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LED Lightbulbs
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brassplayersrock²
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Dec 29, 2010, 08:40 PM
 
Hello all. I’m wanting to upgrade a room at a time to LED lightbulbs. Does anyone here have any experience with LED Lightbulbs? Brands that they’d recommend. Places, websites too. I’d like to get as close to a white light as possible.

Thank you!

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indigoimac
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Dec 29, 2010, 08:54 PM
 
At the current moment you will not recoup the cost and likely be dissatisfied with the amount of light output and temperature. Even CFLs are not all that beneficial if the fixture is not on all that often. Electricity is cheap, the even impressive differences in wattage take forever to add up. Almost all of the fixtures in my house are 9w cfl, however.

Also, highly recommend those outdoor CFL floods. They pay for themselves solely based on longevity in my experience, elec cost is a bonus going from 90w to ~20.

If cost is not the concern and you want "bright white light" get conventional fluorescent fixtures... they will also be efficient as hell, even when comparing to leds and their brightness / watt.
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Dec 30, 2010, 05:16 PM
 
LED bulbs are simply not bright enough to light a room, but they're good for accent lighting.

You can now get CFL with varying colour temperatures and full spectrum. I'd look at fixtures that can house two or three CFLs and fill it with 13watt full spectrum or "daylight" CFLs.
     
TETENAL
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Dec 30, 2010, 05:57 PM
 
Originally Posted by indigoimac View Post
Electricity is cheap
What? That's news to me. How much do you pay per kWh?

The time is not ripe for LED bulbs though. Hopefully this changes soon, since regular energy saving bulbs contain mercury.
     
subego
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Dec 30, 2010, 06:56 PM
 
Well, you can recycle them, but that can be varying levels of pain in the ass.
     
indigoimac
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Dec 30, 2010, 08:03 PM
 
Originally Posted by TETENAL View Post
What? That's news to me. How much do you pay per kWh?

The time is not ripe for LED bulbs though. Hopefully this changes soon, since regular energy saving bulbs contain mercury.
~15¢ inclusive of taxes and distribution, which is on the high side for the US -- it still takes forever to recoup the cost of something, even as cheap as 1 or 2 dollars if it is not used very often and the difference in efficiency isn't that great. In the grand scheme, electricity is very, very cheap, we just all use quite a bit, with climate control being the worst offender.
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tooki
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Dec 31, 2010, 12:08 PM
 
Yeah, lighting is trivially cheap (about 9% of residential electricity use). That's why it doesn't make sense to replace incandescent lights with efficient lighting until they fail, except for lights you leave on all the time. For rarely used lights (especially ones turned on for a sec and then right back off), an incandescent bulb is often wiser.

Never mind all the mercury in CCFLs. Yuk!
     
turtle777
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Dec 31, 2010, 12:48 PM
 
Originally Posted by TETENAL View Post
What? That's news to me. How much do you pay per kWh?
Electricity pricing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Not sure if the rate for Spin is right though.

-t
     
reader50
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Dec 31, 2010, 02:28 PM
 
I couldn't find an entry for Spin. Sounds like an interesting place to visit.
     
sek929
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Dec 31, 2010, 03:10 PM
 
A bathroom I renovated made use of LED can lights in the ceiling and I actually found them to be way to bright, and the light was harsh and cold. Not to mention they were very expensive.
     
turtle777
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Dec 31, 2010, 04:00 PM
 
Originally Posted by reader50 View Post
I couldn't find an entry for Spin. Sounds like an interesting place to visit.
Sorry, I meant Span

-t
     
subego
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Dec 31, 2010, 04:32 PM
 
Anyone buy that they're going to follow through with the 2012 incandescent ban?

It's time to start thinking about hoarding, but considering how much the alternatives still suck, I find it hard to believe they won't delay the start date.

At least twice.
     
subego
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Dec 31, 2010, 04:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
Sorry, I meant Span
Where the ran from the plan falls manly.
     
indigoimac
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Dec 31, 2010, 04:37 PM
 
Originally Posted by sek929 View Post
A bathroom I renovated made use of LED can lights in the ceiling and I actually found them to be way to bright, and the light was harsh and cold. Not to mention they were very expensive.
There are definitely some that are very bright, including some very impressive outdoor fixtures.

Originally Posted by subego View Post
Anyone buy that they're going to follow through with the 2012 incandescent ban?

