[FireWire]

I just saw a video on CNN's website and I'm outraged, mad and angry, after seeing how unprofessionnal police officer are... I don't know the whole story, but what they showed us was a police chase on the highway, the guy stops, falls from the car and is already on his back, and officers swarm over him and starts punching him in the stomach repeatedly. It's clear that they weren't using force to restrain him, but simply as a vengeance, as to say "you little motherfu, that'll learn you to try to escape, you bastard". The guy was already on the ground, not resisting or anything, there was no need to step on him and punch him like that. Furthermore, as they try to close the car's door, which was stuck over his belly (the guy is obese), the officer simply pulls really hard without any precaution.

Finally, one officer tackle a girl to the ground, who wasn't in the car to begin with. It's not clear if she's involved or not (she looks to be), but there was certainly no need to treat her like that, like he was trying to tackle a 300 pounds quarter-back... damn, she's like 100 pounds, he could've broke her bones...

Here's the video...

Clearly, the guy was wrong to lead them on a chase, but there is no place for such behavior from police officers. There are procedure that need to be followed, and above all, emotion should not prevail, nor the desire for vengeance...

Originally Posted by FireWire 

I don't know the whole story, but ...

That's why I don't watch these sensationalized "news" videos.

[ort888]

Don't want to get beat up? Don't lead the cops on a dangerous high speed chase. It's really that simple.

It's unfortunate about the woman being tackled, but he probably thought she was in the car, you have about half a second to make that call and it's better to err on the side of caution.

[D. S. Troyer]

I don't think there were enough police. They should have called for more.

[elyzabennet]

I'm okay with the police tackling the woman. She was obviously involved. He is handing her a wad of cash as he is coming out of the car. Nobody who does not know the guy is going to think it's ok to approach this guy who is offering cash with a cop car right behind him.

[starman]

Abuse? That's debatable.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by ort888 

Don't want to get beat up? Don't lead the cops on a dangerous high speed chase. It's really that simple.

So the law doesn't apply to the police anymore once YOU have broken a law ?

Yeah, nice, only in Amaraca!

-t

[starman]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

So the law doesn't apply to the police anymore once YOU have broken a law ?

Yeah, nice, only in Amaraca!

-t

Right, because it only happens here, right? Give me a f'n break.

BBC NEWS | England | Lincolnshire | Police 'abuse' verdict considered

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by starman 

Right, because it only happens here, right? Give me a f'n break.

BBC NEWS | England | Lincolnshire | Police 'abuse' verdict considered

Hey, that's Doofy's problem.

-t

[TravisReynolds]

will this cheer you up?

YouTube - LAPD at March 15 Hollywood Anonymous Scientology Protest

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by TravisReynolds 

will this cheer you up?

YouTube - LAPD at March 15 Hollywood Anonymous Scientology Protest

Wow, best cop ever. He needs a promotion and a raise.

[Cipher13]

Welcome to reality. The type of people that become cops are power-hungry, violent, sadistic assholes, generally.

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

Wow, best cop ever. He needs a promotion and a raise.

2nded.

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally Posted by ort888 

Don't want to get beat up? Don't lead the cops on a dangerous high speed chase. It's really that simple.

High Speed Car Chases are reckless to begin with. Is playing around with the general public's lives really worth catching these petty thieves/traffic delinquents?

Especially in situations where they have a freaking chopper.

[subego]

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - 

Is playing around with the general public's lives really worth catching these petty thieves/traffic delinquents?

Evading arrest in a vehicle is generally a felony of some type.

IOW, your question would be relevant if the people involved hadn't earned themselves an upgrade from "delinquent" status.

[- - e r i k - -]

No. My question would NOT be relevant if the police hadn't endangered the lives of innocents.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by starman 

Right, because it only happens here, right? Give me a f'n break.

BBC NEWS | England | Lincolnshire | Police 'abuse' verdict considered

I quote:

allegedly insulted and physically intimidated

Wow. Can't we all just get along?

[subego]

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - 

No. My question would be relevant if the police did NOT endanger the lives of innocents.

Is this what you intended to type? I honestly can't make head or tails of it (not trying to be snarky, I'm serious).

