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Refuse to be Terrorized
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Landos Mustache
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Aug 24, 2006, 01:30 PM
 
"The point of terrorism is to cause terror, sometimes to further a political goal and sometimes out of sheer hatred. The people terrorists kill are not the targets; they are collateral damage. And blowing up planes, trains, markets or buses is not the goal; those are just tactics."

http://www.wired.com/news/columns/0,...?tw=wn_index_3

I'm surprised people even have to be told this but the way people are giving up their freedoms to the government and acting like total jackasses anytime someone looks at a watch on a plane I guess it does need to be said.

"Hello, what have we here?
     
G Barnett
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Aug 24, 2006, 03:23 PM
 
Here, here!

I refuse to be terrorized. I will not fear them.
And I absolutely will not back down nor surrender any of my country's hard-won freedoms because of them.
Life is like a clay pigeon -- sooner or later, someone is going to shoot you down and even if they miss you'll still wind up shattered and broken in the end.
     
jckalen
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Aug 24, 2006, 03:35 PM
 
G Barnett, are you talking about terrorists or the Bush administration?
It looks just like a telefunken' U-47 - Zappa
     
Uncle Skeleton
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Aug 24, 2006, 03:37 PM
 
Maybe he was talking about the liberal media
     
olePigeon
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Aug 24, 2006, 03:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by jckalen
G Barnett, are you talking about terrorists or the Bush administration?
Depends on which side of the border you're on.
"…I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than
you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods,
you will understand why I dismiss yours." - Stephen F. Roberts
     
Rumor
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Aug 24, 2006, 03:39 PM
 
I've never been terrorized.

I think the term "terrorist" is too easily thrown around now days.
I like my water with hops, malt, hops, yeast, and hops.
     
Oisín
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Aug 24, 2006, 04:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by G Barnett
Here, here!
Gnnngnggkkggaaah!!! *grinds teeth*





Sorry ’bout that. Pet peeve. I’m all better now.
     
G Barnett
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Aug 24, 2006, 04:32 PM
 
Originally Posted by jckalen
G Barnett, are you talking about terrorists or the Bush administration?
Both. One creates the terror and and the other capitalizes on it to push their own agenda.

Nuts to both of 'em.
Life is like a clay pigeon -- sooner or later, someone is going to shoot you down and even if they miss you'll still wind up shattered and broken in the end.
     
G Barnett
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Aug 24, 2006, 04:33 PM
 
Originally Posted by Oisín
Gnnngnggkkggaaah!!! *grinds teeth*





Sorry ’bout that. Pet peeve. I’m all better now.

No, no. I deserve to have been called on that.

I really should know better....
Life is like a clay pigeon -- sooner or later, someone is going to shoot you down and even if they miss you'll still wind up shattered and broken in the end.
     
mojo2
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Aug 24, 2006, 04:43 PM
 
Sods.
Give petty people just a little bit of power and watch how they misuse it! You can't silence the self doubt, can you?
     
moodymonster
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Aug 24, 2006, 04:45 PM
 
When John Major was PM he would frequently walk from No 10 Whitehall to Parliament. This was after the IRA had tried to blow him up in a mortar attack on Downing Street.

These days when ol' Tony travels, roads are closed off etc etc

As has been mentioned in another thread, the Mayor of London, Red Ken, gets on the tube with everyone else...
     
Dakar
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Aug 24, 2006, 04:51 PM
 
Originally Posted by mojo2
Sods.
What, are you out of articles to post?
     
moodymonster
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Aug 24, 2006, 04:58 PM
 
That isn't an ideology, it isn't even a perverted faith - it is just an indiscriminate attempt at mass murder and we know what the objective is. They seek to divide Londoners. They seek to turn Londoners against each other. I said yesterday to the International Olympic Committee, that the city of London is the greatest in the world, because everybody lives side by side in harmony. Londoners will not be divided by this cowardly attack. They will stand together in solidarity alongside those who have been injured and those who have been bereaved and that is why I'm proud to be the mayor of that city.

Finally, I wish to speak directly to those who came to London today to take life.

I know that you personally do not fear giving up your own life in order to take others - that is why you are so dangerous. But I know you fear that you may fail in your long-term objective to destroy our free society and I can show you why you will fail.

In the days that follow look at our airports, look at our sea ports and look at our railway stations and, even after your cowardly attack, you will see that people from the rest of Britain, people from around the world will arrive in London to become Londoners and to fulfil their dreams and achieve their potential.

They choose to come to London, as so many have come before because they come to be free, they come to live the life they choose, they come to be able to be themselves. They flee you because you tell them how they should live. They don't want that and nothing you do, however many of us you kill, will stop that flight to our city where freedom is strong and where people can live in harmony with one another. Whatever you do, however many you kill, you will fail.
Mayor of London, July 7 2005
Mayor of London - Mayor's Statement 7 July 2005
     
mojo2
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Aug 24, 2006, 05:05 PM
 
Originally Posted by Dakar
What, are you out of articles to post?
I'm trying to figure out why they bother you so much.

