[awaspaas]

Okay, so my girlfriend and I are buying a new townhome. Every room has a single CAT5e jack in it, which run by regular 8-conductor CAT5 wiring to a telephone-style termination unit in the utility room. From what I can tell, this is simply a multi-line analogue telephone setup.

My question is this. We do not plan on using a landline telephone. If we get any hardwired phone at all, we will use VOIP. Otherwise we just use our cellphones. If you were in this situation, would you: A) replace the telephone wiring block with an ethernet switch and have an efficient, fully wired network, B) use 4 conductors of the CAT5 for ethernet, and the other two pairs for telephone, understanding fully well that performance will suffer due to reduced insulation, but have a far more versatile system that should require no modification at selling time, C) leave the system as-is, and rely on 802.11g, understanding that the MythTV box in the living room may have trouble streaming high-bitrate video from the computer in the upstairs office (I've tried it, it's jumpy sometimes).

I don't really like option C due to the parenthetical note above, so I'm really torn between A and B. A would need to be modified when we sell the house in ~5 years or so - we have to assume a buyer would like a phone system. B is appealing, but I'm concerned with putting that effort into a shoddy system that might not work so great.

Any thoughts?

[awaspaas]

Here's some pix of the place, by the way.

http://www.andyaspaas.com/PhotoAlbum57.html

[DarwinX]

While A.) would be awesome, I think the best overall short/long term is choice B.) Just my 2 cents.

Nice place.

[Eug Wanker]

How hard would it be to just reinstall the telephone box when you leave? That way you could just leave the Ethernet jacks as is (option A), and the next owner will just use them for voice.

[jasonsRX7]

Does the punch down block look like this (110 punch down block) or like this (66 block) or like this (cat5 patch panel)?

If it's all on a 110 or 66 block, I'd mount a patch panel and pull a few drops off the block for the rooms where you know you'd want/need the speed. Then, stick a switch with wireless in the wiring closet and you're good to go. You'll still have telco to some rooms if you need it.

Edit: just looked at your apartment pictures. I have the exact same TV and entertainment center as you. Spooky

[mitchell_pgh]

I would go for B. Remember that you are not going to live there forever, so make sure whatever you "add on" to the house will be vallue added.

If you create something that is unique, instead of adding value, it could be reducing value.

If I were you, I would:

A) Just run standard cat 5 + traditional phone (with an elegant hub in a closet). This would be rather inexpensive.

or

2) Don't touch anything and use wireless.

I would go with option A as you can say the place is wired, it is more secure than wireless and would add value to the condo. B doesn't do anything.

[macroy]

Option A.

What you can simply do is to patch the 110 connections going to the outside phone lines to a universal block and just use patch cables to a switch. This is cleaner than going straight from the lines to a switch (you'd also have to put RJ-45's on them... PITA)

When you leave, just take the switch and the universal block off, and replace the outside phone connections.. and its back to the original setup.

[awaspaas]

Okay, it looks like that 66 block in the picture above, I think. I'll go over there over lunch and take a picture of it and post it here.

The place was finished when we found it, so I'd rather not run more cables, although having 2 CAT5's to each room would be the best solution. I do like the idea of keeping the panel as-is but running a few lines off of it for the high-speed network.

[ghporter]

Firstly, this is the Lounge-there's a forum JUST FOR NETWORKING QUESTIONS...It's called "Networking."

Ok, the snyde switch is off now. I'd go with a modification of A: punch Cat5 connections for a switch onto the 66 block, and run with it. The biggest thing I'd recommend beyond that is to selectively use the appropriate Cat5 pair for telephone connections. It doesn't make sense to wire every jack for telephone, just as it isn't necessary to wire all of them for network either.

I do not know who told you that there was any degradation of function through using Cat5 for more than just data, but they were not being realistic (as in wrong). The INSULATION is not affected in the least-the plastic sheathing on each wire and the bundle as a whole is completely unaffected by what use you put each pair to. Further, because each of the four pairs in Cat5 is twisted individually, there is little likelihood of crosstalk between ANY pairs. Hey, Cat5 is DESIGNED for multiple simultaneous media uses!

Finally, using wireless when you have all the wires you need would limit your available bandwidth to what the wireless network can do at each particular point in the house you might want to connect, while the bandwidth avaiable at each RJ45 jack would be identical and greater than ANY 802.11G wireless connection available.

[awaspaas]

Okay, here's what I was told by a friend that seems to know more about that stuff than I do - 100BASE-T only uses 4 conductors, but the other 4, provided they're set at the network-ground, provide RF insulation to the conductors in use. Using 4 conductors for ethernet and 4 for telephone would provide no extra insulation to the ethernet wires since the telephone wires are not set to the network ground, and performance will suffer.

