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awaspaas · Jan 9, 2007, 04:14 PM

Cue the "no 1080p" whiners!

Chuckit · Jan 9, 2007, 04:23 PM

This sounds cool. I'd love to be able to stream all of my downloaded por— er, "TV shows" to my TV. Price is just a little higher than I can buy on impulse, though.

Dakar² · Jan 9, 2007, 04:26 PM

Seems decently cheap, wanna play with the interface.

Only thing that could possibly have improved it if it was a DVR.

mduell · Jan 9, 2007, 04:37 PM

No 1080p, no gigabit ethernet, no MPEG2 support, no CableCard support, no way to play a DVD (external drive or another machine)... it's a stinker.

RAILhead · Jan 9, 2007, 04:38 PM

You HAVE to have a widescreen TV?

awaspaas · Jan 9, 2007, 04:45 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

This sounds cool. I'd love to be able to stream all of my downloaded por— er, "TV shows" to my TV. Price is just a little higher than I can buy on impulse, though.

Does anybody know if this will actually play DVIX/XVID stuff though? Or only iTunes-purchased content.

The tech specs say: Video formats supported: H.264 and protected H.264 (from iTunes Store): 640 by 480, 30 fps, LC version of Baseline Profile; 320 by 240, 30 fps, Baseline profile up to Level 1.3; 1280 by 720, 24 fps, Progressive Main Profile. MPEG-4: 640 by 480, 30 fps, Simple Profile

awaspaas · Jan 9, 2007, 04:48 PM

Originally Posted by RAILhead

You HAVE to have a widescreen TV?

Is there such thing as a 4:3 tv that accepts component or HDMI?

goMac · Jan 9, 2007, 04:48 PM

It's kinda weird. I would like a TV tuner. A few weeks ago I was in Cupertino talking to an Apple engineer, and I mentioned how I wanted the iTV to have a tuner. He asked why I would have cable anyway when I could just get all my shows off of iTunes. It's a good point, but I still like the channel surfing.

mdc · Jan 9, 2007, 04:49 PM

I'm going to assume that it will sync with whatever is in iTunes. So whatever movies you can make iTunes play, I'm sure this will play. . . Hopefully, since I really hope Divx/Xvid movies work.

Zeeb · Jan 9, 2007, 04:49 PM

When I finally upgrade to a widescreen TV I might look at it again. I already feel overwhelmed by media choices and I really don't need more virtual living. Do they envision hoardes of people with absolutely nothing to do besides watch TV, connect to the internet, play video games and listen to music? I can barely keep up with my netflix mailings.

Goldfinger · Jan 9, 2007, 04:50 PM

Meh: no RGB scart with 576i = buhbye european market for the next 5 years. It sure doesn't work with my widescreen PAL tv..

Are there any Apple TV like things with SCART and H264 support out there ?

Chuckit · Jan 9, 2007, 04:52 PM

Originally Posted by mduell

No 1080p, no gigabit ethernet, no MPEG2 support, no CableCard support, no way to play a DVD (external drive or another machine)... it's a stinker.

It isn't supposed to do that stuff. Playing DVDs is the function of a DVD player. Just because a product isn't another product doesn't mean it's a stinker. This is like complaining that your TV can't make popcorn.

Millennium · Jan 9, 2007, 04:54 PM

Originally Posted by awaspaas

Is there such thing as a 4:3 tv that accepts component or HDMI?

Mine accepts component (not HDMI, though) and it only does 480i. I found this out the hard way when I tried to connect my Wii through component and set it to 480p. Not fatal, just a pain to fix.

awaspaas · Jan 9, 2007, 04:57 PM

Originally Posted by mdc

I'm going to assume that it will sync with whatever is in iTunes. So whatever movies you can make iTunes play, I'm sure this will play. . . Hopefully, since I really hope Divx/Xvid movies work.

Doubtful. AVI files need to be converted into MOV or MP4 to play in iTunes.

Spliff · Jan 9, 2007, 05:03 PM

How does this compare to the XBox 360? All the MS fanboys over at Engadget are saying that the XBo 360 has been doing this and more for a year.

BRussell · Jan 9, 2007, 05:04 PM

At worst you can always just convert your video to mp4.

