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You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Political/War Lounge > You can't board the plane wearing a shirt with Arabic Script

You can't board the plane wearing a shirt with Arabic Script
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Rumor
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Aug 24, 2006, 04:02 PM
 
Untitled Document

I feel bad for the guy. People really irk me sometimes. "He has a shirt with Arabic scipt, he must be a terrorist!" This seems a little overboard to me.
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mojo2
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Aug 24, 2006, 05:09 PM
 
Originally Posted by Rumor
Untitled Document

I feel bad for the guy. People really irk me sometimes. "He has a shirt with Arabic scipt, he must be a terrorist!" This seems a little overboard to me.
How much was he HOPING to test the system? Was he hoping to be arrested? 15 minutes of fame? Jihad of the shirt?
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Landos Mustache
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Aug 24, 2006, 05:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by mojo2
How much was he HOPING to test the system? Was he hoping to be arrested? 15 minutes of fame? Jihad of the shirt?
Who cares. It shouldn't have happened.

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Doofy
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Aug 24, 2006, 05:27 PM
 
Apparently, the shirt said "we will not be silent".

Let's look at that. If it's supposed to be a message to other people, it fails dramatically because it's not in English. If it's supposed to be a message only to other people who read arabic, then it's bordering on promoting discord and animosity towards the "host" country.
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mojo2
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Aug 24, 2006, 05:36 PM
 
Originally Posted by Landos Mustache
Who cares. It shouldn't have happened.
Ok. Imagine this.

Homeland security and law enforcement all over the world has applied greater pressure on terrorists and would be terrorists and the need for the terrorists to try to communicate and coordinate is greater than before but also more difficult than before.

Investigators have disclosed that there are times when members of an operation have no contact with each other until maybe the day of the operation. If you ever saw the Thomas Crown Affair you'll see how each member of the crime team had no knowledge of each other and only met while carrying out THEIR part of the crime.

It's a smart way to prevent detection and to limit the danger to the other operatives and makes it more difficult for the good guys before or after the event.

So, when the time and day arrives and two or more terrorists only know what they are supposed to do once they see the man with the Arabic script on his shirt, then preventing the man with the shirt from boarding is not a dumb thing to do at all.

And what if the script ACTUALLY has instructions for carrying out the attack which only the other attackers (who've never before met) or someone who reads Arabic, can understand?

Better safe than sorry.
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davesimondotcom
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Aug 24, 2006, 05:41 PM
 
I can't imagine there is enough room on that T-shirt to provide instructions for an attack. And it says it's message in two languages.

I think this is an overreaction.
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porieux
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Aug 24, 2006, 05:49 PM
 
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Aug 24, 2006, 05:50 PM
 
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mojo2
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Aug 24, 2006, 05:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by porieux
Analyze it all you want. The fact is that NOTHING could be written on a shirt that could ever constitute a valid threat to anyone. Period.
I would teach you some painful lessons if you were a cop and I were a terrorist.
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mojo2
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Aug 24, 2006, 05:57 PM
 
Originally Posted by porieux
That'd idiotic. The 'symbol' could just as easily be something that nobody would suspect. Duh!
You are talking about things from a limited frame of reference. When you remove any other methods of communicating with others the ones under scrutiny are forced to become creative.

POW's in Viet Nam invented a code to communicate even though they were physically separated from each other.

When I was in boot camp we were kept quiet for extended periods of time and one of the other recruits taught me the ASL alphabet and we signed messages to each other without the D.I. or anyone knowing we were even talking.

No offense porieux, but I'd stick to whatever you are good at.

Because this ain't it.
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OreoCookie
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Aug 24, 2006, 05:57 PM
 
Originally Posted by mojo2
Ok. Imagine this.
Ok, figure out this: how many actual terrorists have worn such a T-Shirt or any type of clothing that is out of the ordinary?
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porieux
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Aug 24, 2006, 05:59 PM
 
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Aug 24, 2006, 06:01 PM
 
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analogika
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Aug 24, 2006, 06:02 PM
 
There is no way to justify this idiocy.

Why even bother trying?
     
mojo2
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Aug 24, 2006, 06:03 PM
 
Originally Posted by davesimondotcom
I can't imagine there is enough room on that T-shirt to provide instructions for an attack. And it says it's message in two languages.

I think this is an overreaction.
Could be. But do you want to gamble with the lives of a couple hundred people on the plane and however many on the ground, not to mention living with the ignominy and last, if not least, the loss of your job?

Safe, not sorry.
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mojo2
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Aug 24, 2006, 06:05 PM
 
Originally Posted by porieux
You are also wrong about this. You would definitely think twice if you saw me in person.

Tough man over anonymous chat == pussy in real life.
Silly man. Brains will beat brawn.

