[goMac]

"Q What did Iraq have to do with that?

THE PRESIDENT: What did Iraq have to do with what?

Q The attack on the World Trade Center?

THE PRESIDENT: Nothing, except for it's part of -- and nobody has ever suggested in this administration that Saddam Hussein ordered the attack. Iraq was a -- the lesson of September the 11th is, take threats before they fully materialize, Ken. Nobody has ever suggested that the attacks of September the 11th were ordered by Iraq. I have suggested, however, that resentment and the lack of hope create the breeding grounds for terrorists who are willing to use suiciders to kill to achieve an objective. I have made that case.

And one way to defeat that -- defeat resentment is with hope. And the best way to do hope is through a form of government. Now, I said going into Iraq that we've got to take these threats seriously before they fully materialize. I saw a threat. I fully believe it was the right decision to remove Saddam Hussein, and I fully believe the world is better off without him. Now, the question is how do we succeed in Iraq? And you don't succeed by leaving before the mission is complete, like some in this political process are suggesting."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...082200658.html

A good quote from the article:

"Most of the violence in Iraq today has little if anything to do with al-Qaeda or the global jihad; it involves rival Muslim sects killing each other and, all too often, American troops caught in the middle.

National security experts overwhelmingly see Iraq not as a killing zone for terrorists, but as an incubator -- both because the occupation arouses anti-American sentiment among many Muslims and because the current lawless violence makes for a perfect training ground in terror tactics.

Indeed, there's a powerful argument to be made that leaving Iraq would make the American public safer. It certainly would put an end to the horrible daily toll on Americans in uniform."

[Kevin]

Um your topic is misleading

It says "Bush: No connection between Al Quada and Iraq "

But the text says Bush says Iraq had no connection with 9/11 that they found.

Iraq did INDEED have connections with terrorists groups including AlQuada.

So where you got that Bush said "No Connection Between Al Quada and Iraq" is beyond me.

[bowwowman]

As long as the US has a military presence anywhere in the middle east, the fighting will continue, period. They want us out so bad, fine, lets pull out and then give them an ultimatum: Stop killing each other, or we WILL nuke your asses out of existance! problem solved, finally, efficiently and cheaply ....and not just Iraq, but Syria, Iran, Hezbollah, Hamaas and anyone else who insists on creating turbulence in the region. Violence is the only thing those people understand.

Bush/Blair and everyone else are idiots if they think they can impose democracy in the middle east.

If they want it, it will come. But they clearly dont want it, so why should we waste billions of dollars & millions of lives trying to make it happen !!!!

[Kevin]

Fighting was going on there before the US existed. Fighting will always go on there.

[stevesnj]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Fighting was going on there before the US existed. Fighting will always go on there.

So why should we be involved in Iraq then? We Should of just concentrated on Osama and Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iran, North Korea.

[Busemann]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Iraq did INDEED have connections with terrorists groups including AlQuada.

Then why did Al Qaida offer Saudi Arabia their forces to oust Saddam?

You are aware that Iraq under Saddam was secular, right?

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Busemann

Then why did Al Qaida offer Saudi Arabia their forces to oust Saddam?

You are aware that Iraq under Saddam was secular, right?

At this point Kevin covers his ears and stops listening...

[zwiebel_]

Originally Posted by bowwowman

....and not just Iraq, but Syria, Iran, Hezbollah, Hamaas, Israel and anyone else who insists on creating turbulence in the region. Violence is the only thing those people understand.
...

Fixinated. I just could not resist.

[MinM]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Iraq did INDEED have connections with terrorists groups including AlQuada.

Quoted for emphasis.

This has been established and documented. Talk about a misleading thread title. It's like starting a thread back in the late '90s called "Clinton: I work nights as a male prostitute," and then the actual content of the thread is a link to an article about Clinton admitting he had inappropriate relations with an intern.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by MinM

Quoted for emphasis.

This has been established and documented. Talk about a misleading thread title. It's like starting a thread back in the late '90s called "Clinton: I work nights as a male prostitute," and then the actual content of the thread is a link to an article about Clinton admitting he had inappropriate relations with an intern.

Fine. Link to proof.

[MinM]

Originally Posted by goMac

Fine. Link to proof.

