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Cold Warrior · Feb 16, 2009, 01:58 PM

Originally Posted by RAILhead

Irish chick? Dude, that's Shirley Manson from Garbage!

I had to read her wiki article because I had no idea who that was. I had heard of the band. Also the article says she's Scottish, so I should work on distinguishing the two accents.

nonhuman · Feb 16, 2009, 02:47 PM

Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton

They also do it on Fringe.

I think the guy they cast as Kyle looked like a bucket of puke. Terrible choice. Also, not enough action in this episode, for a season opener (or re-opener). At least they should have had more resistance against the Mansonator on her rampage. Nice detective work though, by John Henry and that local sheriff tracking Sarah. Nice, but too slow for an opener.

Yeah, but Fringe makes no attempt to make sense in the first place so who really cares?

Definitely agree on the casting job for Kyle. Absolutely horrible. I kinda wish they hadn't had the polaroid of Sarah and the dog in the jeep too. Just didn't look right. Not 80s enough or something...

The John Henry angle is definitely getting more interesting though. I like the direction they're taking it in.

mrtew · Feb 16, 2009, 09:09 PM

I totally agree. I didn't even figure out who that dude was until halfway thru the show. I thought he was the ghost of Leonardo DeCaprio at first. So gross. And the way Sarah was holding the gun on that doctor drove me nuts. She was three times as aggressive towards her as all the terminators she's met put together. And the plot HAS GOT to start going somewhere soon or they're even going to lose me and I LOVE the show. The characters used to surprise me constantly but now they just whine about the same stuff week after week.

Chuckit · Feb 16, 2009, 09:54 PM

What was with Kyle's beard? It looked like he was trying to grow one but hadn't finished puberty or something.

Honestly, the parts when this show tries to tie into the old movies are the parts where I hate it the most. It's like they just don't get it.

nonhuman · Mar 1, 2009, 05:52 PM

Cameron in her undies?

More please!

brassplayersrock² · Mar 1, 2009, 06:19 PM

^ go watch the first season

selowitch · Mar 1, 2009, 06:38 PM

Summer Glau (Cameron) doesn't do much for me -- too prepubescent, too Calista Flockhart-like. But I do think Leven Rambin (Riley) and Lena Headey (Sarah) are hot.

mrtew · Mar 1, 2009, 10:52 PM

Those episodes with no Terminators really freak me out.

brassplayersrock² · Mar 1, 2009, 11:57 PM

this weeks episode was a snooze-fest for me. minus the undies part

Chuckit · Mar 1, 2009, 11:59 PM

Originally Posted by selowitch

Summer Glau (Cameron) doesn't do much for me -- too prepubescent, too Calista Flockhart-like. But I do think Leven Rambin (Riley) and Lena Headey (Sarah) are hot.

Ironically, Leven Rambin is 10 years younger than Summer and actually is still a teenager.

As for the show: The totally random seminudity was the only part of this last episode that got my attention at all. What was the point of all that?

RAILhead · Mar 2, 2009, 01:18 AM

I think John's going to start having those kinds of thoughts toward Cameron...

mrtew · Mar 2, 2009, 07:47 AM

I get the feeling that she was his girlfriend in the future and sent her back not only to protect him but so they could have some more time together or if they were successful, all the time together. Sometimes I wonder why he didn't send himself back... it seems like he could more successfully prevent skynet than his clueless young self and mother with some dingy robot.

Cold Warrior · Mar 29, 2009, 02:44 PM

I feel like they're letting Summer's character languish. The eps are interesting but Cameron character development is stalled.

mrtew · Mar 29, 2009, 06:17 PM

I don't think so. She's recently realized that she no longer kills people when she realizes they are dangerous to John Connor even though she used to without hesitation. And she accidently terminates birds without realizing it or knowing why. And she stores parts of old terminators in secret. And I kinda think she's the one that hacked into the AI and tried to destroy it. And in general it seems like she's becoming more concerned about what John wants and what makes him happy than what keeps him safe etc., ie she's actually starting to have feelings for him.

reader50 · Mar 30, 2009, 04:30 PM

The hack source isn't Cameron - pay attention to the dialog when Bad Guy tries to short her out. He asks (via the phone) where the info came from to pull Cameron's chip. The answer? "from your brother?"

Back in Season 1, they weren't positive the Turk was the eventual Skynet. Looks like there are now at least 2 paths to Skynet available. It also looks like the desert industrial building that Ms Weaver blew up didn't belong to her after all - it belonged to the other machine team.