KeyLimePi · Jan 9, 2007, 05:05 PM

Originally Posted by mduell

No 1080p, no gigabit ethernet, no MPEG2 support, no CableCard support, no way to play a DVD (external drive or another machine)... it's a stinker.

1080p on a wireless system is overkill, even for 802.11n...likewise, why would you need gigabit ethernet for 720p? Apple doesn't support MPEG2 much, and since there's no tv tuner, why would you expect CableCard? And as for a DVD player...this isn't suppose to replace your DVD set-up. It's suppose to let you stream files from your Mac to your TV.

Just because it's not what you want doesn't mean it's a "stinker."

mduell · Jan 9, 2007, 05:06 PM

Originally Posted by awaspaas

Does anybody know if this will actually play DVIX/XVID stuff though? Or only iTunes-purchased content.

The tech specs say: Video formats supported: H.264 and protected H.264 (from iTunes Store): 640 by 480, 30 fps, LC version of Baseline Profile; 320 by 240, 30 fps, Baseline profile up to Level 1.3; 1280 by 720, 24 fps, Progressive Main Profile. MPEG-4: 640 by 480, 30 fps, Simple Profile

It plays MPEG-4, so you may be able to get your infringed divx/xvid files to play by changing the fourcc.

Originally Posted by Chuckit

It isn't supposed to do that stuff. Playing DVDs is the function of a DVD player. Just because a product isn't another product doesn't mean it's a stinker. This is like complaining that your TV can't make popcorn.

Playing DVDs is a function of my media center. Displaying TV signals is a function of my media center. The AppleTV can't be my media center.

I guess a Mac mini would work for me, except for the lack of CableCard.

mduell · Jan 9, 2007, 05:09 PM

Originally Posted by KeyLimePi

1080p on a wireless system is overkill, even for 802.11n...likewise, why would you need gigabit ethernet for 720p?

Put those two statements together, and I can use my gigabit ethernet for my 1080p content.

Originally Posted by KeyLimePi

Apple doesn't support MPEG2 much, and since there's no tv tuner, why would you expect CableCard? And as for a DVD player...this isn't suppose to replace your DVD set-up. It's suppose to let you stream files from your Mac to your TV.

Just because it's not what you want doesn't mean it's a "stinker."

Some of us have a lot of MPEG2 files sitting around; many of those come in the form of DVDs. With no support for either, I can't play my movie collection without degrading the quality.
With CableCard, I'd get a TV tuner; it would be nice, but as I said in another thread it's not going to happen at this pricepoint.

Dork. · Jan 9, 2007, 05:11 PM

I am looking for something to replace my aging Series I TiVo, and as long as I'm looking I may as well go HD because it makes no sense to buy a box that I want to keep for 5+ years that doesn't do HD. TiVo wants to sell me a box that costs $800, and charge me a subscription fee on top of that! I'll pass.

I agree that there's no reason for the Apple TV to have a tuner by default, because not everyone will need one. But I need the option to plug something like an EyeTV into this thing and turn it into a PVR. If I can't do that, I'll likely pass on this, too.

I couldn't care less about 1080i, since I'm perfectly happy with the resolution of my Standard Analog 30" TV.

Chuckit · Jan 9, 2007, 05:14 PM

Originally Posted by mduell

Playing DVDs is a function of my media center. Displaying TV signals is a function of my media center. The AppleTV can't be my media center.

No, but it can allow you to play stuff from your computer on your TV — y'know, what it's meant to do. It isn't meant to replace your DVD player, cable box, speakers, etc.

Mike Pither · Jan 9, 2007, 05:21 PM

Originally Posted by Goldfinger

Meh: no RGB scart with 576i = buhbye european market for the next 5 years. It sure doesn't work with my widescreen PAL tv..

Are there any Apple TV like things with SCART and H264 support out there ?

Anyone here in Europe with a new HD tv could use it but at least here in Italy there aren't any films to buy from the iTunes store, just two recently added publicity jobs by Pixar at €2.49 each and so it is difficult to imagine who would buy one.

ink · Jan 9, 2007, 05:21 PM

Originally Posted by Dork.

I agree that there's no reason for the Apple TV to have a tuner by default, because not everyone will need one. But I need the option to plug something like an EyeTV into this thing and turn it into a PVR. If I can't do that, I'll likely pass on this, too.

I couldn't care less about 1080i, since I'm perfectly happy with the resolution of my Standard Analog 30" TV.