Here's one of the first that popped up by simply googling "iraq al qaeda."

While the full extent of the relations between Hussein's Iraq and Al Qaeda is still somewhat elusive, it's pretty well established that the two groups had at least a functioning relationship.

[olePigeon]

So after saying that the war in Iraq is a war on terror that began on September 11th, and that Iraq is the central piece on the war on terror, he says, "Most of the violence in Iraq today has little if anything to do with al-Qaeda or the global jihad..."

[goMac]

Originally Posted by MinM

Here's one of the first that popped up by simply googling "iraq al qaeda."

While the full extent of the relations between Hussein's Iraq and Al Qaeda is still somewhat elusive, it's pretty well established that the two groups had at least a functioning relationship.

The article is pretty gosh darn light on proof, and doesn't make any sense considering the Al Quada was anti Hussain and Hussain was anti Al Quada. They both hated each other. Care to explain that one?

[ironknee]

saddam was an egomaniac...he would NEVER share power with anyone.

he also kept iran in check

so why are we spending 7 billion dollars a month to be in iWaq if there was no connection with 9-11?

[mojo2]

Originally Posted by Busemann

Then why did Al Qaida offer Saudi Arabia their forces to oust Saddam?

You are aware that Iraq under Saddam was secular, right?

If Democrats and Republicans were to go berserk it might resemble the relationship (to SOME degree) between the Sunni & the Shiia.

The Americans fighting in Iraq are Democrats, Republicans, apolitical and of all possible faiths and no faiths.

If Americans have animosities with each other those are put aside when fighting a common enemy.

Even racists of different colors fought alongside one another in Viet Nam and even saved each other's lives. Then when that fight was over, I imagine some returned to fighting their brothers in arms.

"My brother and I against a similar foe."

That would explain how al Qaeda could offer to oppose Saddam and then turn around and support him or join with him to oppose the infidels.

But better than anyone trying to explain the concept, why don't YOU try to explain how it is that the newspaper controlled by Saddam's son printed soothing and flattering poems to OBL?

How it is that OBL was offered sanctuary in Iraq and was thought to be about to agree to it until things began getting hot there?

Explain Saddam's terrorism.


http://www.weeklystandard.com/Conten...2/009euijs.asp

"Blessed July"
One of the Saddam documents details orders for an extensive terrorist operation.

by Thomas Joscelyn
03/24/2006 10:00:00 AM

SADDAM'S ULTRA-LOYAL Fedayeen martyrs were ordered to carry out bombings and assassinations in London, Iran, and "self ruled areas" of Iraq in May 1999, according to a newly released Iraqi intelligence document. One such operation, codenamed "Tamooz Mubarak" or "Blessed July," was apparently intended to hunt down Iraqi dissidents and bomb other unspecified locations.

[mojo2]

Originally Posted by ironknee

saddam was an egomaniac...he would NEVER share power with anyone.

he also kept iran in check

so why are we spending 7 billion dollars a month to be in iWaq if there was no connection with 9-11?

So you can get on the computer and the internet and say, "hey now."

Without oil, what is your world gonna be like?

If jihadists were to receive the revenues from Iraq's oil sales what would your world be like?

[vmarks]

Originally Posted by goMac

Fine. Link to proof.

Are you certain?

Al-Qaeda operated in Iraq pre-2001. - http://cfrterrorism.org/groups/ansar.html

Ansar Al-Islam is Al-Qaeda.

The fact that Zarqawi was able to take refuge in Iraq either means that Hussein supported him being there, or Hussein didn't have the iron fist rule we all know that he had.

His support of Zawahiri is factual. Hussein's ties to radical Islamic terrorism are clear. If his Iraq was the least offensive in the area in this regard, then the global war on terror has some big fronts to tackle. However, not going in was not a valid option. Iraq was absolutely host to international terrorists who had attacked Americans in the past or supported those who had attacked Americans in the past.

[mojo2]

Originally Posted by olePigeon

So after saying that the war in Iraq is a war on terror that began on September 11th, and that Iraq is the central piece on the war on terror, he says, "Most of the violence in Iraq today has little if anything to do with al-Qaeda or the global jihad..."

"Most of the violence in Iraq today has little if anything to do with al-Qaeda or the global jihad..."