Attention span of a gnat?

Can't finish one?

Don't like reading, it's too hard? Just not "your thing?"

Can't comprehend?

Video game addicted, articles don't have enough inter-ACTION?

Makes you look bad by comparison because I can always substantiate my claims? R U Lazy?

Like to hide behind ambiguous statements and I set a different standard?

Tell us.
Give petty people just a little bit of power and watch how they misuse it! You can't silence the self doubt, can you?
     
analogika
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Aug 24, 2006, 05:15 PM
 
They're irrelevant, non-sequitur posts of pure blather?
     
mojo2
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Aug 24, 2006, 05:24 PM
 
Originally Posted by analogika
They're irrelevant, non-sequitur posts of pure blather?
Where would I be without my loyal opposition?
Give petty people just a little bit of power and watch how they misuse it! You can't silence the self doubt, can you?
     
G Barnett
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Aug 24, 2006, 05:30 PM
 
You cannot substantiate fear; you can only attempt to keep it going and now I'm beginning to realize that all those articles you post, everything you quote is part of a constant campaign to keep the fear at a fever pitch.

It's something more and more people will be realizing soon enough. A fearful people is easier to control; a fearful people will cede more and more of their freedoms if you promise them security. Your entire political agenda is based on manipulating and sustaining a fear of the other.

For now, it's Islamic terrorists. They're good patsies, I'll give 'em that. They're more than willing to blow up themselves and countless innocents in hopes of manipulating fear on their terms. Of course, that plays right into the hands of this country's right-wing, which has had far more experience in managing and playing upon people's fears.

Funny thing about sustaining fear in a group of people; eventually they tire of it. It's hard work, being afraid all the time. Your nerves fray, you tire easily. After a while, folks grow numb, and the fear becomes a normal background of life, and people return to their normal ways of living. Meanwhile, those who thought they were in control start trying even greater histrionics in a vain attempt to keep the fear going, to keep the people listening to them. It never works, of course. People hear the shrill pronouncements of impending doom and shake their heads, wondering why they gave up so much of their energy being afraid. Control slips away.

You hear that mojo? That's the sound of control slipping away. You've beaten the fear-drum too hard for too long and people aren't buying it anymore.
Life is like a clay pigeon -- sooner or later, someone is going to shoot you down and even if they miss you'll still wind up shattered and broken in the end.
     
Chuckit
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Aug 24, 2006, 05:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by jckalen
G Barnett, are you talking about terrorists or the Bush administration?
I think what G Barnett said should be true of anyone. Nobody should be able to intimidate us into giving up our freedom.
Chuck
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mojo2
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Aug 24, 2006, 05:43 PM
 
Originally Posted by G Barnett
You cannot substantiate fear; you can only attempt to keep it going and now I'm beginning to realize that all those articles you post, everything you quote is part of a constant campaign to keep the fear at a fever pitch.

It's something more and more people will be realizing soon enough. A fearful people is easier to control; a fearful people will cede more and more of their freedoms if you promise them security. Your entire political agenda is based on manipulating and sustaining a fear of the other.

For now, it's Islamic terrorists. They're good patsies, I'll give 'em that. They're more than willing to blow up themselves and countless innocents in hopes of manipulating fear on their terms. Of course, that plays right into the hands of this country's right-wing, which has had far more experience in managing and playing upon people's fears.

Funny thing about sustaining fear in a group of people; eventually they tire of it. It's hard work, being afraid all the time. Your nerves fray, you tire easily. After a while, folks grow numb, and the fear becomes a normal background of life, and people return to their normal ways of living. Meanwhile, those who thought they were in control start trying even greater histrionics in a vain attempt to keep the fear going, to keep the people listening to them. It never works, of course. People hear the shrill pronouncements of impending doom and shake their heads, wondering why they gave up so much of their energy being afraid. Control slips away.

You hear that mojo? That's the sound of control slipping away. You've beaten the fear-drum too hard for too long and people aren't buying it anymore.
You are overly sensitive. Tune out. Turn off your TV and back away from the computer. This is all too much for your sensitive psyche.

I'm talking to the hard heads who are unconvinced there is any threat from Islamic jihad.

If you already understand then disregard my warnings.

And I feel compassion for you that this didn't occur to you before now.
Give petty people just a little bit of power and watch how they misuse it! You can't silence the self doubt, can you?
     
G Barnett
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Aug 24, 2006, 05:45 PM
 
What didn't occur to me until just now is that you are in your own way, just as bad as the jihadists. Sure, you don't encourage people to blow themselves up, but you're taking advantage of the fear created in exactly the same way and for exactly the same means.