Good luck with that; it only supports HDMI and Component.

on the PVR note; Apple had an opportunity to make the ultimate digital playback machine. They failed.

Velocity211 · Jan 9, 2007, 05:24 PM

Originally Posted by awaspaas

Is there such thing as a 4:3 tv that accepts component or HDMI?

My Sony SD tube has component inputs

KeyLimePi · Jan 9, 2007, 05:29 PM

Jeez people, Apple TV is just a way to extend Frontrow to your TV. That's it. It's not a Blu-Ray player or a Series3 TiVO or an Xbox 360 (all of which cost in excess of $500).

Dork. · Jan 9, 2007, 05:30 PM

Originally Posted by ink

Good luck with that; it only supports HDMI and Component.

Well, if I had an ideal PVR solution that I'm pretty sure will work for 5+ years, I might be tempted to splurge on a TV also. Especially since I can get at least $250-$350 for my Series 1 TiVo w/ HD upgrade, Ethernet, and Lifetime Sub to help subsidize it all. I don't wnat a big screen, 30-36" widescreen would be enough for me.

Besides, I think my SD TV can do component, but doesn't the Apple TV require widescreen?

Goldfinger · Jan 9, 2007, 05:33 PM

Originally Posted by Mike Pither

Anyone here in Europe with a new HD tv could use it but at least here in Italy there aren't any films to buy from the iTunes store, just two recently added publicity jobs by Pixar at €2.49 each and so it is difficult to imagine who would buy one.

Yeah sure. But do you know how big HDTV penetration is in Europe ? It isn't an impressive number that's for sure.

lpkmckenna · Jan 9, 2007, 05:56 PM

AppleTV seems ok, but it's kinda like QuickTime: great at what it does, but I still need VLC.

As it stands, I'm better off saving my money and keep that extra video cable dangling out from the back of my TV. Better to carry my laptop to the front room and see *all* of my content than buy AppleTV and only seeing some of it.

I could change my mind, though. Giving the Apple Remote to my grandma so she can browse thru my iPhoto library at Thanksgiving seems to be worthwhile.

shifuimam · Jan 9, 2007, 05:57 PM

Originally Posted by Dork.

Well, if I had an ideal PVR solution that I'm pretty sure will work for 5+ years, I might be tempted to splurge on a TV also. Especially since I can get at least $250-$350 for my Series 1 TiVo w/ HD upgrade, Ethernet, and Lifetime Sub to help subsidize it all. I don't wnat a big screen, 30-36" widescreen would be enough for me.

Besides, I think my SD TV can do component, but doesn't the Apple TV require widescreen?

Even if your SDTV can do component, if the AppleTV only outputs a progressive-scan, HD signal, you're out of luck...example being millennium wii incident. The AppleTV could very well only output a progressive scan signal.

I noticed the responses to the lack of DVD being that this is not a DVD player. That may be, but this is supposed to be a media player - music, movies, tv shows, etc. What's the number-one reason people have big, widescreen HDTVs? To watch movies. If someone has already spent $1500 on a big 50" widescreen HDTV, odds are, they've already amassed a pretty big DVD collection. I know I have, and I only have a 27" direct view 4:3 HDTV.

I'm not about to go buy all my DVDs on iTunes, which includes movies and several seasons of Futurama, Seinfeld, and Gilmore Girls. So, $300 for a box that only streams my music is overkill. I can get the same effect through hooking my iPod up to my home theatre system, or using an AirTunes adapter (which is also overpriced IMO). I doubt it would have cost much more to add a slot-loading DVD player to the AppleTV. At the very least, it could support connecting to DVD changer systems via USB or FireWire...

Chuckit · Jan 9, 2007, 06:00 PM

Originally Posted by shifuimam

noticed the responses to the lack of DVD being that this is not a DVD player. That may be, but this is supposed to be a media player - music, movies, tv shows, etc. What's the number-one reason people have big, widescreen HDTVs? To watch movies. If someone has already spent $1500 on a big 50" widescreen HDTV, odds are, they've already amassed a pretty big DVD collection.

