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I'm Bloody Pissed At Adobe Right Now... (Page 2)
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driven
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Jun 13, 2005, 07:08 PM
 
Quite honestly, Adobe is going to get their A$$ kicked by Microsoft and their little document format. It's not because Microsoft did *anything* write, but it's because Adobe did everything wrong .... starting with suing that Russian programmer a few years back.

How will this affect Apple and their "standard" PDF format ?? I dunno. Adobe is their own worst enemy however.
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analogika
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Jun 13, 2005, 07:09 PM
 
Originally Posted by kmkkid
You can't get free software cause you're religious.
That's NOT true.

He can't get discounted software because he works for an organization that discriminates based on religious beliefs.

Major difference.
     
chris v
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Jun 13, 2005, 07:10 PM
 
You have no clue how many "churches" would come crawling out of the woodwork looking for free copies of Photoshop. Adobe has basically said "we will support X variety of charities" and your church doesn't fit their criteria. Neither does any body else's church. They're in business to make a profit-- not to give software to anybody with a storefront ministry and an internet preaching license. Get over it.

When a true genius appears in the world you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him. -- Jonathan Swift.
     
Chuckit
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Jun 13, 2005, 07:11 PM
 
Originally Posted by Superchicken
However I DO have a problem when I am told that a company thinks helping nonprofits is great, so long as they aren't those crazy religious types.
They didn't say that. Step back and try to look at this objectively, Superchicken. They only help one kind of nonprofit: public charities. Half of the types of nonprofits on that list have nothing at all to do with religion.

Only groups specifically dedicated to charity get the money. I don't think they hate political organizations or private foundations, but those don't get it either.
Chuck
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zoetrope
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Jun 13, 2005, 07:14 PM
 
Originally posted by Superchicken:

"I DO have a problem when I am told that a company thinks helping nonprofits is great, so long as they aren't those crazy religious types."
Takes one to know one. You sound like you're quite the christian (yes that's christian with a small 'c'), full of peace and contenement and love for his fellow human being. It also appears that you are not one to judge lest ye be judged yourself, forgive others who trespass against you, love...pray...and feed your enemies. Why, you're not full of hate and spite at all...R U?
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Link
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Jun 13, 2005, 07:14 PM
 
So they refuse to support anything that supports any given religion.. okay..

They refuse to support charities that are aligned with a given religion but help anyone... That sounds kinda zealous

You know, I just think they're zealous religion haters.
Aloha
     
Superchicken  (op)
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Jun 13, 2005, 07:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by chris v
You have no clue how many "churches" would come crawling out of the woodwork looking for free copies of Photoshop. Adobe has basically said "we will support X variety of charities" and your church doesn't fit their criteria. Neither does any body else's church. They're in business to make a profit-- not to give software to anybody with a storefront ministry and an internet preaching license. Get over it.
You're right, if Adobe had a license that said, any church can get a free copy of Photoshop.

However they could also say, hey guess what, any religious organization that has tax exempt status can get 100 bucks off Photoshop. Or can get it for like half price, like just about every title of software Apple sells. Or they can give it away for even less like Microsoft.

And you know what, Apple and Microsoft both haven't gone bankrupt by making special deals for groups that probably simply wouldn't buy their software if they couldn't afford it. Or would sooner pirate it.

It's not as if Adobe would loose much business if they had special deals for churches. News flash the majority of churches are between a hundred and a hundred at 50 people. Many of which are busy paying off their building or supporting the single staff member they have. These are not the types of organizations that are making tons of money, and they are not likely to buy Photoshop or Illustrator.

Adobe would loose nothing if they did not have this clause. Their business would not fall apart. If people want to rip off Adobe they know what the word crack means, and they wouldn't even bother filling out a form and waiting for all that.
     
Chuckit
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Jun 13, 2005, 07:20 PM
 
Originally Posted by Superchicken
However they could also say, hey guess what, any religious organization that has tax exempt status can get 100 bucks off Photoshop. Or can get it for like half price, like just about every title of software Apple sells. Or they can give it away for even less like Microsoft.
Why should they?
Chuck
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Superchicken  (op)
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Jun 13, 2005, 07:20 PM
 
Originally Posted by kmkkid
Boo, ****ing hoo. What comes around goes around, as they say...
I don't know anyone who says that, most people I know know the phrase is actually "What goes around, comes around."
     