If that weren't the case, why do ethernet cables have 8 conductors? (I am NOT a networking expert if you can't tell)

[awaspaas]

Here's a howto for option B - where I got the idea.

http://www.mavromatic.com/archives/000458

[ghporter]

Nope, he lied to you. What he was referring to was "shielding," and since all the pairs are twisted (with a higher twist rate in higher grades of Cat5 cable), they are inherently self-shielding. Standard Cat5 cable is referred to as "UTP" cable-"Unshielded, twisted pair" cable.

According to the T568 standard, the other pairs are "unused." Look here for some details. They are frequently used for voice lines in business networks to reduce the cost of cabling for both phone and network. Further, telephone takes only ONE PAIR; as all four pairs are twised together throughout the length of the cable, they shield each other quite effectively. Also, the use of twisted pair cabling goes hand-in-hand with "differential signaling:" the use of the difference in signal voltage between the two wires of the pair. This allows the connection to reject a significant amount of interfering signal, since both wire in the pair are equally exposed to those signals, so the difference in signal between them will be unaffected.

Current building codes call for Cat5 or better cabling for ALL communications wiring in homes. That's because Cat5 is so flexible...you can do a lot with it.

[jasonsRX7]

Originally Posted by awaspaas

If that weren't the case, why do ethernet cables have 8 conductors? (I am NOT a networking expert if you can't tell)

They're cat5 cables, ethernet is just one of the things they're used for. Yes, you'll only be using pins 1,2,3 and 6, leaving the other 2 pair free, but don't use them for voice. Either pull the whole drop off for data, or leave it on the 66 block for voice.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by jasonsRX7

They're cat5 cables, ethernet is just one of the things they're used for. Yes, you'll only be using pins 1,2,3 and 6, leaving the other 2 pair free, but don't use them for voice. Either pull the whole drop off for data, or leave it on the 66 block for voice.

Why not use one pair for voice? The cable is designed for that use.

[awaspaas]

Thanks for the clarification - I was confusing insulation with shielding (I'm a chemist, gimme a break) - I still have seen lots of discussions/sites that frown upon using a single cable for two device types, and most claim crosstalk as the reason. When I get some time, I'll re-google and post some of them here.

[residentEvil]

Leave the Cat5. You can also run audio (stereo or mono) and video (composit, s-video or component) on the wire. Being only 4 pair though, if you run component video you can only run mono audio.

(just another option instead of wireless A/V to another room).

[residentEvil]

And oh, might I suggest to anyone running cable, specially in new construction, to use the following:

http://www.smarthome.com/8682.html

It saves lots of time/money in the long run so you don't have to go back and refish thru walls. All remodeling I have done, even to my garage, has been with SpeedWrap. Even if you don't use all of the wire now, simply leave it coiled behind your low voltage wall box and it is ready when you need it.

While I'm not using fiber right now, the double RG6 and Cat5E runs have been very handy between the living room and home theater as well as the bedrooms.

Oh, did I mention the theater is FINALLY done? Finished installing and painting the trim Sunday night and hung the last of the drapes up last night.

[jasonsRX7]

Originally Posted by ghporter

Why not use one pair for voice? The cable is designed for that use.

You can use it all you want, but it leads to sloppy wiring and harder to diagnose when there's a problem, and you won't be able to do gigabit.

[awaspaas]

Here's the punchdown:

[awaspaas]

Looks like right now, just blue and blue/white are wired for telco and that's it.

[jasonsRX7]

My suggestion is to pull off the two cables corresponding to the rooms you want to network, punch them down to one of these and mount it adjacent to the 66 block. Check the wiring at the wall plates in each room and make sure they're using RJ45 Cat5e jacks. Then, put your switch in the closet and plug in your patch cables.

[macroy]

Originally Posted by residentEvil

And oh, might I suggest to anyone running cable, specially in new construction, to use the following:

http://www.smarthome.com/8682.html

That's pretty sweet. Not a stero guy at all... but can you run stereo lines with those things? seems like you'd need a higher gauge wire for that purpose...

[awaspaas]

Originally Posted by jasonsRX7

My suggestion is to pull off the two cables corresponding to the rooms you want to network, punch them down to one of these and mount it adjacent to the 66 block. Check the wiring at the wall plates in each room and make sure they're using RJ45 Cat5e jacks. Then, put your switch in the closet and plug in your patch cables.

I do like that idea, since essentially I only have two rooms I want to connect. Do you suggest actually pulling those cables out of the block and reconnect them to a Cat5 patch panel, or should I disconnect the telco from those wires, and run new wires from the 66 block to the patch panel? Both should work right? The latter would be easier to put back to sellable condition, I imagine.

