the women with the Miata or a Fiesta or a S2000 cars.


Originally Posted by Railroader View Post
EDIT: Where'd the picture go?!?!
? Still here at my end.
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Aug 29, 2010, 06:53 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
Supercars make you think about gentleman parts?
I was referring to any general 'inadequacy', but if that's the first thing that comes to your mind, have at it!

If that's the affect they have on you, just imagine what kind of affect they have on women.
The effect on women of thinking of inadequate gentlemen parts? Yikes!
     
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Aug 29, 2010, 06:54 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
I believe we require a photograph to better illustrate the point.

This works too...

     
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Aug 29, 2010, 07:47 PM
 
Or you just become like one of my customers and turn into a cock taking up two spaces (Sorry for BlurryCam photo at 7am).

BTW, the car next to it is a Fezza 318. Such a gorgeous car. And the Pontiac GTO across the lot is amazing too.

     
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Aug 29, 2010, 10:35 PM
 
Working at Starbucks?
     
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Aug 29, 2010, 10:41 PM
 
Anything offered by Maybach
     
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Aug 29, 2010, 10:54 PM
 
Originally Posted by imitchellg5 View Post
But see, that's the problem with supercars. You can have an insane amount of fun in a Miata or a Fiesta or a S2000 (note to Honda: never stop making this car, even though you have) and those aren't terribly impractical, are cheap, and don't have to go to the shop every 12 miles.
When you have that kinda money, who cares? And, no, the level of fun is much, much less. It's like, there's $20k fun, which isn't really fun at all. Then there's $40k fun, which isn't bad, but isn't much better than sitting around and enjoying a new LP on the phono. At $100k the fun spikes, and so do the offers from chicks to have crazy monkey sex with you with their legs wrapped around your Italian leather seats. This continues to spike exponentially until you hit $300k, then it flattens out. After $2m the fun continues to climb, but you actually start losing chicks, because they think a $300k Lambo looks cooler than your Veyron GT. To hell with them though, you can do >250MPH and don't need them anyway, because you just shot your load taking the 12th bend in the Nürburgring at speeds that would turn any other car on the planet into a pile of slag.

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Aug 29, 2010, 11:03 PM
 
I'm a cheap f*ck so there's little chance I'd spend $300k on a car even if I could afford it but that doesn't mean I can't appreciate them... and I wouldn't buy a car to impress anybody but myself.
     
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Aug 29, 2010, 11:06 PM
 
The current banner ads on the top and bottom of this page are hilarious! A Clinique ad on top banner and a Lincoln "luxury" car ad on bottom banner.
     
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Aug 29, 2010, 11:12 PM
 
I don't play in the $100K space, and probably never will (and I'm absolutely OK with that), but anecdotally I don't see the correlation between $ and fun anyway. At least where I've played. My $25K Mini is more fun to me than my $50K BMW was (though admittedly not by much and each has its unique appeal). But hey, to each his own...
     
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Aug 29, 2010, 11:13 PM
 
Right now, I've got Clinique at the top and BMW at the bottom...

Oh, and Lincoln doesn't make luxury cars anymore
     
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Aug 29, 2010, 11:17 PM
 
Originally Posted by CreepDogg View Post
I don't play in the $100K space, and probably never will (and I'm absolutely OK with that), but anecdotally I don't see the correlation between $ and fun anyway. At least where I've played. My $25K Mini is more fun to me than my $50K BMW was (though admittedly not by much and each has its unique appeal). But hey, to each his own...
I'll probably never play in the $100k space either, but I totally agree with you.

Hell, I can have fun in my Honda Accord on a good road. I can only imagine it's a much better experience in a "fun" car.
     
downinflames68
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Aug 29, 2010, 11:27 PM
 
Sleepers.... way fun.
     
imitchellg5
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Aug 29, 2010, 11:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
When you have that kinda money, who cares? And, no, the level of fun is much, much less. It's like, there's $20k fun, which isn't really fun at all. Then there's $40k fun, which isn't bad, but isn't much better than sitting around and enjoying a new LP on the phono. At $100k the fun spikes, and so do the offers from chicks to have crazy monkey sex with you with their legs wrapped around your Italian leather seats. This continues to spike exponentially until you hit $300k, then it flattens out. After $2m the fun continues to climb, but you actually start losing chicks, because they think a $300k Lambo looks cooler than your Veyron GT. To hell with them though, you can do >250MPH and don't need them anyway, because you just shot your load taking the 12th bend in the Nürburgring at speeds that would turn any other car on the planet into a pile of slag.

IDK. I still think cheaper can be more fun. There comes a switch in prices where instead of you driving the car, you start offering input and electrics start driving to keep you in a line. While I haven't driven anything faster than a last-gen RS6, I have way more fun in the Fiesta than I did in that car.
     
imitchellg5
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Aug 29, 2010, 11:51 PM
 
Originally Posted by EmmEff View Post
Right now, I've got Clinique at the top and BMW at the bottom...

Oh, and Lincoln doesn't make luxury cars anymore
I beg to differ, take a look at the MK-S. Same motor as the Taurus SHO
     
imitchellg5
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Aug 29, 2010, 11:55 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
Working at Starbucks?
A resort.
     
EmmEff
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Aug 30, 2010, 12:01 AM
 
Originally Posted by imitchellg5 View Post
I beg to differ, take a look at the MK-S. Same motor as the Taurus SHO
I'm not saying I wouldn't drive (and enjoy one) but they just don't seem to have the same panache as they once did...
     
imitchellg5
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Aug 30, 2010, 12:05 AM
 
Originally Posted by EmmEff View Post
I'm not saying I wouldn't drive (and enjoy one) but they just don't seem to have the same panache as they once did...
Sure, after years of lame cars. Although IMO there isn't a need for Lincoln anymore with the new Ford products being so good anyway.
     
EmmEff
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Aug 30, 2010, 12:12 AM
 
Originally Posted by imitchellg5 View Post
Sure, after years of lame cars. Although IMO there isn't a need for Lincoln anymore with the new Ford products being so good anyway.
Agreed. It's good to finally see something domestic back in the thick of things again.
     
Face Ache
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Aug 30, 2010, 06:41 AM
 
Originally Posted by imitchellg5 View Post
I have way more fun in the Fiesta than I did in that car.
The most fun you can have in a Ford Fiesta is Travel Scrabble.
     
downinflames68
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Aug 30, 2010, 08:06 AM
 
Nah, pretty sure it's storming a beach...
     
 
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