BlueSky
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Jun 13, 2005, 07:21 PM
 
OK, I'm back, couldn't resist,

ChickenLittle, at least 4 other members have posted the exact same thing I did. Would you like to know why you can't let the answer in? No? Well, I'll tell ya anyway because I'm in a charitable mood today.

You won't get the answer because you've already given yourself the answer...the one you want. Why did you start this thread if you already have the answer? Do you want agreement? Have you noticed you're not getting any, Skippy?

I say quit while you're behind.
     
Superchicken  (op)
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Jun 13, 2005, 07:22 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chuckit
Why should they?
Generally? They do it as a pr move. Though some see it as giving back to people who give so much to their communities. It's called philanthropy.

It's where you do something selfish, even if it might put a slight dent in your profits, you do it because you see something higher than the all mighty dollar.
     
mitchell_pgh
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Jun 13, 2005, 07:26 PM
 
Originally Posted by Superchicken
You mean... Warez sites? haha...
ha ha... no... there are other "academic and nonprofit" software sites that will sell software.
     
zoetrope
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Jun 13, 2005, 07:26 PM
 
Answer this question Superphreak...What would Jesus do in this situation? Would he be "pissed" at Adobe? Would he rant on a forum? Or would he be concerning himself with the needs of the poor instead?

He might be asking Adobe to actually give some of their handsome profits to real charitable organizations that help the poor. Okay, I'll answer it for you...christian boy.

His concerns would be with those that need real help...those who are hungry, impoverished, societal outcasts. These should be your concerns Mr. Superturkey, I think you should be PRACTICING what you supposedly believe instead of ranting on forums where you will get no compassion. Because you show NONE!

Good thing you live in Winnipeg.
( Last edited by zoetrope; Jun 13, 2005 at 07:33 PM. )
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Chuckit
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Jun 13, 2005, 07:27 PM
 
Originally Posted by Superchicken
Generally? They do it as a pr move. Though some see it as giving back to people who give so much to their communities. It's called philanthropy.

It's where you do something selfish, even if it might put a slight dent in your profits, you do it because you see something higher than the all mighty dollar.
That would be served just as well by randomly giving away their software for free. Why should they do you a favor just because you go to church? Are you better than me because of that?

Don't get me wrong, I've got nothing against your church. But I don't see why it entitles you to get things cheap.
Chuck
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pathogen
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Jun 13, 2005, 07:30 PM
 
Originally Posted by GSixZero
I don't see what the problem is. Religions are free to discriminate against whomever they want. Perhaps Adobe doesn't want to support discrimination by supporting those who discriminate.
To quote Don Henley, this is "the heart of the matter."
When you were young and your heart was an open book, you used to say "live and let live."
But if this ever changing world, in which we live in, makes you give in and cry, say "live and let die."
     
porieux
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Jun 13, 2005, 07:32 PM
 
Religion needs to be eradicated.
     
kmkkid
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Jun 13, 2005, 07:33 PM
 
Originally Posted by Superchicken
I don't know anyone who says that, most people I know know the phrase is actually "What goes around, comes around."

Lol. Yes. I was just being silly anyways
     
booboo
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Jun 13, 2005, 07:39 PM
 
Why should self-righteous religious types get discounts? Ah yes, because they feel they deserve to get them . . .
     
analogika
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Jun 13, 2005, 07:46 PM
 
Originally Posted by Link
So they refuse to support anything that supports any given religion.. okay..

They refuse to support charities that are aligned with a given religion but help anyone... That sounds kinda zealous

You know, I just think they're zealous religion haters.
I think you need to think that through again.
     
mprewitt99
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Jun 13, 2005, 07:50 PM
 
Adobe is free to do whatever they want. The only thing that bothers me is that they deny gifts to religious charities even if those charities are not descriminatory in their charitable acts. Why would they do that? I can think of reasons, but none of them are good.

ChuckIt: "Why should they do you a favor just because you go to church?" Umm, I think you're missing something, Chuck. Going to church doesn't make one a staff of a 501(c)3 organization. In any case, it would be quite forgiveable if Adobe didn't want to support churches, foundations, political organizations, and such. It would even be OK if they didn't want to support charities. But to say they will only support secular charities is a bit narrow-minded.
     
Apple Pro Underwear
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Jun 13, 2005, 07:52 PM
 
Originally Posted by Link
So they refuse to support anything that supports any given religion.. okay..

They refuse to support charities that are aligned with a given religion but help anyone... That sounds kinda zealous

You know, I just think they're zealous religion haters.

look joeg4, i mean maczealot... i mean whatever

log off the forums, turn off your video game and get outta your house
     
mprewitt99
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Jun 13, 2005, 07:53 PM
 
porieux: Religion needs to be eradicated.