You're saying your question would be relevant... so you're agreeing that it isn't relevant. Gee that was easy.

Of course it only (would be) relevant if the police did NOT do something which they do in fact do... therefore your question is irrelevant. Okay, no argument there.


Needless to say, I can gather from the single word "no" at the beginning of your sentence, that what I just regurgitated isn't what your are trying to say, but I swear to Christ that's what it looks like, and I've read it a dozen times now.

[further attempt at puzzling this out redacted, it's just making my head hurt]

Edit2: If it helps, let me rephrase my original statement:

Your question would be relevant if it asked "why do the police endanger civilians to capture felons?"

That's not what you asked though, you asked why do they do it for "petty thieves/traffic delinquents"? We're not talking about petty thieves and traffic delinquents, we're talking about felons.

That they decided to become felons because of getting nicked for petty thievery is irrelevant, and the fact one half of your question is an irrelevancy sort of takes the piss out of it.

Just in case it isn't clear, I don't want the piss taken out of it. The half that is relevant is good stuff.

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally Posted by subego 

Is this what you intended to type? I honestly can't make head or tails of it (not trying to be snarky, I'm serious).

You're saying your question would be relevant... so you're agreeing that it isn't relevant. Gee that was easy.

That is the very definition of snarky right there. Pat yourself on the back.

[James L]

Originally Posted by Cipher13 

Welcome to reality. The type of people that become cops are power-hungry, violent, sadistic assholes, generally.

And the type of people who make ignorant generalizations like that are internet armchair quarterbacks with no concept of what the job entails, generally.

[James L]

Originally Posted by FireWire 

I just saw a video on CNN's website and I'm outraged, mad and angry, after seeing how unprofessionnal police officer are... I don't know the whole story, but what they showed us was a police chase on the highway, the guy stops, falls from the car and is already on his back, and officers swarm over him and starts punching him in the stomach repeatedly. It's clear that they weren't using force to restrain him, but simply as a vengeance, as to say "you little motherfu, that'll learn you to try to escape, you bastard". The guy was already on the ground, not resisting or anything, there was no need to step on him and punch him like that. Furthermore, as they try to close the car's door, which was stuck over his belly (the guy is obese), the officer simply pulls really hard without any precaution.

Finally, one officer tackle a girl to the ground, who wasn't in the car to begin with. It's not clear if she's involved or not (she looks to be), but there was certainly no need to treat her like that, like he was trying to tackle a 300 pounds quarter-back... damn, she's like 100 pounds, he could've broke her bones...

Here's the video...

Clearly, the guy was wrong to lead them on a chase, but there is no place for such behavior from police officers. There are procedure that need to be followed, and above all, emotion should not prevail, nor the desire for vengeance...

I don't know the whole story either, but whatever... the dude is a criminal. For all we know he has a lengthy record. He endangered the general public with the chase for sure, and quite possibly with his actions that led up to the chase.

I just can't find a lot of sympathy for the guy. Don't want to get injured? Don't break the law.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by Cipher13 

Welcome to reality. The type of people that become cops are power-hungry, violent, sadistic assholes, generally.

c...c...cash?
I know it's not. But the similarities are striking.

[Cipher13]

Originally Posted by James L 

And the type of people who make ignorant generalizations like that are internet armchair quarterbacks with no concept of what the job entails, generally.

To assume I know nothing of it is pretty stupid of you.

Do note, also, that I did say "in general". It's not true of all cops, but it's true of a very large number of them.

I notice you didn't actually dispute what I said - because I'm right.

[Cipher13]

Originally Posted by James L 

I don't know the whole story either, but whatever... the dude is a criminal. For all we know he has a lengthy record. He endangered the general public with the chase for sure, and quite possibly with his actions that led up to the chase.

I just can't find a lot of sympathy for the guy. Don't want to get injured? Don't break the law.

He endangered the public less than the cops did.

They're guilty of the same recklessness as he is, *and* of agitating the other guy, causing him to be even more aggressive and dangerous.

High-speed chases should never happen on the road, it's ludicrous.