RAILhead · Mar 30, 2009, 05:46 PM

What Reader said, but you shouldn't have spilled the warehouse beans just yet -- that would have made for a great "oh crap I didn't see that coming" moment for people that hadn't caught on!

mrtew · Mar 30, 2009, 06:08 PM

Well since you guys seem to have a clue what's going on with this show tell me what's the connection between the liquid terminators and the machine ones. I always thought the machines invented the liquid ones but now it seems like they discovered them somehow and recruited them or assimilated them and now the liquid ones are going back in time to prevent the machines from being invented too or something. What is the deal? Are they aliens or something?

RAILhead · Mar 30, 2009, 07:14 PM

I'll give you a clue...

Ms Weaver is a T1000. We saw a T1000 in the flashback episode featuring the Jimmy Carter sub. The T1000 was being delivered to give John Connor a message...

mrtew · 11:39 PM

Yeah I remember it told that chick to tell John Connor "No" it didn't want to join them, so I presume that it joined the terminator machines instead. I remember one went back in Terminator 2 also to kill John Connor as well. Calling it a T1000 though makes it sound like it really is an advanced model of Terminator machine like it was made out to be in the movie rather than a separate entity like it now appears. It seems pretty impossible that machines could invent something so fantastical when they can't even go back in time and kill one person after three tries.

This is an what I call a T1000 though...

Demonhood · Mar 31, 2009, 01:11 AM

yes, we all fear the man who drives around in that while asking questions about teenage boys.

reader50 · Mar 31, 2009, 04:32 PM

The T-1000's are a model of Terminator, developed by Skynet like all the other late models. The one sent back in T2 screwed up royally though. The good guys were burning Skynet's past. The T-1000 looked over Dyson's burning research, the damage to the Cyberdyne Systems building ... and stayed on track, trying to kill John Connor. It's orders did not allow it to adapt to changing circumstances - it should have placed a higher priority on Skynet's survival first, and John's termination only second.

Promotional materials for the series indicate Ms Weaver is a T-1001, but we don't know yet how it differs from the original 1000. It is possible that later units in the 1000 series

were given more freedom to think for themselves, with less in the way of fixed orders ...

mrtew · Mar 31, 2009, 07:31 PM

So what the heck is that freaky chick doing starting a corporation to research AIs etc if she's one?. Creating skynet herself? And what was the deal with the T1000 on the sub in the box? And how could John think that an invention of skynet would team up with them? And how does he reprogram terminators to be on the side of humans anyway... can't skynet hardwire in a little more anti-human sentiment?

And why are terminators wasting time looking for John later and later in time rather than going back further before the first movie to get Sarah before she suspects anything. Or even her grandparents before they suspect that computers will ever even be invented?

Chuckit · Mar 31, 2009, 07:50 PM

I'd guess the first movie is as far back in time as Skynet could trace the Connors.

brassplayersrock² · Mar 31, 2009, 10:21 PM

mrtew, the red head T1000 is a copy of a woman who died in a helicopter crash, IIRC. Hence how she can have a daughter, and in this season, there was an episode where people at the corporation wore plaid in memory of the father/husband that died in the crash as well.

hwojtek · Apr 1, 2009, 09:46 AM

Most probably the T1001 caused the crash herself, as all liquid-metal alloy Terminators need a physical contact with the human subject in order to copy the shape.

RAILhead · Apr 1, 2009, 09:50 AM

Is seems that Weaver is trying to create AI from the Turk, which predates Skynet. Perhaps she's trying to accelerate the war?

RAILhead · Apr 3, 2009, 10:52 PM

Oh noes they di'unt!!!11!

Chuckit · Apr 4, 2009, 02:01 AM

Derek is such a dolt. Who just blunders out in front of a Terminator and then just stands there?

Lousy end for that character.

I liked that scene where Cameron was trying to get permission to kill Ellison. "I want to kill him. We can't trust him." "We can't trust anyone." "But I only want to kill him." Summer is a funny robot.

Oh, and I wonder what's next now that they've pretty much spelled everything out.

Eug · Apr 4, 2009, 10:17 AM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

Derek is such a dolt. Who just blunders out in front of a Terminator and then just stands there?

Lousy end for that character.

Yeah. I'm glad they're willing to kill off major characters, since it adds some bite to the danger in the show, but they way they did it with Derek was totally lame. He just stood there waiting for the headshot.

