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Thoughts on a Linux mini-notebook PC? ...
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cmeisenzahl
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Jul 24, 2008, 01:08 PM
 
I really like the idea of a small very portable notebook that is cheap, runs some flavor of linux, has USB ports, built-in wi-fi, and a screen resolution of at least 1024x600, ideally more. Maybe a screen around 9" or so? Definitely not a desktop replacement. Just email, OpenOffice, Google Docs, blogging, surfing, etc. ;-)

Anyway, I've had my eye on the Dell if/when available, as well as the Eee PC. What else is out there? Might it make sense to buy a low-end 'regular' notebook and just install Ubuntu on it myself?

Anyone here using anything at all like this? Very interested in your thoughts. Thanks!

p.s. I would LOVE a new MacBook, but just too much money right now, or so the wife says. ;-)

Misc. Links:
http://blog.laptopmag.com/msi-wind-r...hit-us-in-june
http://gizmodo.com/393815/exclusive-...st-mini-laptop
http://eeepc.asus.com/global/product.htm
     
nonhuman
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Jul 24, 2008, 01:23 PM
 
It's not quite the same thing, but I recently replaced my MacBook with a Lenovo ThinkPad T61. Basically I do a lot of work (coding, mostly) on the go, and was feeling contrained by the small screen on the MacBook. By getting a ThinkPad I was able to get a machine with pretty much identical hardware to a MacBook Pro (minus a few things I don't care about like a webcam to save money), for less than $1000. And that's including whatever the cost of a Vista license was, though I'm not using it having wiped the drive and installed Gentoo Linux (I do, however, have XP running in VirtualBox mostly for testing websites in IE).

It had been a couple years since I used Linux, and I was pleasantly surprised with the progress that's been made. I'm using XFCE which I find to be a good balance of low footprint and advanced desktop environment features. To be honest, I'm really not missing my MacBook at all, and when I'm home I often find myself using the ThinkPad over my iMac. However the usability depends a lot on both your attachment to certain usage paradigms, and your ability and willingness to customize your Linux install. Since I'm running Gentoo, it's extremely easy to build the system from the ground up exactly to the specifications I want, though it's also definitely got a much steeper learning curve than Ubuntu.

If you're really thinking about using Linux, I'd recommend you test out a couple distos and do a little research. There really is a world of difference between them, and some people are going to have a significant preference towards one or another (I, personally, can't really stand using a non-Gentoo Linux having used it for years as well as Ubuntu, Debian, CentOS, Fedora, Red Hat (pre-Fedora) and RedHat EL). Ubuntu is definitely a good starting point, especially if you're not familiar with the command line, but I find it very constraining. You might also want to consider a BSD (I prefer FreeBSD, and would be using it on my ThinkPad except that it lacks drivers for the Intel 4965 AGN wifi card), or even OpenSolaris( which I've heard really good things about and would be using for my home server except that my ancient motherboard isn't compatible).
     
cmeisenzahl  (op)
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Jul 24, 2008, 01:48 PM
 
Originally Posted by nonhuman View Post
It's not quite the same thing, but I recently replaced my MacBook with a Lenovo ThinkPad T61. Basically I do a lot of work (coding, mostly) on the go, and was feeling contrained by the small screen on the MacBook. By getting a ThinkPad I was able to get a machine with pretty much
Fantastic, thanks very much!!
     
Mastrap
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Jul 24, 2008, 04:10 PM
 
Every couple of years I take a look at Linux and every time the old adage holds true: Linux is only free if your time has no value.

I think it's fantastic that Linux exists, I think it's great that there are people out there passionate enough to keep driving it forward, but for me it's OS X all the way. I want my **** to work without thinking about it.
     
mduell
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Jul 24, 2008, 05:16 PM
 
The Dell Inspiron mini (unofficial name) appears to be the best of the bunch so far... Asus has sort of lost their way after the incredible original 7" Eee.

I've tried Linux a few times over the last decade and it's finally reached the point where I'm fine with Ubuntu for what I'd do on a NetBook (Firefox (with a healthy dose of Google apps), Pidgin, and VLC). Their upcoming derivative targeted at NetBooks is probably what I'd take, and with any luck Dell will make it officially supported (they already support Ubuntu on some other laptops).

Sure, for the same $300-400 you could get a bigger "better" laptop, but it loses a lot of the portability at twice the weight with a 15" screen (which is about the same res anyway).
     
nonhuman
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Jul 24, 2008, 05:32 PM
 
Originally Posted by Mastrap View Post
Every couple of years I take a look at Linux and every time the old adage holds true: Linux is only free if your time has no value.

