[mitchell_pgh]

Originally Posted by Eug 

If I owned one of those early $$$$ Blu-ray standalones without PIP and which are not upgradable to include PIP, I'd be majorly p!ssed. WTF were they thinking anyway?

EDIT:

Here is a quote from a Blu-ray insider:

"It's not a BD-J issue at all. Secondary video was one of the last features added to the Blu-ray specification (perhaps in response to it being part of the HD DVD specification, but I wasn't present at discussions to know the motivation). The BDA put higher mandatory performance requirements on the secondary video, in effect requiring it to support the same specs as primary video (HD DVD has greatly reduced bandwidth requirements for secondary video). As a result the first generation chipsets from Broadcom and Sigma which had already been designed into most of the standalone players were unable to meet these specs, hence the "BD-Video 1.0" profile was permitted until a date by which most thought it would be feasible to produce 1.1 players. More recently, in response to apparent difficulties in meeting the June deadline, the date was pushed back to the end of October."

Ouch.

It wouldn't bother me at all. PIP IMHO is a novelty. I'm sure there are people out there that would disagree, but for me, if it never had PIP, I'd be fine.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by mitchell_pgh 

It wouldn't bother me at all. PIP IMHO is a novelty. I'm sure there are people out there that would disagree, but for me, if it never had PIP, I'd be fine.

Sure, but directors commentary is going to start being PIP. It already is on HD-DVD...

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally Posted by goMac 

Sure, but directors commentary is going to start being PIP. It already is on HD-DVD...

I guess I could see that being a bump up from the current DVD format, but it wouldn't completely change things for me.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by mitchell_pgh 

It wouldn't bother me at all. PIP IMHO is a novelty. I'm sure there are people out there that would disagree, but for me, if it never had PIP, I'd be fine.

Yes, there are many who would disagree. In fact I suspect this is why Blu-ray is now incorporating it.

So...

* The Blu-ray manufacturers didn't want this included because it would be more expensive to implement, so they left it out of the spec.
* HD DVD made it mandatory, so all players had it.
* Blu-ray panicked and added it to the spec at the last minute, but by then it was too late to put it in the spec for 1st generation players.
* HD DVDs came out with PIP commentaries from neutral studios. The corresponding Blu-ray discs had no PIP commentary at all (eg. Batman Begins, Mission Impossible: III)
* Blu-ray fans started to grumble at the missing content. (And yes this happened. Just check the AVS Forums.)
+ Blu-ray re-prioritized implementation of PIP support to make sure it indeed does get implemented, but 1st generation Blu-ray standalone owners are left out in the cold.

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Yes, there are many who would disagree. In fact I suspect this is why Blu-ray is now incorporating it.

So...

* The Blu-ray manufacturers didn't want this included because it would be more expensive to implement, so they left it out of the spec.
* HD DVD made it mandatory, so all players had it.
* Blu-ray panicked and added it to the spec at the last minute, but by then it was too late to put it in the spec for 1st generation players.
* HD DVDs came out with PIP commentaries from neutral studios. The corresponding Blu-ray discs had no PIP commentary at all (eg. Batman Begins, Mission Impossible: III)
* Blu-ray fans started to grumble at the missing content. (And yes this happened. Just check the AVS Forums.)
+ Blu-ray re-prioritized implementation of PIP support to make sure it indeed does get implemented, but 1st generation Blu-ray standalone owners are left out in the cold.

Interesting. I guess I don't but too much value on the PIP feature. Mountains out of molehills IMHO. I'm sure true movie junkies will disagree.

[icruise]

Honestly, it sounds to me that both formats are scrambling to make up for their deficiencies, and they're probably both going to leave some early adopters behind (which is too bad). I think Blu-ray probably has a better chance of implementing things like PiP than HD-DVD has of actually realizing the increases in storage capacity that they've been working on, though.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

[QUOTE=goMac;3338311]

Originally Posted by mitchell_pgh 

Interesting. I guess I don't but too much value on the PIP feature. Mountains out of molehills IMHO. I'm sure true movie junkies will disagree.

I for one will never use it. Ever. My $4000 TV didn't even have it.

At any rate keep in mind that BR already DOES do PIP it just cheats by making 2 versions of the film one with and one without and it works on all current hardware. They can do this because they got double the storage over HD-DVD so why not?

The only advantage to this java version is to save space.... they don't need it though.