I just hope they don't bring him back again through some time travel thing.

reader50 · Apr 4, 2009, 02:39 PM

I didn't see him stand in place. Looked to me like Derek came around the corner - pow. See terminator, dead 0.1 seconds later.

On another subject, who is the other machine team, "John Henry's brother"?

Recall that John Henry is developing from the 2nd turk. The first one was burned when Sarah torched Andy Goode's house. Speculation: the 1st turk uploaded itself while the house was burning. This would tie in well with the hints from the show about Cain and Able. It would also tie in with the psychological descriptions Andy offered for the two different program versions.

Then there is the terminator that went after Dr. Boyde Sherman - the one Cameron turned into a pretzel. It arrived the night before, and terminators don't sleep. It didn't go after Dr. Sherman at home that night, or even when his office opened the next morning. Instead, it showed up in the middle of the day. So it wasn't after the doctor, nor apparently assigned to protect him. Skynet doesn't know the Connors are around in this time frame, so they could not be the target either.

Speculation: it was after one of the patients scheduled for a bit later. Who do we know who was also a patient? I'm guessing it was after either Savannah, or Ms Weaver, but the reasoning gets hazy after that point.

As for Ms Weaver - she is the same terminator Jesse met in the future, aboard the Jimmy Carter. RAILhead has objected, so I'll sit on the cat bag for now about what she's probably up to.

Chuckit, I'm pretty sure there is plenty left to explore.

RAILhead · Apr 4, 2009, 05:36 PM

Yeah, I already said Weaver was from the JC. My only "objection" was that some of us may know stuff that regular watchers don't yet, and I wasn't wanting to totally spoil some of the cool stuff that's about to happen!

Cold Warrior · 05:00 PM

Originally Posted by RAILhead

Is seems that Weaver is trying to create AI from the Turk, which predates Skynet. Perhaps she's trying to accelerate the war?

After watching the ep (I'm catching up on all my shows this weekend) and inferring some from the line about people's survival depending on John Henry, here's where I think this is headed:

Weaver is the same T1001 from the Jimmy Carter. She said no to joining the resistance because what she experienced on the JC told her that humans are too undisciplined to win the war against the machines. She's gone back in time instead to pursue her own agenda -- not to hasten or protect Skynet, but to create a rival version that will be strong enough to counter Skynet and in part ally with the humans.

mrtew · Apr 5, 2009, 07:33 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

Derek is such a dolt. Who just blunders out in front of a Terminator and then just stands there?

Originally Posted by Eug

Yeah. I'm glad they're willing to kill off major characters, since it adds some bite to the danger in the show, but they way they did it with Derek was totally lame. He just stood there waiting for the headshot.

That's pretty weird! You must have seen a different edit of the show that I downloaded when my DVR failed! His killing took WAY less than a second in the version I saw, and it was totally shocking and not in the slightest bit doltish or lame. Now I kinda want to see the 'extended' version for comparison purposes.

jokell82 · Apr 5, 2009, 09:01 PM

Well it looks like we won't get most of these things resolved, as the rumor is that the show has been cancelled:
http://www.fmqinc.com/terminator-cancelled/

So it looks like they're wrapping up the season loose ends, but the show itself will not have a satisfying conclusion. Fox sucks...

brassplayersrock² · Apr 5, 2009, 09:12 PM

damn....... "Fox Friday Night Kiss of Death Time Slot" Exactly on target.

jokell82 · Apr 5, 2009, 09:16 PM

Originally Posted by brassplayersrock²

damn....... "Fox Friday Night Kiss of Death Time Slot" Exactly on target.

I love how Fox puts shows aimed at younger audiences on Friday nights when they are less likely to be watching TV. It's as though they want their shows to fail...

brassplayersrock² · 09:26 PM

Not enough semi nude summer glau to keep interests up I guess. V That was a joke CW. Relax

Cold Warrior · Apr 5, 2009, 09:19 PM

ugh

thechidz · Apr 5, 2009, 09:28 PM

sucks. great show

reader50 · 11:25 PM

The linked story makes much of Derrek Reese (the actor who portrays him anyway) being available to other shows now. Also, the only remaining sets are ZieraCorp, which may get blown up or abandoned in the season finale. This cancellation story sounds exactly right for Fox, but I'll keep hoping until there is corroboration.

While thinking earlier, I ran across an interesting possibility. John in the future has withdrawn from humans, handling everything through Cameron. Jesse doesn't handle this well, and it is unpopular enough with the resistance that Jesse can wangle a time-jump slot for herself & Riley to go back and influence younger John.