It's time to start thinking about hoarding, but considering how much the alternatives still suck, I find it hard to believe they won't delay the start date.

At least twice.
As far as a standard bulb is concerned I think they will, and really the cfls are pretty good in the low wattages 9 and 13. They warm up almost immediately and last forever. I have some 23w 100w equiv and am not really impressed. Not to mention bulbs that need to dim or are candelabras.
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sek929
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Dec 31, 2010, 04:38 PM
 
For the record I still buy incandescent bulbs, IMO nothing comes close to the light they produce.
     
indigoimac
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Dec 31, 2010, 04:44 PM
 
Originally Posted by sek929 View Post
For the record I still buy incandescent bulbs, IMO nothing comes close to the light they produce.
I agree, they're(cfls) acceptable for utility but in our kitchen and dining room their are still incandescents as cfls make food look weird... makes them difficult to cook by to be honest, lol.
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subego
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Dec 31, 2010, 04:51 PM
 
Originally Posted by indigoimac View Post
As far as a standard bulb is concerned I think they will, and really the cfls are pretty good in the low wattages 9 and 13. They warm up almost immediately and last forever. I have some 23w 100w equiv and am not really impressed. Not to mention bulbs that need to dim or are candelabras.
Time to hoard then. Every light I have is on a dimmer.

I have yet to see a CFL or a LED come close to the "cozy" factor of a dimmed incandescent.
     
l008com
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Jan 2, 2011, 11:39 PM
 
We have dimmable CFLs. In my opinion, they are the same as the incandescents they replaced as far as "light quality". And once they warm up, they are a bit brighter. And we have a well lit house so it made a big difference in the electric bill. BUT the CFLs take FOREVER to warm up. Like 5 minutes. If you have to read something at night, you have to wait and wait and wait. I'm looking forward to switching to LEDs. I have no experience with "household" LED light bulb replacements, but I have plenty of other LED experience. Brightness is not an issue with LED.

The stern light in my boat is a single 350miliamp white LED, and its visible from 2 nautical miles. My bow light has three red and three green LEDs. They're so friggin bright, if I pass right near an object, I get glare off the reflection of my bow light. And the stern light's white is very pure white, its not a blueish sort of white.

I've had some bad luck too though. Trying to replace the bulbs in my old S10 pickup with LED bulbs. The 3rd brake lights were good, nice and bright red. The tail lights sucked. Not nearly bright enough. And they started to fail after a few months. The yellow indicator lights up front were worse. The lights were orange but the factory lenses are yellow. It looked horrible. The problem with LEDs like that is that they are just thrown together cheaply, they're not really mass produced like normal bulbs. Each small company just makes their own. Some are good, some are trash. My boat lights weren't LED replacement bulbs, they were whole new light enclosures made with LEDs. That seems to be what makes the difference.

If or how this info ^ applies to your original question... I have no idea, but enjoy
     
Laminar
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Jan 3, 2011, 11:41 AM
 
Originally Posted by l008com View Post
We have dimmable CFLs. In my opinion, they are the same as the incandescents they replaced as far as "light quality". And once they warm up, they are a bit brighter. And we have a well lit house so it made a big difference in the electric bill. BUT the CFLs take FOREVER to warm up. Like 5 minutes. If you have to read something at night, you have to wait and wait and wait. I'm looking forward to switching to LEDs. I have no experience with "household" LED light bulb replacements, but I have plenty of other LED experience. Brightness is not an issue with LED.

The stern light in my boat is a single 350miliamp white LED, and its visible from 2 nautical miles. My bow light has three red and three green LEDs. They're so friggin bright, if I pass right near an object, I get glare off the reflection of my bow light. And the stern light's white is very pure white, its not a blueish sort of white.
LEDs work great for indication or marking, but not illumination. That's why they'll work fine for taillights or turn signals, but not for headlights. There are LED headlights out now, but they're crazy expensive.

I've had some bad luck too though. Trying to replace the bulbs in my old S10 pickup with LED bulbs. The 3rd brake lights were good, nice and bright red. The tail lights sucked. Not nearly bright enough. And they started to fail after a few months. The yellow indicator lights up front were worse. The lights were orange but the factory lenses are yellow. It looked horrible. The problem with LEDs like that is that they are just thrown together cheaply, they're not really mass produced like normal bulbs. Each small company just makes their own. Some are good, some are trash.
Out of curiosity, where'd you find them? From a reputable dealer?
     