... But we need to eradicate the anti-religious first.
     
isao bered
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Jun 13, 2005, 07:58 PM
 
... hmmmmm...

... believe what ye will...
... do what ye will...
... befriend some...
... offend some...

... whatever...

... but please here...
... leave theology...
... to the theologians...
... and the particular belief...
... to the believer...
... and refrain...
... from assessing behaviour and motive...
... based on misguided or misconceived opinions...
... on anyone's holy book...
... or generic profession of faith...

... fwiw...
... adobe has done what they will...
... probably smartly...
... to support the greater ideal of charity...
... without supporting the ideology of the charitable...
... and offend some...
... and befriend some...

... whatever...

... be well...
... and be better...

isao
     
Superchicken  (op)
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Jun 13, 2005, 08:01 PM
 
Originally Posted by zoetrope
Answer this question Superphreak...What would Jesus do in this situation? Would he be "pissed" at Adobe? Would he rant on a forum? Or would he be concerning himself with the needs of the poor instead?

He might be asking Adobe to actually give some of their handsome profits to real charitable organizations that help the poor. Okay, I'll answer it for you...christian boy.

His concerns would be with those that need real help...those who are hungry, impoverished, societal outcasts. These should be your concerns Mr. Superturkey, I think you should be PRACTICING what you supposedly believe instead of ranting on forums where you will get no compassion. Because you show NONE!

Good thing you live in Winnipeg.
So in other words you've decided to pretend Jesus was simply a social worker, and that he wanted everyone to not turn and honour worship God in holiness. That Jesus goal was not for people to Love God with all their heart, mind, soul and strength, and to love their neighbour as themselves. Instead Jesus simply wanted to help the homeless.
If you have decided that's who Jesus was then you have an inaccurate. Jesus healed the sick and diseased, associated with prostitutes and other "sinners", and stood up for the defenceless out of love, both for His Father, and His fellow man, as well as the underlying love of God for His creation. Would Jesus go and rant on MacNN? No MacNN wasn't around then. Instead would he chase people out of the temple with a whip when he saw them bringing disgrace on the temple of God? Yes. Would he have public arguments with with the religious institutions of his time? Yes.
That said, Jesus never went to the Romans and told them, to do what he wanted. And that's not what I'm arguing for either. Jesus called people to honour God regardless of who they were.
However also for your statement that if I were really Jesusy enough for you then I would be telling Adobe to give money to the poor. First of all giving money to those who are poor, in Winnipeg would mean a lot of the homeless population would go out and get a beer. Often these people are homeless because they don't realize how to balance resources, they don't have anyone to show them how to clean up etc. This is where organizations that are nonprofit come in. They exist not to make a profit but to help people, at least a lot of them do. And what I am pissed off at Adobe for is the fact that they will say that some of these deserve their help, what little they would provide, where as others SOLELY on the basis of their belief system are not worth helping.

Honestly I care far less for the fact that my church won't get a discount, I was simply hoping because it's often the case. What I'm pissed about is Adobe's blatant prejudice against religious people and the organizations they're a part of.

It's truly sad that so many of you have such an irrational hate for Christians that you look at this sort of thing as a good thing. I truly hope some day you realize just how empty a life is when you wish the worst for everyone but yourself.
     
thomasv
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Jun 13, 2005, 08:02 PM
 
From a practical standpoint. Church's do not have to publish a statement detailing their financials like other non-profits. So how do we know that you are really doing what you are saying your doing? We don't.

I read it as Adobe is saying that they are discriminating against organizations that a) discrimnate against others based on their religous background, or b) 501(c)3's that do not have some degree of financial transparency and objective evidence that they are fufilling their stated mission.
     
Kilbey
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Jun 13, 2005, 08:02 PM
 
Originally Posted by porieux
Religion needs to be eradicated.
The fact that people have these kinds of thoughts scares me. Why are you so intorerant?




Back on topic: SuperChicken, have you asked anyone in the Church to donate the software you need? I purchase and donate computers and software to my Church a few times a year. But I have to hear of a need first. How can I give if I don't know that it's needed? Sometimes I'll see a need and make the purchase, but 9 times out of 10 I have no idea what a particular person might need unless they let it be known. Usually it's during a Church business meeting, or the Pastor will tell me directly, as he knows I like to help in this way.