I'm smarter than you, have a greater imagination and am less controlled by my emotions.
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mojo2
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Aug 24, 2006, 06:06 PM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie
Ok, figure out this: how many actual terrorists have worn such a T-Shirt or any type of clothing that is out of the ordinary?
Go back to the lab and figure out how many planes were crashed into buildings before the first ones.
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porieux
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Aug 24, 2006, 06:10 PM
 
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mojo2
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Aug 24, 2006, 06:13 PM
 
Originally Posted by porieux
Yeah...you are really proving that here
Yes. I know you must feel frustrated.
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Aug 24, 2006, 06:14 PM
 
The shirt comes from here, aawnyc.org.

AAW STATEMENT
We deplore the death, destruction and lawlessness that the "coalition of the willing" unleashed with its invasion of Iraq. We are shamed by our government's contempt for other cultures and the silencing of dissent in America. We remain deeply concerned about the threat to human life in the Middle East and to the world's memory and history embedded in Iraq. We dramatize our outrage through ongoing visual actions. Sometimes small movements, a ripple can express the collective indignation of a community.
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porieux
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Aug 24, 2006, 06:15 PM
 
...
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OreoCookie
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Aug 24, 2006, 06:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by mojo2
Go back to the lab and figure out how many planes were crashed into buildings before the first ones.
All you do is waste resources which are necessary to find real terrorists.
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davesimondotcom
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Aug 24, 2006, 07:45 PM
 
The burning question is, can you wear a shirt on a plane with AppleScript?
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wallinbl
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Aug 24, 2006, 08:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by mojo2
Could be. But do you want to gamble with the lives of a couple hundred people on the plane and however many on the ground, not to mention living with the ignominy and last, if not least, the loss of your job?

Safe, not sorry.
Are you that much of a racist? Does the use of arabic language immediately constitute a terrorist? Sorry, but you don't get to be a racist in the name of safety. Many of us would prefer to be killed than to have to resort to such things. If you go much further down that path, we are no longer free.
     
vmarks
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Aug 24, 2006, 08:13 PM
 
Originally Posted by davesimondotcom
The burning question is, can you wear a shirt on a plane with AppleScript?
Tell application "DaveSimonDotCom"
Tell front document
set tshirt to entry named "tshirt"
set airplane to entry named "airplane"

set no to a reference to note of tshirt
set note of airplane to no
end tell
end tell
     
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Aug 24, 2006, 08:30 PM
 


Jesus would probably be denied boarding on a plane, would be locked up, and maybe even beheaded if he was in the Middle East - or sent to Guantanamo if he tried to board in the U.S.

     
Doofy
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Aug 24, 2006, 08:37 PM
 
Originally Posted by wallinbl
Are you that much of a racist?
Do you know what race Mojo is? No? Then your accusation of racism is itself racist.

Originally Posted by wallinbl
Does the use of arabic language immediately constitute a terrorist? Sorry, but you don't get to be a racist in the name of safety.
Language ≠ race.

If you have a message to tell people in the US, use English.
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besson3c
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Aug 24, 2006, 08:43 PM
 
Yeah, that Jesus guy is something else.

What are we talking about again?
     
Gamoe
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Aug 24, 2006, 08:55 PM
 
For those who believe in the Constitution of the United States and the inalienable rights which it acknowledges there should be no question of whether the man should have been able to wear the shirt or not.

Originally Posted by davesimondotcom
The burning question is, can you wear a shirt on a plane with AppleScript?
Although you probably say it in jest, this is actually a serious question to consider. AppleScript is pretty English-readable, but what about a less easily-readable way computer language? Maybe even binary code. That could definitely be a "sign" for would-be terrorists.

Also, it's pretty sad that the airport did not have an Arabic translator. And I ask you-- How could this guy have been a threat anyway, after having been searched and cleared? And lastly, do you really believe that the American public would allow another hijacking? Please. The passengers would restrain a threatening individual on site.

And I don't know if you guys realize it, but that kind of incident is exactly the kind of thing that justifies that kind of sentiment written on the shirt. "We will not be silent." because they're trying to shut us up.
     
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Aug 24, 2006, 09:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by porieux
Analyze it all you want. The fact is that NOTHING could be written on a shirt that could ever constitute a valid threat to anyone. Period.
Indeed. That guy is cool. I like how he stuck to his guns.
     
vmarks
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Aug 24, 2006, 09:32 PM
 
Originally Posted by Gabriel Morales
For those who believe in the Constitution of the United States and the inalienable rights which it acknowledges there should be no question of whether the man should have been able to wear the shirt or not.
Actually, no.

The First Amendment prohibits the government from outlawing political speech. It doesn't force the airlines to let you ride, and it doesn't force anyone to be your audience.


And I don't know if you guys realize it, but that kind of incident is exactly the kind of thing that justifies that kind of sentiment written on the shirt. "We will not be silent." because they're trying to shut us up.
They who?

The airlines who get to decide who they will and will not allow as passengers on their flights?
     
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Aug 24, 2006, 09:45 PM
 
Originally Posted by Landos Mustache
Who cares. It shouldn't have happened.
Correct. Should have left the shirt home.
     
Spliffdaddy
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Aug 24, 2006, 09:46 PM
 
So, a Klan hood would be proper attire for an airline flight?