[awaspaas]

Oh, and some of the colors have to be switched when wiring to a Cat5 patch panel right, like orange to blue, etc?

The wall plates all have those good modular Cat5e jacks like the one you linked to, I checked.

[zerostar]

What about a dual band 802.11g solution? I am running some buffalo equipment with 4 ceiling plate antennas and I am getting around 80Mbps in every corner of the house.

I would imagine that would be plenty to stream SD Television, as for HD well, that is a few years off I'd imagine. 802.11n with H.264 perhaps?

[jasonsRX7]

Originally Posted by awaspaas

I do like that idea, since essentially I only have two rooms I want to connect. Do you suggest actually pulling those cables out of the block and reconnect them to a Cat5 patch panel, or should I disconnect the telco from those wires, and run new wires from the 66 block to the patch panel? Both should work right? The latter would be easier to put back to sellable condition, I imagine.

I suggest actually pulling the cable that runs to the room off the block and punching it down to a cat5e wall mount patch panel, assuming you have enough slack in the cable. You'll need a punch down tool and 110 blade if you want to use the right tools for the job.

[jasonsRX7]

Originally Posted by awaspaas

Oh, and some of the colors have to be switched when wiring to a Cat5 patch panel right, like orange to blue, etc?

The color is determined by the wiring standard you use. It doesn't matter if you use 568a or 568b, as long as its the same at each end, although 568a is generally preferred nowadays. If you wire 568a on one end, and 568b on the other, you'll end up with a crossover cable, so careful not to do that. The jack should have a color key that you can match up with the pairs in the cable to make sure you're doing it right.

[awaspaas]

Originally Posted by jasonsRX7

I suggest actually pulling the cable that runs to the room off the block and punching it down to a cat5e wall mount patch panel, assuming you have enough slack in the cable. You'll need a punch down tool and 110 blade if you want to use the right tools for the job.

Right, I sort of figured it would be better to go right to the Cat5e patch panel. One fewer splice, I suppose.

This is what the wall jack looks like:



I think i can figure out the wiring scheme from that.

Thanks for the help!!

[awaspaas]

Hey look, it has A and B on the label there. Looks like they used A.

[residentEvil]

Originally Posted by macroy

That's pretty sweet. Not a stero guy at all... but can you run stereo lines with those things? seems like you'd need a higher gauge wire for that purpose...

sorry to derail; part 1

i use one COAX as cable tv IN to each location.
i use one COAX as modulated channel OUT to an 8-way amplified splitter for security cameras.

i use one ENET for network.
i use one ENET for stereo audio signals and composit signals (the wire gauge is plenty for the length i'm running. while you can do component video, and VGA up to 350 feet with Cat5, i wouldn't)

at each end the 2 pair are turned into RCA jacks via an audio baluns at each end; same with composit video. it is just another way of having multiroom audio/video. the 4th pair in that Cat5, for example in my garage, is also a low voltage trigger back to my home theater. i can then control it via remote in the garage and change cds/etc. the stereo audio is simply plugged into the line-in on a cheap receiver in the garage. the speaker terminals from there are then split with a Niles 8 pair speaker setup to 4 pair of speakers outside (with 4 free for later). I have a zone in the back yard, a zone on the patio and 2 zones in the garage (one by the power tools and one by the bench); each with independent volume control. works well and it is all done via Cat5.

i'm still not using the fiber at this point, but that would be a solution for 5.1 sound and component/RGB video whole house a/v. the electronics are just more expensive than simple stereo RCA and composit video baluns.

sorry for derail part 2:

the home theater has dedicated A/V as well as the upstairs HD set and the HD set in the pool table room (just bought that one). the DVD player in the theater doubles as DVD source for the theater via component video and HDMI to the new pool table LCD.

[residentEvil]

T-568A/T-568B

A is usually telco, B is usually network

http://www.aptcommunications.com/ncode.htm

B will be your typical Cat5 patch cable. A will be your typical punch at each end of a Cat3 or Cat5 phone run.

A network cross over cable is B on one end and A on the other.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by zerostar

What about a dual band 802.11g solution? I am running some buffalo equipment with 4 ceiling plate antennas and I am getting around 80Mbps in every corner of the house.

I would imagine that would be plenty to stream SD Television, as for HD well, that is a few years off I'd imagine. 802.11n with H.264 perhaps?

But this solution is EXCEPTIONALLY expensive, particularly compared to Cat5 that's already installed.

[awaspaas]

Originally Posted by ghporter

But this solution is EXCEPTIONALLY expensive, particularly compared to Cat5 that's already installed.

And I bet it still craps out when somebody uses a microwave or an airplane flies over.