I reject them, I reject you, I reject the fear.

And I reject your false compassion. Condescension is never compassionate.
Life is like a clay pigeon -- sooner or later, someone is going to shoot you down and even if they miss you'll still wind up shattered and broken in the end.
     
Spliffdaddy
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Aug 24, 2006, 09:00 PM
 
If you folks had a shovel, then you could bury your heads even further in the sand.
     
Dakar
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Aug 24, 2006, 09:29 PM
 
Originally Posted by mojo2
I'm trying to figure out why they bother you so much.

Attention span of a gnat?

Can't finish one?

Don't like reading, it's too hard? Just not "your thing?"

Can't comprehend?

Video game addicted, articles don't have enough inter-ACTION?

Makes you look bad by comparison because I can always substantiate my claims? R U Lazy?

Like to hide behind ambiguous statements and I set a different standard?

Tell us.
I'd take this on seriously, but you can't be trusted to reply in kind.
     
Kevin
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Aug 24, 2006, 09:47 PM
 
I am not terrorized. But I am also not so self deluding to believe there is no terrorist problem. Or that they have no rhyme or reason.
     
G Barnett
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Aug 25, 2006, 01:07 AM
 
Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy
If you folks had a shovel, then you could bury your heads even further in the sand.
Do you even know what it's like to live every single day of your life with fear as a constant companion? I can't imagine that you do, otherwise you'd know you have to face it down and beat it back every single time it rears its head, lest you become paralyzed and unable to even function. But, no, you conservatives constantly insist on public policies built around fear, you compromise your rights and my rights every single chance you get because you can't even try to face fear.

You'd rather huddle behind an authoritarian "protectorship" government than actually go out into the world and face the fact that life involves risk. You'd give up all the freedoms we have for the ludicrous illusions of safety and security. That attitude disgusts me. It's abhorrent to me.

And yes, before you ask, before you even think to turn the question above back on me -- I DO live with constant fear every day. I have an autistic spectrum disorder; I'm what's known as a "high-functioning" autistic, because I'm not totally withdrawn into myself. Every time I go out, every time I see the face of a stranger, every time I make the mistake of meeting someone else's gaze I feel this uncontrollable wave of terror wash over me. Adrenaline surges through me for no reason other than I looked upon someone else's face and they looked at me.

But you know what? I go out. I hold down a normal job, one in which I actually have to talk to people for eight long hours a day. I walk down the streets of the city at lunch when they're teeming with other people. I fight every single day to lead as normal a life as is possible for me and I never ever let my fears control me and keep me from living.

So don't even pull that "bury your head in the sand" baloney, because you're the ones hiding behind a burgeoning police state. You're the ones who are letting transient fears control every thought you have, every action you take. That's why I'll never vote Republican, never call myself a conservative -- because you're WEAK. You're COWARDS.

Show the terrorists that they cannot control you. Defy them. LIVE. Or get the hell outta my face and hide in a little bunker up in the mountains where the terrorist boogeymen can't get you.
Life is like a clay pigeon -- sooner or later, someone is going to shoot you down and even if they miss you'll still wind up shattered and broken in the end.
     
spacefreak
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Aug 25, 2006, 04:04 AM
 
Originally Posted by G Barnett
But, no, you conservatives constantly insist on public policies built around fear, you compromise your rights and my rights every single chance you get because you can't even try to face fear.
What rights of yours have been compromised? It sounds like you're the one in fear.

You'd rather huddle behind an authoritarian "protectorship" government than actually go out into the world and face the fact that life involves risk. You'd give up all the freedoms we have for the ludicrous illusions of safety and security. That attitude disgusts me. It's abhorrent to me.
What garbage. Safety and security aren't illusions. They are to be worked for, achieved, and maintained. Without either, there can be no economic stability for the masses.

So don't even pull that "bury your head in the sand" baloney, because you're the ones hiding behind a burgeoning police state. You're the ones who are letting transient fears control every thought you have, every action you take. That's why I'll never vote Republican, never call myself a conservative -- because you're WEAK. You're COWARDS.

Show the terrorists that they cannot control you. Defy them. LIVE. Or get the hell outta my face and hide in a little bunker up in the mountains where the terrorist boogeymen can't get you.
Again, you seem a lot more fearful than those to whom you're talking down. And your calling those who elect to return the fight against an enemy that has been fighting us for decades "COWARDS" is absolutely ridiculous.
     
Kevin
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Aug 25, 2006, 06:41 AM
 
Yeah um doing something about terrorism is not them controlling us.

"G Barnett" that post of yours was awfully fuzzy.
     
G Barnett
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Aug 25, 2006, 07:50 AM
 
Originally Posted by spacefreak
What rights of yours have been compromised? It sounds like you're the one in fear.