I think it's fantastic that Linux exists, I think it's great that there are people out there passionate enough to keep driving it forward, but for me it's OS X all the way. I want my **** to work without thinking about it.
That's pretty much been my position for the past few years, but as I said, I was extremely impressed when I installed Gentoo on the ThinkPad for the first time in a couple years. Part of the difference, I think, was that this time I was buliding a system for work rather than as a hobby. So I was a lot more conservative with what I chose to install, and am not upgrading every chance I get in favor of sticking with stable versions of all my apps and only upgrading if the upgrade introduces a new feature that I could use or closes a security hole. As a result, my system has been rock solid and very pleasant to use.

Another big part was finally finding a graphical environment that I actually like: in the past I've gone with either Gnome or KDE on one end, or Blockbox or Enlightenment on the other. Gnome and KDE, I find, are just more trouble than they're worth. Sure they offer great integration of their apps, but they just feel like they get in my way more than they help me do anything (which is how I feel about Windows). The more barebones solutions like Blackbox definitely don't get in my way, but lack some of th emore polished features that I like (like well-integrated widgets of some sort to display information like wifi reception, volume, and battery life). XFCE, on the other hand, seems to pretty much perfectly meet my needs: it's very simple, and has a small footprint, but is also very expandable and has a well integrated suite of utilities and programs.

Thus far, I'm extremely happy with my Linux install.
     
CRASH HARDDRIVE
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Jul 24, 2008, 07:26 PM
 
The MSI Wind runs OSX beautifully.
     
mduell
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Jul 24, 2008, 08:23 PM
 
I think people have demonstrated using just about all of the Netbooks as Hackintoshes.
     
Eug
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Jul 24, 2008, 09:23 PM
 
Originally Posted by Mastrap View Post
Every couple of years I take a look at Linux and every time the old adage holds true: Linux is only free if your time has no value.
Yup.

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powerbook867
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Jul 25, 2008, 06:53 PM
 
Originally Posted by Mastrap View Post
Every couple of years I take a look at Linux and every time the old adage holds true: Linux is only free if your time has no value.

I think it's fantastic that Linux exists, I think it's great that there are people out there passionate enough to keep driving it forward, but for me it's OS X all the way. I want my **** to work without thinking about it.
I don't know Mastrap.. It is getting significantly better. I have Ubuntu running on a new Thinkpad w/ 4 Gb of ram, VMWare server for my Windows work running XP and Samba running so that I can map a drive in the Windows VM to keep all my work in one spot in the Ubuntu install. The install just worked out of the gate w/ no hacking around.

When I switch harddrives out when I actually need to boot into a true Windows only environment (rarely) the fresh XP install is a pig on the same hardware..

Back to topic.. The MSI Wind has been getting some pretty good reviews.. I tried an EEE PC and was disappointed with the screen size and the tiny keyboard...
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Eug
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Jul 25, 2008, 09:33 PM
 
Originally Posted by powerbook867 View Post
I don't know Mastrap.. It is getting significantly better. I have Ubuntu running on a new Thinkpad w/ 4 Gb of ram, VMWare server for my Windows work running XP and Samba running so that I can map a drive in the Windows VM to keep all my work in one spot in the Ubuntu install. The install just worked out of the gate w/ no hacking around.

When I switch harddrives out when I actually need to boot into a true Windows only environment (rarely) the fresh XP install is a pig on the same hardware..
Heh. That reminds me of an Onion article I read a long time ago from a guy who was able to seamlessly set up Linux for his grandmother so she could have cron jobs set to run every morning.
     
besson3c
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Jul 25, 2008, 11:41 PM
 
Originally Posted by Mastrap View Post
Every couple of years I take a look at Linux and every time the old adage holds true: Linux is only free if your time has no value.
I don't agree.

If you mean this from the perspective of somebody who doesn't wish to do any tinkering whatsoever and just wants to run application x, fine, I'll agree with you there. However, I think most of here are interested in exploring new ways of working, new computing ideas and experiments, new experiences, etc.

Consider everything I'm about to say as applying specifically to this population...

The "my time is so valuable" thing is a load of garbage. We accomplish, learn, and increase the depths of our problem solving precisely by doing stuff that some might consider a waste of time. There is nothing wrong with a little meandering, tinkering, and experimentation, and you shouldn't feel guilty or overly restrained or fearful about doing this - this is how we learn.