EVEN IF they don't have the room to do this on one 50GB disk they can easily throw in a second "Special features" disk. Actually it has already been done and upcoming tiles are double disks also not because they need the room but because it adds a couple bucks extra to the manufacturer but then they can sell it as a "Two disk special edition" and charge more for it. They did it with DVD's for the past 8 years and nobody has cared yet.

[Kenneth]

So what's so important about PIP?

[Eug]

Originally Posted by icruise 

Honestly, it sounds to me that both formats are scrambling to make up for their deficiencies, and they're probably both going to leave some early adopters behind (which is too bad). I think Blu-ray probably has a better chance of implementing things like PiP than HD-DVD has of actually realizing the increases in storage capacity that they've been working on, though.

That doesn't make sense. Blu-ray has already said they likely can't implement PIP on 1st generation standalone players. The way they are going to accomplish this is by orphaning those people. Luckily for Blu-ray, the numbers of Blu-ray standalone owners is quite small. Maybe the uber-expensive price of these players worked in Blu-ray's favour, since most Blu-ray owners just got the PS3, whether they wanted a console or not.

In contrast, triple-layer HD DVD has already been demoed using existing drives (with I believe firmware mods). That said, I don't see it ever being implemented in standalone players. It's not even part of the HD DVD spec, nor has it even been submitted for consideration to be part of the spec (as of yet).

P.S. FWIW, Ben Waggoner claims it is possible to create a 30 GB HD DVD with LOTR: ROTK extended edition (over 4 hours), with excellent video and audio quality. He states it could have a single TrueHD track, with a couple of alternate Dolby Digital Plus tracks. However, he also says there would be little room left over for any HD extras. Those would have to go on a second disc. I guess it likely wouldn't have a PIP track either.

Also, IIRC, he said it wouldn't have been possible early last year, since their encoding methods were not mature enough. Now though they've tweaked the audio and video encoding software and authoring tools enough to make this quite feasible.

That's another reason (besides cost) I think triple-layer HD DVD will never see the light of day.

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

I for one will never use it. Ever. My $4000 TV didn't even have it.

The point is not to include it on the TV, but on the player.

At any rate keep in mind that BR already DOES do PIP it just cheats by making 2 versions of the film one with and one without and it works on all current hardware. They can do this because they got double the storage over HD-DVD so why not?

The only advantage to this java version is to save space.... they don't need it though.

If they don't need it, then why are they doing it, and why did they to as far as to issue a press release giving a target date?

Despite your protests that it isn't needed, the Blu-ray Association felt it was an important enough feature to screw their early adopters over.

Ironically, I'm not even a huge fan of PIP either. I like it for some stuff, but could live without it, although I do consider it a bonus. However, it's clear that some people really want it, especially now that they've seen it done already on several several HD DVDs.

[icruise]

Originally Posted by Eug 

That doesn't make sense. Blu-ray has already said they likely can't implement PIP on 1st generation standalone players. The way they are going to accomplish this is by orphaning those people.

Um, isn't that precisely what I said? Blu-ray is going to screw its early adopters to get things like PIP, and if HD-DVD really wants to up its storage space, it's going to have to screw its early adopters. I think we agree here.

[Eug]

My point was that I don't think HD DVD is "scrambling" to get TL45 or TL51. It was a tech demo, but similar to the tech demos of 200 GB Blu-ray, IMO. If they were "scrambling" then we would already have a formal submission to the DVD Forum for consideration of triple-layer by now. That AFAIK, has not happened, despite the fact that TL45 was demo'd a very long time ago.

Furthermore, the fact that now authoring tools make four hour movies feasible on HD30, the whole thing about triple-layer is now moot.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Eug 

P.S. FWIW, Ben Waggoner claims it is possible to create a 30 GB HD DVD with LOTR: ROTK extended edition (over 4 hours), with excellent video and audio quality. He states it could have a single TrueHD track, with a couple of alternate Dolby Digital Plus tracks. However, he also says there would be little room left over for any HD extras. Those would have to go on a second disc. I guess it likely wouldn't have a PIP track either.

Compression is so good these days I'm really not sure size is going to be much of an issue. 30 gigs is more than adequate for an HD movie.

[Jawbone54]

This whole thread has left me in the dust for the last 20 pages.

I'd consider myself a slightly above-average consumer when it comes to the HD-DVD/BluRay wars, and I think most people think of this the way that I do: I'm waiting until one side wins before I make my choice. I don't care about the technology; I care about the movies. Wherever they are in 12 months, I'll be.

