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Extremists given a free hand (Page 2)
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Railroader
Banned
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Location: Indy.
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Sep 4, 2008, 07:25 AM
 
     
Dakar V
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Sep 4, 2008, 08:31 AM
 
Originally Posted by Railroader View Post
Actually, I think he lets those he disagrees with get away with the most. In that way he is not fair, but I do respect him for it.
Originally Posted by Railroader View Post
Having a mod in the POL lounge who would only be a lurker is a very bad idea. It is not like any other forum on here.
I'll disagree with both of those.

Anyway, effgee is right.
     
turtle777
Clinically Insane
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Location: planning a comeback !
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Sep 4, 2008, 09:39 AM
 
Originally Posted by Railroader View Post
I wanted to post so I could insult you, but it clearly is not needed.


-t
     
Laminar
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Iowa, how long can this be? Does it really ruin the left column spacing?
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Sep 4, 2008, 10:34 AM
 
Originally Posted by zombie punk View Post
Abuse is pretty much par for the course. Luckily, he's of the right wing persuasion, so there are no consequences.
Actually, like sek, I'm not an idiot about what I say and do. I have received warnings and even, yes, infractions in the past, but instead of complaining about how unfair they were or stupid the mods are, I shaped up. It works wonders.
     
sek929
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Sep 4, 2008, 11:45 AM
 
Originally Posted by zombie punk View Post
I love that you are reveling in breaking the rules of the forum.
I love breaking a rule every 4 years and not constantly complaining about the moderation.

Originally Posted by zombie punk View Post
Abuse is pretty much par for the course. Luckily, he's of the right wing persuasion, so there are no consequences.
Laminar is a right-winger? Who knew, I just thought he liked Mystiques.
     
Laminar
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Iowa, how long can this be? Does it really ruin the left column spacing?
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Sep 4, 2008, 12:35 PM
 
Originally Posted by sek929 View Post
Laminar is a right-winger? Who knew, I just thought he liked Mystiques.
My one post per month in the PL firmly seats me in the "right-winger" position, clearly on vmarks' side.
     
Dakar V
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Sep 4, 2008, 12:36 PM
 
Everyone knows Mystiques are the vehicle of choice for right-wing oppression.
     
Doofy
Clinically Insane
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Sep 4, 2008, 12:38 PM
 
Been inclined to wander... off the beaten track.
That's where there's thunder... and the wind shouts back.
     
Laminar
Posting Junkie
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Location: Iowa, how long can this be? Does it really ruin the left column spacing?
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Sep 4, 2008, 01:39 PM
 
Originally Posted by Dakar V View Post
Everyone knows Mystiques are the vehicle of choice for right-wing oppression.
I hope the reason you haven't posted in my new thread yet is because you're coming up with an amazing photoshop mocking me and everything I value in life.
     
Dakar V
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Sep 4, 2008, 01:40 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
I hope the reason you haven't posted in my new thread yet is because you're coming up with an amazing photoshop mocking me and everything I value in life.
Your pictures didn't load, and opening them directly in a window said not found. It's probably my work internet, but your incompetence wouldn't surprise me, either.
     
Laminar
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Iowa, how long can this be? Does it really ruin the left column spacing?
Status: Offline
Sep 4, 2008, 01:55 PM
 
Ouch. I'm linking them from Blogspot, if that makes a difference. Hm. It appears that they're not loading. Blame my incompetence.
     
Dakar V
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Sep 4, 2008, 01:56 PM
 
*not surprised*
     
brassplayersrock²
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Sep 4, 2008, 03:46 PM
 
I'm not surprised that you're not surprised. Many things don't surprise you anymore Dakar V.
BOO!!
     
Dakar V
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Sep 4, 2008, 03:48 PM
 
berkleeeeeeeeeeeeee
     
brassplayersrock²
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Sep 4, 2008, 03:52 PM
 
Dakarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrra
     
Simon
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Sep 4, 2008, 06:22 PM
 
There you have it. Another thread about the Lounge. And another thread gone down the can. Almost as good as a thread in the actual Lounge. All because a bunch of children chose to act up as long as there's no teacher around to keep them in check.