[ironknee]

Originally Posted by mojo2

So you can get on the computer and the internet and say, "hey now."

Without oil, what is your world gonna be like?

If jihadists were to receive the revenues from Iraq's oil sales what would your world be like?

hey now!

but but...where are the revenues from the oil that were suppose to pay for the war?

[BRussell]

Al qaeda and Iraq were natural enemies. Zarqawi was in Kurdish-controlled Iraq, a region that Saddam had lost control of after the 1990 Gulf War.

Does the US have ties to al Qaeda? There were al Qaeda operatives working inside the US, after all.

[BRussell]

Originally Posted by mojo2

So you can get on the computer and the internet and say, "hey now."

Without oil, what is your world gonna be like?

If jihadists were to receive the revenues from Iraq's oil sales what would your world be like?

The chances that jihadists will take control of Iraqi oil have increased as a result of the Iraq war, not decreased. The chances that a true axis of evil - ruled by fundamentalist theocratic Shiite crazies - will form between Iran and Iraq have increased as a result of the Iraq war, not decreased.

[ironknee]

^^ yep...bush got us into a lot of crap with HIS was in iWaq.

you guys who support bush should join the army since we are stretched thin

[Busemann]

Originally Posted by vmarks

Are you certain?

Al-Qaeda operated in Iraq pre-2001. - Ansar al-Islam (Iraq, Islamists/Kurdish Separatists ) - Council on Foreign Relations

Ansar Al-Islam is Al-Qaeda.

It's not though, is it? And I sure hope you're not saying they were on Saddam's side.

[vmarks]

Ansar al-Islam is an al-Qaeda affiliate active in Iraqi Kurdistan since September 2001.

In August 2001, leaders of several Kurdish Islamist factions reportedly visited the al-Qaeda leadership in Afghanistan with the goal of creating an alternate base for the organization in northern Iraq. Their intentions were echoed in a document found in an al-Qaeda guest house in Afghanistan vowing to "expel those Jews and Christians from Kurdistan and join the way of Jihad, [and] rule every piece of land . . . with the Islamic Shari'a rule." Soon thereafter, Ansar al-Islam was created using $300,000 to $600,000 in al-Qaeda seed money, in addition to funds from Saudi Arabia.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by vmarks

Ansar al-Islam is an al-Qaeda affiliate active in Iraqi Kurdistan since September 2001.

In August 2001, leaders of several Kurdish Islamist factions reportedly visited the al-Qaeda leadership in Afghanistan with the goal of creating an alternate base for the organization in northern Iraq. Their intentions were echoed in a document found in an al-Qaeda guest house in Afghanistan vowing to "expel those Jews and Christians from Kurdistan and join the way of Jihad, [and] rule every piece of land . . . with the Islamic Shari'a rule." Soon thereafter, Ansar al-Islam was created using $300,000 to $600,000 in al-Qaeda seed money, in addition to funds from Saudi Arabia.

Again, these guys weren't on Saddam's side.

[vmarks]

I love how legends form. First there was no Al-Qaeda in Iraq. Then there was, but Saddam, who ruled with an iron fist, didn't control where they were. There was no communication between Al-Qaeda and Saddam because they were enemies, except that we know there was communication.

Each time, the truth gets rewritten.

We have been told by Hudayfa Azzam, the son of bin Laden's longtime mentor Abdullah Azzam, that Saddam Hussein welcomed young al Qaeda members "with open arms" before the war, that they "entered Iraq in large numbers, setting up an organization to confront the occupation," and that the regime "strictly and directly" controlled their activities. We have been told by Jordan's King Abdullah that his government knew Abu Musab al Zarqawi was in Iraq before the war and requested that the former Iraqi regime deport him. We have been told by Time magazine that confidential documents from Zarqawi's group, recovered in recent raids, indicate other jihadists had joined him in Baghdad before the Hussein regime fell. We have been told by one of those jihadists that he was with Zarqawi in Baghdad before the war.

[Busemann]

Yeah I particularly love the legend about the WMDs myself

[Moderator]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Iraq did INDEED have connections with terrorists groups including AlQuada.

I heard that there were Al Qaeda operatives in the United States prior to 9/11. The US, therefore, had connections to Al Qaeda and was harboring terrorists...invade!

