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one09jason · Dec 3, 2002, 03:31 PM

To improve my chances of getting a PowerBook as soon as possible, I ordered from two places. One retailer, and the other through the Apple Store online. I'm getting the same price through both places. I have just been notified that a PB has come in through the non-apple retailer. The order from the Apple Store will probably be another 2 weeks waiting.

But from reading the posts here in the past few days, I see there's the possiblity of the PB that is ready having one of the mentioned issues (green line, excessive fan noise). Should I take my chances and accept the one that's come today, or should I play it safe and wait until the Apple store sends one that will likely be manufacured after Sean's magic 12/6 cutoff date?

Not to beat a dead horese, but I'd appreciate your input all.

lokjah · Dec 3, 2002, 03:36 PM

i would say that you would be ok and see how the book you get is, i got a defective tibook and am now waiting for a replacement, but mine didnt have the fan issue, and i didnt get to see if it had a green line because i didnt get to try a dvd.

now that you are aware that some of the books have these bugs, as soon as you get yours check it and make sure youre ok, if something is up, call apple immediately, ie the same day you get it.

but as sean mentioned it only occured on some and not all books.

l�k

jersey · Dec 3, 2002, 03:48 PM

yeah, (as i just posted in another thread)
ordered mine on the 6th, it shipped on the 22 and i dont have the green line nor do i have the annoying fan on the right side.

StiZeven · Dec 3, 2002, 04:14 PM

MacMall has over 100 of them in stock (1GHz, SuperDrive, 60GB and 1GB of RAM after the free promo). Why not just order it now and have it (TAX free) tomorrow!

craigthomas · Dec 3, 2002, 04:35 PM

This will decrease your chances of getting your PB sooner, but will increase your chances of saving $235.00. 1st call the Apple Store and say that you want to utilize the "Friends and Family" discount from Lockeed Martin. They do not ask the employee's name. They will probably need to cancel your previous order and establish a new order with the discount. I got the same discount from an employee at Apple. Here's the deal you can get:

PBG4 15.2/1GHZ/1GIGRAM/60/SD/AP/LL: $2,804.00

Compare at $3,039.00 without Friends and Family (includes the double your ram deal).

I know two people who got this deal.

x · Dec 3, 2002, 04:46 PM

i tried to do a search on the magic 12/6 cutoff, but couldn't find anything on it. what was it about?

about the friends and family deal, why not just get it from a reseller that doesn't charge tax? it should end up about the same plus it would all be legit and you wouldn't have any problems contacting apple for support.

craigthomas · Dec 3, 2002, 04:49 PM

MacMall charges tax (at least in CA it does).

Podolsky · Dec 3, 2002, 04:50 PM

Originally posted by craigthomas:
This will decrease your chances of getting your PB sooner, but will increase your chances of saving $235.00. 1st call the Apple Store and say that you want to utilize the "Friends and Family" discount from Lockeed Martin. They do not ask the employee's name. They will probably need to cancel your previous order and establish a new order with the discount. I got the same discount from an employee at Apple. Here's the deal you can get:

PBG4 15.2/1GHZ/1GIGRAM/60/SD/AP/LL: $2,804.00

Compare at $3,039.00 without Friends and Family (includes the double your ram deal).

I know two people who got this deal.

I was offered this same hardware from Apple PLUS a free printer through the education store - you just need to have a kid in school and you can only buy one desktop and one laptop per year. I just got an eMac at a great price and I am getting the combo PowerBook for $2569. Personally, I wouldn't want to get a Lockheed discount unless I was eligible. But, I'm not going to breathe hell fire and brimstone on anyone's dreams of Powerbook Price Point Heaven......

craigthomas · Dec 3, 2002, 05:04 PM

Originally posted by x:
i tried to do a search on the magic 12/6 cutoff, but couldn't find anything on it. what was it about?

about the friends and family deal, why not just get it from a reseller that doesn't charge tax? it should end up about the same plus it would all be legit and you wouldn't have any problems contacting apple for support.