Goldfinger
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Jan 3, 2011, 01:31 PM
 
Originally Posted by tooki View Post
Yeah, lighting is trivially cheap (about 9% of residential electricity use). That's why it doesn't make sense to replace incandescent lights with efficient lighting until they fail, except for lights you leave on all the time. For rarely used lights (especially ones turned on for a sec and then right back off), an incandescent bulb is often wiser.
It probably doesn't make any sense financially but it does ethically. All our lights around the house are CFL/CCFL and LED. Will we earn back the money invested ? Maybe, maybe not. I'm not going to bother calculating the reduced electricity cost. It doesn't really matter. They save tons of energy and that's what matters. To me anyway...

The enormous amounts of energy that is wasted everyday is ridiculous. We should all try and help out as much as we can.

Oh and our CCFLs, are exactly the same in colour temp as incandescent lights, switch on instantly and are dimmable. There is no point in getting incandescents anymore (it's even getting harder and harder to find them here).

Never mind all the mercury in CCFLs. Yuk!
CCFLs have much less mercury than CFLs... The Mercury isn't an issue in real life. You just need to get them recycled properly instead of just throwing them on a landfill. Also because they use less power, less mercury is produced by coal plants.
The life span is also MUCH longer, so we need less lights in our life time.

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Uncle Skeleton
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Jan 3, 2011, 01:40 PM
 
Originally Posted by Goldfinger View Post
It probably doesn't make any sense financially but it does ethically. All our lights around the house are CFL/CCFL and LED. Will we earn back the money invested ? Maybe, maybe not. I'm not going to bother calculating the reduced electricity cost. It doesn't really matter. They save tons of energy and that's what matters. To me anyway...
Except that cost is a direct linear indicator for energy use (aka waste). If it only saves a miniscule amount of money, then by definition it also saves only a miniscule amount of electricity. The 80/20 rule applies here, focus your energy on the bigger wasters (eg HVAC), whether you're talking about economy or ecology.
     
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Jan 3, 2011, 02:23 PM
 
Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton View Post
If it only saves a miniscule amount of money, then by definition it also saves only a miniscule amount of electricity.
For one person. How much energy is saved by 300 million people switching?
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Uncle Skeleton
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Jan 3, 2011, 02:45 PM
 
Originally Posted by olePigeon View Post
For one person. How much energy is saved by 300 million people switching?
My comment is completely scale-independent.
300M lights : 300M HVACs :: 1 light : 1 HVAC.
Also 300M CFL factories : 300M people :: 1 factory is to 1 person.
Nothing is changed by scale.
     
Goldfinger
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Jan 3, 2011, 02:54 PM
 
Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton View Post
Except that cost is a direct linear indicator for energy use (aka waste). If it only saves a miniscule amount of money, then by definition it also saves only a miniscule amount of electricity. The 80/20 rule applies here, focus your energy on the bigger wasters (eg HVAC), whether you're talking about economy or ecology.
Not really. Energy cost is through the roof and goes up every year. Like I said, our house is fully equipped with CFL/LED and yet our electricity bill is the same or even higher as it was before we switched...

And, you don't get my point. CFL/LED uses less energy so less waste. It has nothing to do with cost. Unless I'm missing something. Like I said, I'm NOT equipping my house with CFL/LED, tons of insulation, triple high insulation glass etc to save money. I'm doing it to help the planet. Maybe my part in it won't make a difference but I can at least try. Most people aren't even trying.

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Uncle Skeleton
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Jan 3, 2011, 03:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by Goldfinger View Post
And, you don't get my point. Unless I'm missing something.
Yes, you are. I am challenging this:
"CFL/LED uses less energy so less waste."

If lighting strategies don't have a significant effect on your entire electric BILL, then it is logical to conclude that they also don't have a significant effect on your entire electric USAGE.

Corollary, if lighting strategies DO have a significant effect on your entire electric USAGE, then it is logical to conclude that they also have a significant effect on your entire electric BILL.

Energy cost is through the roof and goes up every year.
But the bill is still proportional to your usage. The rate may change, but it is still proportional.

It has nothing to do with cost.
I understand that cost is not the motivation, but that doesn't change the fact that cost is still an accurate indication of how relevant lighting is to the big picture.

Maybe my part in it won't make a difference but I can at least try. Most people aren't even trying.
In the context of something that doesn't matter whether you try or not, can you blame them? I would save my righteous indignation for something that constitutes a bigger slice of the pie.
     
   
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