I mean, we hafta be open-minded. We should come together and respect..no, CELEBRATE diversity of opinion.

Right, liberals?
     
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Aug 24, 2006, 09:49 PM
 
I respect the KKK's right to their opinion. That's what I like about this country: Freedom to have stupid opinions on things. Heck, look at all the people who believe in the bible. >shrug<
     
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Aug 24, 2006, 09:58 PM
 
Originally Posted by Dino-Rider
I respect the KKK's right to their opinion. That's what I like about this country: Freedom to have stupid opinions on things. Heck, look at all the people who believe in the bible. >shrug<
Rob really. Stop attempting to derail this thread with your religious hate.
     
Spliffdaddy
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Aug 24, 2006, 10:31 PM
 
Originally Posted by Dino-Rider
I respect the KKK's right to their opinion. That's what I like about this country: Freedom to have stupid opinions on things. Heck, look at all the people who believe in the bible. >shrug<

A stupid opinion is in the eye of the beholder.

Most Americans *gasp* would be content to remove atheists from the US - before terrorists.

I mean, at least terrorists believe in something that transcends their own life. While an atheist merely worships himself.
     
Dino-Rider
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Aug 24, 2006, 10:35 PM
 
... athiests don't worship anything.
     
davesimondotcom
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Aug 24, 2006, 10:35 PM
 
Originally Posted by Gabriel Morales
Although you probably say it in jest, this is actually a serious question to consider. AppleScript is pretty English-readable, but what about a less easily-readable way computer language? Maybe even binary code. That could definitely be a "sign" for would-be terrorists.
I haven't thought about this for a long time, but there was a guy featured in Wired mag years and years ago who got a Perl script tattoo of strong encryption to test whether he could get on an international flight with it.

The point was that the government had regulations that made it so that code for encryption stronger than 64-bit was not legal to export.

So, by tattooing it on his arm, he was testing the export laws.

I believe he was allowed to fly.
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Aug 24, 2006, 10:39 PM
 
Originally Posted by Dino-Rider
... athiests don't worship anything.
So what's the point in having them around?
     
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Aug 24, 2006, 10:48 PM
 
I wonder what would happen if you started reading a magazine in arabic.
     
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Aug 24, 2006, 10:53 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy
So what's the point in having them around?
Is this actually a serious question? Or are you just being retarded without realizing it?

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Aug 24, 2006, 10:57 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy
So what's the point in having them around?
Worshipping is unnecessary?
     
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Aug 24, 2006, 11:14 PM
 
What's interesting is that they didn't seem to really think he was a terrorist. If they did, simply changing his t-shirt shouldn't have been enough to allow him onto the plane.
     
Spliffdaddy
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Aug 24, 2006, 11:16 PM
 
It's a serious question.

If you don't believe in a higher power, then the only thing you have to live for is yourself.

I haven't met any atheists on these forums, but I've met a lot of people with an interest in Christianity - who are ashamed to admit it.
     
Dino-Rider
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Aug 24, 2006, 11:17 PM
 
I don't believe in a god. I think there is probably something..... but not god. I don't worship it, nor do I worship myself. Just because you think God is total bullshit does not mean you must worship something else. If I worship anything, it's internal combustion and man's brilliance in engineering.
     
Spliffdaddy
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Aug 24, 2006, 11:21 PM
 
So what's with your interest in Christianity?

I get the impression that you're trying to convince yourself that there's something to it.


edit: Not that there's anything wrong with that. I felt the same way most of my life. Finally, I decided that it was alright to believe what I believe - without having to assign a category to my belief. So, my God is *my* God. I don't know if my God is Christian, Muslim, or Hindu. All I know is that I answer to a higher authority, and try to live my life in a manner that reflects the fact that I'm here for a purpose.
     
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Aug 24, 2006, 11:23 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy
It's a serious question.

If you don't believe in a higher power, then the only thing you have to live for is yourself.
Wow. That is so wrong I don't even know where to start.

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Spliffdaddy
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Aug 24, 2006, 11:27 PM
 
Start anywhere, I'm listening.
     
Kevin
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Aug 24, 2006, 11:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by Dino-Rider
I respect the KKK's right to their opinion. That's what I like about this country: Freedom to have stupid opinions on things. Heck, look at all the people who believe in the bible. >shrug<


*sigh* the anti-religious zealots in here can't stop preaching their faith I guess.
     
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Aug 24, 2006, 11:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by vmarks
Actually, no.

The First Amendment prohibits the government from outlawing political speech. It doesn't force the airlines to let you ride, and it doesn't force anyone to be your audience.
However, laws against discrimination against groups have been passed. Also, it doesn't seem like it was the airline itself that had the problems, but rather government agents at the airport, or is this not accurate?

Originally Posted by davesimondotcom
I haven't thought about this for a long time, but there was a guy featured in Wired mag years and years ago who got a Perl script tattoo of strong encryption to test whether he could get on an international flight with it.
Interesting.
     
 
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