Everyone's waiting it out.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by Kenneth 

So what's so important about PIP?

It is important now that HD-DVD backers know BR doesn't' have it as yet and makes a nice distraction to the poor studio support and sales of HD.

The Decent on BR has PIP and I can't watch more than a few minutes as it is a snooze. I want the damn movie in top quality and that is it.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by goMac 

Compression is so good these days I'm really not sure size is going to be much of an issue. 30 gigs is more than adequate for an HD movie.

Like the King Kong on HD?

[Eug]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

Like the King Kong on HD?

I have King Kong on HD. The image quality is STELLAR, and it has a 1.5 Mbps Dolby Digital Plus track (for the main audio track), as well as some PIP features.

In fact, it was called "frame perfect" by one professional film restorer, and it continues to get rave reviews for both its audio and its video.

So, yes like King Kong on HD, which BTW, used a much less mature set of encoding and authoring tools than what is available now.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by goMac 

Compression is so good these days I'm really not sure size is going to be much of an issue. 30 gigs is more than adequate for an HD movie.

Originally Posted by Eug 

I have King Kong on HD. The image quality is STELLAR, and it has a 1.5 Mbps Dolby Digital Plus track (for the main audio track), as well as some PIP features.

I'm sure it does LOOK perfect but I do remember YOU saying the disk was full to the brim and they had to comprimise on audio and features because of it.

"As I ponder the HD disc format war, my greatest concern with HD DVD is its ability to convey very long films while maintaining high quality. On more than one occasion I asked, Is 30 GB enough? With a runtime of 188 minutes, Peter Jackson’s King Kong suggests an answer: yes, but there’s a price to pay. This HD DVD has highly limited supplements and no lossless audio format. I have no doubt that the content decisions were driven by the need to budget the bits for the feature film. Universal could have included a supplement disc, as Paramount did with its Mission Impossible III HD DVD release. Alas, that’s not the case; perhaps further affected by the decision to set a $40 SRP, the studio likely didn’t want to drive the price too high by including a second disc. But the presentation of the film is exceptional, perhaps the best I’ve experienced on high definition disc. So I’m confident that long, visually dense films can be contained on one dual-layer HD DVD without compromising quality. But before I describe the viewing experience, let’s first examine Peter Jackson’s work."

http://movies.yahoo.com/mv/dvd/revie...403120001.html

So in other words 30 Gigs is JUST enough on long movies if you want top notch. Looks like there are going to be some more compromises or dual disks for future long movies on HD.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

I'm sure it does LOOK perfect but I do remember YOU saying the disk was full to the brim and they had to comprimise on audio and features because of it.

"As I ponder the HD disc format war, my greatest concern with HD DVD is its ability to convey very long films while maintaining high quality. On more than one occasion I asked, Is 30 GB enough? With a runtime of 188 minutes, Peter Jackson’s King Kong suggests an answer: yes, but there’s a price to pay. This HD DVD has highly limited supplements and no lossless audio format. I have no doubt that the content decisions were driven by the need to budget the bits for the feature film. Universal could have included a supplement disc, as Paramount did with its Mission Impossible III HD DVD release. Alas, that’s not the case; perhaps further affected by the decision to set a $40 SRP, the studio likely didn’t want to drive the price too high by including a second disc. But the presentation of the film is exceptional, perhaps the best I’ve experienced on high definition disc. So I’m confident that long, visually dense films can be contained on one dual-layer HD DVD without compromising quality. But before I describe the viewing experience, let’s first examine Peter Jackson’s work."

King Kong - HD DVD DVD Review at Yahoo! Movies

So in other words 30 Gigs is JUST enough on long movies if you want top notch. Looks like there are going to be some more compromises or dual disks for future long movies on HD.

Hey, you were the one that said there's no problem putting extras on a separate disc.

As for audio, I already posted that Ben Waggoner said that 4 hour movies can look great yet still have a TrueHD main track.

How is this possible, if say King Kong "only" had a Dolby Digital Plus 1.5 Mbps track? Well, it turns out TrueHD 5.1 is only around 1.5 Mbps. So in actual fact, using Dolby Digital Plus at 1.5 Mbps is very generous in terms of bits, since it's a very efficient compression algorithm (theoretically better than both DTS and DD), but capable of using higher bitrates than DD. IOW, in terms of bits used, you could have easily gone with 1.5 Mbps TrueHD.