I'd suggest asking a few members of your church, or even putting the request in front of the whole Church during the announcements portion of your services, if they can donate towards the purchase of the software.

Don't focus on the negatives of a certain software company. I don't think it's a good idea to come onto the Lounge and complain to a bunch of non-believers. And PLEASE, do not even think of obtaining the software illegally. I am certain your fellow Church members would not want illegal activities being used to perfom work for the Church.
     
Chuckit
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Jun 13, 2005, 08:03 PM
 
Originally Posted by mprewitt99
ChuckIt: "Why should they do you a favor just because you go to church?" Umm, I think you're missing something, Chuck. Going to church doesn't make one a staff of a 501(c)3 organization. In any case, it would be quite forgiveable if Adobe didn't want to support churches, foundations, political organizations, and such. It would even be OK if they didn't want to support charities. But to say they will only support secular charities is a bit narrow-minded.
They will only support organizations that are solely charities. If members of your church want to do charitable work, there's nothing stopping you from forming a true charity. If you refuse to separate this into two organizations, it's a clear sign that your charitable work is not just charitable.

It seems pretty clear to me that Adobe means to exclude every organization that isn't a proper charity. They specifically explain about churches because there are a lot of people like Superchicken who assume that churches would be excluded from this requirement.
Chuck
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Superchicken  (op)
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Jun 13, 2005, 08:03 PM
 
Originally Posted by booboo
Why should self-righteous religious types get discounts? Ah yes, because they feel they deserve to get them . . .
Why should pretentious brats like you be beaten with a blunt object? Because they actually deserve it...
     
Superchicken  (op)
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Jun 13, 2005, 08:10 PM
 
Originally Posted by Kilbey
The fact that people have these kinds of thoughts scares me. Why are you so intorerant?




Back on topic: SuperChicken, have you asked anyone in the Church to donate the software you need? I purchase and donate computers and software to my Church a few times a year. But I have to hear of a need first. How can I give if I don't know that it's needed? Sometimes I'll see a need and make the purchase, but 9 times out of 10 I have no idea what a particular person might need unless they let it be known. Usually it's during a Church business meeting, or the Pastor will tell me directly, as he knows I like to help in this way.

I'd suggest asking a few members of your church, or even putting the request in front of the whole Church during the announcements portion of your services, if they can donate towards the purchase of the software.

Don't focus on the negatives of a certain software company. I don't think it's a good idea to come onto the Lounge and complain to a bunch of non-believers. And PLEASE, do not even think of obtaining the software illegally. I am certain your fellow Church members would not want illegal activities being used to perfom work for the Church.
Oh any money that went to the software would be mine anyway. I'd just do it through the church to save money on it. It's not that I wouldn't be able to afford the software myself. I'm going to be getting a lot of money in the near future. But if I can cut corners on costs or something to get the best stuff I will. I'm actually debating picking up an new iBook for our associate pastor as a ordination present (I figure you only get ordained once).

My frustration is more the fact that Adobe would have this sort of policy, not how much it affect me. This is a matter of principle more than anything. This is the sort of thing that has me considering never buying a copy of the creative suite, which I was planning on doing as soon as they supported core image.
     
Superchicken  (op)
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Jun 13, 2005, 08:11 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chuckit
They will only support organizations that are solely charities. If members of your church want to do charitable work, there's nothing stopping you from forming a true charity. If you refuse to separate this into two organizations, it's a clear sign that your charitable work is not just charitable.

It seems pretty clear to me that Adobe means to exclude every organization that isn't a proper charity. They specifically explain about churches because there are a lot of people like Superchicken who assume that churches would be excluded from this requirement.
What exactly is a PROPER charity? One that fits in your secular humanist box?
     
Chuckit
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Jun 13, 2005, 08:13 PM
 
Originally Posted by Superchicken
What exactly is a PROPER charity? One that fits in your secular humanist box?
One that is solely a charitable organization as recognized by the government, and not just part of a church/business/rich dude's savings account. Can I make this any clearer?

And I haven't insulted your religion. I don't think it's called for to sling religious insults at me.
Chuck
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factoid
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Jun 13, 2005, 08:13 PM
 
Who needs facts when they have faith?

I applaud Adobe for their stance. I have yet to see a church that is truly a charity (even though some are charitable). How many of them will help the helpless without a mention of their prophet of choice?

True charity is religion-free just as it is free of any propaganda.

Johnny says "flame on!"
     
