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You are here: MacNN Forums > Hardware - Troubleshooting and Discussion > Consumer Hardware & Components > Weird issues with Airport Time Capsule

Weird issues with Airport Time Capsule
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Walker
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Apr 9, 2015, 09:37 AM
 
I've been using the latest generation time capsule without issue for the last year. While I was traveling last weekend I realized I couldn't remotely log into my home computer. When I got home I realized that my internet connection wasn't working (both wired & wireless connections). I initially thought it was the ISP's modem and restarted it. It seemed to fix it.. However I lost the connection again so the next day I replaced my 5 year old modem a new modem from the ISP. Unfortunately I continued to have the same symptoms. However I also noticed that if I logged into my Time Capsule and restarted it I would fix the problem. I came to understand that the loss of internet happens after a long period of non-usage. For example, the internet would be working fine when I go to bed at night but it would be not working in the morning. I would restart in the morning and it'd function fine all morning but would not be functioning when I got home from work. It seems to continue functioning well as long as I'm using it. Finally, in an attempt to rule out all possibilities, I replaced the cable between the modem and time capsule. To my surprise this fixed it. However once again returning home from work at the end of the day I had no internet connection. This time I simply unplugged the network cable and plugged it back in. Bam the internet comes back on immediately.

So I'm thinking I've got a defective 3 TB time capsule. But that night my daughter calls me and tells me that she's having virtually identical internet connection problems. She lives about a mile from me. Same ISP and she also has a Time Capsule. Both of our time capsules are running latest firmware.

I called my ISP (Midcontinent Communications) tech support and told him of the issues we are having. He told me that he was unaware of any issues with the internet service itself. He spent a good amount of time trying to figure out possible causes but ultimately suggested I contact Apple.

In a nutshell:

-Setup is ISP Modem -->Airport Time Capsule--->direct ethernet connection to tower, ethernet to switch, wireless network.
-After a long period of no one using the internet, I lose the internet connection.
-If I continue using the internet connection, it stays on- no drops.
-The network itself is fine. I can airplay to different speakers and see all my other devices.
-unplugging network cable between modem and time capsule and immediately replugging back in fixes problem
-I have replaced modem with brand new modem. Symptoms persist
-daughter who lives 1 mile away, same ISP, Same time capsule, is having same issues and same fix. Provider claims no other customers have issues.
-everything was working fine for over a year until last weekend.
- one other strange tidbit of information. It seems like I'm still getting notifications on iPad and iPhone during the periods of time I think the internet is down. I could be wrong about this but when I wake up in the morning and look at my iPhone it appears to have gotten notifications throughout the night.

Thanks in advance for the help. This problem is starting to get a little old.
     
ibook_steve
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Apr 9, 2015, 05:27 PM
 
Just because the ISP doesn't see anything from their side doesn't mean they shouldn't come out and do a line test from your side. I've never heard of your ISP, so I'm assuming DSL. The fact your daughter is seeing the same thing could just be a coincidence or that there is a problem in the area that the ISP doesn't know about.

When this happens, do the lights on your modem change indicating a connection issue? When this happens, can you try a hard ethernet connection between the modem and a computer, bypassing the TC, to see if you still have internet? Does Airport Utility indicate any issue with the Internet connection when this happens (assuming wifi to the TC still works when it happens)?

There's a few things you can try. I wouldn't pin it on the TC just yet.

Steve
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Mike Wuerthele
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Apr 9, 2015, 05:42 PM
 
The internet is coming back on disconnect and reconnect as you're forcing a new DHCP lease from the ISP - this is why maintaining a connection all day keeps the connection live. For some reason, when you're not using data, the ISP is forgetting your connection with it.

I second iBook_steve here. I don't think that this is the airport. There are two common points - the model of Time Capsule, and the ISP. Having both Time Capsules fail in the same manner seems bogus.
     
Walker  (op)
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Apr 9, 2015, 07:31 PM
 
Thanks for the responses guys. You may be right about it not being the TC. I just got off the phone with Apple support and the technician believes it is a DNS issue. He had me type in some ip addresses into my Browser and I was actually able to load those pages. So he had me log into my TC and change the DNS numbers in the Internet section. He's pretty confident this will fix it but told me to wait until the morning before I call up my ISP and tell them they've got some DNS issues going on.
     
ibook_steve
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Apr 13, 2015, 04:23 AM
 
I didn't think of the DNS. That's a good call by Apple. You can always try the Google name servers, very reliable: 8.8.8.8 and 8.8.4.4.