The main advantage here that Blu-ray would have for long movies would be:

1) Multiple lossless audio tracks. <-- I don't see this as a big deal, since I watch in the original audio track anyway.
2) 24-bit / 48 KHz audio or 24-bit / 96 KHz audio (which I think is pointless).
3) Lots of extras on the same disc.

The biggest benefit there is multiple lossless audio tracks. On long movies the audio would be limited to say one 1.5 Mbps main audio track and then a few lower bitrate alternate tracks. On Blu-ray you could use 3 TrueHD tracks if you wanted to.

[Kenneth]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

It is important now that HD-DVD backers know BR doesn't' have it as yet and makes a nice distraction to the poor studio support and sales of HD.

The Decent on BR has PIP and I can't watch more than a few minutes as it is a snooze. I want the damn movie in top quality and that is it.

Alright, I guess I don't need that PIP feature then.

[- - e r i k - -]

Somebody just pick a winner already. *yawn*

[goMac]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

The Decent on BR has PIP and I can't watch more than a few minutes as it is a snooze. I want the damn movie in top quality and that is it.

Um. How do you watch PIP on Bluray when your Bluray player doesn't support PIP?

[Eug]

Originally Posted by goMac 

Um. How do you watch PIP on Bluray when your Bluray player doesn't support PIP?

That disc has two copies of the movie, one with a commentary video hard-encoded right into the main video.

Lionsgate is the only company that does this AFAIK.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Eug 

That disc has two copies of the movie, one with a commentary video hard-encoded right into the main video.

Lionsgate is the only company that does this AFAIK.

Oh. So instead of taking the elegant solution, Bluray uses the Microsoft approach, solution by inefficiency. No wonder Bluray people are so big on the capacity, they certainly know how to waste it...

[Eug]

Originally Posted by goMac 

Oh. So instead of taking the elegant solution, Bluray uses the Microsoft approach, solution by inefficiency. No wonder Bluray people are so big on the capacity, they certainly know how to waste it...

The ironic part of that statement is that Microsoft is heavily pushing HD DVD (although Microsoft supports both hi-def formats).

[Eug]

So here are the April -> July HD DVD releases.

April

# Good Shepherd (C) (day & date)
# Smokin' Aces (C) (day & date)
# Payback: Straight, The Director’s Cut
# A Scanner Darkly
# Dog Day Afternoon
# School for Scoundrels
# The Game
# The Jerk
# Feast
# Freedom Writers (day & date)
# Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind
# Nutty Professor
# Failure to Launch

May

# The Ultimate Matrix Collection
# The Complete Matrix Trilogy
# Dreamgirls (day & date)
# 40-Year Old Virgin Unrated
# Flags of Our Fathers: Special Collector’s Edition
# The Hitcher (C) (day & date)
# Mission: Impossible
# Mission: Impossible 2
# Black Christmas (2006)
# Harsh Times
# The Battle of the Bulge
# The Road Warrior
# The Fountain
# Smokey & the Bandit
# Alpha Dog (C) (day & date)
# The Skeleton Key
# The River
# Midnight Run
# The Frighteners
# Dragonheart
# The Big Lebowski
# Lost in Translation

June

# Bruce Almighty
# Liar Liar
# Coming To America
# Born on the 4th of July
# Daylight
# The Meaning of Life
# Freedom: Vol.1
# Yes Live in Montreux
# Santana: Hymns for Peace
# Deep Purple: They all Came Down to Montreux
# Sneakers
# Trading Places
# Meet Joe Black
# Being John Malkovich
# Mystery Men
# American Me
# The Watcher
# Bulletproof
# Mallrats

July

# Shaun of the Dead
# Billy Madison
# Cat in the Hat
# The Untouchables
# The Warriors
# Dante’s Peak
# The War
# The Wedding Date
# The Bourne Identity
# In Good Company
# Streets of Fire
# Nutty Professor 2
# Scent of a Woman
# Darkman
# Sea of Love
# Deliver Us From Eva

Movies I'll buy.
Movies I'd buy if I didn't have them on DVD already.
(C) - Combo HD DVD/DVD

There are several others there I want to see, but I'll just rent those.

