[IamBob]

Thanks for the mostly positive feedback!

Very sorry about the G3 hiccups. I'm deving on an iLamp and didn't test on my B&W. Woops!

I talked to John and we figured out a way to get the framework in TinyTune's bundle. It'll use the non-altivec version that was/is in mpegToaster. Problem solved.

If it doesn't want to play a song, try double-clicking it...?

I'm surprised nobody said anything about the fact that you can't remove songs from the library or playlists!

I'll see if I can push another preview tonight that fixes the G3 problem and I should be able to re-add support for the icons.


Poll:
I use Random/Shuffle playback
1) all the time
2) some of the time
3) occasionally
4) almost never
5) random?

[crazyjohnson]

#1, all the time - I think most people would vote 1 or 2.

Originally posted by IamBob:
<STRONG>Poll:
I use Random/Shuffle playback
1) all the time
2) some of the time
3) occasionally
4) almost never
5) random?</STRONG>

[nonhuman]

Originally posted by IamBob:
<STRONG>Poll:
I use Random/Shuffle playback
1) all the time
2) some of the time
3) occasionally
4) almost never
5) random?</STRONG>

1, I almost never don't use shuffle.

[Dr Evil]

I never use anything but shuffle/random.

[davecom]

I'm writing a CD player called CCDP(Compact Compact Disk Player(Based on its low resource need versus iTunes)) and I'm about a week away from an alpha build. Is shuffle necessary for the alpha build?

[crazyjohnson]

For an alpha? No. You should be fine. A beta would be fine as well - your the developer, so you run the show. If the people dont like it, they dont have to use your app.

I like to play CD's without shuffle untill I have heard them many times.

Originally posted by davecom:
<STRONG>I'm writing a CD player called CCDP(Compact Compact Disk Player(Based on its low resource need versus iTunes)) and I'm about a week away from an alpha build. Is shuffle necessary for the alpha build?</STRONG>

[pierce1979]

Yeah, don't listen to nonhuman, he is out of touch with reality. ;-)

[[APi]TheMan]

Originally posted by IamBob:
<STRONG>Poll:
I use Random/Shuffle playback
1) all the time
2) some of the time
3) occasionally
4) almost never
5) random?</STRONG>

I don't think I've EVER used Shuffle. So my vote would be number 4 or 5.

[[APi]TheMan]

Originally posted by crazyjohnson:
<STRONG>I made my own non-Altivec version: just download the non-Altivec mpegToaster framework: http://www.toastedmarshmallow.com/Fr...Kit_RC2.tar.gz

Install the same way. GREAT JOB IAMBOB! All I need is a randomize playlist.</STRONG>

Ah, I did this too (I have a Pismo G3)... So far I don't see anything wrong with TinyTunes... It's very quick to switch songs and begin playing (via double click). I take it that TinyTunes isn't using mpg123 anymore...? Is that what the framework does?

[crazyjohnson]

You bet TinyTues DOES use mpg123 - the framework is a simple graphical front end for mpg123 called mpegToaster - so: TinyTues uses the mpegToaster framework, which uses mpg123.

Originally posted by [APi]TheMan:
<STRONG> I take it that TinyTunes isn't using mpg123 anymore...? Is that what the framework does?</STRONG>

[[APi]TheMan]

Originally posted by crazyjohnson:
<STRONG>You bet TinyTues DOES use mpg123 - the framework is a simple graphical front end for mpg123 called mpegToaster - so: TinyTues uses the mpegToaster framework, which uses mpg123.</STRONG>

I got it. Thanks for clearing that up for me, man. TinyTunes is very quick

[fitter]

Originally posted by crazyjohnson:
<STRONG>You bet TinyTues DOES use mpg123 - the framework is a simple graphical front end for mpg123 called mpegToaster - so: TinyTues uses the mpegToaster framework, which uses mpg123.
</STRONG>

mpegToasterKit has nothing to do with graphics. It's a Cocoa wrapper for mpg123: the mpg123 code has been compiled into the framework, which can then be used by other applications as the coder sees fit. If the framework were graphical, we'd be stuck with the miserable interface that kept mpegToaster from becoming more widely used.

