[centerchannel68]

Yes, you are:

"By 2005, the rate of sexual assault in Australia increased 36% from its pre-ban 1995 rate, while the U.S. rate decreased 14.6%. Women are now raped over three times as often in Australia as they are in the United States.[3],[4]"

[brassplayersrock²]

Thank you demonhood for making such a great point.

i still stand by what I said earlier. Lets all just think of the victims and their families for a bit, and try to put ourselves into their shoes.

[centerchannel68]

I'm not sure what that will accomplish.

[brassplayersrock²]

so you don't think grieving for the people who got killed yesterday is alright?

[centerchannel68]

I don't know them. It sucks, but I'm not going to 'grieve' for people I don't know. That's just weird, in my opinion. I also don't see what grieving over complete strangers will accomplish.

[brassplayersrock²]

alright, what if your wife was in the classroom and got shot/killed today? ask your wife how she feels, and if she'd prey for the people who got killed yesterday... grieve if you will

[centerchannel68]

But what if she wasn't?

[brassplayersrock²]

*knocks on roberts head* "HELLO ANYTHING,UHH, ANYONE IN THERE?"

I'm trying to make a point to you robert, but somehow it isn't getting through to you. i think i know why not, but still. come on, just answer the question robert

[centerchannel68]

What if? What if you're asking totally irrelevant questions? You're comparing my wife to a bunch of complete strangers. It makes no sense whatsoever. That's like saying "Gee you don't cry over the death of Princess Di? Well what if your mom died, would you cry then?"

Your comparison makes zero sense.

[brassplayersrock²]

it would if you would think out side your box. trying to get an idea through to you is like trying to get a large square through a small circle.

anyways, if you don't want to grieve for your selfish reasons, go ahead. you're basically an adult, you can make your own screwed up decisions.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by brassplayersrock 

i still stand by what I said earlier. Lets all just think of the victims and their families for a bit, and try to put ourselves into their shoes.

Good luck with that. You're not going to be able to separate what happened at Virginia Tech from the gun control topic. And I think it's inherently a political issue. Whatever side of the aisle you are on, when you start to talk about this and what went wrong, it's going to come down to gun control.

I'm honestly surprised this thread wasn't started in the political lounge.

[brassplayersrock²]

some people might be able to say "oh, these poor people got killed, lets keep this about them, and make a new thread about gun control" others, as shown above, can not

[centerchannel68]

So are you seriously grieving over a bunch of strangers? Seriously? Life must be pretty sad for you. Messed up stuff happens to people everyday. If I had to grieve for all of them, I doubt I'd have much time for anything else. Ever.

[brassplayersrock²]

careful robert, your "i only think of myself persona" is showing

[centerchannel68]

Uh, yeah. So? Do you seriously grieve over a bunch of strangers?

[brassplayersrock²]

it really is sad that there are people in the world like you robert. it really is. so narrow minded they can't think of when to feel bad for others. yeah i grieve over a "bunch of strangers" because I have lost loved ones in different ways, and also have lost a couple of friends to shootings. so yeah i grieve for them because I care for other people. all it seems you can do robert is care for yourself. married or not, that doesn't necessarily mean you actually care for her.


aww the good ol' days:

[centerchannel68]

Riiiiigggghhht. Hey, check it out, I found some more people for you to grieve about:

Iraq dean, professor killed - CNN.com

[glyph]

I really enjoyed the background music on NBC's Nightline: The Virginia Tech Massacre. That piano music really set the mood. If only iTunes would offer the soundtrack for download - I'd buy that for a buck! Here's what my favorite tracks would be:

Setting the Mood
Coverage of the Reporting
Video Clip
Touchy-Feely
Poke it with a Stick
Reporting on the Coverage
An Interview with a Reporter
Seeking Closure
Stay Tuned

[Tiresias]

Originally Posted by glyph 

I really enjoyed the background music on NBC's Nightline: The Virginia Tech Massacre. That piano music really set the mood. If only iTunes would offer the soundtrack for download - I'd buy that for a buck! Here's what my favorite tracks would be:

Setting the Mood
Coverage of the Reporting
Video Clip
Touchy-Feely
Poke it with a Stick
Reporting on the Coverage
An Interview with a Reporter
Seeking Closure
Stay Tuned

Ha ha ha. That's pretty funny. And screwed up. Why do news outlets have to cheese up tragedy with Muzak and try and make a piece of entertainment out of it? The news would have greater weight, and solemnity, without ambient piano music.