And if they have amassed a pretty big DVD collection, what are the odds that they don't already have a DVD player? Did you buy all those DVDs in anticipation of the day Apple would release a DVD player?

shifuimam · Jan 9, 2007, 06:02 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

And if they have amassed a pretty big DVD collection, what are the odds that they don't already have a DVD player? Did you buy all those DVDs in anticipation of the day Apple would release a DVD player?

No, but adding a new device without removing one = more outlets, more power, more crap in my home entertainment furniture, and more remote controls.

It would have been nice if they had provided something. Perhaps someone will come out with a DVD player that fits under the AppleTV and connects via USB. I can imagine that being a very hot seller.

Chuckit · Jan 9, 2007, 06:02 PM

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna

AppleTV seems ok, but it's kinda like QuickTime: great at what it does, but I still need VLC.

As it stands, I'm better off saving my money and keep that extra video cable dangling out from the back of my TV. Better to carry my laptop to the front room and see *all* of my content than buy AppleTV and only seeing some of it.

Do you have a lot of video that can't be transcoded to work on the Apple TV?

awaspaas · Jan 9, 2007, 06:08 PM

Transcoding = quality loss, unfortunately.

lpkmckenna · Jan 9, 2007, 06:11 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

Do you have a lot of video that can't be transcoded to work on the Apple TV?

I'm not sure. I do know I have a huge amount of AVIs from family events that I made with my digital camera that I like to browse thru. Right now, I can view them without transcoding. Will they play on the AppleTV? Who knows.

ink · Jan 9, 2007, 06:17 PM

Originally Posted by KeyLimePi

Jeez people, Apple TV is just a way to extend Frontrow to your TV. That's it. It's not a Blu-Ray player or a Series3 TiVO or an Xbox 360 (all of which cost in excess of $500).

A Mac-Mini with MythTV and Linux does pretty much all of that. It's just not very integrated, is a PITA to setup the first time, and doesn't have the ideal outputs.

Chuckit · Jan 9, 2007, 06:20 PM

Originally Posted by awaspaas

Transcoding = quality loss, unfortunately.

Yeah, but it shouldn't be really noticeable transcoding to h.264. I tested it out a couple of days ago, and I couldn't tell the difference on my PowerBook.

awaspaas · Jan 9, 2007, 06:25 PM

Originally Posted by ink

A Mac-Mini with MythTV and Linux does pretty much all of that. It's just not very integrated, is a PITA to setup the first time, and doesn't have the ideal outputs.

I have that, the only thing it doesn't do is play purchased iTunes content.

osxpinot · Jan 9, 2007, 06:25 PM

The bottom line on the Apple TV is that it is overpriced. If it were $100, it'd be a pretty cool piece of hardware. That's where the price point should be. Unfortunately, it costs $300.

A lot of people with HDTVs (really the only class of consumer that could afford this thing), have HDTVs that are capable of accepting VGA, HDMI, or DVI, so why not just get Mac Mini? For only $200 more one has a fully functioning computer. Or even go back to a G4 Mini with front row and an IR sensor and you essentially have AppleTV.

Furthermore, it is incredibly disappointing that Apple included no way to actually buy content from AppleTV. You have to go to a computer to buy it. That's totally lame. Making money at selling music/movies is all about on-demand content. For Apple not to capitalize on that by putting the option of purchasing on the AppleTV is perplexing, to say the least.

Also, I'm sure that a huge number of formats are locked out on this thing. It's probably limited to quicktime supported files just like everything else Apple.

Sorry, but AppleTV seems like a huge turd.

ink · Jan 9, 2007, 06:39 PM

Originally Posted by awaspaas

I have that, the only thing it doesn't do is play purchased iTunes content.

MythTV is amazing. I was hoping Apple would offer the first consumer-level competitor to it, but... no.

Adam Betts · Jan 9, 2007, 06:45 PM

Originally Posted by osxpinot

Sorry, but AppleTV seems like a huge turd.

People said the same thing about iPod when it was first released.

osxpinot · Jan 9, 2007, 06:47 PM

Originally Posted by Adam Betts

People said the same thing about iPod when it was first released.

And your point? The iPod was revolutionary. There is nothing revolutionary about AppleTV. Big difference.

Chuckit · Jan 9, 2007, 06:51 PM

Originally Posted by osxpinot

And your point? The iPod was revolutionary. There is nothing revolutionary about AppleTV. Big difference.