What garbage. Safety and security aren't illusions. They are to be worked for, achieved, and maintained. Without either, there can be no economic stability for the masses.

Again, you seem a lot more fearful than those to whom you're talking down. And your calling those who elect to return the fight against an enemy that has been fighting us for decades "COWARDS" is absolutely ridiculous.
I'm calling you cowards because your chosen leader is lashing out blindly, without though, without plan without even really knowing what the hell he's doing. Those are the actions of a bully, the actions of a fearful man who has to show just how much tougher and meaner he is than anyone else on the block.

We're led by a cadre of unrepentant thugs, no better than the ones they're fighting against. And you guys want to support them unconditionally. That is true cowardice.

And Kevin, when a country reacts in a way that is guaranteed to incite more terrorists to take up arms, then yes, they're controlling us, and they're doing a damn good job of it. They certainly goaded us into giving them the sort of bloodbath in Iraq that will provide them with new recruits for years to come.

Finally, fearful? Me? What a crock. You have no freaking clue what you're talking about. If I was the sort to give into my fear, I'd be a totally withdrawn shut-in, lost somewhere in my own head in a care facility somewhere, having totally given up on trying to be a social person.

Have fun in your bunkers. I'll be out here facing the world and living.
Life is like a clay pigeon -- sooner or later, someone is going to shoot you down and even if they miss you'll still wind up shattered and broken in the end.
     
ebuddy
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Aug 25, 2006, 08:51 AM
 
Originally Posted by G Barnett
Do you even know what it's like to live every single day of your life with fear as a constant companion? I can't imagine that you do, otherwise you'd know you have to face it down and beat it back every single time it rears its head, lest you become paralyzed and unable to even function. But, no, you conservatives...
I was with you with the whole neo-con military complex ideals of "beating 'em back" and "facing it down" because it is the Conservatives that have taken that mantra and given it meaning. We believe in beating 'em back away from our country. We believe in facing them down. Our economy while having hiccuped slightly is now in a stronger condition than ever. As a country, we've shown mightily resilient... for the first couple of months after 9/11. Now we're back to armchair quarterbacking. You lost me at the sweeping broad-brush generalization of "you conservatives".

constantly insist on public policies built around fear, you compromise your rights and my rights every single chance you get because you can't even try to face fear.
What rights have you lost as a result of the Patriot Act? What rights have you lost to wire tapping? The rights to make International calls to suspected terrorist organizations? The right to host websites on how to make IED's? Please tell me what rights you've lost under the present authoritarian government that you've had in this country historically? And don't give me this crap about privacy brother, every-time you pull out that VISA card at the grocery store they've got more information on you than your own mother and I don't see you cryin' about that.

You'd rather huddle behind an authoritarian "protectorship" government than actually go out into the world and face the fact that life involves risk.
I'll remember that when you put on your helmet to ride your mountain bike or renew your various insurance policies and lock your doors at night. What are you, a chicken shxt?

You'd give up all the freedoms we have for the ludicrous illusions of safety and security. That attitude disgusts me. It's abhorrent to me.
The hamburger and french fry, microwave meal, want everything yesterday society where we all sing kumbaya around a bonfire of complacency hoping the entire world will just leave us alone makes me sick to my stomach also. Welcome to club abhorrent.

And yes, before you ask, before you even think to turn the question above back on me -- I DO live with constant fear every day. I have an autistic spectrum disorder; I'm what's known as a "high-functioning" autistic, because I'm not totally withdrawn into myself. Every time I go out, every time I see the face of a stranger, every time I make the mistake of meeting someone else's gaze I feel this uncontrollable wave of terror wash over me. Adrenaline surges through me for no reason other than I looked upon someone else's face and they looked at me.

But you know what? I go out. I hold down a normal job, one in which I actually have to talk to people for eight long hours a day. I walk down the streets of the city at lunch when they're teeming with other people. I fight every single day to lead as normal a life as is possible for me and I never ever let my fears control me and keep me from living.
This is good. Then you'll realize from being among the teeming activity of others on their way to work that you're not alone. Your fears have not paralyzed you and their "fears" of terror have obviously not paralyzed them. Some of them with problems they're facing everyday as well.

So don't even pull that "bury your head in the sand" baloney, because you're the ones hiding behind a burgeoning police state. You're the ones who are letting transient fears control every thought you have, every action you take. That's why I'll never vote Republican, never call myself a conservative -- because you're WEAK. You're COWARDS.
I'd appreciate it if you spoke for yourself my fellow MacNN partisan hack. The Patriot Act, originally drafted by Joe Lieberman (D), enjoyed majority support from both dems and republicans. Who to vote for now? How long have you been crying about civil liberties? Why single out "those Conservatives"? President Carter (D) issued an executive order on May 23, 1979, stating, "Pursuant to Section 102(a)(1) of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 (50 U.S.C. 1802(a)), the Attorney General is authorized to approve electronic surveillance to acquire foreign intelligence information without a court order." Is this the "burgeoning police state" you speak of?