I also love how you assume he's guilty, just because he's being chased by cops. Ever think about the possibility that they forced him into a corner? That doesn't excuse endangering the public, but it's still something to consider.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by Cipher13 

He endangered the public less than the cops did.

They're guilty of the same recklessness as he is, *and* of agitating the other guy, causing him to be even more aggressive and dangerous.

False. Every jackass thinks he or she is the best driving on the road, but when it comes down to it, police are trained in how to drive that way. I'm not saying every cop is a perfect driver, but it's much more likely that a cop is going to be a better driver than the random obese idiot on the road.

High-speed chases should never happen on the road, it's ludicrous.

Where do you draw the line? What's "high" speed. Should the cops not be able to speed? Could I do 75 in a 65 and effectively lose the police?

I also love how you assume he's guilty, just because he's being chased by cops. Ever think about the possibility that they forced him into a corner? That doesn't excuse endangering the public, but it's still something to consider.

"Force him into a corner?" If I'm innocent and I see three cops flying up behind me, do I run? Of course not.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by Cipher13 

To assume I know nothing of it is pretty stupid of you.

Do note, also, that I did say "in general". It's not true of all cops, but it's true of a very large number of them.

I notice you didn't actually dispute what I said - because I'm right.

I'd love to see non-anecdotal data to back this up.

[Cipher13]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

False. Every jackass thinks he or she is the best driving on the road, but when it comes down to it, police are trained in how to drive that way. I'm not saying every cop is a perfect driver, but it's much more likely that a cop is going to be a better driver than the random obese idiot on the road.

Bah, that's irrelevant bullshit. You can only train so much - there's too much unpredictability for high-speed chases to *ever* be safe. I don't care if cops are marginally better drivers than most people, it's still incredibly dangerous, and the police still made matters WORSE by partaking.

Where do you draw the line? What's "high" speed. Should the cops not be able to speed? Could I do 75 in a 65 and effectively lose the police?

More than 10 or 15 over the limit? Km/h, that is. Yes, they should not be allowed to speed in dangerous situations - chases, weaving in and out of high-speed traffic, and so forth.

Uh, that's what they have choppers and radios for - you can communicate with other cops in the area so you don't NEED to follow the guy around trying to nudge him.

"Force him into a corner?" If I'm innocent and I see three cops flying up behind me, do I run? Of course not.

Ah, always black and white. You can be guilty of a crime and not have actually done anything wrong, you know. Also, people panic. People do stupid ****. There's no need to exacerbate the situation.

[Cipher13]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

I'd love to see non-anecdotal data to back this up.

Unfortunately, you won't. It's my personal experience, nothing more.

By the way, I don't think cops put their abuses in their reports, do you?

[ort888]

So what do we do? Set the precedent that all a crook has to do is drive away fast and they get to go scott free?

Again, seriously, if you don't want to get tackled and punched by cops, don't lead them on dangerous high speed chases. Don't give them reasons to chase you.

I'm not saying that what they did was OK, but we don't know the story. Maybe this guy was armed. Maybe he bit one of the cops when they tackled him. Maybe he killed some people. Who knows.

I think it's really great that our law enforcement officers have very strict rules concerning their conduct... unfortunately, the crooks don't afford them the same courtesy.

[Cipher13]

Sorry, but it's not worth catching a (most likely) petty thief by driving ridiculously dangerously and potentially killing innocent commuters. If you think it is, there's something wrong with you.

And again - helicopters!

High-speed chases are illegal in Australia, so you know what happens here instead? They follow crims through the air, and dispatch officers to areas they are likely to go. If they're going down the freeway? Stick a cop at every exit along the way. Where's he gonna go then?

[TheWOAT]

Theres also the video of 5 cops strip searching a 5'4 120 lb woman in a holding cell for no apparant reason. Go Raiders.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by Cipher13 

Unfortunately, you won't. It's my personal experience, nothing more.

It'd be really nice from now on if you'd include an "in my experience" disclaimer before making any brash generalizations in the future.

Originally Posted by Cipher13 

Sorry, but it's not worth catching a (most likely) petty thief

Once again, where's the data to back up that statement? Why is it that you believe most high speed chases are results of petty theft?