Just delete everything not Apple-related and watch this place become civil. Best of all a lot of idiots will just vanish. All by themselves.
     
zombie punk
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Sep 4, 2008, 07:39 PM
 
That may not be a bad solution. Either that or just stop moderating the lounge all together. Since some posters are allowed to act up like a bunch of children already, it wouldn't make much difference.
     
Railroader
Banned
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Location: Indy.
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Sep 4, 2008, 08:58 PM
 
Originally Posted by Simon View Post
There you have it. Another thread about the Lounge. And another thread gone down the can. Almost as good as a thread in the actual Lounge. All because a bunch of children chose to act up as long as there's no teacher around to keep them in check.

Just delete everything not Apple-related and watch this place become civil. Best of all a lot of idiots will just vanish. All by themselves.
MacNN is not in the business of giving tech advice. Many people come here because of what the Lounge is. As it is, I don't think they are suffering too much financially, why would they suddenly want to drive away a large segment of ad revenue?
     
Doofy
Clinically Insane
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Location: Vacation.
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Sep 4, 2008, 09:06 PM
 
The only thing that keeps this place alive is the Lounge. After all, we've all got Macs and generally don't need any tech support because nothing ever goes wrong.
Been inclined to wander... off the beaten track.
That's where there's thunder... and the wind shouts back.
     
zombie punk
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Sep 4, 2008, 11:43 PM
 
Well then this is definitely a bad move. The lounge is turning into a forum for one mod's buddies. It would be interesting to look at ad revenue from the PL over the last few months, perhaps there is a huge market for right wing circle jerking.
     
Railroader
Banned
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Location: Indy.
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Sep 4, 2008, 11:52 PM
 
Originally Posted by zombie punk View Post
Well then this is definitely a bad move. The lounge is turning into a forum for one mod's buddies. It would be interesting to look at ad revenue from the PL over the last few months, perhaps there is a huge market for right wing circle jerking.
Again, no need to insult you.
     
zombie punk
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Sep 5, 2008, 12:11 AM
 
Originally Posted by Railroader View Post
Again, no need to insult you.
Again, you add nothing to the discussion. Try again.
     
brassplayersrock²
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Sep 5, 2008, 12:31 AM
 
He's adding truth to the discussion.
     
Laminar
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Location: Iowa, how long can this be? Does it really ruin the left column spacing?
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Sep 5, 2008, 01:05 AM
 
Originally Posted by zombie punk View Post
Well then this is definitely a bad move. The lounge is turning into a forum for one mod's buddies. It would be interesting to look at ad revenue from the PL over the last few months, perhaps there is a huge market for right wing circle jerking.
I think you're confusing the Lounge and the PL. The Lounge is generally fun, light-hearted, and interesting with a lovable cast of characters. The PL is a terrible place with pointless bickering and complaining from a lot of close-minded, one-dimensional, whiney weirdos.
     
Dakar V
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Sep 5, 2008, 09:19 AM
 
Originally Posted by Simon View Post
There you have it. Another thread about the Lounge. And another thread gone down the can. Almost as good as a thread in the actual Lounge. All because a bunch of children chose to act up as long as there's no teacher around to keep them in check.

Just delete everything not Apple-related and watch this place become civil. Best of all a lot of idiots will just vanish. All by themselves.
You know, I can sympathize with not liking both the PL and Lounge, but at the same time, maybe you shouldn't be clicking the threads?

Actually, the mods should do Simon a favor and ban him from the Lounge. I'm completely serious. The people who are self-banned from the PL swear by it.
     
zombie punk
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Sep 5, 2008, 12:58 PM
 
Dakar, your prescription for those who are on the wrong end of this simply to leave is what will happen if nothing else is done, but it's depressing if the forum can't do better than that.
     
Railroader
Banned
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Location: Indy.
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Sep 5, 2008, 02:36 PM
 
What do you mean "wrong end"?!?