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Busemann

Then why did Al Qaida offer Saudi Arabia their forces to oust Saddam?

You are aware that Iraq under Saddam was secular, right?

You mean when Osama called JIhad against Osama?

THEN years later decided America was worse?

Originally Posted by goMac

At this point Kevin covers his ears and stops listening...

Why would I do that?

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by goMac

The article is pretty gosh darn light on proof, and doesn't make any sense considering the Al Quada was anti Hussain and Hussain was anti Al Quada. They both hated each other. Care to explain that one?

No, no they did not hate each other. I already had a thread on this. If you want to rehash this please read it

http://forums.macnn.com/95/political...aq-supplier/3/

BTW

� “Abu Mohammed,” a former colonel of Saddam Hussein’s Fedayeen fighters, told reporters long ago that Iraq was training terrorists, including al-Qaeda.
Gwynne Roberts, Sunday Times, July 14, 2002
• Iraqi soldiers, captured during the early phases of the war on Iraq in 2003, revealed that al-Qaeda terrorists were present inside Iraq fighting alongside Iraqi troops Gethin Chamberlain, The Scotsman, 10-28-03
• Hamsiraji Sali, Commander of the al-Qaeda affiliate Abu Sayyaf, admitted receiving $20,000 dollars a year from Iraq. Marc Lerner, Washington Times, 3-4-03
• Salah Suleiman, revealed that he was a former Iraqi Intelligence officer, captured on the Pakistan/Afghanistan border shuttling between Iraq and Ayman al-Zawahiri.
Janes Foreign Report, 9-19-01
• Jamal al-Qurairy, a former General in Iraq’s Mukhabarat, who defected years ago, said “that [is] ours” immediately after seeing 9/11 attacks.
David Rose, Vanity Fair, Feb. 2003, and David Rose, The Observer, 3-16-03
• Abbas al-Janabai, a personal assistant to Uday Hussein for 15 years, has repeatedly stated that there was a connection between Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden that included training terrorists at various camps in Iraq.
CNN, 7-23-2003
Gwynne Roberts, Sunday Times, July 14,2002
Richard Miniter, TechCentralStation, 9-25-03
• Two Moroccan associates of Osama bin Laden, arrested in Rabat in Nov 98, confirmed that Col Khairallah al-Tikriti, the brother of Iraq’s top Intelligence official (Mukhabarat), was the case officer in charge of operations with al-Qaeda in Kashmir and Manila
Jacquard, Roland, In the Name of Osama Bin Laden, Duke University Press, 2002, pg.112
• Wali Khan Amin Shah, an al-Qaeda operative in custody, told the FBI that Abu
Hajer al-Iraq had good contacts with Iraq Intelligence Services (reported to Senate Intelligence Committee)
Stephen Hayes, Thomas Joscelyn, Weekly Standard, 7-18-05
• Farouk Hijazi, former #3 in Saddam Hussein’s Mukhabarat, although he denies the well documented reports of his later meetings with bin Laden, Hijazi admits that he met with Osama bin Laden to discuss antiship mines and terror training camps in Iraq during the mid-90’s.
9-11 Commission, Staff Statement 15
• Abdul Rahman al-Shamari, who served in Saddam Hussein’s Mukhabarat from 1997-2002, says that he worked to link Saddam Hussein regime with Ansar al Islam and al-Qaeda.
Preston Mendenhall, MSNBC, "War Diary"
Jonathan Schanzer, Weekly Standard, 3-1-04
• Mohamed Gharib, Ansar al Islam’s Media chief, later admitted that the group took assistance from Saddam Hussein’s regime.
Scott Peterson, Christian Science Monitor, 10-16-03
• Mohamed Mansour Shahab, aka Muhammad Jawad, is a smuggler who claims to have been hired by Iraq to bring weapons to al-Qaeda in Afghanistan
Jeffrey Goldberg, New Yorker, 3-25-02
Scott Peterson, Christian Science Monitor, 4-03-02
Richard Miniter, TechCentralStation, 9-25-03
• Ibn al-Shaykh al-Libi is a senior al-Qaeda operative. Although he has changed his story, he initially told his captors that his mission was to travel to Iraq to acquire poisons and gases from Iraqi Intelligence after impressing them with al-Qaeda’s attack on the USS Cole
Stephen Hayes, Weekly Standard, 11-24-03
• An “enemy combatant” being held at Guantanamo Bay, who was also a former Iraqi Army officer, admits that he served as a liaison between Osama bin Laden and Iraqi Intelligence. He was arrested in Pakistan before completing joint IIS/al-Qaeda mission to blow up U.S. and British embassies
Associated Press, 3-30-05
Stephen Hayes, Thomas Joscelyn. Weekly Standard. 7-18-05
• Abu Hajer al-Iraqi (aka Mahmdouh Mahmud Salim) told prosecutors that he was bin Laden’s best friend and in charge of trying and procure WMD materials from Saddam Hussein’s Iraq.