(You were joking, right?)

[His Dudeness]

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

I'm pretty sure that, even if you're allowed to carry guns, you wouldn't be allowed to bring one on campus. So the 2nd Amendment argument is a moot point.

It didn't stop this guy. Nothing would have stopped this guy. That's why he's a criminal, because criminals don't obey the law, hence the term criminal.

[His Dudeness]

Originally Posted by centerchannel68 

So are you seriously grieving over a bunch of strangers? Seriously? Life must be pretty sad for you. Messed up stuff happens to people everyday. If I had to grieve for all of them, I doubt I'd have much time for anything else. Ever.

Right, because you spend more time bitching about people driving SUV's. Have some sympathy for the dead, will ya?

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by centerchannel68 

So are you seriously grieving over a bunch of strangers? Seriously? Life must be pretty sad for you. Messed up stuff happens to people everyday. If I had to grieve for all of them, I doubt I'd have much time for anything else. Ever.

QFT.

Like you said, it sucks that it happened.

But this grieving for strangers is actually a form of mental illness. Saw a proggie on the TV last year with a bunch of shrinks deconstructing the UK public's response to Diana Spencer's death. Can't remember what they called it but they definitely said that something was slightly screwy in the people who grieved for someone they don't personally know.

[His Dudeness]

Sort of like how the whole country grieved when President Reagan died, or when Elvis died? I'd venture to say the whole country didn't know them both, but they stilled grieved. To call grieving a mental illness is mentally insane.

There's people I would dance the jig nakked in the interstate for when they died, does that make me perfectly sane?

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by His Dudeness 

To call grieving a mental illness is mentally insane.

As opposed to physically insane?

They didn't call grieving a mental illness - they called grieving for someone you don't know a mental illness.

But feel free to make yourself miserable. How does the song go? "40,000 men and women every day"? Knock yourself out.

[Cipher13]

Grieving for somebody you don't know is indeed dumb. Sure, it sucks for them, and for their families and friends, but come on.

So I pose this question to those "grieving" for people you never knew: are you actually grieving, or do you simply think you should be? Or, even, do you want to be grieving?

Are you, in reality, feeling great sorrow? Are you truly distressed over their loss? I bet you're not.

Even if you don't answer me, I suggest you ask yourself those questions.

Originally Posted by Doofy 

How does the song go? "40,000 men and women every day"?

Great song.

[Face Ache]

Hmm. They're saying the gunman was a Chinese national who'd been in the US for 12 months.

I can't recall reading about any (non-government sanctioned) mass shootings in China. So why would a Chinese guy go nuts with a gun after 12 months in the US? What's different? Rap music?

[spacefreak]

I can't believe that many of these students allowed themselves to be lined up against a wall and executed. Not one story of someone trying to charge or tackle this son-of-a-b-tch.

Kids are brought up as such wusses these days, and it's getting worse. Raised without spines, our younger generations are sitting ducks.

[spacefreak]

I'm also disappointed in the police response. That cell phone video w/ sound - it's pretty darn obvious that the shooted is on a rampage, yet the cops are diving behind trees.

The moment a few students verified that it was a single asian shooter in tan/black outfit, police should have charged in through a broken window (or multiple windows) and found this jerkoff.

[His Dudeness]

Originally Posted by Cipher13 

Grieving for somebody you don't know is indeed dumb. Sure, it sucks for them, and for their families and friends, but come on.

