[nayr x]

Any opinions on which is better for animation?
Any killer features in one or the other that might tip the ballance?

In the next two or three days I will be ordering one or the other. If anyone has any comments, please dont keep them secret.

thanx!

[loki74]

I just ordered Lightwave [8]. Got the UPS shipment confirmation/tracking number literally 2 hours ago.

The big motivator here is that for a limited time you get Vue 5 Infinite for free with purchace. (In case you didn't already know, Vue can create ridiculously realistic environments, and can match-move with both Maya and LW) You also get an upgrade to LW[9] (I think, but could be wrong)

Obviously, Maya is used much more in the professional environment; they're the big dogs. This also means that the program is massively complex. I downloaded the PLE, and I find modeling a little difficult--I couldn't quite figure out how to get the SDS to work, and I really kind of hate NURBS.

That being said, Maya has some amazing effects tools--when I think of Maya, I think of photorealism more than I think of animation. The FluidFX is amazing--water, fire, air, any fluid be it gas or liquid... amazing.

Obviously, the Lightwave interface probably follows the Apple HI Guidelines less out of the two. This is the huge downside I see, as well as the fact that its modeling interface (Modeler) is separate from its animation interface (Layout). It seems less efficient than having just one application.

Anyway, what I lik about Lightwave is how easy it looks to do SDS--the modeling tools are pretty impressive. As for animation, the big seller for me is IK Boost--check out the feature highlight on the NewTek website for this feature--it makes character rigging a whole lot easier. Another thing I like is that you can edit tension, continuity, and bias of each keyframe spline point w/o even loading up the graph editor.

What I would suggest you do is download the PLE of Maya, and mess with that. LW doesn't have any trial thing going on, but they have an extensive amount of video tutorials online. They're meant to teach people the program, but they sold it for me. But if you like LW, act quick caus I don't know how long the Vue 5 Infinite offer will last...

=============

Obviously, if you can afford it, Maya Unlimited is the end-all 3D modeling/animation/rendering package that will get you reeal experience you'll use if you plan on landing a job at ILM or Pixar or what have you, as well as impressive results, all assuming you're willing to take that learning curve. But for its price, LW offers great features, and Vue isn't hurting either. It just depends on what your priorities are.

[Tyre MacAdmin]

Maya is more difficult to learn... but LW's interface seems to change every release at least somewhat... which I don't like. Most places that teach modeling usually want you to use 3DS Max first then they bump you to Maya once you're at home with 3DS. Lightwave is used less than both but I think it's good to at least know how to use it. Keep in mind that any real production house is going to have in house programmers that will be creating plug-in's for whatever modeling apps that they choose to use for a given movie... that means that even if you do know Maya you'll still need to learn how to use all the plug-ins that they make as well. Sometimes it's a big thing, sometimes it's not. My advice would be Maya since you know it's not going to change any time soon.

[jhogarty]

I've been using Lightwave, not professionally, since version 4.0 I believe. It is a great program, especially at its current price. I also just bought the upgrade to version 9.0 to get the copy of Vue.

I don't recall the interface changing much at all in the past 3 releases. Not sure what Tyler means. My only problem is that I don't get to use it as much as I used to so I have forgotten so much.

Good luck on your Lightwave experience. I particularly like some of the books/material by Dan Ablan.

J.

[Tyre MacAdmin]

Well it's like loki74 said... the Lightwave interface follows the Apple HI Guidelines less out of the two and every release changes subtleties in the program. LW is a good app that a lot of houses use, but Maya is still the best thing to learn to be on the safe side.

[loki74]

Yeah, learning Maya would without a doubt make you more valuable to an employer. The reason I got LW (Should be in Monday! wee!) is mainly because the Maya (even the PLE) is so freaking heavy... What I'm using right now is lightweight (maybe even a little too much so) and I needed something in between. LW was the ticket.

So while the UI is a bit of a hangup, the price and features are very good... Maya is more "rewarding" if you will, but learning it is extremely difficult.

If you do go the Maya route, I would go all the way and get May Unlimited, and I would start making 3D projects on some simpler program, like Cheetah3D or something. I started on Animation:Master. When I tried messing with the Maya PLE before A:M, It was just impossible. After a while with A:M though, I could model some simple things. So it would definately behoove you imo to familiarize yourself with a simple lightweight environment before diving into Maya. But if you already have 3D experience, forget you read this last paragraph and good luck!

[Tyre MacAdmin]

You could also get the Maya learning edition... i just downloaded it myself! (been a long time since I mess around with it)

[loki74]

Looking on various boards (SpinQuad and CGTalk, namely) this seems to be the general consensus:

Maya kicks ass at animation/sfx, not so good at modeling
Lightwave kicks ass at modeling, lacking in the animation and rendering dept

However, the rendering features in LW[9] look impressive, hopefully worth the wait. Furthermore, in the future I will probably buy a 3rd party renderer anyway. One that looks very impressive is Maxwell Render. Vray and Fprime are especially popular with LW. Obviousy, mental ray is the choice for Maya, and is included in the Maya package. Very powerful and renowned renderer, to nobody's great surprise, I'm sure.