In other news:

Mu 0.3.0 is available.

Features:

• Previous track support
• Current playing track information display
• Equalizer
• http support for listening to internet streams
• Log window
• Multithreading.
• Drawer finally opens where it's supposed to.
• Linear, Shuffled, and Randomized playback support!

No library or drag and drop yet. These will be in the next release, as will international localizations (thanks to a few volunteers).

[CarbonG4]

Hmm... you sure you posted the correct build of Mu 0.3.0? The new features don't seem to work at all. Shuffle/Random don't function when selected and the Equalizer seems non-existant other than the cool toolbar icon, which when clicked does nothing.

Sorry if I have overlooked something, I skimmed through the ReadMe's to make sure these weren't simply "non-implimented" features just added to the interface.

Regardless it's still looking very nice, keep up the great work

Later
-Carbon

[CarbonG4]

Well, however bizarre as it may sound shuffle started functioning after about 10 tracks... but it seems shuffle operates more like random should, in that when you select "previous" track it just randomly picks one rather than playing the previous song from the shuffled list. Selecting "next" also results in absolute random track selection. These are minor, and perhaps you intended for it to function like this.

-Carbon

[IamBob]

Wow, looks like Mu will keep me on my toes!


Poor TinyTunes still need some icons if someone is feeling up to it. If you like, you can email me at [email protected] if you have something to contribute.

Here's an updated version of TinyTunes

Looks like the next version needs to have random and shuffle!

Thanks.

[UBB code exploded]

[ 04-07-2002: Message edited by: IamBob ]

[fitter]

Yup, looks like I screwed up the equalizer. I left some code commented out, and as it stands, if you don't have an equalizer file, it won't get the playlist. I've corrected it, and will post the revised version shortly.

...

Mu 0.3.0a is now posted. Apologies for the error.

[fitter]

Yeah, previous track support isn't as fully realized as I'd like it to be. From the point at which it stands now it shouldn't be difficult to make the behaviour more predictable. Odd about the shuffled playback seeming linear. I don't have much to do with that other than telling mpg123 to make the playback shuffled or random; what it does after that is due to mpg123's own code. It's possible there's a bug in my own code that's not making the calls as it should. I'll take a look at it.

[Sharky K.]

Besides the bugs that you mentioned (I can't even play)
It would be nice if Mu could remember the shuffled etc... setting.

[[APi]TheMan]

I tried the new Mu (Version .3.0a) and the newest TinyTunes. I have to say that they are both very nice frontends. Very well done on both fitter and IamBob's parts.

I played some MP3s and dropped into the Terminal to see the CPU usage of both... Mu hovered at around 8 - 11%... whereas TinyTunes stayed at around 5 - 8%. Those are both not bad at all. Anywhere below 15% that's constant is good for my liking.

I have to say that I really like Mu's interface and functionality, and the feature set is very broad. TinyTunes isn't far behind.

Keep it up, guys It's a pleasure to see new versions

[edit: Mu .3.0a not .3.0]

[ 04-07-2002: Message edited by: [APi]TheMan ]

[Sharky K.]

Mu works now when I delete the old prefs

[pierce1979]

Looking good, anyone get the URL support workig in Mu .3.0a?

[fitter]

Originally posted by pierce1979:
<STRONG>Looking good, anyone get the URL support workig in Mu .3.0a?</STRONG>

If you're having trouble opening a URL, open the log window to see what mpg123 has to say about it (frequently it'll be something like "socket: connection refused" or "http request failed: 404 resource not found"). If you can't get it working from the GUI, try it from the command line. If it works from the command line, please send me the URL, and I'll see if I can make it work in the GUI.

Is the equalizer now working for everyone?

[Sharky K.]

I have the feeling the EQ is not working

btw, I send you 2 e-mails one with an idea and an other with an icon.