And again - helicopters!

Because every police station can easily afford a couple choppers and pilots. I'd be surprised if there were more than two or three police choppers in the entire state of Iowa, let alone enough to be effective in catching criminals running in the middle of nowhere.

[ort888]

Originally Posted by Cipher13 

Sorry, but it's not worth catching a (most likely) petty thief by driving ridiculously dangerously and potentially killing innocent commuters. If you think it is, there's something wrong with you.

And again - helicopters!

High-speed chases are illegal in Australia, so you know what happens here instead? They follow crims through the air, and dispatch officers to areas they are likely to go. If they're going down the freeway? Stick a cop at every exit along the way. Where's he gonna go then?

Wow. It's so easy. You should move to America and whip us into shape. Our local police department is hiring. With radical ideas like yours, you'll make captain in no time. You can fix all the problem from the inside and before you know everyone will be dancing in the streets holding hands in our prefect utopia!

[Cipher13]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

It'd be really nice from now on if you'd include an "in my experience" disclaimer before making any brash generalizations in the future.

Because you lack the sense to assume that anything anyone says is "in their experience", unless otherwise referenced? Sorry, but no.

Once again, where's the data to back up that statement? Why is it that you believe most high speed chases are results of petty theft?

Most criminal acts are "petty", as opposed to "serious". Thus, it's a safe assumption - though nothing more. If you're so hung up on data, what's your source? What basis do you have to assume I'm wrong?

I'm not supplying anything because I honestly can't be ****ed. If you care enough to look it up, go ahead, but I really don't.

Because every police station can easily afford a couple choppers and pilots. I'd be surprised if there were more than two or three police choppers in the entire state of Iowa, let alone enough to be effective in catching criminals running in the middle of nowhere.

Do you think car chases are so common that there aren't enough choppers to go around? If you had multiple chases in every district at any one time, that might be an issue. Are they indeed that common? If not, your point is moot. One chopper can probably service a huge area, with regard to tracking criminals.

You'll also find that crime is concentrated in high-population areas, so it's not all that important to have a chopper to catch criminals running in the middle of nowhere, as you say, but if a major city had one or two for its entire greater area, that'd be more than sufficient.

[Cipher13]

Originally Posted by ort888 

Wow. It's so easy. You should move to America and whip us into shape. Our local police department is hiring. With radical ideas like yours, you'll make captain in no time. You can fix all the problem from the inside and before you know everyone will be dancing in the streets holding hands in our prefect utopia!

Obviously, you're a ****ing moron.

Have fun with your eyes glued to your rearview looking out for reckless cops.

[ort888]

Obviously.

I don't fear cops. I used to when I was younger. My friends and I used to walk around at night and try and get cops to harass us. We were junior suburban white-boy revolutionaries. Later in life I lived in squat houses with addicts, wanted criminals and drug dealers.

I now have a better understanding of how the world works and no longer view things in simplified extremes. One of my best friends is a police officer and it's very enlightening hearing his stories from an inside perspective. I have other friends who are (figuratively) making molitov cocktails to take the system down.

As always, the reality of the situation lies somewhere in the middle.

[ShortcutToMoncton]

The dude seemed to get kicked in the head before getting his face punched in.

Nice.

greg

[Rumor]

Remember the homeless guy who stole a city bus during the late 90's in San Diego? When he got out of the bus, he laid on his stomach. Even though he didn't hurt anyone, the cops dropped knees into his back, hard. Also, one of the cops didn't set the break on his car and it ran up and onto the guys leg.

[D. S. Troyer]

The cops in my town are all assholes. Give them a gun and a badge and they think they are superior. Cipher is totally spot on.

[Dakar the Fourth]

Originally Posted by Rumor 

Remember the homeless guy who stole a city bus during the late 90's in San Diego?

No, but this sounds totally awesome.

[peeb]

Originally Posted by ort888 

As always, the reality of the situation lies somewhere in the middle.

What a ridiculous statement.

[subego]

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - 

That is the very definition of snarky right there. Pat yourself on the back.

I said "I can't make heads or tails of what you are saying" wasn't being snarky, I didn't want you to think I was saying you were ignorant or something, because I wasn't.