[Tyre MacAdmin]

The movie "Driven" was done with LW... pretty cool cgi.

[loki74]

never saw that one... I guess I'll have to look in to it!

[budster101]

What about 3D Studio Max? It's a pretty good program, but I like the fact that you can get MLE (Maya Learning Edition for Free) 3D Studio Max / Viz are just too restrictive and I don't think they offer a learning edition.

[Tyre MacAdmin]

3DSMAX is expensive... but a ton of places use it... not to mention is supports the DirextX API.

[loki74]

3DS Max is not a program I would consider; I dislike Descreet as a company...

I also would not reccomened it for major animation purposes in film etc. 3DS Max is famous for game development. If you plan on making games, it is defintaly THE solution for you. (Maya is used in some games, but less. Same with LW, but even less still) I would tend to believe that the DirectX/Direct3D support also has something to do with this. If you want to make games you'll definately want to have DX/D3D on your side. (Xbox, anyone?)

Oh and budster, just for the sake of my being a nitpicky asshole--you mean PLE; personal learning edition.. Maya PLE...

As far as other programs that are floating around there... you've got Maxxon Cinema 4D, Softimage | XSI, and I believe I mentioned Hash Animation:Master and Cheetah3D. There are some others, but I don't know exactly what they do (Wings, Silo, Houdini, etc)

[budster101]

What did I write? I'm too tired to scroll up to see.

Ok, ok, UNCLE.

[loki74]

hehe...

Well Lightwave and Vue just came in the mail.. I gotta say, the LW UI will DEFINATELY take some getting used to... but I'm sure it will be worth it!

I would say my biggest hangup is actually that with the toolbar on the side, the "more" buttons are there no matter what, even if your screen could easily hold the extra buttons. Actually, scratch that. On second thought, the bigest hangup for me is that the menu items are part of this side bar, as opposed to the conventional OSX menubar. All they have in the OSX menubar is File, Edit, and Menu... yeesh.

Maybe they'll change it in LW[9]?? (whishful thinking I guess)

[outsiderlookingin]

Once you wrap your head around the way Maya works it's is much more intuitive. It's desinged a little more open so you have more freedom with creativity and customization. For modeling, go get modo 201 or 101...I think it's $150 educational. It's a very powerful modeler that is fast and very smooth, interface and function.

[grovberg]

Uhhh...isn't 3d studio max PC only?

[budster101]

Uhm. never mind. I've not gotten much sleep lately.

Sorry about that. Autodesk sucks ass... first it was kinetics, then discreet, now Autodesk owns them....

Whatever. Use Maya.

[loki74]

Yes, MAX is PC only... if I haven't made my distaste for that program evident already, let me state it right out. I would not even cosider using Max. No way.

[fluffmaster]

Any of you checked out this one Modo?
http://www.luxology.com/modo/

Seems like it might be a cool 'sidekick' app to run alongside your main workhorse.

But yeah, I agree with all these other peeps. Maya is the ticket.
There's a nasty learning curve at first, but if you want to learn it-
stick to it and you will. There's tons of resources online and tuts
to follow, just go for it. You won't find a more complete package.

[outsiderlookingin]

just watched an apple seminar with the pres of modo last night, and I'm very impressed. They have some very nifty falloff tools that you can combine with other tools and, basically, make these macros that are very useful. I've downloaded the demo and the speed is very impressive, especially with large meshes.

[loki74]

You know... I was just thinking. Would it be possible to set up with no real full 3D packages? I mean think about it. You could have Modo to model, MotionBuilder to animate, and mental ray or vray or maxwell (maxwell looks very kick ass...) to render...

granted that would be difficult, juggling 3 different companies and stuff. but I think it would be interesting to see if it could work.

[Super Glitcher]

Loki, if you have the time to test it out I'd be curious to know :-)

[loki74]

Originally Posted by Super Glitcher

Loki, if you have the time to test it out I'd be curious to know :-)

oh I think I may have the time.. but the money on the other hand.... hehe no way.

[loki74]

just in case anyone is still following this thread:

I dont mean to bump this thread up yet again, but if any of you dont visit the lounge (or other 3d forums or news sites) I think it is important to mention now that Alias has been bought by Autodesk. Until we know exactly what Autodesk plans on doing with Maya, (Especialy regarding Mac-compatability) I think it may be best to hold off on a purchase.

I should also mention that the thread in the lounge is not completely accurate--it says that compatability has been cut, but we really don't have any such facts at this point, AFAIK.

[Super Glitcher]

I'm seriously going to start crying.