Show the terrorists that they cannot control you.
Done. I will insult them, call them out, support those who seek them out, and eliminate them one by one if necessary.

Defy them.
Done.

LIVE. Or get the hell outta my face and hide in a little bunker up in the mountains where the terrorist boogeymen can't get you.
You seem to think people are not living and yet, EUREKA! People living all around you, walking, talking, working... We're living rather well thank you. Get the hell outta my face with this BS or go sing kumbaya around a campfire in Beirut.
ebuddy
     
ebuddy
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Aug 25, 2006, 09:10 AM
 
Originally Posted by G Barnett
I'm calling you cowards because your chosen leader is lashing out blindly, without though, without plan without even really knowing what the hell he's doing.
...and I suppose you're a military expert now?

Those are the actions of a bully,
those are the actions of resolve.

the actions of a fearful man
No, these are the actions of a man with resolve and 299,562,801 people looking at him as if to say; "what are you going to do about this?!?" Though, some were salivating for the opportunity for Bush to act so they could react, these people I find most abhorrent!

who has to show just how much tougher and meaner he is than anyone else on the block.
More partisan quackery as duped by midnight negotiations of a party he likely votes for without batting an eyelash. You're as delusional as they come with this.

We're led by a cadre of unrepentant thugs, no better than the ones they're fighting against. And you guys want to support them unconditionally. That is true cowardice.
There are things for which I oppose this Administration and I've asked many a question about how they fight this battle, but there's one thing I'm most certain of; this world will come to a head of ideals, make no mistake about it. Choose your system of government now. If you're ideals are solely contingent upon whether there's a (D) or an (R) after the representative's name, you've already proven more mentally handicapped by partisanship than any physical obstacle you face.

And Kevin, when a country reacts in a way that is guaranteed to incite more terrorists to take up arms,
Wrong. The terrorists incited more Americans to take up arms.

then yes, they're controlling us, and they're doing a damn good job of it.
They're not controlling a damn thing we don't elect them to control. You may have to vote for moderate Dems or moderate Reps, but to say "this is why I'll never vote Republican" proves to me you've already fallen prey to the paralysis of intellectual laziness!

They certainly goaded us into giving them the sort of bloodbath in Iraq that will provide them with new recruits for years to come.
It'll be a bloodbath either way brother. Either way. I choose the possibility of handling much of this before my grandchildren are old enough to arm themselves.

Finally, fearful? Me? What a crock. You have no freaking clue what you're talking about. If I was the sort to give into my fear, I'd be a totally withdrawn shut-in, lost somewhere in my own head in a care facility somewhere, having totally given up on trying to be a social person.
While I'm happy for you that you have overcome the obstacles of your condition and appreciate your contribution to society in spite, I find some additional introspect might be in order for you. Your ideals are as archaic and simpleton as I've seen.

Have fun in your bunkers. I'll be out here facing the world and living.
... in your bunker of partisan closed-mindedness and ignorance.
ebuddy
     
besson3c
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Aug 25, 2006, 09:52 AM
 
I agree with Barnett.


What are we so afraid of? Freedoms are not unique to America, and have been around for what... a century? Why do you guys feel that they are so fragile? Do you really think that a terrorist population poses a threat to the freedoms of pretty much every (free) first world country in the world?

Where there is money and wealth there is power. The free nations of the world rule the world, not the terrorists, and to think that a population of terrorists can physically take away the freedoms from the U.S., India, Japan, Canada, Europe, etc. is downright paranoid, IMHO.

Really, what is happening here is that our fears are being manipulated for the political gain of a group of politicians. Yes we were attacked on Sept 11, 2001, and yes terrorism has become a growing problem, but let's keep it in perspective, please. It has dominated the news for far too long, I'm growing sick of it. There are many problems a nation faces, terrorism is but one of these problems.

You can pound your chest and rant and rave about how much of a threat terrorism is to us, how important it is to us, etc., and I'm sure you will. Some of us choose to take this in stride and not completely freak out over this issue (which, BTW, is nothing new, nor does it represent a threat when you look at it statistically too).

Is anyone else growing sick of debating this issue?
     
G Barnett
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Aug 25, 2006, 10:21 AM
 
I have zero problems with choosing targets carefully, with taking out known terrorists with all due discrimination and precision. Thing is, that's not what your leaders have been doing. They're indiscriminate, using excessive force and targeting all the wrong areas.