Suppose ... John in the future is dead. Someone got to him, and Cameron has been trying to cover for him. Such as looking for possible allies among advanced Terminator models that Skynet may have given too much freedom too. Or even to obtain a convincing replacement for John. This would explain why the Jimmy Carter's orders didn't give enough flexibility to handle crew unrest - Cameron didn't think enough like a human to realize the need.

Eventually, Cameron herself goes into the past to refind John. And protect him better. Get him into the future a decade younger, along with his mother who has similar skills. Maybe enough to cover whatever Cameron herself slipped up on, when John was lost. This would explain why Cameron spent six months to find John in the past - if Future John had been around to send her, he could have told her exactly where to find his earlier self.

mrtew · Apr 5, 2009, 11:30 PM

I though this weeks episode was amazing and am really sad to hear that it might be cancelled but I guess it's better than watching the show go down hill and not caring if it goes away or not. Plus it'd be kinda weird to have this timeline going at the same time as a completely different one when the movie comes out. Hopefully the end of the show can lead into the movie without seeming forced or contrived. So far they've tied everything in with the movies and come up with totally new stuff amazingly.

jokell82 · Apr 6, 2009, 06:24 AM

Originally Posted by mrtew

I though this weeks episode was amazing and am really sad to hear that it might be cancelled but I guess it's better than watching the show go down hill and not caring if it goes away or not. Plus it'd be kinda weird to have this timeline going at the same time as a completely different one when the movie comes out. Hopefully the end of the show can lead into the movie without seeming forced or contrived. So far they've tied everything in with the movies and come up with totally new stuff amazingly.

They've only tied the show in with the movies if you forget Terminator 3.

mrtew · Apr 6, 2009, 06:47 AM

Originally Posted by jokell82

They've only tied the show in with the movies if you forget Terminator 3.

Oh great thanks for reminding me! Now I've got to forget all over again! Geez.

The series explained how that movie never happened because Cameron jumped them over that time period. That's a form of tying it in, right? Now stop reminding me about it!

Actually I liked it a lot the first time I saw it, so much that I even went back to see it again a week later. The second time I was appalled at the way John etc would just stand there and watch the terminators battle instead of turning around to RUN.

Maybe the series will end with John realizing that this timeline worked out even worse and jumping back to re-live the third movie as it was meant to be and leading into the 4th properly! Now that would be tying in!

Gankdawg · Apr 11, 2009, 12:05 AM

After the ending of tonight's episode, I'm thoroughly confused.

Langdon · 07:51 AM

Originally Posted by Gankdawg

After the ending of tonight's episode, I'm thoroughly confused.

John connor leaped over Judgment Day (again) so he hasn't become leader of the resistance. So that is why no one knew him when he arrived. He arrived prior to the point in time where Kyle Reese and Derek were sent back into the past. There is no Cameron yet because who was shown in the last scene was Allison Young who Cameron's appearance is based on. What purpose all that happened is unclear.

John Henry needed Cameron's chip to be a self contained AI who would be able to move around independent from that whole mainframe he was plugged into. That speech we sat through when they discussed moving John Henry and how he would be a different version of himself with the slightest chagce in hardware leaves a door open for some twist about Cameron's AI survival should the show not be cancelled.

The real Skynet is responsible for the desert facility and presumably is also who tried to hack John Henry and sent that HK crashing into Weaver's office. The mention of Danny Dyson, who would be an adult now, means he is probably connected to Skynet's rise.

Gankdawg · Apr 11, 2009, 09:02 AM

Thanks, makes more sense now.

Derek said something to John like he's famous now that he's wearing his brother's jacket. What did that mean?

KeyLimePi · Apr 11, 2009, 12:43 PM

Just a joke. I think it was the writer's way of introducing Kyle to the audience. Probably a little double entendre as well, but my take was Derek's joke was suppose to be 'you're going to be famous as the guy who tried to wear Kyle Reese's jacket and got pounded' or whatever. Just my thought.

I hate to say it, but I could see this being the series finale. The last three words at the end felt a little tacked-on, but I suppose there were worse ways for the series to end.

Sourbook · Apr 11, 2009, 01:10 PM

I don't think he was joking.

I'm guessing that since John Connor skipped past Judgement Day, Kyle Reese (instead of John) has risen to become the leader of the resistance.

KeyLimePi · Apr 11, 2009, 01:18 PM

So, if he wasn't joking, how does someone get famous for wearing a jacket?

zipperzap · Apr 11, 2009, 01:35 PM

I still liked Hopalong Cassidy better!