[nonhuman]

Mu 0.3.0a is sounding great. The EQ really helps, and I really like having the shuffle. One thing that would be nice is a volume control, I like being able to set the sound levels for my various app independently, so that I can have everything at an appropriate level without it affected other stuff (in case I want to play my music loudly without having my IM sounds be deafening).

[davecom]

Originally posted by fitter:
<STRONG>Yeah, previous track support isn't as fully realized as I'd like it to be. From the point at which it stands now it shouldn't be difficult to make the behaviour more predictable. Odd about the shuffled playback seeming linear. I don't have much to do with that other than telling mpg123 to make the playback shuffled or random; what it does after that is due to mpg123's own code. It's possible there's a bug in my own code that's not making the calls as it should. I'll take a look at it.</STRONG>

If you want some code for track management email me.

[Sharky K.]

when you are browsing your list it would be cool if you could select the mp3 that will be next. just the selected file(s)

It would be much cooler if you could add a column with you can select the numbers that will follow in the selected order.

When do you think there will be a "live" search and columns with song name, artist etc...?

[[APi]TheMan]

One more thing I forgot to mention about Mu... The dock menu... Very slick This isn't too much of a request, but if the current trackname could be displayed in the dockmenu, that'd be just super Mkaaay?

I think Mu just took over iTunes for me

[yukon]

Really awesome!

Fitter, is there any way you could get altivec optimization in there? I can't see any difference with the equilizer yet. Also, TinyTunes's ability to keep a "library" and scan all folders in a selected folder is helpful. Very cool update!

IamBob, TinyTunes really looks like Mu now. Maybe use aqua type buttons, you know, the circles with arrows in them? Mu made it so that tinytunes sorta needs an equilizer now

I'm still noticing some wierd things in both where the wrong song plays. I dunno, I'll look for a patern

Both have beaten soundjam and iTunes for CPU usage, and almost beaten soundjam and iTunes for features. Forget about rip/burn, thats useless with toast - I wouldn't have either encode my mp3s for anything. Of course, adding a copy of LAME + a GUI to the package might change my mind on that feature . I don't dare ask for skins (useless?), and the "junk at the beginning" is a(n?) mpg123 problem.

Both of these two apps really rock now. They have no competition except from each other. A battle for "mac god" status ensues!

[fitter]

Originally posted by yukon:
<STRONG>Really awesome!

Fitter, is there any way you could get altivec optimization in there?
</STRONG>

Glad you like it. There were some issues due to silly mistakes I made. I think 0.3.0a corrects all of those.

Not likely, I'm afraid. I've never coded anything for AltiVec, for one, and don't own a G4, either. That makes it rather difficult, wouldn't you say? Really, though, Mu doesn't share any code with mpg123. It tells mpg123 to run, and sends messages to it based on user instructions in the GUI. For me to add altivec optimization, I would have to edit the mpg123 source. This might not be as bad as I expect, if I had the time, but I'm afraid this is something that'll have to go on the back burner for the time being.

<STRONG>
I can't see any difference with the equilizer yet.</STRONG>

It does indeed work. If you want to hand edit the equalizer, the file is called .MuEQ, found in your home directory. I'm limiting the ranges to 0.5 to 1.5 based on my own experience with distortion at levels above 1.5. (The mpg123 eq files have no documentation. The source just has a file called "equalize.dat" that I used as a reference. Lines toward the top are for bass; those toward the bottom are for treble. DO NOT LEAVE ANY LINES BLANK. If you want to add comments, use #s at the start of each lines.)

<STRONG>
Also, TinyTunes's ability to keep a "library" and scan all folders in a selected folder is helpful.</STRONG>

Yes, the library is nice. Mu will have one in the next release. It already is capable of scanning subdirectories. See the playlist section of the preferences.

<STRONG>
I'm still noticing some wierd things in both where the wrong song plays.</STRONG>

In Mu, it's probably related to the previous track action, which is really only accurate when playing linearly, at this point. I'm planning to handle the random/shuffled previous track, too, which should be as easy as setting up a variable and telling Mu to start playing the song contained in that variable.