They should be watching, waiting, using the legal tools they already have and trying the best they can to stop terrorists before they can act. It won't always work and sometimes something will get through. When that happens, they should go in and deal with the ones known to be responsible and only them. Not some country that is at best peripherally related. Above all, you do it without fanfare, without noise and without doing anything to bring attention to your enemies and their agendas.

The idea of living a fearless life is that of being an example to others. It is not, and never will be, about forcefully trying to change the world to be the way you want it to be. Lashing out and destroying other nations without any thought to the consequences is the act of a fearful people.

More simply then. Conservatives fear what they cannot control, and so they attempt to control everything. It is better and more rational to accept that there are always things that will be outside that control; certainly, you can and should minimize certain risks by taking simple, basic precautions. Your insurance and bike helmet non-sequitur falls into this category. Even terrorism falls into this category, albeit as an example on the far extreme. Its risks can certainly be minimized, but controlled and eradicated? Delusion. On the other hand, if something you cannot control poses no risk, then it is inconsequential and can be ignored.

Histrionics and military & legislative overreaction are counterproductive. Tarring an entire people for the misdeeds of a deranged few is counterproductive. They are all, however, the products of irrational fear run out of control.
Life is like a clay pigeon -- sooner or later, someone is going to shoot you down and even if they miss you'll still wind up shattered and broken in the end.
     
Landos Mustache  (op)
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Aug 25, 2006, 11:00 AM
 
Do any of you Americans honestly believe that before 9/11 OBL is sitting in Afghanistan thinking to himself that out of the whole world the US is the one with the most freedom and he wants to kill just a couple a few thousand Americans with an attack? Did he think America would be less free by knocking down some buildings and killing a few thousand?

No, he is not stupid, the people who think that are.

The key word is "Terror" not killing. He knew Americans would do all the work for him after 9/11.

What happened after this ONE attack?

1) US economy dives
2) The airline business crashes.
3) The US implements racial profiling
4) The US world perception goes even further down
5) Gas prices rise to recored highs and stay there
6) It spawns 2 wars
7) The US spends trillions in the wars
8) The majority of the US population does not support their own president
9) Wire tapping of Americans
10) Thousands more Americans killed in the wars
11) Americans living in a constant state of fear
12) Americans giving up their rights and freedoms to feel "protected"
13) Americans torturing prisoners just like the "evil enemy"
14) People expressing their "Freedom" by discriminating against other Americans who look dark skinned.
15) All the money and technology in the world cannot find the most wanted man in the world.
16) Iraq on the verge of civil war. Civilians not supporting the US.

The list goes on and on and on.

So OBL is a smart man, he had Americans do all the hard work for him and it is working out better than he could have ever imagined.

So great job guys, keep it up if you want him to be even more victorious.

P.S. It is strange how this is all playing out exactly like the storyline of DS9 for anyone who watched it. The federation gets one attack from a new enemy creating extreme paranoia. The federation wants to create martial law, ends up going to war with allies, loses millions of lives, goes to war with more previous allies all while the real bad guy sits back and watches their enemy slowly destroy themselves without having to do more then imply a threat.

"Hello, what have we here?
     
spacefreak
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Aug 25, 2006, 03:42 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c
You can pound your chest and rant and rave about how much of a threat terrorism is to us, how important it is to us, etc., and I'm sure you will. Some of us choose to take this in stride and not completely freak out over this issue (which, BTW, is nothing new, nor does it represent a threat when you look at it statistically too).
Reading through your posts, you are the one who appears to be freaking out over this issue.

"Our rights are being taken away..."
Other than waiting a little longer to board a plane, your rights and life haven't been affected one bit (which, BTW, is nothing new, nor does it represent a threat when you look at it statistically too).

It's lame that you would prefer us to sit idle while our enemies wage war against us.
     
Dork.
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Aug 25, 2006, 03:52 PM
 
Originally Posted by Landos Mustache
P.S. It is strange how this is all playing out exactly like the storyline of DS9 for anyone who watched it. The federation gets one attack from a new enemy creating extreme paranoia. The federation wants to create martial law, ends up going to war with allies, loses millions of lives, goes to war with more previous allies all while the real bad guy sits back and watches their enemy slowly destroy themselves without having to do more then imply a threat.
Heh. My wife has been going through the DS9 series on netflix (I don't have the time to watch, since the Mets are doing so darn good!), and she's noticed the same thing. The series, which is a few years old now, seems like it's written right from today's headlines!
     
Landos Mustache  (op)
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Aug 25, 2006, 04:11 PM
 
Originally Posted by spacefreak
Reading through your posts, you are the one who appears to be freaking out over this issue.

"Our rights are being taken away..."
Other than waiting a little longer to board a plane, your rights and life haven't been affected one bit (which, BTW, is nothing new, nor does it represent a threat when you look at it statistically too).