Frankly, Linux is made for this demographic of user. Obviously to those of us (like myself) that are tethered to an application-centric workflow, or don't have the interest or discipline to take on the learning curve, Linux is not going to be worth your time (I could include other qualifications here too, but you get the idea). For the rest of us, let's get real... If the "my time is valuable" argument was true, how would we create anything?
     
Mastrap
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Jul 26, 2008, 07:53 AM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
I don't agree.
What a surprise.

It is completely up to you how you spend your time. And as I've said above I think it's great that there are people out there who feel that their time is best spent working on an OS that's open, freely distributed and not under the control of a major corporation. Good on them and I am glad they feel that way.

I can't be asked to spend endless hours tinkering with a my computer just so I can get wireless reception. I can't be asked to put up with horrible at worst, mediocre at best interface design. I can't be asked to work out dependencies, jump through hoops to listen to mp3 files.

I create stuff for a living and I need my tools to just work. If you have the time to create your tools before you do any actual work then all power to you. Or indeed if it is your job, or just your passion, to create these tools in the first place, again, good for you.

For the rest of us, the people who have either no interest or simply no time to get involved with what's under the hood - except for the occasional metaphorical oil change - Linux is not a viable alternative for everyday computing.

Gimp≠Photoshop and Open Office≠MS Office. You get the idea.
     
Chuckit
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Jul 26, 2008, 08:40 AM
 
It's one thing to have the freedom to tinker. It's quite another to have the requirement to tinker whether you have the inclination or not. It's like, I like to eat pizza, but I wouldn't like to stay in a hotel where they force-feed me half a pizza every 45 minutes. In the same way, Linux is tinkering overdose.
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nonhuman
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Jul 26, 2008, 09:22 AM
 
The thing is, it's really not. It can be if you want it to, but it can also be incredibly simple and painless to set Linux up to work the way you want it it, and once you do that you don't ever have to tinker again.

As an example, you can buy a computer from Dell with Ubuntu pre-installed and set up to do everything up to and including playing DVDs (which absolutely requires tinkering normally because you have to install the DVD decryption software illegally, while Dell has actually paid to include it). Buy one of those, and you've got your Linux system set up for you. Unless you choose to change low-level aspects of it, you don't have to do any tinkering at all. Installing Ubuntu yourself is almost as painless, as long as you're not using very new or uncommon hardware. And this is coming from a Linux user that can't stand Ubuntu.

I'm somewhat in agreement about the state of the UI, but that's getting better as well, and there are some options out there that really are pretty decent out of the box (XFCE, for example).
     
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Jul 26, 2008, 09:47 AM
 
I've thought about an eee 901 or MSI Wind. I want the Atom processor, the non-miniature keyboard. Everytime I think about it, I think about the OS and application uses I need.

I like ThinkGOS, a slimmed down Ubuntu meant for the everex wal-mart PCs. Most of the 'applications' are really links to web apps, which works out well enough for me, but there are occasions when I need OmniOutliner, Adobe Illustrator, InDesign, and Screenflow. I abhor OpenOffice, and Scribus is not InDesign.

Basically, I could use a netbook as a travel machine, but if I wanted to actually -use- it, I'd have to run OS X or use a real Mac.

I don't want to be bothered to use dmesg and fool around in /dev and /etc making my network and peripheral devices work, I don't want to have to fool with getting zeroconf to run properly (avahi? Apple's mDNSResponder, which doesn't use a makefile because the dev says in the comments he can't be bothered to figure out automake? ugh.)

I've set up terminal servers, including LTSP, and the edubuntu variant of it, back when edubuntu had just begun and wasn't refined in the least. I've flashed eeproms for NICs that didn't support PXE in order to get these terminal server clients working properly. I've done all this. It's problem solving, and it's knowledge, but it's really not rewarding knowledge. The reward is in having a system that works well and helps people accomplish goals. Frequently, those goals are greater than "chrooting to get a working Gentoo system."

There's no value to my knowing how to deal with these problems unless I'm paid to do so. I can use my problem solving abilities elsewhere.
     
Chuckit
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Jul 26, 2008, 10:18 AM
 
Originally Posted by nonhuman View Post
The thing is, it's really not. It can be if you want it to, but it can also be incredibly simple and painless to set Linux up to work the way you want it it, and once you do that you don't ever have to tinker again.

