[Kilbey]

Originally posted by MacNStein:
Hey, can we be honest here? Please? Religion, like anything else, can and is used by mankind to further their own agendas, it just happens. It can be twisted and corrupted like any other structure.

Well said.

[torsoboy]

Originally posted by idjeff:
off topic...no offense intended, but you don't pray to the same God as Christians...

yes, he does pray to the same God as christians. There is only one God regardless of the name you give him.

[Taliesin]

Originally posted by idjeff:
off topic...no offense intended, but you don't pray to the same God as Christians...

Hmm, in the Quran, Allah, also known as God claims to have created the universe, the earth, Adam and Eve, paradise and hell, angels and djinns, and He also claims there to have sent out or inspired Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Mohammed, and numerous others as prophets and messengers of His word, and He also claimed to have sent the Quran to confirm the somewhat lost evangelium of Jesus and the ten commands of Moses and to fulfill the promise to Abraham and to complete His word for humanity.

He also promised in the Quran to recreate humanity and jinns on judgment day and to decide with mercy who comes to paradise and who comes to hell.

Sounds pretty much like the same God to me.

Taliesin

[ebuddy]

Originally posted by Taliesin:
Hmm, in the Quran, Allah, also known as God claims to have created the universe, the earth, Adam and Eve, paradise and hell, angels and djinns, and He also claims there to have sent out or inspired Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Mohammed, and numerous others as prophets and messengers of His word, and He also claimed to have sent the Quran to confirm the somewhat lost evangelium of Jesus and the ten commands of Moses and to fulfill the promise to Abraham and to complete His word for humanity.
He also promised in the Quran to recreate humanity and jinns on judgment day and to decide with mercy who comes to paradise and who comes to hell.
Sounds pretty much like the same God to me.
Taliesin

I appreciate your response Taliesin, but the suggestion was that you don't pray to the same God as the Christian. This is not to say that anyone is right or wrong so much as to mention the difference in that Christians generally pray to the Christ. They deem Jesus as the Christ and as such, pray to Him. So, technically I'd have to say in maybe just that sense-Christians and Muslims are praying to different Gods. In the creation and authorship of God, we seem to be talking about the same God ultimitely, but with some relatively major differences of opinion and doctrine.

[Sherwin]

Originally posted by MacNStein:
One thing the author left out, on the first year anniversary of the WTC attack, the NY state lottery number was 911.

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/Who...d=97845&page=1

quite a coincidence too...

Not forgetting the coincidence of 12/26 for two years. 1+2+2+6 = 11.

[Sherwin]

Originally posted by Taliesin:
Sounds pretty much like the same God to me.

No.

The Christian God had a Son.
Your god didn't.

Christianity states that Islam is wrong because the Bible is complete.
Islam states that Christianity is wrong because it's corrupted.

Christianity states that it's up to the individual whether they get into Heaven or not.
Islam states that it's up to god who gets into paradise.

How can this be the same god?

[Danoir]

Let us ponder for a moment how we know God. As I conceive of this, we cannot know God (since he is wholly other) except by his revelation to us. While Muslims and Christians are aligned on many historical points of God's interaction with humanity over the ages, Christians believe that God was most fully revealed in the god-man of Jesus Christ. Christian belief of the orthodox variety will insist upon a number of beliefs necessary to be counted among them, or in the broader sense, to be talking about the same God. As I suggested in another thread, the two most basic things are the Incarnation and Resurrection.

This point might be summed up accordingly: A hypothetical Christian might ask a hypothetical Muslim, "How can you say we worship the same God when you deny this primary act of God and most complete revelation in the person of Jesus?"

In the end, it matter very little for the point of this conversation. We have already derailed from the topic of hand which is the 'Christian response to the tsunami'. Again, with all respect to our Muslim friend who maintains that the Christian and Muslim conception of God is one and the same, I believe the question was directed at Christians because the author understood there to be a difference between them on this one. If he didn't, he could have just as easily addressed his question to monotheists in general, or at least included Jews in it. He did not.

D

[undotwa]

Originally posted by Danoir:
Let us ponder for a moment how we know God. As I conceive of this, we cannot know God (since he is wholly other) except by his revelation to us. While Muslims and Christians are aligned on many historical points of God's interaction with humanity over the ages, Christians believe that God was most fully revealed in the god-man of Jesus Christ. Christian belief of the orthodox variety will insist upon a number of beliefs necessary to be counted among them, or in the broader sense, to be talking about the same God. As I suggested in another thread, the two most basic things are the Incarnation and Resurrection.

This point might be summed up accordingly: A hypothetical Christian might ask a hypothetical Muslim, "How can you say we worship the same God when you deny this primary act of God and most complete revelation in the person of Jesus?"