Superchicken  (op)
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Jun 13, 2005, 08:14 PM
 
Originally Posted by thomasv
From a practical standpoint. Church's do not have to publish a statement detailing their financials like other non-profits. So how do we know that you are really doing what you are saying your doing? We don't.

I read it as Adobe is saying that they are discriminating against organizations that a) discrimnate against others based on their religous background, or b) 501(c)3's that do not have some degree of financial transparency and objective evidence that they are fufilling their stated mission.
Every church I've ever been a regular attender at has had a yearly meeting to go over the yearly budget? Say how much behind or ahead they were on giving to the different funds required. I remember laughing at my parents when I showed them our budget because apparently despite my church being only slightly larger than theirs we have almost double their budget (then again when over half your congregation is involved in some sort of service with the church through out the year, that does help motivate them to give because they see the value in where they are putting their money, and they see how much it can help people.)
     
Kilbey
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Jun 13, 2005, 08:14 PM
 
Originally Posted by Superchicken
Why should pretentious brats like you be beaten with a blunt object? Because they actually deserve it...
Are you kidding?!?!
     
factoid
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Jun 13, 2005, 08:16 PM
 
No--christian.

Religion is the opiate of the masses.

Never let religion interfere with your spirituality.
     
Superchicken  (op)
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Jun 13, 2005, 08:17 PM
 
Originally Posted by factoid
Who needs facts when they have faith?

I applaud Adobe for their stance. I have yet to see a church that is truly a charity (even though some are charitable). How many of them will help the helpless without a mention of their prophet of choice?

True charity is religion-free just as it is free of any propaganda.

Johnny says "flame on!"
My church regularly has offerings that are simply stated to be, "for those in need" those who are in need are never brought out publicly to be seen or anything like that. Odds are if they knew they'd be brought out in front of the church or have anyone even know they were being helped they would be too self-conscious to accept anything.
My guess is that you have never really attended many real churches, or paid much attention if you visited. Simply because in your limited experience you have not seen it, does not mean it doesn't happen.
Just to note, if you're ever at a church and they say they're having a good will offering, a special offering, anything other than the regular offering odds are they are trying to raise additional money for someone who they don't want to embarrass.
     
Superchicken  (op)
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Jun 13, 2005, 08:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by Kilbey
Are you kidding?!?!
of course.
     
Superchicken  (op)
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Jun 13, 2005, 08:20 PM
 
Originally Posted by factoid
No--christian.

Religion is the opiate of the masses.

Never let religion interfere with your spirituality.
Next thing you're gonna do is tell me that relative truth is absolutely true...
     
jackSprat
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Jun 13, 2005, 08:21 PM
 
Wow. I hope that you don't intend to waste a whole day on this, 'cause that would clearly be a waste of valuable time that coulda been better used serving our Father and giving Christians such a wonderful reputation for being too weird at the same time. I can't believe I wasted 15 minutes reading through this thread.
     
Superchicken  (op)
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Jun 13, 2005, 08:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chuckit
One that is solely a charitable organization as recognized by the government, and not just part of a church/business/rich dude's savings account. Can I make this any clearer?

And I haven't insulted your religion. I don't think it's called for to sling religious insults at me.
Rich dude's savings? Do you have any idea what the average salary of a pastor in north america is? I'll give you a hint. It's probably lower than yours... unless your age and immaturity actually do match.
     
factoid
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Jun 13, 2005, 08:22 PM
 
I have attended many services at many houses of worship for many different sects, creeds and religions. Even studied comparative religions in college. The more I learn about religion the less I like it. For me. Gets in the way of relating to that which many call 'God.'

Religions are many different doors into the same room. Your door is no more or less special than mine.

If your religion works for you, more power to you. Just keep it to yourself and I'll keep mine to myself.

And how often does your church donate the charitable monies raised to secular charities?
     
burgessa23
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Jun 13, 2005, 08:22 PM
 
I totally agree with Adobe on this, Churches (religions) are descriminatory by nature as are political parties, republicans exclude liberal dems, catholics exclude jews etc... this is a solid policy that should be applauded, especially today when a right-wing christiina conservative leader announced that all homosexuals should have to wear labels on their clothing so people would know to steer clear!! (anyone here remember Hitler???).

when companies or governments start to do favors for special interest groups its a bad thing

if a religious group gets a discount, why can't I have a discount for being an atheist??


-Andrew
     
Kilbey
Baninated
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Michigan, USA
Status: Offline
Jun 13, 2005, 08:23 PM
 
Originally Posted by factoid
Who needs facts when they have faith?