It is not "ligit" if you get a computer without paying sales tax and you live in a state that has sales tax, and you don't pay the state "use tax". Not that big of a deal unless you are a business, which I am. I know people who have been audited for this reason and charged interest plus the tax. It is a chance that may work out, but has some bad outcome potential from the State Board of Equalization.

If you get a computer from the "Friends and Family" deal the computer is in your name and would be serviced as normal if something should go wrong with it. It goes on your credit card and Apple sees no difference in the transaction. The invoice is in your name with no association to the F&F member. I have received many computers from Apple employees under promo and the F&F discounts. Again, two people I know got the discount.

If you are in a hurry, find a reseller and get it tax free. Probably fine, but definately not "ligit".

lokjah · Dec 3, 2002, 05:16 PM

i think that x means ordering from an out of state reseller, ie macwarehouse macmall, etc. there is no tax on an out of state purchase with most vendors.

confirming of course as you stated that you dont live in the state where the re seller is.

l�k

Originally posted by craigthomas:

It is not "ligit" if you get a computer without paying sales tax and you live in a state that has sales tax, and you don't pay the state "use tax". Not that big of a deal unless you are a business, which I am. I know people who have been audited for this reason and charged interest plus the tax. It is a chance that may work out, but has some bad outcome potential from the State Board of Equalization.

If you get a computer from the "Friends and Family" deal the computer is in your name and would be serviced as normal if something should go wrong with it. It goes on your credit card and Apple sees no difference in the transaction. The invoice is in your name with no association to the F&F member. I have received many computers from Apple employees under promo and the F&F discounts. Again, two people I know got the discount.

If you are in a hurry, find a reseller and get it tax free. Probably fine, but definately not "ligit".

wallinbl · Dec 3, 2002, 05:22 PM

Originally posted by x:
about the friends and family deal, why not just get it from a reseller that doesn't charge tax? it should end up about the same plus it would all be legit and you wouldn't have any problems contacting apple for support.

You are still required to remit sales tax to the state you reside in. The business selling it is just not required to collect it on your behalf.

Sales tax is actually the responsibility of the purchaser. It has become generally accepted practice for the seller to collect and remit sales tax. In the cases of mail order and internet sales, it is considered to be too much of a burden to require a seller to maintain current information on all of the sales tax jurisdictions. However, the purchaser is still obligated to remit the appropriate taxes to the appropriate taxing authority (generally the state, which will then pay the appropriate county portions to the counties).

craigthomas · Dec 3, 2002, 05:26 PM

Originally posted by lokjah:
i think that x means ordering from an out of state reseller, ie macwarehouse macmall, etc. there is no tax on an out of state purchase with most vendors.

confirming of course as you stated that you dont live in the state where the re seller is.

l�k

If you live in a state with sales tax, and you order from a state that does not have sales tax, and they don't charge you sales tax, you still need to pay it to your state. It's called "use tax" and many businesses have been audited and penalized for this.

wallinbl · Dec 3, 2002, 05:27 PM

Originally posted by StiZeven:
MacMall has over 100 of them in stock (1GHz, SuperDrive, 60GB and 1GB of RAM after the free promo). Why not just order it now and have it (TAX free) tomorrow!

If the RAM is free, how come I have to pay $39.99 extra to get it? You can get some free software for only $9.99 as well. I really don't care for places that play games like that.

lokjah · Dec 3, 2002, 05:31 PM

huh, i didnt know about that, is there actually any states that dont have sales tax?

Originally posted by craigthomas:

If you live in a state with sales tax, and you order from a state that does not have sales tax, and they don't charge you sales tax, you still need to pay it to your state. It's called "use tax" and many businesses have been audited and penalized for this.

craigthomas · Dec 3, 2002, 05:42 PM

Montana (my mom lives there), and any reseller that doesn't charge sales tax is in a state that doesn't charge sales tax. MacZone and MacWarehouse are in states that do not charge sales tax. MacMall is in CA I believe, so they do charge.