It's lame that you would prefer us to sit idle while our enemies wage war against us.
He is Canadian and he has no enemy's waging war against him

"Hello, what have we here?
     
ink
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Aug 25, 2006, 04:19 PM
 
Originally Posted by Landos Mustache
So OBL is a smart man, he had Americans do all the hard work for him and it is working out better than he could have ever imagined.

So great job guys, keep it up if you want him to be even more victorious.

P.S. It is strange how this is all playing out exactly like the storyline of DS9 for anyone who watched it. The federation gets one attack from a new enemy creating extreme paranoia. The federation wants to create martial law, ends up going to war with allies, loses millions of lives, goes to war with more previous allies all while the real bad guy sits back and watches their enemy slowly destroy themselves without having to do more then imply a threat.
Yep.

Maybe that's why I don't understand the whole Iraq thing; I've been tainted by Deep Space Nine.
     
besson3c
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Aug 25, 2006, 05:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by Landos Mustache
Do any of you Americans honestly believe that before 9/11 OBL is sitting in Afghanistan thinking to himself that out of the whole world the US is the one with the most freedom and he wants to kill just a couple a few thousand Americans with an attack? Did he think America would be less free by knocking down some buildings and killing a few thousand?

No, he is not stupid, the people who think that are.

The key word is "Terror" not killing. He knew Americans would do all the work for him after 9/11.

What happened after this ONE attack?

1) US economy dives
2) The airline business crashes.
3) The US implements racial profiling
4) The US world perception goes even further down
5) Gas prices rise to recored highs and stay there
6) It spawns 2 wars
7) The US spends trillions in the wars
8) The majority of the US population does not support their own president
9) Wire tapping of Americans
10) Thousands more Americans killed in the wars
11) Americans living in a constant state of fear
12) Americans giving up their rights and freedoms to feel "protected"
13) Americans torturing prisoners just like the "evil enemy"
14) People expressing their "Freedom" by discriminating against other Americans who look dark skinned.
15) All the money and technology in the world cannot find the most wanted man in the world.
16) Iraq on the verge of civil war. Civilians not supporting the US.

The list goes on and on and on.

So OBL is a smart man, he had Americans do all the hard work for him and it is working out better than he could have ever imagined.

So great job guys, keep it up if you want him to be even more victorious.

P.S. It is strange how this is all playing out exactly like the storyline of DS9 for anyone who watched it. The federation gets one attack from a new enemy creating extreme paranoia. The federation wants to create martial law, ends up going to war with allies, loses millions of lives, goes to war with more previous allies all while the real bad guy sits back and watches their enemy slowly destroy themselves without having to do more then imply a threat.


Very interesting theory. Thanks!
     
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Aug 25, 2006, 05:38 PM
 
P.S. It is strange how this is all playing out exactly like the storyline of DS9 for anyone who watched it. The federation gets one attack from a new enemy creating extreme paranoia. The federation wants to create martial law, ends up going to war with allies, loses millions of lives, goes to war with more previous allies all while the real bad guy sits back and watches their enemy slowly destroy themselves without having to do more then imply a threat.
Maybe OBL is a DS9 fan?
I like my water with hops, malt, hops, yeast, and hops.
     
Spliffdaddy
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Aug 25, 2006, 05:40 PM
 
Thank God some of you weren't around during World War 2.

edited:

Well, some of you were. In France.
     
Chuckit
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Aug 25, 2006, 05:50 PM
 
We actually fought the people that attacked us in World War II, not other nations that happened to belong to a closely related religion.
Chuck
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"Instead of either 'multi-talented' or 'multitalented' use 'bisexual'."
     
Spliffdaddy
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Aug 25, 2006, 05:55 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chuckit
We actually fought the people that attacked us in World War II, not other nations that happened to belong to a closely related religion.
I thought we firebombed and nuked innocent civilians.

maybe I heard that wrong.
     
Kevin
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Aug 25, 2006, 07:09 PM
 
Originally Posted by Landos Mustache
He is Canadian and he has no enemy's waging war against him
Yes, that is why people were planning terrorist attacks against Canada....
     
Kevin
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Aug 25, 2006, 07:10 PM
 
Originally Posted by Landos Mustache
Do any of you Americans honestly believe that before 9/11 OBL is sitting in Afghanistan thinking to himself that out of the whole world the US is the one with the most freedom and he wants to kill just a couple a few thousand Americans with an attack? Did he think America would be less free by knocking down some buildings and killing a few thousand?

No, he is not stupid, the people who think that are.

The key word is "Terror" not killing. He knew Americans would do all the work for him after 9/11.

What happened after this ONE attack?