I applaud Adobe for their stance. I have yet to see a church that is truly a charity (even though some are charitable). How many of them will help the helpless without a mention of their prophet of choice?

True charity is religion-free just as it is free of any propaganda.

Johnny says "flame on!"
Isn't helping them by making sure they have eternal life in Heaven worthwhile? They will certainly help them is this life also, but how much more to help them in their determination of eternity.

Our Church will help anyone who asks and proves a need. They will also get counseling in what has caused them to have the need. They will also get help from us by our mentioning our "prophet of choice" simply because we view that as infinitly more important.
     
Superchicken  (op)
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Winnipeg
Status: Offline
Jun 13, 2005, 08:24 PM
 
Originally Posted by Bluesky
OK, I'm back, couldn't resist,

ChickenLittle, at least 4 other members have posted the exact same thing I did. Would you like to know why you can't let the answer in? No? Well, I'll tell ya anyway because I'm in a charitable mood today.

You won't get the answer because you've already given yourself the answer...the one you want. Why did you start this thread if you already have the answer? Do you want agreement? Have you noticed you're not getting any, Skippy?

I say quit while you're behind.
By the way, simply because everyone thinks you're wrong, doesn't mean you're ever wrong. You're only wrong if you actually are wrong. Everyone else's stupidity does not determine my intelligence.
     
beanybean
Fresh-Faced Recruit
Join Date: Jun 2005
Status: Offline
Jun 13, 2005, 08:24 PM
 
Originally Posted by mprewitt99
Adobe is free to do whatever they want. The only thing that bothers me is that they deny gifts to religious charities even if those charities are not descriminatory in their charitable acts. Why would they do that? I can think of reasons, but none of them are good.
The reason is this: how would Adobe distinguish which religion based charites were which? It would be a LOT more trouble than it is worth, you gotta admit, to give away stuff that normal people are paying for. Adobe is playing it safe by not allowing religion focused groups to get discounts, because based on history, religions are known to discriminate.... a lot. Seriously, after some of the things the christian church has done... im surprised there so so many christians that still have faith in the church itself, apart from the values Jesus promoted.

And to superchicken - go have a f***ing fundraiser for yourself; I'm sure everyone will take up your cause like good christians. Maybe you can start a new nazi regime, conquer someone's country together, or reinstate slavery!
( Last edited by beanybean; Jun 13, 2005 at 08:31 PM. )
     
Kilbey
Baninated
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Michigan, USA
Status: Offline
Jun 13, 2005, 08:26 PM
 
There seem to be a lot of new members in this thread. Weird.
     
zoetrope
Junior Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Seattle, WA
Status: Offline
Jun 13, 2005, 08:26 PM
 
Originally Posted by Superchicken
Why should pretentious brats like you be beaten with a blunt object? Because they actually deserve it...
Hey Superjerk, I don't think you've been reading the good book. I think you're a hypocrite and anything but a Christian. And its statements like that as proof of your self righteous moralizing that will get you into trouble each and every time. You should be worrying about your own soul, not those of others.
-- Power Mac G5 Dual 2.7GHz | 2.5GB RAM | 2x250GB HDs | 16x SuperDrive | 20" ACD
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Chuckit
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: San Diego, CA, USA
Status: Offline
Jun 13, 2005, 08:29 PM
 
Originally Posted by Superchicken
Rich dude's savings? Do you have any idea what the average salary of a pastor in north america is? I'll give you a hint. It's probably lower than yours... unless your age and immaturity actually do match.
Good grief, you must be trying to be antagonistic. I never said pastors were rich. "Church," "business" and "rich dude's savings account" were three separate things. I was saying that Adobe requires a charity to be just a charity, not anything else. Now is that clear enough?
Chuck
___
"Instead of either 'multi-talented' or 'multitalented' use 'bisexual'."
     
burgessa23
Junior Member
Join Date: Jan 2004
Status: Offline
Jun 13, 2005, 08:30 PM
 
There seem to be a lot of new members in this thread. Weird.

that's cos it's linked from the macnn homepage

-Andrew
     
factoid
Fresh-Faced Recruit
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Planet Earth
Status: Offline
Jun 13, 2005, 08:31 PM
 
"They will also get help from us by our mentioning our "prophet of choice" simply because we view that as infinitly more important."

Of course. That's the point. Yours is important to you and you feel a need to spread it. And people aren't going to get help without a dose of it, whether they truly want it or not.

The teachings of the prophets are great. How people implement them is disturbing.
     
 
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