So I pose this question to those "grieving" for people you never knew: are you actually grieving, or do you simply think you should be? Or, even, do you want to be grieving?

Are you, in reality, feeling great sorrow? Are you truly distressed over their loss? I bet you're not.

Even if you don't answer me, I suggest you ask yourself those questions.



Great song.

Man, you guys are really heartless bastards. And besides, grieving doesn't mean bawling your eyes out and screaming and carrying on like you're on a tv talk show. Have you people no sympathy at all?

I bet you guys danced and roasted marshmallows on 9/11, right? I bet that was a day of great great joy to you people. I've never seen or heard other people criticizing others for showing grief or sympathy.

Maybe you people should look inside your own selfs and hearts and turn up the heater or something.

I'm not losing sleep over it all, but at least I feel some sympathy for parents losing their kids and brothers and sisters losing their brothers and sisters and friends losing friends. And how do you know that someone here doesn't have a friend or a brother or a sister or a parent at VT?

Man, you guys are pure evil here on the boards. Now go back to your bright cheery day.

[His Dudeness]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

As opposed to physically insane?

They didn't call grieving a mental illness - they called grieving for someone you don't know a mental illness.

But feel free to make yourself miserable. How does the song go? "40,000 men and women every day"? Knock yourself out.

I can see where you got your screen name, doofy.

[Strix]

Hmmm, not entirely sure I agree with the thread starting to blame the "bloodline" (ie. Brits) for what happened yesterday....

With regards to the stats quoted about British crime since the ban on guns, lets put some more meat on the bone.

According to the 2005-2006 British Crime Survey (renowned for being the most accurate survey of British crime), there were a total of 46 homicides involving guns in the whole year. During the year there were a total of 765 murders, which includes the 52 victims of the 7th July London Bombings.

Since 1998/1999 offences involving firearms have increased from 5,500 to 10,500 in 2004/2005 at which point it has remained level. Part of the increase can be accounted for changes in the method of defining and recording firearm offences.

Personally I still feel safe in this country. There are significant differences in the "rights to bear arms" between the UK and the States. Pre 1997 it was never the case that everyone had the right to have a firearm; the Government introduced tighter controls and took various types of firearm out of circulation.

Would I feel safe walking unarmed around Texas on the assumption that no-one will attach me because I might have a concealed gun? No.

No one in Britain has the "right" to own a firearm. Therefore I can walk safe and peacefully down the street in the knowledge that no-one else has one.

[TETENAL]

Originally Posted by His Dudeness 

It didn't stop this guy. Nothing would have stopped this guy. That's why he's a criminal, because criminals don't obey the law, hence the term criminal.

He probably was not a criminal by the time he acquired the weapon. That's why gun control would have made a difference. With a baseball bat or kitchen knife his rampage would have had a different outcome.

[TETENAL]

Originally Posted by Strix 

Would I feel safe walking unarmed around Texas on the assumption that no-one will attach me because I might have a concealed gun? No.

No one in Britain has the "right" to own a firearm. Therefore I can walk safe and peacefully down the street in the knowledge that no-one else has one.

I don't think the gun-lobbying Americans realize how sad it is to feel save because everyone could have a gun. That is, feeling save because everyone is always scared of everyone else.

[His Dudeness]

Originally Posted by TETENAL 

He probably was not a criminal by the time he acquired the weapon. That's why gun control would have made a difference. With a baseball bat or kitchen knife his rampage would have had a different outcome.

He could have stolen them. Find me one person who's life was saved by any ANY gun control law.

[dawho9]

To come back to the topic and not gun control, without attempting to pin this on the administration should there not have been some sort of in-building plan in place. I had the knee-jerk reaction to say close the place down, but goMac makes a very good point about a small city not closing down when there is two murders among the 35k. (The number is much smaller, as I understand only about 10k are on campus at any one time, but no need to nit-pick on numbers.)