As an example, you can buy a computer from Dell with Ubuntu pre-installed and set up to do everything up to and including playing DVDs (which absolutely requires tinkering normally because you have to install the DVD decryption software illegally, while Dell has actually paid to include it). Buy one of those, and you've got your Linux system set up for you. Unless you choose to change low-level aspects of it, you don't have to do any tinkering at all. Installing Ubuntu yourself is almost as painless, as long as you're not using very new or uncommon hardware. And this is coming from a Linux user that can't stand Ubuntu.

I'm somewhat in agreement about the state of the UI, but that's getting better as well, and there are some options out there that really are pretty decent out of the box (XFCE, for example).
As an example, the last Linux computer I set up (it was Ubuntu) couldn't recognize its monitor's resolution. I had to muck around with X command line tools and config files just to get it to display things in a recognizable fashion.
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powerbook867
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Jul 26, 2008, 11:11 AM
 
Originally Posted by Chuckit View Post
As an example, the last Linux computer I set up (it was Ubuntu) couldn't recognize its monitor's resolution. I had to muck around with X command line tools and config files just to get it to display things in a recognizable fashion.
That is still still valid in some instances Chuckit, but with any other OS outside of OS X, it is a possibility. Yeah, in linux, you might have to hit the command line to get it to go initially, but it is still worth it IMHO. I plan on recompiling my kernel here in the coming weeks to have Ubuntu acknowledge more than 3.x Gb of RAM. I will be creating an image first using Acronis..but I'm a nerd and it's something I want to do, not need to do.

The software has improved dramatically as well. An example would be Open Office Vs. MS Office (what ever the latest version is). Wow. Simply bad. I think the UI team at MS is intentionally trying to make it worse.. Most of my work though does not require interaction w/ other Office users, so my situation is somewhat unique. I know Open Office can sometimes reformat documents differently than what MS Office does.

You can choose to tinker if you want, but it is not a requirement IMHO. A solid backup plan remedies that if you do want to tinker. If I am installing alpha level software on any platform..I want a good backup..
Joe
     
Eug
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Jul 26, 2008, 01:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by powerbook867 View Post
Yeah, in linux, you might have to hit the command line to get it to go initially, but it is still worth it IMHO. I plan on recompiling my kernel here in the coming weeks to have Ubuntu acknowledge more than 3.x Gb of RAM.
Ouch. If I didn't know better, I'd swear you were just pulling our collective legs.
     
besson3c
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Jul 26, 2008, 01:43 PM
 
The point I was making is that there are sources of motivation for installing Linux: making use of older hardware, inherited x86/amd64 hardware, inexpensive hardware, etc. Linux is fine for use as a surfing kiosk, simply for word pro, checking email, etc.

Some of you shudder when you think about the tinkering that is often required, but what about the upsides as far as what is learned in the process? A lot of stuff is concealed on Windows and OS X to the user so that the user can operate on a "need to know" basis, but that doesn't mean that we don't have a better understanding of how our computer works when we know this stuff.

Again, for those of us that do want a better understanding, Linux experiments are not time wasters. If you have interest in using Linux as a server OS, it most definitely is not.
     
mduell
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Jul 26, 2008, 01:59 PM
 
Are any of the anti-Linux gripes here actually applicable in 2008? Even if they are, most of them are particularly irrelevant with regard to the topic at hand, since Netbooks don't have >4GB RAM and generally ship with Linux so graphics or network support isn't even a question.

I ended up running Ubuntu for a few days when I couldn't get Windows to install (Apple's crippled aluminum keyboard ended up being the cause of my frustrations, but that's a story for a different thread) and everything just worked. Booted off the liveCD, display was detected perfectly (an HDTV via DVI-HDMI), networking just worked, and I was surfing the web in a tenth of the time it would take to get a Windows or OS X machine online from a bare hard drive.

The phrase "Linux is only free if your time has no value" is just as meaningless as "OS X is only $129 if your time has no value" or any other platform/price inserted into that phrase. The difference in install, setup, and tweaking time for Windows, Linux, and OS X is marginal at best.
     
besson3c
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Jul 26, 2008, 02:22 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chuckit View Post
As an example, the last Linux computer I set up (it was Ubuntu) couldn't recognize its monitor's resolution. I had to muck around with X command line tools and config files just to get it to display things in a recognizable fashion.
Just out of curiosity and for a little context, what version of Ubuntu was it?
     
powerbook867
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Jul 26, 2008, 02:30 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
Ouch. If I didn't know better, I'd swear you were just pulling our collective legs.
No leg pulling, I promise.

http://sudan.ubuntuforums.com/showthread.php?p=5357619

The recompile definitely makes me nervous, but if I blow it up, I'll restore it from a backup image.