Andrew C. McCarthy, National Review, 6-17-04
Stephen Hayes, Weekly Standard, 11-24-03
• A “Former Senior (Iraqi) Intelligence Officer” has told U.S. officials that a flurry of activity between Saddam Hussein’s regime and al-Qaeda took place in early and late 1998, the meeting point was Baghdad’s Intelligence station in Pakistan
Stephen Hayes, Weekly Standard, 11-24-03
• Wafiq al-Sammarrai, former head of Iraq’s Military Intelligence before defecting in 1994, stated that Saddam Hussein has agents “inside” al-Qaeda
Laurie Mylroie, “Study of Revenge”
• Khidir Hamza, Saddam Hussein’s former top WMD official, says that Saddam had connections to al-Qaeda
CNN, 10-15-01
PBS Frontline "Gunning For Saddam"
• Abu Zeinab al-Qurairy , a former high-ranking officer in Iraq’s Mukhabarat, told PBS Frontline and the New York Times that the September 11 attackers were trained in Salman Pak, as were other members of al-Qaeda
PBS Frontline "Gunning For Saddam"
• Sabah Khodada, a former Captain in Iraq’s Army, told PBS Frontline and the New York Times that the terrorist training camp at Salman Pak included the training of al-Qaeda members airplane hijacking
PBS Frontline "Gunning For Saddam"
• An “Iraqi Defector,” who spent 16 years working for Iraq’s Mukhabarat, told the Iraqi National Congress that Saddam Hussein’s illegal oil revenues helped fund al-Qaeda (story later corroborated by Claudia Rosett )
Radio Free Europe 9-29-2002
• Khalil Ibrahim Abdallah, a captured senior Iraqi official, said that IIS agents had met with bin Laden until the middle of 1999
Stephen Hayes, Weekly Standard, 11-24-03
• Qassem Hussein Mohamed, who served in Iraq’s Mukhabarat for 20 years, told reporters that Saddam Hussein has been secretly aiding, arming and funding Ansar al Islam and al-Qaeda for several years
Scott Peterson, Christian Science Monitor, 4-2-02
Jeffrey Goldberg, New Yorker, 3-25-02
• Dr. Mohammed al-Masri, a known al-Qaeda spokesman, told the Sunday Times that Saddam Hussein contacted the “Arab Afghans” (al-Qaeda) in 2001. Al-Masri also said that Saddam even went so far as to fund the movement of some al-Qaeda members into Iraq and then later supplied them with arms caches and money, later to be used in insurgent attacks. Abdel Bari Atwan, Sunday Times, 2-26-06 via Thomas Joscelyn, "Saddam, the Insurgency, and the Terrorists, 3-28-06
• Hudayfa Azzam, the son of bin Laden’s former mentor, told reporters in 2004, “Saddam Hussein's regime welcomed them with open arms and young al-Qaeda members entered Iraq in large numbers, setting up an organization to confront the occupation.” AFP, 8-30-04 Thomas Joscelyn, "What Else Did Hudayfa Azzam Have To Say About Al-Qaeda In Iraq?” 4-3-06
• Hudayfa Azzam, the son of bin Laden’s mentor Abdullah Azzam, has said Iraq’s government worked closely with al-Qaeda before the war and welcomed a number of members in after they left Afghanistan and armed and funded them Thomas Joscelyn citing AFP, 8-30-04
• Dr. Mohammed al-Masri, a known al-Qaeda spokesman, told the Sunday Times that Saddam Hussein contacted the “Arab Afghans” (al-Qaeda) in 2001. Abdel Bari Atwan, Sunday Times, 2-26-06 via Thomas Joscelyn, “Saddam, the Insurgency, and the Terrorists,” 3-28-06
• Haqi Ismail, a Mosul native with relatives at the top of Iraq’s Mukhabarat and spent time in al-Qaeda/al Ansar camps in Afghanistan and Northern Iraq before being caught by Kurdish security, indicated that he was working for Saddam Hussein’s Intelligence Service (Mukhabarat)
Jeffrey Goldberg, New Yorker, 3-25-02
• Moammar Ahmad Yussef, a captured deputy of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, told officials that Iraq provided money, weapons, fake passports, safe haven and training to al-Qaeda members
Dan Darling, Winds of Change, 11-21-03
• A “top Saddam Hussein official,” who was also a senior Intelligence official, says that Iraq made a secret pact with Ayman al-Zawahiri’s Egyptian Islamic Jihad and later al-Qaeda. Secret meetings between the two sides began in 1992.
Stephen Hayes, Weekly Standard, 11-24-03
• Abu Zubaydah, a high ranking al-Qaeda operative in U.S. custody, has said that Abu Musab al-Zarqawi had good contacts with Iraqi Intelligence Services
Thomas Joscelyn, Weekly Standard, December 2, 2005
• Abu Iman al-Baghdadi, a 20-year veteran of Iraqi intelligence, told BBC news that Saddam Hussein is funding and arming Ansar al-Islam to fend off anti-Saddam Kurds
Jim Muir, BBC, July 24, 2002