I have been on the "wrong end" plenty of times, but you know, I decided that they make 100% of the rules, and if they don't want to follow them, then I can stop visiting the site. As soon as you accept that you have no rights here the better off you'll be.
     
Dakar V
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Sep 5, 2008, 02:44 PM
 
Originally Posted by zombie punk View Post
Dakar, your prescription for those who are on the wrong end of this simply to leave is what will happen if nothing else is done, but it's depressing if the forum can't do better than that.
I don't believe the PL moderation is completely fair, but I can't speculate as to how biased it is without some type of public record of moderation.

What I can tell you is that the outrage has been raised by members of questionable reputation, and thus, must be taken with a grain of salt.

Not to mention I think quite a few of the recent entrants into the PL are either former or current members under a new account – though I have no real proof of that suspicion, either. Supposing I'm right, though, such accounts would serve to aggravate the condition of the PL.
     
zombie punk
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Sep 5, 2008, 05:48 PM
 
Originally Posted by Railroader View Post
What do you mean "wrong end"?!?

I have been on the "wrong end" plenty of times, but you know, I decided that they make 100% of the rules, and if they don't want to follow them, then I can stop visiting the site. As soon as you accept that you have no rights here the better off you'll be.
Well that's just fine - were a statement to be made that the PL is a forum for right wing nuts to congratulate each other without fear of reality, we would know to stay away. The issue is that it is billed as an open forum for discussion.
     
Sickster  (op)
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Sep 5, 2008, 06:01 PM
 
Originally Posted by Railroader View Post
why would they suddenly want to drive away a large segment of ad revenue?
There are ads on MacNN? Wow, you'd think that they would be less inclined to drive people away. Well, **** it then. If the PL is just a refuge for right wing extremists to shelter from reality, let them do it there.
     
brassplayersrock²
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Sep 5, 2008, 07:24 PM
 
Ya know, if you're not happy with a place, the most logical thing to do is to not go there anymore.
Kinda makes sense...
     
Railroader
Banned
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Location: Indy.
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Sep 5, 2008, 11:22 PM
 
I gotta say, I agree with bpr2 here.

And if I am agreeing with bpr2, then it must be a Good Idea™.
     
turtle777
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: planning a comeback !
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Sep 5, 2008, 11:51 PM
 
Originally Posted by brassplayersrock² View Post
Kinda makes sense...
I dunno.

Since even the mods at MacNN disagree on a regular basis about policy issues, just leaving when you disagree doesn't always seem the only logical solution.

-t
     
effgee
Caffeinated Theme Master
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: hell (says dakar)
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Sep 6, 2008, 12:05 AM
 
Originally Posted by brassplayersrock² View Post
Ya know, if you're not happy with a place, the most logical thing to do is to not go there anymore.
Kinda makes sense...
What would make sense would be an earnest and level-headed (!) attempt at pointing out the issue, discussing and - if necessary - fixing it. But who am I kidding, it's not like the folks who brought it up in the first place have earned themselves a medal or anything. Quite the opposite, actually.

Lots of noise with little to no substance (*), as usual. Carry on.



(* - That was not in reference to your post, BPR.)
     
brassplayersrock²
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Sep 6, 2008, 12:27 AM
 
Just a suggestion. The words, "war" and "party bickering" could be taken out of the description of the sub forum. War indicates fighting, and so does bickering. It sounds lame, but when people see certain words, their mindsets get a bit unshrewd in how they should act. In positive and negative ways.
     
imitchellg5
Posting Junkie
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Sep 6, 2008, 10:25 AM
 
Originally Posted by brassplayersrock² View Post
Ya know, if you're not happy with a place, the most logical thing to do is to not go there anymore.
Kinda makes sense...
Unfortunately the people who are constantly unhappy with MacNN and that it isn't Run The Way It Should Be can't seem to leave.
( Last edited by imitchellg5; Sep 6, 2008 at 04:01 PM. )
     
brassplayersrock²
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Sep 6, 2008, 10:31 AM
 
* ??