I was actually thinking about getting a macbook, but I could not get past the price for the work I needed it for. The Thinkpad was 599 after rebate and while I upgraded the hard drive and ram, it still came in way below a macbook (but I realize they are different classes of machine and OS X is still my primary OS on my home machine)

I need VMWare server to run on it so I can boot a Solaris jumpstart server off my machine in a VM. I had to have Gb ethernet as well. I ended up getting a Thinkpad R61i. Thing is built like a tank, can take 4 Gb of ram and while big, gets the job done..
Joe
     
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Jul 26, 2008, 02:57 PM
 
Originally Posted by mduell View Post
Are any of the anti-Linux gripes here actually applicable in 2008?
I agree, a lot of the gripes are a tad outdated. A lot of LiveCD versions of Linux are nearly as polished and effortless as a commercial OS, and support a vast range of hardware and peripherals right out of the box. (My faves: PCLinuxOS, OpenSuse, and Ubuntu- occasionally Kubuntu 'cause I'm more a KDE sort of person).

The Synaptic or apt-get method of updating and installing software has eliminated a lot of the older dependency nightmares, and actually works better than most commercial methods -though certainly not as polished as Software Update.

One can tinker endlessly if they choose to, or conversely, with a decent distro, be up and working in a matter of minutes with few tweaks needed. And it's hard to beat for breathing new life into older hardware, as you can get an up-to-date user experience on something that wouldn't even run any other modern OS.

Chuckit does make a good point about monitor resolution with certain setups though. I've found the biggest hassle to be things like getting multiple monitors to work correctly right out of the gate.

All of this for desktop use, of course.

When it comes to NAS and server use, I wouldn't waste my time with anything else but Linux. In my office and home, several linux servers and NAZ boxes I have (red hat, centOS and Clarkconnect) are among the most bulletproof, 100% reliable computers I've owned.
     
besson3c
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Jul 26, 2008, 03:16 PM
 
Yeah, the nVidia and ATI drivers are great for some, not-so-great for others... I've been having problems with the nVidia driver, although version 173.x fixes my problems.
     
ctt1wbw
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Jul 26, 2008, 03:42 PM
 
Originally Posted by Mastrap View Post
Every couple of years I take a look at Linux and every time the old adage holds true: Linux is only free if your time has no value.

I think it's fantastic that Linux exists, I think it's great that there are people out there passionate enough to keep driving it forward, but for me it's OS X all the way. I want my **** to work without thinking about it.

This is complete rubbish. The more you use Linux, the better and faster you become with it. Just because you aren't a pro the first time you install it, doesn't mean that it takes forever to use no matter how long you use it...
     
ctt1wbw
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Jul 26, 2008, 03:43 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
Just out of curiosity and for a little context, what version of Ubuntu was it?
Yeah, they had problems like that with Hoary Hedgehog. There's a new version, you know.
     
Mastrap
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Jul 26, 2008, 06:10 PM
 
Originally Posted by ctt1wbw View Post
The more you use Linux, the better and faster you become with it.
That's exactly what I don't have any time for.

And it might be worth noting that just because somebody disagrees with you doesn't make that opinion 'rubbish'. Unless you're still 14 of course.
     
besson3c
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Jul 26, 2008, 06:48 PM
 
Originally Posted by Mastrap View Post
That's exactly what I don't have any time for.

Honestly, I'm slowed down when I have to use Windows too (which is extremely rare). My point is that there is a certain amount of learning curve time required with any new OS you pick up.
     
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Jul 26, 2008, 07:08 PM
 
You can't tell me, a least not with a straight face, that the learning curve with Linux isn't steeper than it is with OS X.
     
besson3c
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Jul 26, 2008, 07:36 PM
 
If Linux has been installed for you, or you install it yourself and hardware works, etc. (i.e. Ubuntu installs properly out of the box as it should, and as people have been reporting here) and you come from a Windows background, you can bet your ass that Gnome would be easier to use than OS X.
( Last edited by besson3c; Jul 26, 2008 at 07:44 PM. )
     
powerbook867
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Jul 26, 2008, 08:41 PM
 
Gnome is pretty freakin clean. All system settings and management are controlled through the GUI and there are very few reasons why you would have to open a terminal window unless you wanted to.