In the end, it matter very little for the point of this conversation. We have already derailed from the topic of hand which is the 'Christian response to the tsunami'. Again, with all respect to our Muslim friend who maintains that the Christian and Muslim conception of God is one and the same, I believe the question was directed at Christians because the author understood there to be a difference between them on this one. If he didn't, he could have just as easily addressed his question to monotheists in general, or at least included Jews in it. He did not.

D

You have an awesome sig! St Augstine rocks!

[barang]

On another note, when God promised not to ever flood the earth again (rainbows are supposed to demonstrate his promise), did he mean the whole earth, a significant portion or just any random large section? [/B]

God meant the entire earth. He promised he would never wipe out the earth entirley with water.

And in answer to those who ask why God would allow such a thing as this tsunami to happen, didn't God create us and the entire world? He has a right to do with us whatever he pleases.

We all deserve to be in hell for eternity. Every day that we spend out of hell is pure grace. Rather than asking why God would allow a disaster to happen, we should wonder why God has allowed us to remain living for so long without giving us that which we deserve.

[Mithras]

Originally posted by barang:
We all deserve to be in hell for eternity. Every day that we spend out of hell is pure grace. Rather than asking why God would allow a disaster to happen, we should wonder why God has allowed us to remain living for so long without giving us that which we deserve.

It's this charming attitude that makes the Christian stand up and walk tall, fighting for a better life here on Earth.

[qnxde]

Originally posted by Mithras:
It's this charming attitude that makes the Christian stand up and walk tall, fighting for a better life here on Earth.

Really, I always attributed it to the majority of them having a 10 foot pole shoved up their collective arses.

[idjeff]

Originally posted by qnxde:
Really, I always attributed it to the majority of them having a 10 foot pole shoved up their collective arses.

Wow! Such hatred.

[Taliesin]

Originally posted by ebuddy:
I appreciate your response Taliesin, but the suggestion was that you don't pray to the same God as the Christian. This is not to say that anyone is right or wrong so much as to mention the difference in that Christians generally pray to the Christ. They deem Jesus as the Christ and as such, pray to Him. So, technically I'd have to say in maybe just that sense-Christians and Muslims are praying to different Gods. In the creation and authorship of God, we seem to be talking about the same God ultimitely, but with some relatively major differences of opinion and doctrine.

Ah, I see, but on the other hand we are still praying to the same God: Christians only seem to believe that that same God muslims, jews and christians are praying to has made a showing on earth in the form of Jesus.

So, even if christians are praying to Jesus, they really pray to God, who they think has paid a visit to earth in a human form, eventhough for muslims this is a clear misunderstanding.

I think and hope for all christians that God sees it similar and forgives that misunderstanding and accepts the prayers to Jesus as prayers to Him.

Taliesin

[Taliesin]

Originally posted by Sherwin:
No.

The Christian God had a Son.
Your god didn't.

Christianity states that Islam is wrong because the Bible is complete.
Islam states that Christianity is wrong because it's corrupted.

Christianity states that it's up to the individual whether they get into Heaven or not.
Islam states that it's up to god who gets into paradise.

How can this be the same god?

Easy: Human misunderstanding on part of the christian church.

Taliesin

[Salah al-Din]

Originally posted by Taliesin:
I think and hope for all christians that God sees it similar and forgives that misunderstanding and accepts the prayers to Jesus as prayers to Him.

Taliesin

[Taliesin]

Originally posted by Danoir:
Let us ponder for a moment how we know God. As I conceive of this, we cannot know God (since he is wholly other) except by his revelation to us. While Muslims and Christians are aligned on many historical points of God's interaction with humanity over the ages, Christians believe that God was most fully revealed in the god-man of Jesus Christ. Christian belief of the orthodox variety will insist upon a number of beliefs necessary to be counted among them, or in the broader sense, to be talking about the same God. As I suggested in another thread, the two most basic things are the Incarnation and Resurrection.

This point might be summed up accordingly: A hypothetical Christian might ask a hypothetical Muslim, "How can you say we worship the same God when you deny this primary act of God and most complete revelation in the person of Jesus?"

In the end, it matter very little for the point of this conversation. We have already derailed from the topic of hand which is the 'Christian response to the tsunami'. Again, with all respect to our Muslim friend who maintains that the Christian and Muslim conception of God is one and the same, I believe the question was directed at Christians because the author understood there to be a difference between them on this one. If he didn't, he could have just as easily addressed his question to monotheists in general, or at least included Jews in it. He did not.

D

I will only answer the last point of your post as I have discussed the other points in my replies to ebuddy and Sherwin:

Why he posed the question exclusively to christians? I thought he did so, because he wanted to ask americans, who are mostly christians, no?

Taliesin