I guess they were all lying.

Lots of history revisionists in here.

Sad they don't even know the history. Just the sound bites they have listened to on The Daily Show.

[mojo2]

Originally Posted by ironknee

hey now!

but but...where are the revenues from the oil that were suppose to pay for the war?

Security comes at a price, in this case a cut of the oil revenues.

If anyone has a problem with that they should convince the evil-doers and IED planters to stop their nonsense and the money going to pay for security would be going to pay for the war as well as to pay for the rebuilding of Iraq.

At this rate it seems the only plans being used by the Iraqi jihadist insurgents are copied from the Palestinian blueprints...plans which keep the beleaguered citizens impoverished, manipulated, endangered, dependent and under jihadist control.

[mojo2]

Originally Posted by Kevin

No, no they did not hate each other. I already had a thread on this. If you want to rehash this please read it

http://forums.macnn.com/95/political...aq-supplier/3/

[...]

I guess they were all lying.

Lots of history revisionists in here.

Sad they don't even know the history. Just the sound bites they have listened to on The Daily Show.

Great list. Great post!

[ironknee]

look he can cut and paste

[Spliffdaddy]

look, he smacked some peaceniks down with a simple cut & paste.

GoMac got pwned.

[BRussell]

Originally Posted by Kevin

I guess they were all lying.

That's a pretty good bet. This stuff has either been debunked or gone unverified. Stephen Hayes? Laurie Mylroie? These people make Michael Moore look like George Washington. These are mostly Iraqi National Congress lies told to the willing-to-be-deceived Bush administration in the run-up to the Iraq war.

We've taken a situation where Iraq was in opposition to radical Islamism and made them the new center of it all. We've taken a situation where Iraq was a counterbalance against Iran and made it very likely that in the near future they'll form a true axis of evil.

This war was a disaster not only operationally, but strategically. Does anyone outside of the Bush payroll think otherwise anymore?

[goMac]

Kevin no. You're a moron. The Kurds, who Al Quada was supposedly allied with were the people Sadam was killing. North Iraq is allied with Iran. It doesn't take more than a 2nd grade education to see, even if Al Quada was allied with the Kurds, that Sadam wasn't working with them. In fact, if you are right and Al Quada was working with the Kurds, we took out Al Quada's enemy for them.

You win the self smackdown or the year award, along with the not knowing what you're talking about award.

[Spliffdaddy]

The Kurds love Americans.

PS, you still got pwned.

[ironknee]

however you bush fanboys spin it, iraq was not the top priority in getting osama and the root (a favorite word for the republicans) of the problem

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy

The Kurds love Americans.

PS, you still got pwned.