Steve
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Walker  (op)
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Apr 13, 2015, 06:38 AM
 
Spot on Steve. Those are the DNS numbers he gave me. Internet now works like a champ. When I called my ISP and told the tech support about the fix he did confess that they'd made some "upgrades" to our service right when I started having problems. Apple support did recommend that I don't keep using the Google DNS numbers forever. I think just because Google reads everything?
     
yocase007
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Apr 15, 2015, 11:26 AM
 
I read through the initial issue and am having the exact same issue (same provider, in Aberdeen, SD). Midcontinent Communications is a cable internet company, and I have a new Airport TimeCapsule running the latest firmware. I also tried replacing the modem to no avail and just unplugging and replugging the ethernet cable fixes the issue temporarily (until the internet is idle for a particular time). So, where did you input the Google DNS numbers and, since this is also a temporary fix, what is the long term solution? Is it a problem with the provider (and if I call to tell them what do I say?). The tech called me again yesterday and has found another person in town with the same problem (Airport Express, but same issue). If this is only happening to people with Airports doesn't it make more sense that it's some compatibility issue? Thoughts?

Thanks for the reply!
     
Walker  (op)
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Apr 15, 2015, 04:36 PM
 
I'm doing this from memory so I could be wrong. After I did this my internet is working perfectly.

Basically just log into your time capsule using the Airport Utility app on your mac or iPad or iPhone. Get to the Internet section and you should find a place for DNS numbers. I believe Midco's numbers are 24.220.0.10 and 24.220.0.11 You should replace each of these numbers with Google's DNS numbers. They are 8.8.8.8 and 8.8.4.4 Hit the apply button and it should restart your Time capsule and you're good to go.

This can be a permanent fix. According to the Apple tech, however, he said Google likes to look at what you are doing on the internet so with those Google DNS numbers you are basically telling them to look at everything with your permission. However I'm guessing Midco does similar things.

The Apple tech claimed it was not an Apple issue and the Midco tech claimed it wasn't a Midco issue. Clearly there is something going wrong somewhere. The last time I talked to a Midco Tech he did admit that they did some "upgrades" to their system right at the moment we started having problems.
     
yocase007
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Apr 15, 2015, 04:47 PM
 
I will change the DNS settings tonight. The same Midco tech is in constant contact with me in regards to the issue. The other client in town hardwired their mac directly into the modem and has yet to lose internet connectivity. I feel like this has to point to an issue with how the TimeCapsule is drawing down the DHCP license considering only those of us with Apple routers are affected. It is also curious as to why it just happened now and has not been an ongoing issue. I'll keep sleuthing but in the meantime will try the Google #'s. If I come up with the answer I will post it here.

Thanks for the help!
     
yocase007
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Apr 16, 2015, 06:33 PM
 
After changing my DNS settings to point to Google I have not had any issues with my internet dropping. I also relayed this to the Midco tech and he is looking into why this problem is happening in the first place. Will update when I know more.
     
yodink
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Jul 15, 2015, 01:09 AM
 
I am a MidContinent Communications customer in Sioux Falls, SD and I am experiencing the identical problem that "Walker" originally opened this thread with. I'm really glad to hear that other Midco customers are having this issue, because I have concluded that the ISP is at fault.

My ISP service with Midco was absolutely flawless for years, then probably in Spring 2015 I began to experience these random Internet outages described by Walker.
I have been struggling to identify the cause of this issue for months. I have troubleshooted with Apple and Midco support for dozens of hours.

None of the following have resolved the random ISP connectivity outages:
-I have the Apple Time Capsule (802.11ac) model ME177LL/A
-I had Apple replace the Time Capsule with a brand new one under warranty. (The new one arrived sealed in a cellophane package..its not refurbished).
-The ISP sold me a new $100 cable modem
-I replaced all involved Cat5e ethernet cables with new ones

What's happening with me is that my Apple TC's WAN connection goes dormant. In the AirPort Utility on my iMac the "Internet" LED turns from green to amber, indicating the TC has lost WAN connectivity.

When the problem is occurring, there are no local WiFi issues. All wireless devices remain connected, which I verified by pinging their local gateway (the Apple TC), and furthermore a traceroute from the wireless devices to a public IP confirms that the hop timing out is located immediately upstream of the Apple TC, ...the WAN DHCP gateway.

Any action that results in the Apple TC doing a DHCP renewal seems to fix the connectivity problem, whether that means rebooting the cable modem or rebooting the Apple TC. Sometimes clicking the "Renew DHCP Lease" on the Internet tab of the Airport Utility fixes the issue, but its not consistent..a reboot of the cable modem or the TC is required. It could be a WAN interface DHCP timeout, and then specifically a issue with Apple TCs not correctly performing a DHCP renew. The only hope might be to ask Apple Support how to view debug/advanced logging on the TC to try and get some clues.

After reading this thread, it does not make sense that assigning static DNS on the WAN interface could fix this issue, but I will certainly give it a try.
Why would my traceroute have timed out?? I guess I must have used a hostname (instead of IP) when I ran the traceroute...only thing I can think of.