People said the same thing about the iPod when it was released.

turtle777 · Jan 9, 2007, 06:54 PM

Originally Posted by osxpinot

Sorry, but AppleTV seems like a huge turd.

Or, you just don't get it.

Mac mini doesn't have HDMI outputs.

And people HATE (HATE !!!) having to have a full-blown computer in the living room.
Double updates, double backups, keeping it synced etc. AppleTV is by far a smarter solution, and cheaper than a mini.

If you think a mini could be a better substitute for AppleTV then you probably really don't need it.

-t

osxpinot · Jan 9, 2007, 06:56 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

People said the same thing about the iPod when it was released.

The iPod introduced a totally new interface to navigate through music. Furthermore, it was the first major MP3 player that didn't use a laptop hard drive and made portable enough to fit in one's pocket. That is why it is revolutionary, whether people saw it then or not.

AppleTV on the otherhand does not introduce anything that's not been done by the market. That's the big difference.

turtle777 · Jan 9, 2007, 06:58 PM

Originally Posted by shifuimam

No, but adding a new device without removing one = more outlets, more power, more crap in my home entertainment furniture, and more remote controls.

It would have been nice if they had provided something. Perhaps someone will come out with a DVD player that fits under the AppleTV and connects via USB. I can imagine that being a very hot seller.

A DVD built in at this time is dumb.

Apple should wait and put a BlueRay / HD-DVD in there once it becomes affordable. For now, it's good as it is.

-t

turtle777 · Jan 9, 2007, 07:00 PM

Originally Posted by osxpinot

AppleTV on the otherhand does not introduce anything that's not been done by the market. That's the big difference.

Really ?

I think it does. It introduces a MediaCenter w/o a computer.

-t

osxpinot · Jan 9, 2007, 07:04 PM

Originally Posted by turtle777

Or, you just don't get it.

Mac mini doesn't have HDMI outputs.

And people HATE (HATE !!!) having to have a full-blown computer in the living room.
Double updates, double backups, keeping it synced etc. AppleTV is by far a smarter solution, and cheaper than a mini.

If you think a mini could be a better substitute for AppleTV then you probably really don't need it.

-t

It is not hard to convert to HDMI, so that's really a moot point.

AppleTV is not at all a smarter solution. AppleTV is essentially a computer and it will require updates just like a computer would. Also, it isn't creating any more need to back up than an AppleTV would. Both have hard drives and both potentially need back ups. And keeping it synced??? WTF???

I can get a 1.25ghz Mini on eBay for $350 and slap on an ir sensor and wireless keyboard/mouse for $50. That's $100 more and I have a set-top box that can play DVDs, Xvid, DivX, buy movies from the TV, watch youtube or google video, and do a multitude of other things the AppleTV cannot.

osxpinot · Jan 9, 2007, 07:05 PM

Originally Posted by turtle777

Really ?

I think it does. It introduces a MediaCenter w/o a computer.

-t

have you been living in a box?

...seriously man.

ShawnDC · Jan 9, 2007, 07:09 PM

Unfortunately the Mini doesn't have the outputs that the AppleTV does - otherwise I'd buy it in a heartbeat. Unfortunately the AppleTV doesn't have all the functionality that I want (like the ability to play multiple formats of Video like VLC does) otherwise I'd buy it in a heartbeat.

The other big omission I see from this product is that there isn't some sort of on-demand video order component where you can "rent" movies to view. I'm unlikely to buy movies from the iTunes store since there are few movies that I want to watch more than once. I like the idea of being able to stream High Def movies to my TV, which could help eliminate the need for a DVD player in the long run.

Since it does have a 40G hard drive, I'm hopeful that is is just a matter of time before shareware programs come out to add more functionality to the AppleTV.

scottiB · Jan 9, 2007, 07:18 PM

Originally Posted by osxpinot

The iPod introduced a totally new interface to navigate through music. Furthermore, it was the first major MP3 player that didn't use a laptop hard drive and made portable enough to fit in one's pocket. That is why it is revolutionary, whether people saw it then or not.

AppleTV on the otherhand does not introduce anything that's not been done by the market. That's the big difference.

Do a forum search for October 2001, and you'll see how the iPod was received. Even among us Mac users, it was probably a 70 vs. 30 ratio for condemnation.

The recurring theme: the iPod doesn't introduce anything that's not been done by the market. And it's overpriced.