Funny story.. I got my Mac Pro w/ (I think) 10.4.x installed on it. Was really excited to have a machine with some balls. Plugged everything in, powered it up, everything looked good.. but no sound. Checked the cabling, checked the speakers, checked the power strip... you get the idea. An hour later, I am ready to return the machine. Finally, figured out that for some reason, sound output through the speakers was not enabled in System Preferences. Call me stupid, but there is a learning curve to all operating systems.. Some are steeper than others, but Linux today is not what it was 5 years ago.
Joe
     
effgee
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Jul 26, 2008, 11:29 PM
 
Originally Posted by ctt1wbw View Post
This is complete rubbish. The more you use Linux, the better and faster you become with it. Just because you aren't a pro the first time you install it, doesn't mean that it takes forever to use no matter how long you use it...
The only rubbish here is declaring other people's opinions to be rubbish because they aren't congruent with your own. The fact of the matter is that there are quite a few production environments in which the use of Linux simply isn't an option (yet).

Granted, most of these shortcomings aren't caused by Linux but rather by the unwillingness of commercial software publishers and hardware manufacturers to port their apps and/or provide the specs necessary so Linux can properly support their products.

Some people simply do need Adobe Photoshop, and others are working against a) deadlines, and b) the fact that their clients pay them upwards of $100/hr. to get sh*t done.

Then there's also the issue of personal preference: Some people don't mind tinkering with their OS, whereas others do and/or don't have the time to do so. I take a peek at Ubuntu and/or SUSE at least once a year (just wiped an install of OpenSUSE 11 last week), and I usually come to the same conclusion as Mastrap - doesn't work for me (yet).

And aside from "working", there's the very personal issue of looks - not only did OpenSUSE not work for me, I also hated the way it looked and felt ... inconsistent, partly counterintuitive, and in other areas even amateurish and plain ugly.

YMMV, of course.
     
besson3c
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Jul 26, 2008, 11:36 PM
 
effgee: it's /dev/null, not dev/null (looking at your location)...

While one cannot really talk about an OS without talking about the apps that run on it, the original poster sounds like he is covered as far as the applications he would want to run. Although you could probably get Photoshop to run in WINE under Linux, clearly it is a non-starter for graphic designers such as yourself as a work machine...
     
effgee
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Jul 27, 2008, 01:34 AM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
effgee: it's /dev/null, not dev/null (looking at your location)...
I know, but it looks nicer without the leading slash, prerogative of the pixel-pusher

Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
... While one cannot really talk about an OS without talking about the apps that run on it, the original poster sounds like he is covered as far as the applications he would want to run. Although you could probably get Photoshop to run in WINE under Linux, clearly it is a non-starter for graphic designers such as yourself as a work machine...
Yeah, it's a shame that so many (commercial) mainstream apps aren't available for Linux. I hope that's going to change in the coming years - choice is always a good thing to have.

And you're right - cmeisenzahl seems to have his bases covered where apps are concerned, there's plenty of software to choose from in the areas he's looking at.

One last thought, though - to me, it looks like he's in the market for a leisure gadget, something that he's going to use in a recreational sense (= couch surfing, etc.) rather than for actual work. On that basis, I'd make very sure that my Linux distro of choice can deliver on the "fun" (*) part as well.

While $500 isn't that much money for a laptop, it is quite the chunk of change for a gadget that begins to go on one's nerves after the initial attraction has worn off.


(* - as in: "it's a pleasure to use.")
     
CRASH HARDDRIVE
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Jul 27, 2008, 12:54 PM
 
Originally Posted by effgee View Post
The only rubbish here is declaring other people's opinions to be rubbish because they aren't congruent with your own.
Be fair about this: It might be better to state opinions as such, not claim them as an 'old adage'. I think that's what ctt1wbw was calling rubbish.

Of course, Linux isn't for everyone, and doesn't suit every need. But it certainly can (and does) fill many people's needs very well.
     
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Jul 27, 2008, 01:33 PM
 
I haven't read the whole thread, but I thought about a very small laptop recently. I tested the EeeeeeePC and found that the keyboard was just too small to do any useful work. I can't say that I'm fond of the iPod Touch keyboard that I have either. For me personally, anything smaller than a 13" screen just doesn't cut it - 15" is more comfortable for me. Test those keyboards, even if its only for blogging, surfing etc, you don't want to end up with RSI.
     