What I cannot believe is that there isn't some sort of building lock down procedure. It took 31 minutes from the first bullet until police entered the building and the suspect took his own life. I work for a K-12 school and we have lockdown procedures per building. So if we had a gunman in one building, we would not close all of the schools, but we would have someone immediately let everyone in the building know that a gunman was there to immediately lock all classroom door and move away from all doors and windows and to clear all hallways.

Some of the student accounts have them in the middle of class and police running by with guns drawn. Door were not locked, students still in desks, etc. Student who said they had no clue what was going on until they received an e-mail saying a gunman had killed in the other building.

This is what surprised me the most.

dw9

[TETENAL]

Originally Posted by His Dudeness 

Find me one person who's life was saved by any ANY gun control law.

CNN.com - US - DOJ study links juvenile homicide rate to gun access laws - March 7, 2000

Easier access to firearms contributed to a huge rise in the number of U.S. homicides and suicides among juveniles from 1987 to 1993, according to a new Justice Department study released by the White House.

[His Dudeness]

It's pretty sad that this is turning into an anti-gun rally. How many laws were broken by this guy yesterday? I think committing murder is already against the law, and that didn't help.

I don't know what would have prevented this, if anything. But decrying gun owners and/or gun ownership is the cheap, liberal, and ignorant way out.

[Dakarʒ]

Originally Posted by His Dudeness 

It's pretty sad that this is turning into an anti-gun rally. How many laws were broken by this guy yesterday? I think committing murder is already against the law, and that didn't help.

I don't know what would have prevented this, if anything. But decrying gun owners and/or gun ownership is the cheap, liberal, and ignorant way out.

Oh please, this isn't just one side. Both sides are crying about the gun laws. Decrying liberals is a cheap, ignorant way out.

[His Dudeness]

Since a majority of anti-gun people are liberal and/or Democrat, I don't think I'm too far off.

And that link doesn't prove anything. Find me a Joe Schmoe in Iowa and prove that he lived on Thursday after walking out of a 7-11 without being shot because of the one-gun-per-month law, or the 10 round clip law, et al. Anyone can find a "study" of "evidence" that supports their claims. Sort of like Al Gore and "global warming".

I am saying that gun-control laws don't work. No law works. Laws only lay guidelines for punishment afterwards. That's why some there are felonies, class a misdemeanors, class b's, etc. People still drink and drive, which is against the law. People still illegally carry guns (like yesterday) which is against the law. People still commit murder (like yesterday) which is against the law. People still sell secrets, which is against the law. People still beat their wife, traffic in narcotics, deal narcotics, assault people, beat animals, run red lights, speed, commit perjury, you name it. All these things are against the law, and have been for how many years? Yet, strangely, these things are still going on. Go figure.

[Dakarʒ]

Originally Posted by His Dudeness 

Since a majority of anti-gun people are liberal and/or Democrat, I don't think I'm too far off.

I'm not talking about who argues what. Both sides are arguing. Don't bitch about this being an anti-gun rally when we have pro-gun people all over this thread too.

[TETENAL]

So get rid off all of those laws? Why do you only oppose gun control laws if all laws don't work?

It's quite obvious that restricting access to guns reduces gun related crimes. The study I posted is just one example.

[Cipher13]

Originally Posted by His Dudeness 

Man, you guys are really heartless bastards. And besides, grieving doesn't mean bawling your eyes out and screaming and carrying on like you're on a tv talk show. Have you people no sympathy at all?

Actually, it does mean that, essentially.

Yes, I absolutely have sympathy - it's a horrible thing to happen, and I'd wish it on nobody. Well, that's not true, but not many people. Sympathy is a whole lot different to "grieving".

I bet you guys danced and roasted marshmallows on 9/11, right? I bet that was a day of great great joy to you people.

What's the point in attacking us like this? Is that really necessary?

I'm not losing sleep over it all, but at least I feel some sympathy for parents losing their kids and brothers and sisters losing their brothers and sisters and friends losing friends.