You can imagine companies that buy hundreds or more systems can save an enormous amount of money by buying out of state and not paying the government.

lokjah · Dec 3, 2002, 05:50 PM

yeah i can imagine, i definetely see your point.

l�k

Originally posted by craigthomas:
Montana (my mom lives there), and any reseller that doesn't charge sales tax is in a state that doesn't charge sales tax. MacZone and MacWarehouse are in states that do not charge sales tax. MacMall is in CA I believe, so they do charge.

You can imagine companies that buy hundreds or more systems can save an enormous amount of money by buying out of state and not paying the government.

StiZeven · Dec 3, 2002, 05:54 PM

You only pay sales tax if the vendor you are dealing with has a presence in your particular state. For example, Dell does not sell their computers through retail stores like CompUSA so they only charge sales tax to those who live in Texas since that is where Dell is located. MacMall is located in California so whoever lives in that state must pay sales tax on their orders. I live in NYC, so I don't pay sales tax on MacMall orders (and so on).

The government takes enough of my Pay Check so unless they are looking for it, they are NOT getting a dime from me when it comes to out-of-state purchasing. The government should not be receiving a cut from personal sales in the first place, so there is no moral issue.

So Montana has no sales tax at all? NICE!

craigthomas · 06:30 PM

double post, please excuse.

craigthomas · Dec 3, 2002, 06:27 PM

Agree about the gov taking too much. It's tough to write that quarterly check that is a third of my small business income to the Fed. However, just a warning, if you do not want to pay state use tax, you could get busted (if you are a business that is). Don't really need to worry if you are not a business. And if you get busted by the State Board expect to be audited by the Fed. They share.

Morally, there may something to be said for funding issues that sales tax helps in your community. One Powerbook will not make a difference, but for a company that spends mucho I think there may be good reasons for sales tax support.

one09jason · Dec 3, 2002, 07:00 PM

I'd like to steer this topic back to the original question.

Do I take a chance on buying a PowerBook from the first production run that may have problems, or should I wait a few weeks and get one from the second batch wherer the problems are supposed to have been fixed (after 12/6)? I can do either, and I have to make the choice tomorrow.

What do you think I should do?

Podolsky · Dec 3, 2002, 07:06 PM

Originally posted by one09jason:
I'd like to steer this topic back to the original question.

Do I take a chance on buying a PowerBook from the first production run that may have problems, or should I wait a few weeks and get one from the second batch wherer the problems are supposed to have been fixed (after 12/6)? I can do either, and I have to make the choice tomorrow.

What do you think I should do?

If it is true, as I read here and on other forums, that production 12/6 will integrate some attractive, minor improvements, than it may be worth the wait. But timing may be tricky in that there may be pre 12/6 books in the pipeline that will lag through the channel. What I think you want and what I know I want is a book with a build date after the production shift.........

craigthomas · Dec 3, 2002, 11:44 PM

I'll see if I can get some insider info on this subject. Can't promise.

lokjah · Dec 3, 2002, 11:51 PM

well in your first post you say you want it as soon as possible.

then thats your answer.

or you need to re evaluate your wants/needs.

if you want it now then get it now.

if you want to be sure you get one past the dec6 run then you will probably have to wait.

and as said above, it will require you to make positive on the fact that the book you are ordering is in fact one that has the production issues addressed.

but as its been mentioned many many times, not ALL powerbooks exhibit this behaviour. the vast majority of users here on the forum have great machines.

if you want to be positive i would wait. if you need it now then you need it now.

l�k

Originally posted by one09jason:
I'd like to steer this topic back to the original question.

Do I take a chance on buying a PowerBook from the first production run that may have problems, or should I wait a few weeks and get one from the second batch wherer the problems are supposed to have been fixed (after 12/6)? I can do either, and I have to make the choice tomorrow.

What do you think I should do?

x · 02:25 PM

something just occured to me, could those 12/6 PBs be the ones that will not boot into OS 9 and presumably be sold next year?

craigthomas · Dec 4, 2002, 02:28 PM

Originally posted by x:
something just occured to me, could those 12/6 PBs be the ones that will not boot in OS 9 and presumably be sold next year?