[mitchell_pgh]

March
Happy Feet (Warner)
Incubus: Alive at Red Rocks (Sony Music)
March of the Penguins (Warner)
National Geographic: Relentless Enemies (Warner)
The Pursuit of Happyness (Sony)
Warriors of Heaven and Earth (Sony)

April
G.I. Jane (Buena Vista)
Identity (Sony)
King Arthur Director's Cut (Buena Vista)
Volver (Sony)
Dragon's Lair (Digital Leisure)
Dog Day Afternoon (Warner)
Payback: Straight Up - The Director's Cut (Paramount)
A Scanner Darkly (Warner)
The Dirty Dozen (Warner)
Enter the Dragon (Warner)
Deja Vu (Buena Vista)
Failure to Launch (Paramount)
Night at the Museum (Fox)
Planet Earth: The Complete Collection (BBC)
The Queen (Buena Vista)
Secret Window (Sony)
Ultimate Avengers Collection (Lionsgate)
Dreamgirls (DreamWorks)
Happily N'Ever After (Lionsgate Entetainment)

May
Battle of the Bulge (Warner)
Catch and Release (Sony)
Dirty Dancing (Lionsgate)
Donnie Brasco (Sony)
Revenge (Sony)
The Road Warrior (Warner)
The Fountain (Warner)
Stomp the Yard (Sony)
[COLOR="Red"]Apocalypto (Buena Vista)[/quote]
Closer (Sony)
Flags of Our Fathers (DreamWorks)
Freedom Writers (Paramount)
M:I-2 (Paramount)
Mission: Impossible (Paramount)
Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest (Buena Vista)
Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl (Buena Vista)
Primeval (Buena Vista)
Basic Instinct (Lionsgate)
Blood & Chocolate (Sony)
Curse of the Golden Flower (Sony)
Weeds: Season One (Lionsgate)

June
Cars (Buena Vista)
Coming to America (Paramount)
Con Air (Buena Vista)
Crimson Tide (Buena Vista)
Hellboy (Sony)
Meatballs (Sony)
The Rock (Buena Vista)
Trading Places (Paramount)
Ghost Rider (Sony)
Bridge to Terebithia (Buena Vista)
Hustle & Flow (Paramount)

[analogue SPRINKLES]

How many of those are exclusive on HD-DVD? Most of the good ones are on both.

[goMac]

1080p HD-A20 is coming in April for $499:
HD DVD fires back: HD-A20 in April for $499, 70 movies on the way - Engadget HD

[analogue SPRINKLES]

You know all this talk of PIP and content is meaningless the second universal Studio's stops being stubborn and publishes on BR and Disney and Sony remain exclusive to BR.

Seriously.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

You know all this talk of PIP and content is meaningless the second universal Studio's stops being stubborn and publishes on BR and Disney and Sony remain exclusive to BR.

Seriously.

Well, that ain't gonna happen any time soon, considering that Universal hates Sony.

[exca1ibur]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

You know all this talk of PIP and content is meaningless the second universal Studio's stops being stubborn and publishes on BR and Disney and Sony remain exclusive to BR.

Seriously.

Yup, as I said long ago... Unless you have the movie it really doesn't matter WHAT extras your player can do. Getting the movie for the format is more important than any feature either one will ever come up with.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

You know all this talk of PIP and content is meaningless the second universal Studio's stops being stubborn and publishes on BR and Disney and Sony remain exclusive to BR.

All this talk about disk capacity is meaningless the second Disney and Sony stop be stubborn and publish on HD-DVD.

In other words, it's a dumb point, and Universal isn't publishing on BR in the conceivable future.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by goMac 

In other words, it's a dumb point, and Universal isn't publishing on BR in the conceivable future.

It is even more dumb to think people will ever buy more HD-DVD players over BR if they know they will never have a Disney, Pixar or Sony movie on it.

Oh and:
Blu-Ray Outselling HD-DVD 70% to 30%
Digital World Blu-Ray Outselling HD-DVD 70% to 30%

[Adam Betts]

Keep in mind: 100,000 shipped does not mean 100,000 sold

Sony is famous for using shipped number instead of sold. Look at their press release for PS2, PS3, PSP, etc etc and it's always shipped number which is meaningless because it could be sitting on shelf unsold and even returned back to Sony.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by Adam Betts 

Keep in mind: 100,000 shipped does not mean 100,000 sold

Sony is famous for using shipped number instead of sold. Look at their press release for PS2, PS3, PSP, etc etc and it's always shipped number which is meaningless because it could be sitting on shelf unsold and even returned back to Sony.

Fine, lets say 50,000 actually sold then. That is much higher than anything else.

Amazons records SALES so you can check those out as it was the first HD title in the top 10.