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Jul 27, 2008, 01:39 PM
 
Originally Posted by ctt1wbw View Post
Yeah, they had problems like that with Hoary Hedgehog. There's a new version, you know.
You are correct, I haven't tried the new version. (It wasn't Hoary. It was Feisty, IIRC.) But frankly, when somebody tells me, "Yeah, the old version blew, but you haven't tried the new version!" I generally hear "The new version has a completely different set of issues that you haven't already solved!" I have just never seen a problem-free Linux setup. Maybe they're out there, but aside from expert users, I haven't found one.
( Last edited by Chuckit; Jul 27, 2008 at 01:47 PM. )
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Jul 27, 2008, 01:42 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chuckit View Post
You are correct, it wasn't the new version. But frankly, when somebody tells me, "Yeah, the old version blew, but the new one is totally perfect!" I tend to hear "The new version has a completely different set of issues that you haven't already solved!"
Why don't you try the latest version of Ubuntu and report back to us, just for fun? All you need to do is boot from the live CD.
     
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Jul 27, 2008, 01:48 PM
 
I don't have a computer that can run it at the moment. I believe Edgy was the last version to run on PPC, which is the only kind of computer I'm in possession of right now.
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besson3c
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Jul 27, 2008, 02:29 PM
 
So you tested Ubuntu on a PPC machine?
     
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Jul 27, 2008, 03:04 PM
 
I have tested it on PPC (when it was supported) and Intel machines. I used to have kind of a large array of machines to play with at work, but most of those aren't currently available for messing around with and all I have at home right now are two PPC Macs.
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How old were the Intel machines at the time?
     
effgee
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Jul 27, 2008, 05:10 PM
 
Originally Posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE View Post
Be fair about this: It might be better to state opinions as such, not claim them as an 'old adage'. I think that's what ctt1wbw was calling rubbish. ...
Beginning a sentence with "Every couple of years I take a look at Linux ..." makes it sort obvious that Mas' was talking about a personal experience, no? Yeah, he could have made the personal experience part more obvious (the "blinking text" effect from MS Word's "Word Art" comes to mind), but that's no reason for a sweeping "rubbish" comment. There's no need to stoop down to MacNN Lounge level that early in the thread.

Back on topic, and as far as the usefulness of Linux in general is concerned, I think I clarified my position on that one: Works great for some, doesn't work at all for others. And yes, I too hope that sometime in the near future it'll become a viable alternative for everyone. Given the right circumstances, I don't see why I wouldn't use it - there's no umbilical cord connecting my brain to 1 Inifinite Loop.
     
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Jul 28, 2008, 12:15 AM
 
Originally Posted by Mastrap View Post
Every couple of years I take a look at Linux and every time the old adage holds true: Linux is only free if your time has no value.
My favourite new blog

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Jul 28, 2008, 12:20 AM
 
Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - View Post
I guess Windows blowhards are only cool when they are being obnoxious towards Linux users, and when they do the same for Mac users it instantly becomes uncool?

Just checking.
     
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Jul 28, 2008, 12:21 AM
 
Actually READ that blog. It might help you save Linux.

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Jul 28, 2008, 12:23 AM
 
…or at least make you understand why Linux On The Desktop will perpetually be ready any-time-soon™.

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besson3c
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Jul 28, 2008, 12:32 AM
 
Everybody's a critic...

I'm well aware of the shortcomings of Linux on the Desktop (although it has made tremendous strides), but what good does mocking them do? If this guy wants to be this much of a blowhard, perhaps he should get busy developing a part of Linux himself, or else he should just be thankful that he doesn't have to run Linux and remain comfortably in Windows world. The same can be said of people that mock and belittle the Mac or Windows, and I'm sure these people exist.

If you'd like to bring one of his points here I'd be glad to discuss it, but otherwise entertaining somebody who has set out to deliberately look for ways to mock the platform (often on emotional levels)... big yawn.
     
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Jul 28, 2008, 12:35 AM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
Everybody's a critic...

I'm well aware of the shortcomings of Linux on the Desktop (although it has made tremendous strides), but what good does mocking them do?
Bringing the embarrassing fact about FOSS to light can only help the community.

Criticism helps.

Linux on the Desktop will always be just around the corner. Hobbyists are free to tinker and do whatever they want with their free time.

Linux on servers are another matter altogether and totally unrelated.

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