1) US economy dives
2) The airline business crashes.
3) The US implements racial profiling
4) The US world perception goes even further down
5) Gas prices rise to recored highs and stay there
6) It spawns 2 wars
7) The US spends trillions in the wars
8) The majority of the US population does not support their own president
9) Wire tapping of Americans
10) Thousands more Americans killed in the wars
11) Americans living in a constant state of fear
12) Americans giving up their rights and freedoms to feel "protected"
13) Americans torturing prisoners just like the "evil enemy"
14) People expressing their "Freedom" by discriminating against other Americans who look dark skinned.
15) All the money and technology in the world cannot find the most wanted man in the world.
16) Iraq on the verge of civil war. Civilians not supporting the US.

The list goes on and on and on.

So OBL is a smart man, he had Americans do all the hard work for him and it is working out better than he could have ever imagined.

So great job guys, keep it up if you want him to be even more victorious.

P.S. It is strange how this is all playing out exactly like the storyline of DS9 for anyone who watched it. The federation gets one attack from a new enemy creating extreme paranoia. The federation wants to create martial law, ends up going to war with allies, loses millions of lives, goes to war with more previous allies all while the real bad guy sits back and watches their enemy slowly destroy themselves without having to do more then imply a threat.
What a crack pot theory you got yourself there.
     
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Aug 25, 2006, 07:12 PM
 
Originally Posted by Kevin
What a crack pot theory you got yourself there.
Though it makes sense.
I like my water with hops, malt, hops, yeast, and hops.
     
Kevin
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Aug 25, 2006, 07:17 PM
 
Not really.

For example, gas prices. WWAAAY before 9/11 in the 90s the Clinton Administration was warning that gas was going to go up real soon. They said past $3. It even got up to $1.99 here before Bush was in office.

Unless you want to start a NEW crack-pot theory that the Clinton administration KNEW that 9/11 was gonna happen, and planned it!!1

     
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Aug 25, 2006, 07:36 PM
 
What else do you contest?
I like my water with hops, malt, hops, yeast, and hops.
     
spacefreak
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Aug 25, 2006, 09:32 PM
 
Originally Posted by G Barnett
Bush is evil, blah, blah, blah
It's a shame that you are miserable, and that you are scared of big bad George Bush. It's also a shame that you prefer the US to sit idle and let our enemies wage war against us.

What's not a shame is that you and your ilk are nowhere near the Oval Office. What a disaster that would be.

Oh - there's really no need to tell us about how "social" you are in post after post. The more you try to prove your social awesomeness, the less believable it becomes.
     
besson3c
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Aug 25, 2006, 09:55 PM
 
Originally Posted by spacefreak
It's a shame that you are miserable, and that you are scared of big bad George Bush. It's also a shame that you prefer the US to sit idle and let our enemies wage war against us.

What's not a shame is that you and your ilk are nowhere near the Oval Office. What a disaster that would be.

Oh - there's really no need to tell us about how "social" you are in post after post. The more you try to prove your social awesomeness, the less believable it becomes.


What good does losing sleep and being intensely fearful (as you seem to be) do for us? All Barnett was offering was a little perspective, and I wish that people like you would grow tired of your constant "don't you love America?" and "do you want us to get attacked and all DIE?" variants?
     
Spliffdaddy
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Aug 25, 2006, 10:39 PM
 
The easiest way to explain it would be to suggest that millions of soldiers would not have died in WW2 if, say, France or England would have fought the Nazis *early*, instead of signing peace accords, which allowed Germany to build up its arsenal.

What Dubya believes is that if we fight the Islamic terrorists *now* it will make it easier than waiting until they're better prepared.

Sure, we could just sit on our asses for the next few years and pretend everything is OK - but then it would make the fight many times more difficult, or impossible.

We walked away from Korea - and pretended it wasn't a big deal. Now we have a nuclear-armed N Korea. It would have been easier to win that war decades ago than it is now.

Iraq has quite a lot to do with the 'war on terror' - and if we walk away without winning, it would send a clear message to all our enemies that we don't have the courage, patience, or ability to fight them effectively.
     
besson3c
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Aug 25, 2006, 10:44 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy
The easiest way to explain it would be to suggest that millions of soldiers would not have died in WW2 if, say, France or England would have fought the Nazis *early*, instead of signing peace accords, which allowed Germany to build up its arsenal.

What Dubya believes is that if we fight the Islamic terrorists *now* it will make it easier than waiting until they're better prepared.

Sure, we could just sit on our asses for the next few years and pretend everything is OK - but then it would make the fight many times more difficult, or impossible.

Except, instead of a nationally funded army with tens of thousands of soldiers that want us dead, it's a group of terrorists probably in the 100s or 1000s who actively wish us dead. Once we know their exact whereabouts, it wouldn't even take a third of our army to wipe them away.

The challenging is the planning, the intellligence gathering, and the execution - not the brawn. The terrorists are resourceful, but not overwhelmingly mighty, so your WWII comparison is pretty flawed, IMHO.
     
 
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