Well then you should talk to Kevin, because according to his sources, they're allied with Al Queda.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by vmarks

I love how legends form. First there was no Al-Qaeda in Iraq. Then there was, but Saddam, who ruled with an iron fist, didn't control where they were. There was no communication between Al-Qaeda and Saddam because they were enemies, except that we know there was communication.

Each time, the truth gets rewritten.

What you're talking about isn't really legends forming, but people's reality changing, and it happens all the time, on both sides of the political fence, in our societies where we rely on the media and our politicians of choice for frame our political opinions.

Another good example of this is that first Iraq needed to be invaded because we were less than an hour away from WMD attack by Saddam. Then it was to liberate the Iraqi people from Saddam. Then it was because he had the WMD hidden in the desert. And, now, it's that he had connections with Al-Qaeda. And, of course, through it all has been the suggestion of a connection between Saddam and 9/11.

On the Iraq/Al Qaeda connection, I have no doubt they were in communication at some level. What I do not know, and refuse to form an opinion on until better evidence emerges, is the nature of that communication. Obviously, Saddam and Al Qaeda had some common goals, but they also had many opposing goals.

However, it's possible that, as Mojaberdeen says, Saddam and Al Qaeda were able to put aside their differences in pursuit of their common goals. Even the US was able to cooperate with Bin Laden and Saddam in the pursuit of common goals.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by vmarks

I love how legends form. First there was no Al-Qaeda in Iraq. Then there was, but Saddam, who ruled with an iron fist, didn't control where they were. There was no communication between Al-Qaeda and Saddam because they were enemies, except that we know there was communication.

Each time, the truth gets rewritten.

We have been told by Hudayfa Azzam, the son of bin Laden's longtime mentor Abdullah Azzam, that Saddam Hussein welcomed young al Qaeda members "with open arms" before the war, that they "entered Iraq in large numbers, setting up an organization to confront the occupation," and that the regime "strictly and directly" controlled their activities. We have been told by Jordan's King Abdullah that his government knew Abu Musab al Zarqawi was in Iraq before the war and requested that the former Iraqi regime deport him. We have been told by Time magazine that confidential documents from Zarqawi's group, recovered in recent raids, indicate other jihadists had joined him in Baghdad before the Hussein regime fell. We have been told by one of those jihadists that he was with Zarqawi in Baghdad before the war.

No, we know there was no link. First, those links contradict themselves, and go against the last 20 years of history in Iraq, including the Iraq/Iran war, the Gulf War, and the current Civil War in Iraq. The CIA says there was no link. History is trying to be changed in order to justify the Iraq war.

Basically the links are saying that not only was Al Queda allying with Saddam, they were also allying with Saddam's enemies to fight against Saddam. Does this make sense? A 3rd grader could tell you it doesn't. Yet the right stomps their feet and insists it's history. Fortunately 60% of the American public is smarter than that.

[Spliffdaddy]

No, it's only 55%.

You're talking about Dubya's approval rating on the war on terror, right?

[mojo2]

GoMac got pwned.

[Spliffdaddy]

I got pwned once.

no. wait. nevermind.

that wasn't me.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy

No, it's only 55%.

You're talking about Dubya's approval rating on the war on terror, right?

Oh I see. As of yesterday. I apologize for my one day lag in his approval ratings.

[tie]

Originally Posted by Kevin

various discredited quotes from lying sources

If the Kurds are the ones who harbored Al Qaeda, then why aren't we bombing more Kurds?

The only explanation is that the Kurds weren't the ones harboring Al Qaeda. Who is left, but Saddam Hussein? You tell me that!

[Troll]

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy

I got pwned once.

No that was you. It happened when you said that Hezbollah fired missiles into Israel within 22 hours of the ceasefire.

[Troll]

Originally Posted by tie

If the Kurds are the ones who harbored Al Qaeda, then why aren't we bombing more Kurds?

I guess we don't have Kurds in our way.

[mojo2]

Originally Posted by Troll

I guess we don't have Kurds in our way.

Very clever.

Wasn't the spider's motivation to sit beside her to escape a troll?

[Troll]

Originally Posted by mojo2

Very clever.

Wasn't the spider's motivation to sit beside her to escape a troll?

No, no, no. It was the bird that was after the spider, that wriggly, jiggly, tickly spider. And the spider was after the fly. But I don't know why.