I followed that with two snarky statements which I explicitly stated were NOT what I felt you were saying.

"I can gather from the single word "no" at the beginning of your sentence, that what I just regurgitated [the snarky statements] isn't what your are trying to say, but I swear to Christ that's what it looks like, and I've read it a dozen times now."

I've emphasized this because I feel it is vital to the point I was trying to make and was apparently ignored by you.

Again, my point was to have a debate containing useful information. I apologize if you think my purpose was to take a shot at you. I can provide no other defense than the words of the post to which you responded.

[Shaddim]

During the summer, invite the local cops to your home for a BBQ (get a keg too). This builds great relations with them and keeps them off your ass for minor sh*t.

[sek929]

We had a few local cops (off duty at the time) over my old house for beers and food multiple times.

Just last week I was bowling and one of the cops I knew was working there. He busted some teenager for having weed, didn't arrest him though, just confiscated it.

At the end of the night as I'm leaving he hands the bag to me and says "have fun."

Befriend cops and they will do the same.

[d4nth3m4n]

wow, i totally forgot we had a censored smiley.

[olePigeon]

Every cop I've met has been nice. My one and only ticket was handed to me with an apology (I got a speeding ticket for doing 70 in a 65 zone during "no tolerance.")

I worked for several years at a few finishing schools, and the cops there were nothing but cool. Nice guys and gals.

If you ask any cop who's been in a pursuit chase they'll tell you it's really hard to keep the adrenaline under control and remember your training. Anyone who's been in the military and seen some action would probably tell you the same thing. Perspective gets distorted, your memory goes to crap, and your decision skills are not all that great when you're pumped full of adrenaline and under pressure.

It may be excessive force, but from the cops' perspective, I assure you, it probably doesn't even seem like you're doing enough to apprehend the person.

There are bad cops out there, no doubt, but there are a lot more good cops. No point in being paranoid about it. Besides, most of the vehicle have cameras and microphones.

[ghporter]

If we knew exactly all of the details, including the means the guy who was running used to commit whatever offense it was that he was being chased for (big wad of cash? sounds like something involving drugs right off the bat), and whom and what he had hurt along the way, we might evaluate the final moments of the chase and the guy's apprehension differently. Did he run down a kid? Did he just sell a ton of drugs? Did he shoot someone? That's not part of the video, and in journalism circles that information is called "context."

The video, by itself is no more "journalism" than me chattering on about this issue-but it does sell advertising. Now for the punchline: if you LET THESE NON-JOURNALISTS MANIPULATE YOUR EMOTIONS THIS WAY, THEY HAVE JUST MADE MONEY OFF OF YOU. THEY HAVE USED YOU AND YOUR EMOTIONS AND GOTTEN RICHER BY DOING SO. How does THAT make you feel? I for one won't let those Liberal Arts dropouts get a penny off of me and my emotions, and that gives me a little bit of a warm feeling.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by Cipher13 

Most criminal acts are "petty", as opposed to "serious". Thus, it's a safe assumption - though nothing more. If you're so hung up on data, what's your source? What basis do you have to assume I'm wrong?

I have as much data as you do, except my position is more reasonable.

Do you think car chases are so common that there aren't enough choppers to go around? If you had multiple chases in every district at any one time, that might be an issue. Are they indeed that common? If not, your point is moot. One chopper can probably service a huge area, with regard to tracking criminals.

My statement had nothing to do with the frequency of car chases and everything to do with accessibility. Cop sees me doing 85 in a 70 and flips on the lights. I drop into third and in a matter of seconds I'm doing 130+. The cop can't speed, so within 10 minutes I've already gained 10 miles on him. How long does it take to get a chopper in the air? I'm betting more than 10 minutes. I'm not even suggesting the cop go to that speed, but at least keep within viewing distance and be close when I slam into a semi I didn't see coming.

[peeb]

Or you could just take the registration and radio ahead to other cops to watch the freeways exits. No chase needed.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by peeb 

Or you could just take the registration and radio ahead to other cops to watch the freeways exits. No chase needed.

Why don't police do that every time now?