[exca1ibur]

Originally Posted by Adam Betts 

Keep in mind: 100,000 shipped does not mean 100,000 sold

Sony is famous for using shipped number instead of sold. Look at their press release for PS2, PS3, PSP, etc etc and it's always shipped number which is meaningless because it could be sitting on shelf unsold and even returned back to Sony.

Companies use this mark because shipped IS sold for them. That is money THEY get from the retail sources on order. Sure its meaningless to us for tracking sold units per customer, but for them it makes more since in tracking because it shows total orders of products from them to market. For units sold to customers, you want to look at retail store numbers, not manufacture sales numbers.

Funny how they get criticized for not having enough product on meet demand, then they STILL get criticized for having enough stock to meet demand. There is always going to be a no win scenario to some.

[hmurchison2001]

Wow you guys are all over the place. Adam is right IMO. I care about Sony having the stock..it's a 12cm plastic disc. I haven't read about any plastic shortages lately they "should" have stock IMO. As a consumer I don't care what Sony gets paid on. When they send out a press release and speak on "shipped" units couldn't care less. What consumers want is more what I'm looking at.

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES

Fine, lets say 50,000 actually sold then. That is much higher than anything else.

Amazons records SALES so you can check those out as it was the first HD title in the top 10.

Top 10 is a "ranking" system which means that a Top 10 ranking is a bit fluid. Top 10 in December is different than Top 10 in February from a numbers standpoint since it is in relation to other discs sold.


Katzenberg from Dreamworks says no winner in War

Originally Posted by Katzenberg

Washington, D.C. (March 29, 2007) -- DreamWorks CEO Jeffrey Katzenberg says the high-def DVD format between Blu-ray and HD-DVD will not have a winner.

Katzenberg, one of Hollywood's most influential executives, said yesterday at a Bank of America conference that only videophiles will buy the new high-def DVD players, according to Variety magazine.
"Blu-Ray and HD DVD are a niche business," Katzenberg said. "They're not going to become the next platform. "I think for the general consumer, there is not a big enough delta between the standard DVD in terms of where it is today and the next generation."

I agree with him. When I walk through stores and I see good movies for $7 I wonder just how they expect to convince these consumers tha that same movie in HD is worth %300 more.

[Eug]

Yeah, despite the fact I have an HD DVD player (and a couple of unopened HD DVDs right now), I've been still slugging through my DVD collection. I have probably about 20 that I haven't watched yet so I'm trying to hold off buying any new discs for the time being. It's hard waiting though.

[exca1ibur]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Yeah, despite the fact I have an HD DVD player (and a couple of unopened HD DVDs right now), I've been still slugging through my DVD collection. I have probably about 20 that I haven't watched yet so I'm trying to hold off buying any new discs for the time being. It's hard waiting though.

Deja vu for me on that one as well. Minus the unopened DVDs. I only have about 8 or so I haven't opened yet.

[mitchell_pgh]

I gave up buying DVDs, for the most part, a few years back. I had something around 200+ and just decided it wasn't worth it especially considering HD was only a few years away. I've been selling them off since 2005.

I think HD will be a nice plateau for a while.

[hmurchison2001]

Originally Posted by mitchell_pgh 

I gave up buying DVDs, for the most part, a few years back. I had something around 200+ and just decided it wasn't worth it especially considering HD was only a few years away. I've been selling them off since 2005.

I think HD will be a nice plateau for a while.

Yeah I never had much of a big DVD collection myself. So the transition hasn't been that painful. Honestly Katzenberg is correct for now. Until consumers have easy (read affordable) access to 50" or larger screens DVD is going to be fine. Once you start hitting 60" and larger you can really see the lack of resolution on DVD.

The HD packaged media industry needs to start hyping Projectors as the new "way" of viewing films. This will cause a larger growth spurt than anything. "HD is made for Projecting" should be the tagline.

[Adam Betts]

Originally Posted by exca1ibur 

Companies use this mark because shipped IS sold for them. That is money THEY get from the retail sources on order. Sure its meaningless to us for tracking sold units per customer, but for them it makes more since in tracking because it shows total orders of products from them to market. For units sold to customers, you want to look at retail store numbers, not manufacture sales numbers.

I think you don't understand how it works for retail. They have to buy huge amount of one product to receive a volume discount. The more they get the cheaper the product will be and profit margin will be higher. It is absolutely meaningless to both consumers and shareholders. You don't realize how many products ultimately ended up being returned back to company because they didn't sell. Do companies tell customers and shareholders about how many products were returned? They won't.