<STRONG>Of course, adding a copy of LAME + a GUI to the package might change my mind on that feature . I don't dare ask for skins (useless?), and the "junk at the beginning" is a(n?) mpg123 problem.
</STRONG>

The GUI for LAME was precisely what Sharky was recommending. I'm definitely considering it. If you want to see what files have the "junk at the beginning" warning, open the log window. You can see mpg123's output there. I hope to have some more dynamic feedback in future versions.

<STRONG>They have no competition except from each other. A battle for "mac god" status ensues!</STRONG>

God forbid. Godhood is overrated, and besides, we're making two different approaches. Mine gets to take advantage of everything mpg123 has to offer, but his gets the optimizations John H�rnkvist wrote. Choose the one you feel most comfortable with.

[squiggy]

Originally posted by yukon:
<STRONG>Both have beaten soundjam and iTunes for CPU usage, and almost beaten soundjam and iTunes for features. Forget about rip/burn, thats useless with toast - I wouldn't have either encode my mp3s for anything. Of course, adding a copy of LAME + a GUI to the package might change my mind on that feature . I don't dare ask for skins (useless?), and the "junk at the beginning" is a(n?) mpg123 problem.
</STRONG>

The only thing I really like about iTunes is the browser layout. If you have a lot of mp3 files it becomes nearly indispensable. So while I'd love to switch to a player that was lighter on the CPU load, I can't really see using something else until it works at least as well when plowing through all my mp3 files.

[davecom]

You don't have to make your own GUI for Lame. Look at the source for MP3 Ripper. The author is very helpful too. What I want to do is integrate my CD Player with MP3 Ripper and somebody's MP3 player to make an entire package that's an alternative to iTunes (Although I really like iTunes none the less). When I say integrate, I mean keep separate applications, but let one send commands to another.

[[APi]TheMan]

fitter: I have this certain MP3 that plays at hyper speed on Mu .3.0a. It plays fine in iTunes... It's just a quirky thing, but it's very odd Only this song does it that I have noticed...

[yukon]

Thanks for the reply fitter! Looks like Mu is really going to be perfect soon.

Is there any way to seperate the altivec mpg123 from the framework? The original author seems to be responding to emails, so he might have the source seperate :-?. Wish I could help.

the "stuck on one song" and "wrong song" things must be because of mpg123, as it happens in both apps.


oh yeah, I've checked out the GUI apps for LAME, and they are kinda bad. It's not hard to use the CLI for it IMO, but most users don't want to do it. A window, a bunch of little menus/check boxes linked to switches on LAME, nothing much. Linked apps might keep Mu fast.

by the way IamBob and fitter, I just realized I have both open . thank you!

Grr, I forgot my pass. I hate not being at my computer. Oh, yeah, I am IamBob.

TinyTunes really looks like Mu now.

Very very sorry!

I accidently left Mu's icons in that last build (I think). I had been making sure the code worked with/without icons and just totally spaced stripping them out before I posted. I'll make some super-simple ones tomorrow.

I'm still noticing some wierd things in both where the wrong song plays.

Well, the playback problems in TT are probably my fault not mpg123's/mpegToasterKit's. The playlist management is kind of convoluted and crufty. No, not by design -- it kind of just happened. I should have some time to fix the most annoying issues in the next couple of days.

RE: EQ
TT probably won't have one anytime soon, if at all. I'd love to add one I just don't think it's possible since I'm using mpegToasterKit. If I can talk John into working on mpegToasterKit some more or get him to open source it...who knows. Anyway, it's not likely to happen.

[Sharky K.]

Originally posted by fitter:
<STRONG>If you want to hand edit the equalizer, the file is called .MuEQ, found in your home directory</STRONG>

Sorry, but I think it is wrong to create hidden files. Is it possible to do it in the pref file?

[Sharky K.]

btw, about those skins... Please put NO time in that. I dislike skins and the default OS "layout" is the best.