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 View Post
unfortunately the people who are constantly unhappy with macnn and that is isn't run the way it should be can't seem to leave.
( Last edited by brassplayersrock²; Sep 6, 2008 at 10:41 AM. )
     
Chongo
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Sep 6, 2008, 11:41 AM
 
Originally Posted by Sickster View Post
While I appreciate Cold Warrior locking a serious feedback thread for no apparent reason, I would like to broaden the discussion. Why are right wing extremists given a free hand to abuse others in the PL, while everyone else is banned for responding in kind? This is a serious question - I think it's appropriate to allow discussion.
I guess that is why a received a demerit for my deleted post in a vegetarian thread.
     
zombie punk
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Sep 6, 2008, 02:23 PM
 
Originally Posted by brassplayersrock² View Post
Ya know, if you're not happy with a place, the most logical thing to do is to not go there anymore.
Kinda makes sense...
Unless you think it has potential, and are willing to work to change it. If everyone took the view that if they were not 100% happy with something they should walk away from it then nothing would ever change, in fact, nearly everything would get worse.
     
Chuckit
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: San Diego, CA, USA
Status: Offline
Sep 6, 2008, 03:28 PM
 
Like I've said before, just be decent. I've never seen vmarks ban somebody for excessive niceness.

Honestly, if you feel like somebody is being rude, just report them. Don't stoop to their level. "Right-wing" folk do get infractions too. And when you get an infraction, try to say to yourself, "Oh, this is something I can work on." Like I said, we don't have an "being too nice and sunshiny" infraction.
Chuck
___
"Instead of either 'multi-talented' or 'multitalented' use 'bisexual'."
     
imitchellg5
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Sep 6, 2008, 04:02 PM
 
Originally Posted by brassplayersrock² View Post
* ??
O hai. Mah gramer es grate.K thanx gbye
     
Railroader
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Sep 6, 2008, 05:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by zombie punk View Post
Unless you think it has potential, and are willing to work to change it. If everyone took the view that if they were not 100% happy with something they should walk away from it then nothing would ever change, in fact, nearly everything would get worse.
First of all, you act as if MacNN needs to change and not you. I am not saying that is true either.

But a flaw in your argument is that a long time ago, Apple made some pretty horrible computers. People walked away and started using Windows. Apple saw they needed to change because people were walking away and decided to make the iMac and many more products that attract customers.

Sometimes the best change you can force is done simply by walking away.
     
analogika
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Sep 7, 2008, 07:36 AM
 
Originally Posted by Railroader View Post
Sometimes the best change you can force is done simply by walking away.
Ironically, the biggest reason why the Poli Lounge is the annoying shithole it is, is that most people with some sense did just that a long time ago.
     
vmarks
Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Up In The Air
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Sep 7, 2008, 11:51 AM
 
Point of fact: The reason the Poli lounge was founded was to take the politics out of the regular Lounge so that people who were otherwise enjoying themselves on non-Mac topics could more easily avoid topics that frequently descend into bickering more than discussion.
     
zombie punk
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Sep 7, 2008, 12:05 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chuckit View Post
Like I've said before, just be decent. I've never seen vmarks ban somebody for excessive niceness.

Honestly, if you feel like somebody is being rude, just report them. Don't stoop to their level. "Right-wing" folk do get infractions too. And when you get an infraction, try to say to yourself, "Oh, this is something I can work on." Like I said, we don't have an "being too nice and sunshiny" infraction.
That's easy to say, as you are not the one receiving discriminatory treatment for your views.
     
vmarks
Moderator Emeritus
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Sep 7, 2008, 07:41 PM
 
Originally Posted by zombie punk View Post
That's easy to say, as you are not the one receiving discriminatory treatment for your views.
And neither are you.

You receive infractions and bans which are issued automatically on the basis of the volume of infractions you receive solely for the sorts of comments of yours which were quoted in the first page of this thread.

None of those comments are reflective of your views, beliefs, or even the 'reality' which you mention above in this thread. They are simply you being disrespectful to others, which is outside the bounds of the rules you agreed to when you signed up and began posting.