So you're not grieving, then. Glad we settled that.

And how do you know that someone here doesn't have a friend or a brother or a sister or a parent at VT?

I don't. I wasn't addressing anybody in that situation. Nor was Cash or Doofy. We were specifically talking about people who DO NOT know anybody involved. Is that so hard to comprehend?

Man, you guys are pure evil here on the boards. Now go back to your bright cheery day.

Ah yes, the epitome of pure evil is criticisng somebody for supposedly "grieving" over a situation they had no involvement in. Nice to be classified with the likes of Idi Amin for such statements.

Now back to my bright and cheery day.

[voodoo]

It is impossible to grieve for people one doesn't know. I think certain posters are not comprehending what it means to grieve.

V

[G Barnett]

*sigh*

So far we've got folks blaming this on:

1) Muslim Terrorists (Debbie Schlussel, engaging mouth before brain)
2) Gun Control
3) Lack of Gun Control
4) Video Games (Hello, Jack Thompson, yes we see you there)
5) Evolution (no, really. That's courtesy of Ken Ham, whose brain is NEVER engaged).

All in less than 24hrs after it happened. The cynic in me is wondering, "WTF? These guys beat Westboro to the punch? When are the gays gonna get blamed?"

The rational human in me is mourning how quickly folks everywhere are jumping to conclusions in order to assign a (to them) appropriate scapegoat to the whole mess.

Geez, people (mostly addressed to the above list), give the authorities some time to find out what really happened, and then we'll have some, like, FACTS to go on.

'Course, actual facts are the enemy in today's world of easy blame-assignment and ducking of responsibility.

This is depressing all around.

[His Dudeness]

Originally Posted by TETENAL 

So get rid off all of those laws? Why do you only oppose gun control laws if all laws don't work?

It's quite obvious that restricting access to guns reduces gun related crimes. The study I posted is just one example.

Did I SAW git rid of them? I oppose more and more and more and more laws being enacted that are the same as the ones already enacted. What's the point?

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by voodoo 

Either you are right and Americans are more prone to insanity than us Yurpeans or I'm right and that 'no guns allowed in school' thing prevents people being shot. Also that 'no knives allowed in school' thing seems to help, since nobody is getting stabbed.

Well, or Americans are insane. That is not out of the question, but I'd be inclined to believe that sociopaths exist in all societies. Some are better at containing them and not arming them than others.

Whatever the reason is, you have more school shootings and people going postal than Yurp. The only direct correlation is that Americans have easier access to guns.

An indirect and also possible correlation is that Americans are more sociopathic.

V

I always love voodoo's xenophobic/racist rants.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Ado 

My reasons to why this happens alot in America, not because of quake 3 or doom, not because of obsessions with being gun nuts but - American schools breed bullies.

It's not the bullies that are doing the shooting. And ANY school has bullies. I love these baseless accusations.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Face Ache 

I agree that if I were in the US, I'd want a gun too.

Like any other place on the planet, it depends were in the US you live. There are places all over the world in every country that I'd want a gun in. Just like there are places all over the world I'd feel comfortable without one.

I happen to live in a place in the US that I feel comfortable without one. Hell, I don't even lock my house when I leave.

[Dakarʒ]

Originally Posted by Kevin 

Hell, I don't even lock my house when I leave.

We'll see if you do when I start eating all your Doritos®.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by centerchannel68 

So are you seriously grieving over a bunch of strangers? Seriously? Life must be pretty sad for you. Messed up stuff happens to people everyday. If I had to grieve for all of them, I doubt I'd have much time for anything else. Ever.

Feeling grief over this would be a normal reaction. Regardless if I know them or not. I find it odd that you would feel such a reaction was "sad"

Not having a feeling over such a thing tends to lean toward the sociopath side Rob.

Now by saying that I am not calling you a sociopath. Not at all. But it does sound like something one would say.