The next time the problem occurs for me, I am going to try browsing to a public website via IP address, and if we have a DNS resolution issue, then indeed this must be and issue with the ISP's DNS resolution.

Yocase007 and Walker, I'm really curious if the static DNS assignment has permanently resolved your issues after some months of time have passed?
     
Walker  (op)
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Jul 15, 2015, 09:48 AM
 
It has worked flawlessly since I changed the DNS numbers in the Time Capsule.

There is an interesting side effect. Ever since I changed the DNS numbers in the time capsule, the Netflix app on my Apple TV takes a long time to load movies/TV shows. I didn't really try to troubleshoot this because I have the Netflix app on my Vizio HDTV so I've just been using that and it works perfectly. However last week I decided to change the DNS numbers on the time capsule back to the default Midco numbers just to see if they've fixed it on their end. The answer is the have not. I experienced the exact same issue I'd been having before (losing internet connectivity after idle periods of time.) However the netflix worked perfectly when with the Midco DNS numbers.

Another note. I've had Midco since they arrived in Vermillion probably around a decade ago. They've been fantastic to work it. Their technicians are awesome. I've been very happy with them for both TV and internet....until now. I own a computer store here in Vermillion and we provide tech support to our customers. Despite numerous phone calls from me explaining this problem and how we are managing it, they have decided this isn't a big enough problem worth their time. That's a direct quote from their online tech support. Even after I explained my job and how we've encountered numerous people suffering from this issue. Their attention to this problem has been nothing short of dreadful, and for the first time I've considered switching to a much slower ISP just because I'm so disappointed in their response.
     
Mike Wuerthele
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Jul 15, 2015, 10:10 AM
 
Thanks for the update on this, Walker!
     
yodink
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Jul 16, 2015, 01:31 AM
 
Walker thanks for the additional information.

I'm still waiting for one of these "outages" to occur to test whether my problem is indeed a DNS resolution problem like yours, and if so, I will change the Apple TC's DNS servers to something other than Midco's default ones.

Just for fun, I did briefly switch the DNS servers on the Apple TC to 8.8.8.8 and 8.8.4.4, to see if I could also replicate your slow Apple TV issue. I could not, and everything on the Apple TV continued to work fine.
You could try using some different public DNS servers other than Google and see if that would fix it: Free and Public DNS Server List (Updated July 2015).
If it does, it must be the Apple TV. Since the Visio is not affected when you're using Google's DNS server, something on the Apple TV is causing slow DNS resolution or doing something which affects the content delivery performance.
-I would factory reset the Apple TV and see if that makes a difference.
-There was a bad batch of Gen 3 Apple TVs that had Wifi defects. My first one I bought had constant issues until I found out about the 2013 recall, and they replaced it.
Is yours on the list, call Apple and say you bought it within the last 2 years and they should replace it. Apple will replace faulty Apple TVs for free - CNET

Its disappointing that Midco has such a crappy response to this customer dilemma, they've never hesitated to raise their prices annually and have price gouged the Sioux Falls area at least for the last 20 years.
With the store customer base it sounds like you have, a couple of BBB complaints would probably get Midco management's attention to this problem.
( Last edited by yodink; Jul 16, 2015 at 01:48 AM. )
     
ghporter
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Aug 1, 2015, 01:19 PM
 
Yodink, the "outages" may not be noticeable. One of the ISP "dirty little secrets" is that they frequently update DNS settings, which means their DNS servers are often offline. Usually it's not more than one at a time, but sometimes it can be. When this happens, if they're a Big Name, the outage is so short that most people don't even notice it. If they're not so big, it can take a while for their servers to come back up. Sometimes it can take a day or two...

Worse, unless they paid close attention, the DNS servers their DHCP (or DHCP-like) setups provide may not be updated ones. That means that there's no way customers who don't manually set up their DNS server settings will not connect, at all!

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
yodink
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Aug 5, 2015, 07:26 PM
 
My "outages" are definitely noticeable...meaning that I lose all Internet connectivity until I act.

These outages have occurred again several times for me the last few weeks, and the problem is indeed a DNS resolution problem as stated by the other posters.
When the issue is occurring, there is no response from Midco's DNS servers of 24.220.0.10, 24.220.0.11, but I can ping public IPs and also browse websites using their public IP address.
As soon as I change the Apple TC's DNS servers to something other than Midco's default, everything starts working again.
     
ghporter
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Aug 5, 2015, 09:06 PM
 
What I meant was that after changing over to Google's (or someone else's) DNS servers, you'll probably never see the issue again. Which seems to be the case. As irregular as the ISP's DNS servers seem to be, I'd stick with the alternate DNS servers.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
   
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