For the benefit of this feedback thread and everyone in general: Infractions are only seen by the moderators, admins, and the recipient of the infraction. That means, when you say 'someone else got away with EXAMPLE OF BAD BEHAVIOR' - this is a falsehood. They didn't 'get away' with anything, it's just invisible to you.

They too received an infraction in all likelihood. What they did or didn't receive, and how many points it was worth is unimportant to you, only important to them - what is important is that when you receive one, you don't commit the same mistake again. Committing the same mistakes again will lead to the automated banning, which some of the people in this thread have been on the receiving end.

That's really all that it comes down to:

(1) Be excellent to each other.

(2) Always make new mistakes.

(1a) Remember to wind your watch.
     
zombie punk
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Status: Offline
Sep 8, 2008, 12:36 AM
 
Nonsense. On stilts.
Your post does not pass the 'straight face test'.
The reality is that the PL is policed by one extremist who cannot stand the presence of people who challenge his fragile worldview. The result is that over time bad behavior from the ideologically pure is tolerated, while those who disagree are banned. It doesn't take anything more than an honest look at the place to see that this is true - the only question is 'is this what the owners of MacNN have in mind'?

Perhaps one solution would be to start another PL for actual discussion, and rename the current one to reflect that fact that it is solely for VMark's buddies to congratulate each other without fear of critique?
( Last edited by zombie punk; Sep 8, 2008 at 12:45 AM. )
     
turtle777
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: planning a comeback !
Status: Offline
Sep 8, 2008, 01:28 AM
 
zombie punk, let me explain to you how things work around here:



Hope that helps.

-t
     
Chuckit
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: San Diego, CA, USA
Status: Offline
Sep 8, 2008, 03:29 AM
 
Originally Posted by zombie punk View Post
Nonsense. On stilts.
Your post does not pass the 'straight face test'.
The reality is that the PL is policed by one extremist who cannot stand the presence of people who challenge his fragile worldview. The result is that over time bad behavior from the ideologically pure is tolerated, while those who disagree are banned. It doesn't take anything more than an honest look at the place to see that this is true - the only question is 'is this what the owners of MacNN have in mind'?

Perhaps one solution would be to start another PL for actual discussion, and rename the current one to reflect that fact that it is solely for VMark's buddies to congratulate each other without fear of critique?
Let's dump the vague accusations. What exactly is it that you think is going on here? We've already established that left-wing people and right-wing people are both disciplined when they act up in the PL. We've established that vmarks does indeed respond to abuse reports even when they relate to people who are agreeing with him. Do you think I'm lying? If not, in what specific ways do you feel discriminated against? Specifically what more should be done here?

Also, stop personally attacking vmarks. It isn't appropriate. It's one thing to make comments about the moderation here; it's another to make snide remarks about "his fragile worldview."
Chuck
___
"Instead of either 'multi-talented' or 'multitalented' use 'bisexual'."
     
Doofy
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Vacation.
Status: Offline
Sep 8, 2008, 04:45 AM
 
Originally Posted by zombie punk View Post
Nonsense. On stilts.
Your post does not pass the 'straight face test'.
The reality is that the PL is policed by one extremist who cannot stand the presence of people who challenge his fragile worldview. The result is that over time bad behavior from the ideologically pure is tolerated, while those who disagree are banned. It doesn't take anything more than an honest look at the place to see that this is true - the only question is 'is this what the owners of MacNN have in mind'?

Perhaps one solution would be to start another PL for actual discussion, and rename the current one to reflect that fact that it is solely for VMark's buddies to congratulate each other without fear of critique?
This is BS. I've had infractions from vmarks whenever I step over the line. Example:

Originally Posted by vmarks
Dear Doofy,

You have received an infraction at MacNN Forums.

Reason: Political Lounge Rule Violation
The only difference between you and I, zombie punk, is:

1) I didn't acquire multiple infractions leading to a ban.

2) I didn't come to the feedback thread to whine about it like a little girl.

3) I'm a handsome, intelligent bloke.

( Last edited by Doofy; Sep 8, 2008 at 07:30 AM. )
Been inclined to wander... off the beaten track.
That's where there's thunder... and the wind shouts back.
     
 
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