[fitter]

Originally posted by davecom:
<STRONG>...What I want to do is integrate my CD Player with MP3 Ripper and somebody's MP3 player to make an entire package that's an alternative to iTunes (Although I really like iTunes none the less). When I say integrate, I mean keep separate applications, but let one send commands to another.</STRONG>

This does sound like a good idea. I assume you meant NMP3 Ripper? We should discuss this integration. IamBob, do you want to comment?

[fitter]

Originally posted by [APi]TheMan:
<STRONG>fitter: I have this certain MP3 that plays at hyper speed on Mu .3.0a. It plays fine in iTunes... It's just a quirky thing, but it's very odd Only this song does it that I have noticed...</STRONG>

Yeah, I've got a couple of these myself. I'm not really sure what the cause of it is. It's mpg123's problem, not mine; but it might be an OS X-specific issue. I'm using the audio_macosx.c file created by the mosx-mpg123 project at sourceforge for the versions of mpg123 included with Mu. Both 0.59r and pre0.59s exhibit this behaviour. Does anyone have a Linux/*BSD box to test against?

You could try having iTunes decode it to AIFF, then reencoding the file, in the meantime.

[fitter]

Originally posted by Sharky K.:
<STRONG>

Sorry, but I think it is wrong to create hidden files. Is it possible to do it in the pref file?</STRONG>

No, not in the pref file. The EQ file must be unique, as the way mpg123 parses it is pretty basic. The dot files method is pretty standard on the variations of *nix out there, but I do understand what you mean. I've been considering putting it in ~/Library/Application Support/Mu. Seems reasonable to me.

...Mu will not support skins. Audion is lord and master of that domain.

[[APi]TheMan]

Originally posted by fitter:
<STRONG>
Yeah, I've got a couple of these myself. I'm not really sure what the cause of it is. It's mpg123's problem, not mine; but it might be an OS X-specific issue. I'm using the audio_macosx.c file created by the mosx-mpg123 project at sourceforge for the versions of mpg123 included with Mu. Both 0.59r and pre0.59s exhibit this behaviour. Does anyone have a Linux/*BSD box to test against?</STRONG>

Understood. It's not a big deal at all to me I was just trying to be helpful

[davecom]

Originally posted by fitter:
<STRONG>

This does sound like a good idea. I assume you meant NMP3 Ripper? We should discuss this integration. IamBob, do you want to comment?</STRONG>

I've been talking by email with author of NMP3 Ripper.

I quote
"I'd be up for integrating stuff, so long as the time presents itself. Let me know when the time is right, and I'll see what I can do."

So if we could get an MP3 player on board as well, that would be great.

[crazyjohnson]

That used to happen in mpegToaster, John fixed the bug. After a system beep, the speed can get ****ed. Yet another reason to use mpegToaster framework .

John talks about the fix somewhere. Its documented.

Originally posted by [APi]TheMan:
<STRONG>fitter: I have this certain MP3 that plays at hyper speed on Mu .3.0a. It plays fine in iTunes... It's just a quirky thing, but it's very odd Only this song does it that I have noticed...</STRONG>

[fitter]

Found the root of doublespeed playback problem. Nothing to do with "system beeps" (where'd you get that idea?). The version of mpg123 I'm using was compiled with the audio_macosx.c file from the mosx-mpg123 project at sourceforge (as are all standalone versions of mpg123 on OS X). One of the known bugs is this:

"Currently audio_macosx.c only supports a 44.1 kHz sample rate on the output. This makes 22 kHz files play double speed, of course."

The kludgy workaround is to export these files to .wav, then reencode them using a 44.1 kHz sample rate. You can do this with mpg123, or with another player. With mpg123, do this: <font face = "courier">mpg123 --wav newwav.wav tracktodecode.mp3</font>

And no, Mr. Johnson, I'm not going to use mpegToasterKit: it doesn't support equalizers, doesn't know how to handle http requests, can't decode a file to .wav, doesn't know how to reduce volume, and unless H�rnkvist opensources the kit, it will never be able to do any of those things.