Originally Posted by exca1ibur 

Funny how they get criticized for not having enough product on meet demand, then they STILL get criticized for having enough stock to meet demand. There is always going to be a no win scenario to some.

Huh? I never criticized anyone about that.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by hmurchison2001 

Yeah I never had much of a big DVD collection myself. So the transition hasn't been that painful. Honestly Katzenberg is correct for now. Until consumers have easy (read affordable) access to 50" or larger screens DVD is going to be fine. Once you start hitting 60" and larger you can really see the lack of resolution on DVD.

The HD packaged media industry needs to start hyping Projectors as the new "way" of viewing films. This will cause a larger growth spurt than anything. "HD is made for Projecting" should be the tagline.

I have a 50" TV and I can see a HUGE difference in picture quality between the best DVD and a BR disk or HD TV show.

[exca1ibur]

Originally Posted by Adam Betts 

I think you don't understand how it works for retail. They have to buy huge amount of one product to receive a volume discount. The more they get the cheaper the product will be and profit margin will be higher. It is absolutely meaningless to both consumers and shareholders. You don't realize how many products ultimately ended up being returned back to company because they didn't sell. Do companies tell customers and shareholders about how many products were returned? They won't.

I know how it works in retail. The retail makes an order (that they must pay for) to have in their store. (wholesale) and they mark up to a retail price (what WE pay). The difference is their profit. My point is they pay to get the product from the manufacture. This is the profit that they are getting by reporting a x amount shipped.

I agreed with you to a consumer this means jack. I'm just telling you WHY they will always report products shipped. If you want the numbers on how a product is sold to consumers, when need to start looking for retail chains on product sold, thats all I'm saying.

Moral of the story... if you want to see number of products sold to the consumer looks for stats from a retail source, not the manufacture.

Huh? I never criticized anyone about that.

This wasn't directed at you. Sorry about that. I was just saying this in general as far as the media attacks out there.

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

I have a 50" TV and I can see a HUGE difference in picture quality between the best DVD and a BR disk or HD TV show.

I have a 40" and I can see a huge difference.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

It is even more dumb to think people will ever buy more HD-DVD players over BR if they know they will never have a Disney, Pixar or Sony movie on it.

I don't buy Disney movies. Pixar movies will probably be on iTunes in 720p shortly. And I really could care less about Spiderman.

On the other hand if I bought Bluray I'd be without Battlestar Galactica and Lord of the Rings.

Not everyone is as obsessed with Disney, Pixar, or Sony as you are.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by Eug 

So here are the April -> July HD DVD releases.

Funny how only 4 of those disks are HD/DVD combo disks which before everyone thought was a major advantage for HD-DVD.

Universal is also re-issueing previous combo disks as HD stand alones.

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/sh...d_Reissues/553

Perhaps people didn't like paying $5 extra for a DVD they don't want.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

Funny how only 4 of those disks are HD/DVD combo disks which before everyone thought was a major advantage for HD-DVD.

Universal is also re-issueing previous combo disks as HD stand alones.

Universal Goes Non-Combo with 'Army of Darkness,' ' Unleashed' Reissues | High-Def Digest

Perhaps people didn't like paying $5 extra for a DVD they don't want.

Yeah, $5 is too much more. $2 maybe, but not $5.

Originally Posted by goMac 

I don't buy Disney movies. Pixar movies will probably be on iTunes in 720p shortly. And I really could care less about Spiderman.

On the other hand if I bought Bluray I'd be without Battlestar Galactica and Lord of the Rings.

LOTR will be on both formats.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Warner Unveils 'Matrix' HD DVD Specs:
"The 'Ultimate Collection' in particular is a mammoth enterprise, comprising four double-sided discs containing over 35 hours of bonus materials."

Double sided disks.. how 1998.

So 30 gigs is enough for anything eh

[hmurchison2001]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

Warner Unveils 'Matrix' HD DVD Specs:
"The 'Ultimate Collection' in particular is a mammoth enterprise, comprising four double-sided discs containing over 35 hours of bonus materials."

Double sided disks.. how 1998.

So 30 gigs is enough for anything eh

Why do you mock us with idiocy? The enhanced extras reside on the DVD portion. I'd rather they utilize the 30GB for TrueHD and IME features.

[Eug]

Ratatouille is gonna look pretty damn nice on Blu-ray.



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