I doubt that highly. The next major wave of PBs, due out next year, will be very different, and will follow with no OS 9 booting. Today's Tibooks are small upgrades in the big picture, with changes mostly in processors and drives, which is why they boot in 9.

x · Dec 4, 2002, 03:06 PM

Originally posted by craigthomas:

...The next major wave of PBs, due out next year, will be very different, and will follow with no OS 9 booting. Today's Tibooks are small upgrades in the big picture, with changes mostly in processors and drives, which is why they boot in 9.

That is pretty obvious.

But will Apple release a major PB redesign in January? Most likely not. Will they keep Macs sold starting next year from booting into OS 9? Probably, that's what they said several months ago.

And they certainly don't need a major redesign to keep people from booting into OS 9. A firmware update should do it.

craigthomas · Dec 4, 2002, 03:25 PM

The new PBs will not be ready in Jan. Mid-year is best case.

According to Apple the decision to not allow booting in OS 9 is due to the extra work involved to make it possible in developing new products, not to just prohibit it. I don't see any reason to take the existing hardware/software and change it purely to disallow booting in OS 9. Unless I am giving Apple too much credit and they are trying to move more people over to X with this decision. I really don't think so, but time will only tell.

one09jason · Dec 4, 2002, 11:05 PM

Made my decision. I'm waiting. I hope I'm not being paranoid. I'm going to wait for the PowerBook that is still "being assembled" as of today 12/4. Perhaps I'll get a PB produced after the 12/6 cutoff. We'll see, I suppose.

lokjah · Dec 4, 2002, 11:51 PM

my replacement sd tibook is in the same stage as yours so hopefully we will get pristine machines

l�k

Originally posted by one09jason:
Made my decision. I'm waiting. I hope I'm not being paranoid. I'm going to wait for the PowerBook that is still "being assembled" as of today 12/4. Perhaps I'll get a PB produced after the 12/6 cutoff. We'll see, I suppose.

one09jason · Dec 5, 2002, 11:09 AM

Well, I decided to wait, but it did me no good. Apple shipped the PowerBook today 12/5. Man, what's with this company anyway? You can't even count on them to make you wait a gool long while for a new release anymore. Jeez, a mere 3 weeks. Apple's loosing it's touch.

Anyway, now I have two PBs on their way to me, and I have to return one of them. One shipped to me around 12/1, the other 12/5. Suppose there's any difference between the two? Should I hold one hand over each box and see if I can get a good vibe?

lokjah · Dec 5, 2002, 12:52 PM

lol thats a tough decision. too bad you cant find a way to try out each one.

l�k

Originally posted by one09jason:
Well, I decided to wait, but it did me no good. Apple shipped the PowerBook today 12/5. Man, what's with this company anyway? You can't even count on them to make you wait a gool long while for a new release anymore. Jeez, a mere 3 weeks. Apple's loosing it's touch.

Anyway, now I have two PBs on their way to me, and I have to return one of them. One shipped to me around 12/1, the other 12/5. Suppose there's any difference between the two? Should I hold one hand over each box and see if I can get a good vibe?

Corinthian · Dec 5, 2002, 01:01 PM

As a few of you have addressed of the problem with the fan and something called Green Line, how can I check them up with my PowerBook 1Ghz, and if there are problems, who should I contact?
Thanks so much!

graphics84 · Dec 5, 2002, 01:10 PM

I see 12/6 getting thrown around a lot... something about a green line and loud fan???

please explain.

I'm about to buy a Ti 1gig... it's the 5th and I'm having a hard time waiting till my original planned purchase date of the10th... but it sounds like there is an extra incentive to wait

let me know

lokjah · Dec 5, 2002, 02:08 PM

theres alot of threads regarding the green line and fan issues, as per seanyepez we have the info that apple will be addressing these issues in the production line as of tomorrow (6th) . not all of the first generation sd books have these issues, just some. so its really up to you, order it, if you need it now, if you dont need it right now order it next week.

l�k

workerbee · Dec 5, 2002, 02:24 PM

Originally posted by graphics84:
I see 12/6 getting thrown around a lot... something about a green line and loud fan???

please explain.

Look for seanyepez' first post in this thread.