[[APi]TheMan]

Originally posted by fitter:
<STRONG>The kludgy workaround is to export these files to .wav, then reencode them using a 44.1 kHz sample rate. You can do this with mpg123, or with another player. With mpg123, do this: &lt;font face = "courier"&gt;mpg123 --wav newwav.wav tracktodecode.mp3&lt;/font&gt;</STRONG>

That's definitely a hassle. But I'll manage.. It's only one song. Thanks for the workaround, it's nice to know that we have cornered the problem.

[yukon]

aww, frunk. private messages don't work, smtp error apparently (?).

Mu stopped playing mp3s. deleting prefs cleared that up, but I'll post the prefs contents.

&lt;!DOCTYPE plist SYSTEM "I Like Ike"&gt;
LpWhile X=X
Lbl 1
&lt;dict&gt;
&lt;key&gt;Set Mu&lt;/key&gt;
&lt;integer&gt;0&lt;/integer&gt;
&lt;/dict&gt;
Goto 1
EndWhile
&lt;/plist&gt;

what could be wrong...
thanks fitter

[ 04-11-2002: Message edited by: yukon ]

[fitter]

Originally posted by yukon:
<STRONG>aww, frunk. private messages don't work, smtp error apparently (?). Sorry fellow posters!

Mu stopped playing mp3s. deleting prefs cleared that up, but I'll post the prefs contents. I'll edit it out when you reply (its a little long).

</STRONG>

OK, the problem (I should have anticipated it) was that I changed the default version to pre0.59s, meaning that your prefs, which had been using pre0.59s to begin with, were suddenly telling Mu to run 0.59r. It seems that the 0.59r binary I included got corrupted somehow; it just crashes when you try to run it. I'll recompile and post another release soon. In the meantime, use pre0.59s. Sorry about that.

[yukon]

thanks fitter. Mu works fine now, but now it's tinytunes

It always playes the first mp3, then when I choose another, it gets stuck on it with no audio, and refuses to change songs. Once, it started playing one song twice at the same time, and starting the beginning over again after every 3seconds or so. clearing prefs stopped that, but tinytunes still gets stuck. the console says-

:date: :time: TinyTunes[PID] song started
Trouble; couldn't start audio stream

It repeats the trouble line when a new mp3 is selected. so my guess is that it's a problem with mpg123, and tinytunes handles the error incorrectly, waiting for a "end of song" message or something.

the "repeating 3s of song" thing's pref file, minus the library song list, was-

&lt;?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?&gt;
&lt;!DOCTYPE plist SYSTEM "file://localhost/System/Library/DTDs/PropertyList.dtd"&gt;
&lt;plist version="0.9"&gt;
&lt;dict&gt;
&lt;key&gt;Library&lt;/key&gt;
&lt;key&gt;NSDefaultOpenDirectory&lt;/key&gt;
&lt;string&gt;/Volumes/Macintosh HD/Documents/Multimedia/MP3 Files&lt;/string&gt;
&lt;key&gt;NSWindow Frame TinyTunes&lt;/key&gt;
&lt;string&gt;849 473 332 215 0 0 1280 1002 &lt;/string&gt;
&lt;/dict&gt;
&lt;/plist&gt;

hope that helps. thanks

[IamBob]

Sorry, posting the prefs file is usually a good idea but this time it doesn't help.

The only thing TinyTunes (actively) stores in the prefs is; drawer edge, the library and locations to any playlists you've opened or created. None of those things effect playback.

I think the problem you're having is with mpegToaster (based on the console output). Try re-encoding the song it breaks on. Other playback problems should be fixed next release.

No update this time. I've been busier than I thought I'd be and have little free-time that I want to spend working. I'm putting in an hour or so a day but that doesn't buy much since I'm re-writing a lot of stuff.

I should have something to post in a couple days.

later

[yukon]

It was breaking on many songs, ones that Mu played (?). I'd reencode, but that lowers quality, and I'll redownload them soon. I'd reencode to ogg if I was going to reencode though. Just don't have the drive space for the cd quality mp3s, at least for a few more weeks.

thanks for your help

[IamBob]

Hmm...

Have you tried playing the problem songs in mpegToaster?